Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[rocketdoctor]

Unfortunately you cannot fire the ownership.

 

Also much of this is pure speculation on our part.  We have no idea what is going on behind closed doors.

 

 

 

 

[LouCifer]

Absolutely RD. 

 

I can only guess what's going on, based on my own experiences. As a teacher, there's a saying "all it takes is one bad apple" to alter the dynamic in a classroom, and I'd venture a guess the same holds true for a dressing room / team. In my position, however, you recognize that that "bad apple" is in need of more help and attention in order to get the best out of them. Point is, I've been saying for years now that JH's body language is telling me he's not comfortable or happy here. True or not, it also falls in line with what Snowbear shared with us. He's the talent on the team, there's a lot of pressure that comes with that, and perhaps he's the apple that has soured the group. Then again, it's rarely ever a single entity that is responsible for so much, and for as much as the leadership has done for the team and community, I think a new voice is required in that regard. Earlier in the year, I endorsed Chucky - but given how it's gone for him since the Muzzin incident, I rescind that vote. I don't know if he's fallen "in line" with the current group, or if he's just biding his time waiting for a change in regime, but no matter how you look at it - it was a quiet and ugly year for him. Here's hoping he turns it around, or lands us someone in a trade that can instill some of those bonified leadership qualities this team sorely lacks. Aside from the talent, I like Eichel because he calls it like it is. If he's unhappy, he voices it. Crosby does the same, albeit in a softer way, but still isn't afraid to call out the effort of the team including himself. Chucky tried to put it on himself earlier this season, but it's obvious something happened there. The room is divided.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, lou44291 said:

Absolutely RD. 

 

I can only guess what's going on, based on my own experiences. As a teacher, there's a saying "all it takes is one bad apple" to alter the dynamic in a classroom, and I'd venture a guess the same holds true for a dressing room / team. In my position, however, you recognize that that "bad apple" is in need of more help and attention in order to get the best out of them. Point is, I've been saying for years now that JH's body language is telling me he's not comfortable or happy here. True or not, it also falls in line with what Snowbear shared with us. He's the talent on the team, there's a lot of pressure that comes with that, and perhaps he's the apple that has soured the group. Then again, it's rarely ever a single entity that is responsible for so much, and for as much as the leadership has done for the team and community, I think a new voice is required in that regard. Earlier in the year, I endorsed Chucky - but given how it's gone for him since the Muzzin incident, I rescind that vote. I don't know if he's fallen "in line" with the current group, or if he's just biding his time waiting for a change in regime, but no matter how you look at it - it was a quiet and ugly year for him. Here's hoping he turns it around, or lands us someone in a trade that can instill some of those bonified leadership qualities this team sorely lacks. Aside from the talent, I like Eichel because he calls it like it is. If he's unhappy, he voices it. Crosby does the same, albeit in a softer way, but still isn't afraid to call out the effort of the team including himself. Chucky tried to put it on himself earlier this season, but it's obvious something happened there. The room is divided.

 

What Gaudreau's body language says to me is he hates to lose.

Doesn't like being on a losing team.

He wants to be a 100 point player and suffers when he can't get there.

Every year he gets excited to hear we are bringing in players to complement the top 6, but never actually do.

 

Neal - top 6 that wasn't capable of being one.

Brouwer - top 6 never capable of it.  Was insulting to suggest that every player gets hacked and he would hack Johnny if he was on another team.

Leivo - possibly a top 6 option but almost never used that way.

Bennett - was here all along, but only fit as a C, so that wasn't going to happen.

Simon - not really close to being a full time top 6.

Ritchie - if you want chip and chase fine.  How does that match his skills.

Lindholm - that was the best he's ever had, but hey we need him to play C.

 

Just because we can't surround him with the right players doesn't mean we should trade him.

Bring in Eichel and he would be thrilled.

 

 

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

What Gaudreau's body language says to me is he hates to lose.

Doesn't like being on a losing team.

He wants to be a 100 point player and suffers when he can't get there.

Every year he gets excited to hear we are bringing in players to complement the top 6, but never actually do.

 

Neal - top 6 that wasn't capable of being one.

Brouwer - top 6 never capable of it.  Was insulting to suggest that every player gets hacked and he would hack Johnny if he was on another team.

Leivo - possibly a top 6 option but almost never used that way.

Bennett - was here all along, but only fit as a C, so that wasn't going to happen.

Simon - not really close to being a full time top 6.

Ritchie - if you want chip and chase fine.  How does that match his skills.

Lindholm - that was the best he's ever had, but hey we need him to play C.

 

Just because we can't surround him with the right players doesn't mean we should trade him.

Bring in Eichel and he would be thrilled.

 

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/flames-3-draft-picks-that-refused-to-sign-in-calgary/
 

This is why you bring in an Eichel if there is EVER a chance in a million years. And as of right now, that impossible chance appears possible. 

[jjgallow]

15 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Unfortunately you cannot fire the ownership.

 

Also much of this is pure speculation on our part.  We have no idea what is going on behind closed doors.

 

 

 

 

 

maybe not, but we can rule out competency

[Heartbreaker]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:23 AM, tmac70 said:

Do not dissagree, But the highlighted is what rest on the GM and scouts as their roles. Your upper management creates the vision, culture, work ethic and direction of the organization. GM and scouts pick the players to ice for team selection, it appears that Tre has extremely poor judgement as he has failed in this department as well as the coaching department. Hamilton, Hamonic, Brower, Lucic, Neal, Elliott, Peters.... All had red flags on them. The Hamiltion one is the best one of all. You get a stud DMan that was being shopped becasue he didnt fit in Boston to not be able to fit in here becasue he was introverted, would have rather cultured himself than get Satoshi Nakamoto canned with the boys. You can not tell me you couldn't discover that, same issue with Brower and Neal crap attitudes. It your role to bring forth the right people to fit the organization, he failed

This post is hilarious.  

 

I'm not sure that there was/is an attitude problem with a lot of the players that you mentioned. Nary an ill word has been spoken of Milan Lucic, or Travis Hamonic as pertained to their attitude or dedication. Arguably, Lucic has been the leader of the team this season, and if you wanted to take that further - is one of very few players that deserve to be protected from the expansion draft. I know that he shouldn't be, and that he won't be - but if he wasn't being paid so handsomely, I don't think that any of us would have much to complain about. It can be safely argued that most of those players were not worth the cost of acquisition, but that's a different problem. 

As for Dougie, well, to be honest with you, I'd rather go to a museum than get Satoshi Nakamoto canned with the boys, too. That probably gets old pretty quickly, and he seems to be fitting in pretty well on a very good team these days. Maybe he wasn't the problem after all. 

Love. 

[travel_dude]

Let me see if I can trace the source of the story of the museum?

Would it be Eric Francis?

The stories always sound like sour grapes, not a reason behind the moves.

Taylor Hall a locker room cancer, so they traded him for a D-man.

Yeah, that sounds accurate.

 

Tradng for Hamonic after two years of Hamilton on the roster was preplexing.

Hamilton put up almost equal or better numbers than Gio, but we traded away the player with the most value.

And the hardest to recreate.

Harder to play against?

Dougie was soft and we all complained about it, but I don't think the replacement made sense.

We needed a puck mover.

 

The fault belongs for targeting Hamonic in the first place, not trading Hamilton to improve two areas we lacked.

Hanifin and Lindholm have been two of the best players on our team, though Haifin took a bit longer.

Then again, he was paired with Hamonic.

Not being easy to play against is not a bad strategy, but you need skill.

This year's team lacked skill and we actually watered down the lineup.

We are not a big bruising team, so let's not fool ourselves into thinking we can trade Gaudreau and Monahan to get there.

That's about 5 expensive free agent signings plus Gaudreau and Dube and Backlund for Rantanen and Landeskog.

Poor example, but you need dirty to get there.

[cross16]

John Shannon put the “museum” story out there. It’s never been repeated by anyone else and I’m not sure he even meant it literally. 
 

it’s one of the dumbest narratives in the league. 

[LouCifer]

48 minutes ago, cross16 said:

John Shannon put the “museum” story out there. It’s never been repeated by anyone else and I’m not sure he even meant it literally. 
 

it’s one of the dumbest narratives in the league. 

Unrelated to this topic, but John Shannon really rubs me the wrong way. He’s an absolute buffoon and pretends to know hockey. I honestly don’t know how he’s still employed doing hockey broadcasts. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

John Shannon put the “museum” story out there. It’s never been repeated by anyone else and I’m not sure he even meant it literally. 
 

it’s one of the dumbest narratives in the league. 

 

Thanks for that.

It sounded like a Francis story.

Shannon likes to rub it into Calgary's face a lot.

He came out with the paralax view about the non-goal in the Tampa series.

"Proved" it was the right call with his demo.

One camera angle that you could argue either side.

Strange how some sports networks were looking at it after the non call.

 

Anyway, my point was how these after the fact stories are always dumb.

 

[jjgallow]

23 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

This post is hilarious.  

 

I'm not sure that there was/is an attitude problem with a lot of the players that you mentioned. Nary an ill word has been spoken of Milan Lucic, or Travis Hamonic as pertained to their attitude or dedication. Arguably, Lucic has been the leader of the team this season, and if you wanted to take that further - is one of very few players that deserve to be protected from the expansion draft. I know that he shouldn't be, and that he won't be - but if he wasn't being paid so handsomely, I don't think that any of us would have much to complain about. It can be safely argued that most of those players were not worth the cost of acquisition, but that's a different problem. 

As for Dougie, well, to be honest with you, I'd rather go to a museum than get Satoshi Nakamoto canned with the boys, too. That probably gets old pretty quickly, and he seems to be fitting in pretty well on a very good team these days. Maybe he wasn't the problem after all. 

Love. 

 

It's really nice to see attention turning away from the players as it becomes clear that we have issues that have lasted longer than a lot of the players have.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with our players.

 

I complain a lot       Everyone needs a strength.

 

But I'm almost never directly complaining about the players as much as their utilization and development.      Early on when things started to slide, we complained about attitudes.   Then we traded away one of the best attitudes we have, and also one of our most talented players, who we were absolutely insistent should be in a grunt role.   Well now they're the NHL's best player in the last 10 games.  Not bad for a grunt.

 

I have no issues with Lucic or Hamonic or really almost any of the Flames players.    How they've been put together and organized, however, is the joke of the NHL.

[tmac70]

On 5/8/2021 at 4:36 PM, Heartbreaker said:

This post is hilarious.  

 

I'm not sure that there was/is an attitude problem with a lot of the players that you mentioned. Nary an ill word has been spoken of Milan Lucic, or Travis Hamonic as pertained to their attitude or dedication. Arguably, Lucic has been the leader of the team this season, and if you wanted to take that further - is one of very few players that deserve to be protected from the expansion draft. I know that he shouldn't be, and that he won't be - but if he wasn't being paid so handsomely, I don't think that any of us would have much to complain about. It can be safely argued that most of those players were not worth the cost of acquisition, but that's a different problem. 

As for Dougie, well, to be honest with you, I'd rather go to a museum than get Satoshi Nakamoto canned with the boys, too. That probably gets old pretty quickly, and he seems to be fitting in pretty well on a very good team these days. Maybe he wasn't the problem after all. 

Love. 

Glad it made you laugh. However only players I mentioned had poor attitudes were Brower and Neal. The others were references to head scrathcing deals that transpiered. I agree Hamonic and Lucic are good leaders, but really not a good fit. If we needed better leadership than our captain should have been shipped out years ago. Depite the differnaces in opinion one can agree this club has large dysfuntions at the upper management level, scouting and development.  The Hamilton trade is just mind boogling at best He was by far our best Dman and he gets traded because there was not a fit in the room!!!! So if he wasn't a fit in the room was it the palyer himself or the other players. The first sign of a Satoshi Nakamototy club is the affect the player has on the next club. Hamilton and now Bennett seem to not have issues on other clubs. We all knew that Bennett needed better players around him. Trevling thought he was a player that made other players better,  another large gaff by scouts and managment. Facts are give JG players around him that open ice for him and Poof he would have the same affect as he did years previous. The issue is the guy responsible for the players on the ice. Trevling and company have failed miserable to provide players to accent the palyers we have. 

[pikey7883]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

It's really nice to see attention turning away from the players as it becomes clear that we have issues that have lasted longer than a lot of the players have.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with our players.

 

I complain a lot       Everyone needs a strength.

 

But I'm almost never directly complaining about the players as much as their utilization and development.      Early on when things started to slide, we complained about attitudes.   Then we traded away one of the best attitudes we have, and also one of our most talented players, who we were absolutely insistent should be in a grunt role.   Well now they're the NHL's best player in the last 10 games.  Not bad for a grunt.

 

I have no issues with Lucic or Hamonic or really almost any of the Flames players.    How they've been put together and organized, however, is the joke of the NHL.

I don’t always agree with your burn it to the ground policy, and I don’t want to be lumped in with the majority of flames fans who gave up on Benny and supported that with Backlund advanced stats. 
I always though Benny should be the third line Center with Mang and Dube on his wings. I also really wanted him and Tkachuk to grow together in the beginning the same way they did with Johnny and Money. 
But as a BT supporter I have found myself wondering the long term plan and have been trending in your direction (sigh).

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, pikey7883 said:

I don’t always agree with your burn it to the ground policy, and I don’t want to be lumped in with the majority of flames fans who gave up on Benny and supported that with Backlund advanced stats. 
I always though Benny should be the third line Center with Mang and Dube on his wings. I also really wanted him and Tkachuk to grow together in the beginning the same way they did with Johnny and Money. 
But as a BT supporter I have found myself wondering the long term plan and have been trending in your direction (sigh).

 

 

But seriously I don't always agree with me either, it's all context.   I don't think every NHL team should always be tanking as a strategy.

 

This is a Flames specific thing and IMHO it'll only work with new management.

 

If a team consistently made trades where they favoured small present day sacrifices for small future gains  (and a LOT of teams do),  plus....didn't make...aweful trades...and had a development system...they really wouldn't ever need to rebuild.   But that takes 8-10 years to start paying off and for us a rebuild is the faster route to success imho.    

[cross16]

With the season now over the wait begins on what the Flames will do with Treliving. I'd be surprised if he goes but people have been fired for less so I think it's a possibility and it wouldn't shock me if the Bennett situation puts the owners over the top. For me though, I hate the idea of firing people unless you know who that replacement is and can be do things better. I'm not as optimistic as some that it's going to be easy to upgrade over Treliving.

 

So for me if they go that route its for 1 of 3 options. 

 

1) Hire a POHO (either Mike Gillis or John Davidson) and then let them hire whomever they want. This would be my preferred route because I think the Flames need that person who can work directly with ownership and let the GM just do his job. I think they need that separation and I don't see John Bean being very effective on the hockey side of things. This means more $ though so wouldn't shock me if they don't want to go that route.  

 

Outside of the POHO model there are only 2 names I think worth looking at for GMs

 

2) Eric Tulsky. A bit of a pioneer in the hockey analytics game and IMO a large chunk of the Hurricances success is owed to him. I think if the Flames want to build a sustainable winner without bottoming out they need to do things differently and steal a little bit of the Moneyball approach. Tulsky is as smart as they come and what impresses me most about the Hurricanes is from top to bottom they are built with the same vision in mind. Problem here is he is very likely the GM in waiting so he's going to be hard to pry IMO. 

 

3) Chris McFarland. Avs asst GM who is being given a lot of credit for building the Avs into what looks to be the next powerhouse of the league. The Avs management team has been super impressive from almost all angles these last 4-5 years so I think stealing anyone from there is worth pursing. 

 

Outside of that though I think the options are really unimpressive so if the Flames cannot land one of these 3 options I don't think it makes sense to make a change. I don't see how it would make them better. 

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, cross16 said:

1) Hire a POHO (either Mike Gillis or John Davidson) and then let them hire whomever they want. This would be my preferred route because I think the Flames need that person who can work directly with ownership and let the GM just do his job. I think they need that separation and I don't see John Bean being very effective on the hockey side of things. This means more $ though so wouldn't shock me if they don't want to go that route.  

 

 

This is the only thing I think we can logically do at this point.  It's not that BT is incompetent, just that some things he has done have set us back too much.  Were they his decisions or the direction given by ownership?  Firing the coach made sense, but not hiring him in the first place made even more sense.  Sutter sounds totally like an owners decision, and maybe not the best direction for the team to go in.

 

BT is a decent GM at cap management, signing value deals, etc., but I don't agree with the direction he has gone a number of times.  Whether that was owners, poor pro scouting, or constraints cause by cap or teams willing to trade with, the end results was some poor decisions.  In theory, remove the influence of that group.  I don't know if the POHO has any influence in the development system or player evaluations, but it needs to be looked at.  Bennett and Kylington are examples of how the development has failed the players.  Prospect opportunity may have played a part in why Fox only wanted to play in NY.  There was no real vacancy here when he could have signed.  Ras was just starting with the club and we had Dougie, Hamonic and Stone on RD.  He didn't want to play in the AHL, but there was little chance he would play here in his first season.  Almost zero.

 

Dougie trades, Hamonic trade would be considered win now trades, so you only do that as a GM if you are sure.  I think BT was pushed in that direction.  

[Heartbreaker]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

With the season now over the wait begins on what the Flames will do with Treliving. I'd be surprised if he goes but people have been fired for less so I think it's a possibility and it wouldn't shock me if the Bennett situation puts the owners over the top. For me though, I hate the idea of firing people unless you know who that replacement is and can be do things better. I'm not as optimistic as some that it's going to be easy to upgrade over Treliving.

 

So for me if they go that route its for 1 of 3 options. 

 

1) Hire a POHO (either Mike Gillis or John Davidson) and then let them hire whomever they want. This would be my preferred route because I think the Flames need that person who can work directly with ownership and let the GM just do his job. I think they need that separation and I don't see John Bean being very effective on the hockey side of things. This means more $ though so wouldn't shock me if they don't want to go that route.  

 

Outside of the POHO model there are only 2 names I think worth looking at for GMs

 

2) Eric Tulsky. A bit of a pioneer in the hockey analytics game and IMO a large chunk of the Hurricances success is owed to him. I think if the Flames want to build a sustainable winner without bottoming out they need to do things differently and steal a little bit of the Moneyball approach. Tulsky is as smart as they come and what impresses me most about the Hurricanes is from top to bottom they are built with the same vision in mind. Problem here is he is very likely the GM in waiting so he's going to be hard to pry IMO. 

 

3) Chris McFarland. Avs asst GM who is being given a lot of credit for building the Avs into what looks to be the next powerhouse of the league. The Avs management team has been super impressive from almost all angles these last 4-5 years so I think stealing anyone from there is worth pursing. 

 

Outside of that though I think the options are really unimpressive so if the Flames cannot land one of these 3 options I don't think it makes sense to make a change. I don't see how it would make them better. 

This is a pretty good post, Man, and as always, I appreciate your insight.

I have always been a Treliving supporter, and continue to be because I think he has exactly the right personality type to do the job. I like that he is measured, analytical, and not afraid to speak the truth as he sees it. I think that he is accountable, and I get the impression that he is well respected by his peers. I don't think he's ever been fleeced, although I haven't always liked the moves that he's made (didn't love the Lazar trade, for example). Outside of a few of the free agent signings, the only trade I've ever really had an issue with was the Hamonic trade (not the player, but the cost of acquisition), but I think that he was under a lot of pressure to win now, and the same can be said when he needed to shore up the goaltending situation and made the Elliott trade (remember how good he looked in St. Louis during their playoffs the season before). I think that we're having a different conversation if the Kadri, Zucker, Bishop/Fleury, or Stone trades had worked out. I hate that he could be fired for the Bennett situation. As far as I'm concerned, he did right by the player, and maximized the value for a player that wasn't going to be here next season. I am very angry about the way that the Flames handled Sam Bennett, but I think that there are a lot of reasons why it didn't work out in Calgary, and it's a much bigger issue than Treliving. The fact that he's doing as well as he is in Florida shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody, and it should say a lot about player development and utilization in the Flames system. That goes far beyond the GM, and I think that a POHO model might be the best way out of this mess. 

If he does go, though, I think that your suggestions are good ones. I'll take your word for it. I like the idea of bringing in somebody hungry that has a fresh perspective.

Love.

[sak22]

28 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

This is the only thing I think we can logically do at this point.  It's not that BT is incompetent, just that some things he has done have set us back too much.  Were they his decisions or the direction given by ownership?  Firing the coach made sense, but not hiring him in the first place made even more sense.  Sutter sounds totally like an owners decision, and maybe not the best direction for the team to go in.

 

BT is a decent GM at cap management, signing value deals, etc., but I don't agree with the direction he has gone a number of times.  Whether that was owners, poor pro scouting, or constraints cause by cap or teams willing to trade with, the end results was some poor decisions.  In theory, remove the influence of that group.  I don't know if the POHO has any influence in the development system or player evaluations, but it needs to be looked at.  Bennett and Kylington are examples of how the development has failed the players.  Prospect opportunity may have played a part in why Fox only wanted to play in NY.  There was no real vacancy here when he could have signed.  Ras was just starting with the club and we had Dougie, Hamonic and Stone on RD.  He didn't want to play in the AHL, but there was little chance he would play here in his first season.  Almost zero.

 

Dougie trades, Hamonic trade would be considered win now trades, so you only do that as a GM if you are sure.  I think BT was pushed in that direction.  

Those trades were made when we had a POHO in Burke, that said Burke was also an impatient man and probably not the right choice the organization needed for that time, whereas a guy like JD is more patient hence why he is now available.

[Heartbreaker]

5 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Those trades were made when we had a POHO in Burke, that said Burke was also an impatient man and probably not the right choice the organization needed for that time, whereas a guy like JD is more patient hence why he is now available.

 

I agree about Burke. I think that the Flames are all about the win now... and that scares the chit outta me. See the recent hiring of Darryl Sutter.

Love.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Those trades were made when we had a POHO in Burke, that said Burke was also an impatient man and probably not the right choice the organization needed for that time, whereas a guy like JD is more patient hence why he is now available.

 

No doubt.  Burke spanned the Feaster years and really had influence during BT first two years.  Smith, Kanzig and Bollig come to mind.  At that time, I think there was zero control by the GM and all about the owners influence with Burke. 

 

I'm just thinking that we need a better voice than Maloney.  If BT was forced to sign Sutter, then that was a mistake.  Not that Sutter is a bad coach, just that his success are in the past.  And it signals no willingness to revamp the team; it's a quick re-tool at most.  

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

16 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

I agree about Burke. I think that the Flames are all about the win now... and that scares the chit outta me. See the recent hiring of Darryl Sutter.

Love.

Has there ever been any official proclamation from ownership on what their expectations are and how they plan on achieving them?  Sure they're not going to bluntly say the tank word but has there been anything said by the owners to at least get an idea where their mindset is?  Is a true rebuild a no-go or are even they getting tired of mediocracy?

[cross16]

30 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Has there ever been any official proclamation from ownership on what their expectations are and how they plan on achieving them?  Sure they're not going to bluntly say the tank word but has there been anything said by the owners to at least get an idea where their mindset is?  Is a true rebuild a no-go or are even they getting tired of mediocracy?

 

No and it's not likely to ever happen as it's not the operating model of the Flames ownership structure, they are a group that operates behind the scenes. Been that way since Day 1 and from my understanding is by design. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

Those trades were made when we had a POHO in Burke, that said Burke was also an impatient man and probably not the right choice the organization needed for that time, whereas a guy like JD is more patient hence why he is now available.

 

I think right or wrong choice is a debatable point, and likely in the eye of the beholder, but for me it clearly shows what the organization (and more directly the owners) mindset towards the club is. 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

With the season now over the wait begins on what the Flames will do with Treliving. I'd be surprised if he goes but people have been fired for less so I think it's a possibility and it wouldn't shock me if the Bennett situation puts the owners over the top. For me though, I hate the idea of firing people unless you know who that replacement is and can be do things better. I'm not as optimistic as some that it's going to be easy to upgrade over Treliving.

 

So for me if they go that route its for 1 of 3 options. 

 

1) Hire a POHO (either Mike Gillis or John Davidson) and then let them hire whomever they want. This would be my preferred route because I think the Flames need that person who can work directly with ownership and let the GM just do his job. I think they need that separation and I don't see John Bean being very effective on the hockey side of things. This means more $ though so wouldn't shock me if they don't want to go that route.  

 

Outside of the POHO model there are only 2 names I think worth looking at for GMs

 

2) Eric Tulsky. A bit of a pioneer in the hockey analytics game and IMO a large chunk of the Hurricances success is owed to him. I think if the Flames want to build a sustainable winner without bottoming out they need to do things differently and steal a little bit of the Moneyball approach. Tulsky is as smart as they come and what impresses me most about the Hurricanes is from top to bottom they are built with the same vision in mind. Problem here is he is very likely the GM in waiting so he's going to be hard to pry IMO. 

 

3) Chris McFarland. Avs asst GM who is being given a lot of credit for building the Avs into what looks to be the next powerhouse of the league. The Avs management team has been super impressive from almost all angles these last 4-5 years so I think stealing anyone from there is worth pursing. 

 

Outside of that though I think the options are really unimpressive so if the Flames cannot land one of these 3 options I don't think it makes sense to make a change. I don't see how it would make them better. 

 

Can we promote BT to POHO and Conroy to GM?  

[cross16]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Can we promote BT to POHO and Conroy to GM?  

 

I mean you could but my question would be why?

 

What's going to change and what are you hoping to get out of that move?