Training Camp battles

[The_People1]

Garnet Hathaway could be the surprise to make the team, RW on the 4th line.

Wilson is likely the keeper on D until the return times of Brodie and Smid are determined.

The big decision remains around our goaltending.

 

Hathaway has been good.  The hunger, willingness to hit and compete are there.  I would describe him as Max Reinhart and Ben Hanowski BUT WITH SPEED.  Like, you know, the only thing missing from Reinhart and Hanowski's toolbox.  I'm not saying Hathaway has Paul Byron or Mason Raymond speed but it's adequate for the role he plays, which is to get in there on the forecheck and create pressure.

[s4xon]

The goaltending decision will be an interesting one.  I can't imagine the Flames exposing Ortio to waivers, so they're going to have to send either Hiller or Ramo to Stockton.  I think Hiller is the better goalie, but I expect he'll be the one going to Stockton.

 

I have a hard time believing Kanzig will make the AHL team.  He may wind up in the ECHL. 

 

I'd really like to see Kylington moved to Brandon.  He has a great deal of potential, but his defensive game has a long way to go.  A year of stability on a good team would serve him well.

 

Brandon would be a good idea with Kylington playing some top minutes beside the likes of Provorov.  However, I believe the Flames made that choice based on 3 factors.

 

1. He's already been playing in a men's league.  He has the skills and the speed to do so.

 

2. Ryan Huska is known for development of D men, he was great at the CHL level, and if there is any indication of development through seeing Kulak and Wotherspoon, and even to a lesser extent Sieloff thrive, then Kylington's in good hands.

 

3. Being in Stockton allows the Flames full authority over his training, his schedule, and his development.  They can keep the closest eye on him possible and even throw out a call-up here and there to have him train with the big club.

 

I trust the Flames management. They seem to know what they are doing.

[The_People1]

The goaltending decision will be an interesting one.  I can't imagine the Flames exposing Ortio to waivers, so they're going to have to send either Hiller or Ramo to Stockton.  I think Hiller is the better goalie, but I expect he'll be the one going to Stockton.

 

I have a hard time believing Kanzig will make the AHL team.  He may wind up in the ECHL. 

 

I'd really like to see Kylington moved to Brandon.  He has a great deal of potential, but his defensive game has a long way to go.  A year of stability on a good team would serve him well.

Brandon would be a good idea with Kylington playing some top minutes beside the likes of Provorov.  However, I believe the Flames made that choice based on 3 factors.

 

1. He's already been playing in a men's league.  He has the skills and the speed to do so.

 

2. Ryan Huska is known for development of D men, he was great at the CHL level, and if there is any indication of development through seeing Kulak and Wotherspoon, and even to a lesser extent Sieloff thrive, then Kylington's in good hands.

 

3. Being in Stockton allows the Flames full authority over his training, his schedule, and his development.  They can keep the closest eye on him possible and even throw out a call-up here and there to have him train with the big club.

 

I trust the Flames management. They seem to know what they are doing.

 

Not sure what the CHL import rules are but someone in another thread mentioned that Brandon may be at the limit, so unless Provorov plays in the NHL, there's no room for Brandon to have Kylington on their roster.  Not sure if true or not.

[travel_dude]

Hathaway has been good.  The hunger, willingness to hit and compete are there.  I would describe him as Max Reinhart and Ben Hanowski BUT WITH SPEED.  Like, you know, the only thing missing from Reinhart and Hanowski's toolbox.  I'm not saying Hathaway has Paul Byron or Mason Raymond speed but it's adequate for the role he plays, which is to get in there on the forecheck and create pressure.

 

I have heard him compared to Bouma.  He is fearless, blocks shots with his head, etc...  See link for a little context.

 

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/3/7/give-garnet-hathaway-a-contract

 

Not sure what the CHL import rules are but someone in another thread mentioned that Brandon may be at the limit, so unless Provorov plays in the NHL, there's no room for Brandon to have Kylington on their roster.  Not sure if true or not.

 

Not sure about that, but don't believe there was any issue.

 

That said, I think the best idea is Stockton.  He has already played against men, so I don't think going back to playing teens is the best idea.  His playing time will be determined by a) his play, and Flames development plans.  If he went to the Wheaties, he would be stuck there until the season ended.  That would mean he wouldn't get to be part of the Black Aces.

[The_People1]

I have heard him compared to Bouma.  He is fearless, blocks shots with his head, etc...  See link for a little context.

 

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/3/7/give-garnet-hathaway-a-contract

 

Bouma is a good comparison.

 

A RHS RW made for the bottom 6 role, is something we need.  Bollig - Bouma - Hathaway 4th line would be pretty lethal.

 

The next cuts are going to be the most difficult. 

[cccsberg]

Bouma is a good comparison.

 

A RHS RW made for the bottom 6 role, is something we need.  Bollig - Bouma - Hathaway 4th line would be pretty lethal.

 

The next cuts are going to be the most difficult.

Agree that these next cuts will be brutal. The only thing to avoid it will be a couple of trades for picks or prospects, or injuries. Hopefully not the latter. It will be very interesting to see when and who is chosen.

[cross16]

One thing i would throw out there RE: Kylington is that Flames have not committed that he will play in the AHL this year. They just assigned him to the AHL camp so still very possible that he plays in Brandon this year.

[The_People1]

Agree that these next cuts will be brutal. The only thing to avoid it will be a couple of trades for picks or prospects, or injuries. Hopefully not the latter. It will be very interesting to see when and who is chosen.

 

With 18 forwards remaining, we have to cut down to 14.  The easy thing to do would be to cut Shore, Hathaway, Granlund, and maybe Jooris.  Reality is, they have mostly outplayed Raymond, Byron, and Colborne.  We "should" keep Hathaway and Jooris based on their play.  Which means two of Raymond, Byron, and Colborne should go on waivers.

[MAC331]

Agree that these next cuts will be brutal. The only thing to avoid it will be a couple of trades for picks or prospects, or injuries. Hopefully not the latter. It will be very interesting to see when and who is chosen.

 

How does the injury reserve work in hockey ? sorry have ask. Brodie is on now and we could see Smid and possibly Colborne if his wrist is not 100%. As they come off can the ones who have been filling or the injured player themselves pass through to the AHL ?

[DirtyDeeds]

The goaltending decision will be an interesting one.  I can't imagine the Flames exposing Ortio to waivers, so they're going to have to send either Hiller or Ramo to Stockton.  I think Hiller is the better goalie, but I expect he'll be the one going to Stockton.

 

I have a hard time believing Kanzig will make the AHL team.  He may wind up in the ECHL. 

 

I'd really like to see Kylington moved to Brandon.  He has a great deal of potential, but his defensive game has a long way to go.  A year of stability on a good team would serve him well.

On this situation I find it hard to believe that the Flames would send their best Goaltender through waivers and down to the farm. It boggles my mind the message that would send to the team. That and destroy the motto of earning your spot they have worked so hard to put in place.

 

You keep the best two you can or trade them for better.

 

Well Sorry JH we have to many LW's so you are going to be sent down because you are the best one......

How does the injury reserve work in hockey ? sorry have ask. Brodie is on now and we could see Smid and possibly Colborne if his wrist is not 100%. As they come off can the ones who have been filling or the injured player themselves pass through to the AHL ?

For those on the IR list, when doctors say they are ready, the roster has to open a spot for them.

[travel_dude]

How does the injury reserve work in hockey ? sorry have ask. Brodie is on now and we could see Smid and possibly Colborne if his wrist is not 100%. As they come off can the ones who have been filling or the injured player themselves pass through to the AHL ?

 

If they are waiver eligible, they have to pass through waivers.  Brodie will be on IR for sure.  Smid is difficult to say, as he has been cleared to practice.  The fact that he ended up on IR last season may allow him to be sent to the AHL on a conditioning stint, which could account for him not playing at all in pre-season.

[travel_dude]

With 18 forwards remaining, we have to cut down to 14.  The easy thing to do would be to cut Shore, Hathaway, Granlund, and maybe Jooris.  Reality is, they have mostly outplayed Raymond, Byron, and Colborne.  We "should" keep Hathaway and Jooris based on their play.  Which means two of Raymond, Byron, and Colborne should go on waivers.

 

Colborne upped his value in the last game against the Nucks.  He was a beast along the boards with the puck.  His reach gives him an advantage, and he can twist back and forth and still maintain possession.  He also had some of the better FO% numbers last year.  He doesn't get waived.  He would be gone in a heartbeat.

 

Jooris cemented his spot already.  All he had to do was show glimpses of the 2014/15 player, which he did.

 

Byron may go on a conditioning stint, if allowed.  He was a little off still, but Hartley loves him.

 

Granlund had one of the better camps.  Shore is a RHS that can play center.  That is rare for the Flames, as is a RHS forward.

 

Of all the guys available, Raymond and Byron had the least impact.   If Engelland is on the team, the need for Bollig lessens.  But Hartley loves Bollig.  TBH, I have no idea who should go.  The guys easiest to demote actually deserve to be here.  It's a nice problem to have.

[JTech780]

If we decide to go into the year with 3 goalies, then we have one less roster spot for a forward or defenseman. So if Smid and Brodie start on the IR we will most likely see Nakladal and one of Wotherspoon or Wilson start the year in Calgary leaving one extra spot for a forward.

[travel_dude]

If we decide to go into the year with 3 goalies, then we have one less roster spot for a forward or defenseman. So if Smid and Brodie start on the IR we will most likely see Nakladal and one of Wotherspoon or Wilson start the year in Calgary leaving one extra spot for a forward.

 

If we went with 3 goalies, we could do the following:

 

12 forwards,1 extra (Bollig - no Granlund, Shore, Byron, Raymond or Hathaway)

6 defense, 1 extra (Gio/Hamilton/Wideman/Russell/Engelland/Nakladal and Wilson)

 

or

 

12 forwards, 2 extra (Bollig, Granlund)

6 defense, no extra

 

Funny thing Hartley said today was the battle was not for 6/7 D, it was for 6th.  7th would not be playing.  The other thing to note was that Colborne and Raymond did not skate with the main group of shue-ins.  Raymond did have a green jersey on though.

 

Hathaway has earned a callup at some point, much like Jooris did last year.

Byron has not really impressed to start, so I think he may not make the main team.

I think Colborne makes it; this is classic Bob Hartley tyring to motivate.

Shore or Granlund are going to be kept.  I lean towards Granlund.  Shore will probably make it through waivers if done soon.

[cross16]

If we went with 3 goalies, we could do the following:

 

12 forwards,1 extra (Bollig - no Granlund, Shore, Byron, Raymond or Hathaway)

6 defense, 1 extra (Gio/Hamilton/Wideman/Russell/Engelland/Nakladal and Wilson)

 

or

 

12 forwards, 2 extra (Bollig, Granlund)

6 defense, no extra

 

Funny thing Hartley said today was the battle was not for 6/7 D, it was for 6th.  7th would not be playing.  The other thing to note was that Colborne and Raymond did not skate with the main group of shue-ins.  Raymond did have a green jersey on though.

 

Hathaway has earned a callup at some point, much like Jooris did last year.

Byron has not really impressed to start, so I think he may not make the main team.

I think Colborne makes it; this is classic Bob Hartley tyring to motivate.

Shore or Granlund are going to be kept.  I lean towards Granlund.  Shore will probably make it through waivers if done soon.

 

I'm not so sure I agree. Apprantly there was alot of interest in Shore last season when Florida let him be available in trade and I can't remember if it was Friedman or Wills that were talking about this the other day, but they weren't so sure the interest would have subsided. Shore hasn't had a spectacular camp, he's been solid, but i think if it came down to Shore vs Granlund its a no brainer to send Granlund down. To date, I think Shore's been a bit better and even if they were equal I dont' think it makes sense to expose someone to waviers when you have a player that you don't.

[robrob1974]

I think Shore makes it through and if he doesn't, or fear he won't, trade him because if he doesn't make the team, he isn't worth keeping around. I don't mind if someone picks him up.

So far we possibly have better long term options.

Although, I haven't seen any of the training camp, last year I didn't see much out of him. He could've improved, but from what I've heard is he is not leap frogging anyone else on the team.

[travel_dude]

I'm not so sure I agree. Apprantly there was alot of interest in Shore last season when Florida let him be available in trade and I can't remember if it was Friedman or Wills that were talking about this the other day, but they weren't so sure the interest would have subsided. Shore hasn't had a spectacular camp, he's been solid, but i think if it came down to Shore vs Granlund its a no brainer to send Granlund down. To date, I think Shore's been a bit better and even if they were equal I dont' think it makes sense to expose someone to waviers when you have a player that you don't.

 

TBH, I think the best thing is to keep Shore and Granlund.  That would require waiving Raymond, Bollig and Byron.  I say that because Bollig and Raymond are the least able to adapt to different needs.   Granny and Shore both can play the wing.  Both can be used on PP and PK.  Shore is a RHS which is rare on the team.  Granlund is a true sniper.

 

Bob Hartley was talking to the media and mentioned that they sat as a group and came up with lists of the opening day roster.

Bob had his, and when he looked at everyone else's he asked "What camp were you watching?".  I don't even know what to expect with a statement like that.  Maybe Bollig is playing at a higher level in Bob's eyes.  Maybe he thinks Colborne is playing better than what the other coaches (and several posters here).  Maybe he doesn't think Granlund is the guy to send down.

 

Perhaps the lineup for the AVs is meaningless, but it might also be quite telling:

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler

Bennett - Backlund - Frolik

Ferland - Granlund - Jooris

Byron - Shore - Hathaway

Giordano - Hamilton

Russell - Wideman

Wilson - Engelland

 

Bouma not there.  Colborne not there.  Bollig not there.  Raymond ditto.

[robrob1974]

We need bollig to provide size and toughness against teams that can push us around. Bollig is apparently on a mission to prove he was worth his contract. From what I heard in the Canucks game, he is having a really good camp.

Everyone has to, which is why they won that game even though they iced one NHL quality line in Vancouver. The competition is creating preseason wins because players have to prove themselves.

Some trades need to happen.

Trelivings biggest blunder was giving Raymond so much AND a no move clause. Nobody was breaking down doors to sign Raymond, so I get the payment, but not the length and clause.

I don't see Raymond making it. He needs to play top6.

Granlund can be sent down so I think they'll do that and he will be the first call up.

[cross16]

I don't agree with waiving Bolig either. I get he isn't a poster boy for the analytics community but IMO through the second half of last year and the playoffs he was solid and a necessary player to have. He has also had a solid camp so far so IMO he isn't going anywhere.

 

Raymond I will agree on he has not been very good and ignoring any outside factors probably should be waived.

[robrob1974]

That's exactly what the radio guys said about Bollig. He gets a bad rep from when he first got here, and now he is doing his best to prove his worth. He's the perfect extra forward for games when you need toughness. His best work came in games against teams like LA...

[travel_dude]

I don't agree with waiving Bolig either. I get he isn't a poster boy for the analytics community but IMO through the second half of last year and the playoffs he was solid and a necessary player to have. He has also had a solid camp so far so IMO he isn't going anywhere.

 

Raymond I will agree on he has not been very good and ignoring any outside factors probably should be waived.

 

My point is about his ability to adapt to other needs.  He plays bottom 3 agitator/hard checking forward well.  He doesn't play that well in a speed game, or playing short a player.  He doesn't provide offense (much).

 

Compare that to every other forward still in camp.  As an extra player used when in the playoffs (when things get nasty) or against dirty team, he is fine.  But keeping a guy to play 7 minutes, while the rest of his line plays over 10?  Engelland is likely to be on the ice for 10-15 minutes a night to take care of that stuff.

[MAC331]

We need bollig to provide size and toughness against teams that can push us around. Bollig is apparently on a mission to prove he was worth his contract. From what I heard in the Canucks game, he is having a really good camp.

Everyone has to, which is why they won that game even though they iced one NHL quality line in Vancouver. The competition is creating preseason wins because players have to prove themselves.

Some trades need to happen.

Trelivings biggest blunder was giving Raymond so much AND a no move clause. Nobody was breaking down doors to sign Raymond, so I get the payment, but not the length and clause.

I don't see Raymond making it. He needs to play top6.

Granlund can be sent down so I think they'll do that and he will be the first call up.

When it all shakes out I don't think there will be to many shocking surprises. You go with what you think the best starting roster is and send or attempt to send the rest down. You may lose a player or two but you might not either. Here is where I think we end up.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler

Ferland, Bennett , Frolik

Bouma, Backlund, Jones

Bollig, Stajan, Hathaway

Spares: Colborne and Jooris

Giordano, Hamilton

Russell, Wideman

Wilson, Engelland

Spare: Wotherspoon

Hiller, Ramo

Waivers, Raymond, Byron, Shore and Ortio

Sent down: Granlund

IR: Brodie and Smid

 

[travel_dude]

When it all shakes out I don't think there will be to many shocking surprises. You go with what you think the best starting roster is and send or attempt to send the rest down. You may lose a player or two but you might not either. Here is where I think we end up.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler

Ferland, Bennett , Frolik

Bouma, Backlund, Jones

Bollig, Stajan, Hathaway

Spares: Colborne and Jooris

Giordano, Hamilton

Russell, Wideman

Wilson, Engelland

Spare: Wotherspoon

Hiller, Ramo

Waivers, Raymond, Byron, Shore and Ortio

Sent down: Granlund

IR: Brodie and Smid

 

The top 9 is pretty much a given.  Ferland has shown that the playoffs was not a fluke.  The B-B-J line has shown effectiveness.  The Mony (money) line is either the same or a slight tweak with Ferland playing top line and Hudler/Frolik surrounding Bennett.  

 

The fourth line is really the battle ground.  It could be all skill/speed with Colborne-Stajan-Jooris (spare Hathaway/Bollig), defensive prowess with Granlund-Stajan-Jooris (spare Colborne/Bollig) or a gritty nightmare (to the other teams) with Bollig-Stajan-Hathaway (spare Jooris and Colborne).  I don't think Byron has done enough to stay up, even though the coach loves him.

 

Hartley has basically named his 5 d-men of Gio-Hamilton-Russell-Wideman-Engelland.  The 6th is likely to play the entire time Brodie is down.  The 7th won't get many (if any) games, seeing that Smid is only a short-term absence at most.

 

There are a few guys that have done diddly in the pre-season, but they may get a pass; Bouma, Jones, Byron, and Wideman.  At least to my eyes.  Is it possible that Hathaway actually takes a spot away from Colborne or Jones?

[DirtyDeeds]

I'm not so sure I agree. Apprantly there was alot of interest in Shore last season when Florida let him be available in trade and I can't remember if it was Friedman or Wills that were talking about this the other day, but they weren't so sure the interest would have subsided. Shore hasn't had a spectacular camp, he's been solid, but i think if it came down to Shore vs Granlund its a no brainer to send Granlund down. To date, I think Shore's been a bit better and even if they were equal I dont' think it makes sense to expose someone to waviers when you have a player that you don't.

which begs the question. With the "earned it thinking" does this play into the actual results of what the Flames do?

 

if granlund gets sent down because he does not have to clear waivers but played better .....

I don't agree with waiving Bolig either. I get he isn't a poster boy for the analytics community but IMO through the second half of last year and the playoffs he was solid and a necessary player to have. He has also had a solid camp so far so IMO he isn't going anywhere.

 

Raymond I will agree on he has not been very good and ignoring any outside factors probably should be waived.

been looking for a description like this one......

[OilersAreHighlyFlammable]

which begs the question. With the "earned it thinking" does this play into the actual results of what the Flames do?

 

if granlund gets sent down because he does not have to clear waivers but played better .....

been looking for a description like this one......

Good question DD. If the Flames want to stand by that statement with Granlund, then he should stay up, as I think he has been better than Shore thus far.

I agree Shore would probably be picked up on waivers but if everyone else is playing better than him (He hasn't been bad, just not amazing) there may be no other option.

I personally think Bollig has looked great so far.