Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[Mike_Oxlong]

What's the perfect follow-up to signing Jagr? Signing Tanner Glass. One step forward, one step back! 

[The_People1]

44 minutes ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

What's the perfect follow-up to signing Jagr? Signing Tanner Glass. One step forward, one step back! 

 

Next is trading Brouwer, a giant leap forward for mankind.

[rickross]

31 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Next is trading Brouwer, a giant leap forward for mankind.

I still think Vegas could be a landing spot for Brouwer. They passed on him in the expansion draft but their GM is familiar with him, leadership and experience can be enticing for a young team. Ok...I'll put the pipe down now lol

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

What's the perfect follow-up to signing Jagr? Signing Tanner Glass. One step forward, one step back! 

I know its a beaten to death conversation , but when we lost Engelland we lost a very important element. hes not likely an every night player but there are teams who's MO is to beat us to death.. we need him cuz nobody else provides it

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

What's the perfect follow-up to signing Jagr? Signing Tanner Glass. One step forward, one step back! 

I don't think BT is done dealing. Not sure I would want to play poker with him (seems to always come out on top). Even his bluffs (Brouwer) could win him a round.

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I know its a beaten to death conversation , but when we lost Engelland we lost a very important element. hes not likely an every night player but there are teams who's MO is to beat us to death.. we need him cuz nobody else provides it

 

And every shift that Glass is on the ice is a potential charging penalty or interference or slashing.  What are you going to do, have him play alternating shift on the top line so that nobody will take a run at Johnny?  Or have him go out after the fact and take an instigator penalty and cost us?

 

I would rather that someone tell Brouwer that his role is to take exception to every hit against the Flames and pound the crap out of anyone that crosses the line.  That or he sits.  He was supposed to offer grit.

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

And every shift that Glass is on the ice is a potential charging penalty or interference or slashing.  What are you going to do, have him play alternating shift on the top line so that nobody will take a run at Johnny?  Or have him go out after the fact and take an instigator penalty and cost us?

 

I would rather that someone tell Brouwer that his role is to take exception to every hit against the Flames and pound the crap out of anyone that crosses the line.  That or he sits.  He was supposed to offer grit.

Oh agreed.. if Brouwer would actually do it.. that's why I think the trade rumor has some weight . Sending him back to St Louis and eat some salary makes a whole lot of sense.

I will say this about Glass, for who he is. he had a really strong camp.. hits , fights when necessary and was not really a liability when he was on the ice. Brought energy like he is supposed. I have no problem with him  

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

Oh agreed.. if Brouwer would actually do it.. that's why I think the trade rumor has some weight . Sending him back to St Louis and eat some salary makes a whole lot of sense.

I will say this about Glass, for who he is. he had a really strong camp.. hits , fights when necessary and was not really a liability when he was on the ice. Brought energy like he is supposed. I have no problem with him  

 

And that's what I don't consider to be a great thing.  A vet doesn't lose his spot for a bad camp.  A rookie doesn't win a job for a good camp.  A PTO has a good camp against rookies and tryouts and does good?  Sign him up?  It easy to impress for a short stint.  That is why some players look good in camp.  Limited results.  As a result, we get stuck with him, while we have a Lomberg with as much moxy and dying to play for us.  Or Poirier who would do as much damage as Glass and maybe actually score a goal.  You tell him you just want the grit and he can do that.  Any AHL player would kill for that.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

I still think Vegas could be a landing spot for Brouwer. They passed on him in the expansion draft but their GM is familiar with him, leadership and experience can be enticing for a young team. Ok...I'll put the pipe down now lol

 

Will anyone waive NTC to go to Vegas now?

[cccsberg]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

And that's what I don't consider to be a great thing.  A vet doesn't lose his spot for a bad camp.  A rookie doesn't win a job for a good camp.  A PTO has a good camp against rookies and tryouts and does good?  Sign him up?  It easy to impress for a short stint.  That is why some players look good in camp.  Limited results.  As a result, we get stuck with him, while we have a Lomberg with as much moxy and dying to play for us.  Or Poirier who would do as much damage as Glass and maybe actually score a goal.  You tell him you just want the grit and he can do that.  Any AHL player would kill for that.

Agree with the hypocrisy of it all.  Disappointing how it has all turned out.  If injuries are the only way to give the prospects a real opportunity, then so be it.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, cccsberg said:

Agree with the hypocrisy of it all.  Disappointing how it has all turned out.  If injuries are the only way to give the prospects a real opportunity, then so be it.

 

Playing favorites. A bane of all teams.

[conundrumed]

At least we still have Glass, Lazar and Familton.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

At least we still have Glass, Lazar and Familton.

 

And for the time being, Hathaway.  I would prefer the Little Ball of Hate over Hamilton.  Just me, I guess.

[The_Tribal Chief]

I'd prefer both then I need a Walker Jager

[conundrumed]

13 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

I'd prefer both then I need a Walker Jager

Don't think I wanna even approach what that might encompass, lol. Bottle of each? Johnny red or black?

 

Is Glass' a two way deal?

[The_Tribal Chief]

Well Jager is old enough to need a walker soonish lol were suppose to be getting faster not slower

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Well Jager is old enough to need a walker soonish lol were suppose to be getting faster not slower

I liked my idea better, lol.

Speed, for me, is more in transitioning than just being fast skaters.

But I have to admit, for me, if this is what we're doing out of camp, I have to worry about what we'll do with Jagr.

[JTech780]

I really like a lot of things BT and he has made some mistakes, every GM has made plenty of mistakes. I talked about this in another thread, but my biggest issue thus far with BT is that he hasn't assembled a team that can have a clear defined identity. In a league where every team seems to be getting faster, we seem to keep getting slower. 

 

I think I a lot of it is luck of the draw at the draft. Monahan was the right pick where we were drafting and he is a very good player, but he isn't quick by any stretch of the imagination, he does have size but he doesn't use it in the same way a Getzlaf uses his similar size. Tkachuk again was the right pick for where were drafting, but again his skating ability comes in below average as it lacks any kind of dynamic quality. He has ok size and he isn't afraid to use it which is great, but I am not sure how many people he is going to over power in the NHL. Bennett again was the right pick at our spot, and while he is a better skater than the other two I don't think he is in the upper echelon of NHL skaters. Like Tkachuk he ok size and isn't afraid to use it, but at the same time his size isn't an asset at the center ice position. 

 

Then there are guys like Gaudreau who have tons of skill and he is super quick, but I wouldn't say he has top end speed, and I don't need to go into detail about his size.

 

I really feel like our top end forwards have the required skill, but I am not sure the have the skating ability or size to really optimize the late skill, and that is biggest concern and gripe. Not really all BT's fault, but ultimately it could be is downfall.

[Fins&FIre15]

Those are some good points and I tend to agree.

 

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I am ready to move on from our current core.

 

I think brodie will continue to trend downwards, gio is only getting older, and  I still have concerns about hamiltons compete and decision making. For forwards, I believe Johnny would do well in the east but has shown that he CAN be shut down, Monahan is a great two way player, but not dynamic, and I was hoping tkachuk would be able to pull a draisaitle (who was a worse skater than tkachuk at 19) and really gain some movement in his stride, but he hasn't, and I'm sure its going to limit his offensive potential. I think we saw backlunds ceiling last year and it would be smart to sell high due to his contract status. He's one of my favorite flames, and I never wanted him to be traded, but I believe now's the time.

 

I may be too impatient but It just doesn't seem like this core is built to win. IMO we need a shake up.

 

 

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I really like a lot of things BT and he has made some mistakes, every GM has made plenty of mistakes. I talked about this in another thread, but my biggest issue thus far with BT is that he hasn't assembled a team that can have a clear defined identity. In a league where every team seems to be getting faster, we seem to keep getting slower. 

 

I think I a lot of it is luck of the draw at the draft. Monahan was the right pick where we were drafting and he is a very good player, but he isn't quick by any stretch of the imagination, he does have size but he doesn't use it in the same way a Getzlaf uses his similar size. Tkachuk again was the right pick for where were drafting, but again his skating ability comes in below average as it lacks any kind of dynamic quality. He has ok size and he isn't afraid to use it which is great, but I am not sure how many people he is going to over power in the NHL. Bennett again was the right pick at our spot, and while he is a better skater than the other two I don't think he is in the upper echelon of NHL skaters. Like Tkachuk he ok size and isn't afraid to use it, but at the same time his size isn't an asset at the center ice position. 

 

Then there are guys like Gaudreau who have tons of skill and he is super quick, but I wouldn't say he has top end speed, and I don't need to go into detail about his size.

 

I really feel like our top end forwards have the required skill, but I am not sure the have the skating ability or size to really optimize the late skill, and that is biggest concern and gripe. Not really all BT's fault, but ultimately it could be is downfall.

I don't think you build a team all with speed or all with skill, you very much need a good blend. I have said this before on Monahan, he is one of the most fundamentally sound players I have seen in a while. He is where he needs to be on the ice because he knows he isn't the fastest. I will take a player with smarts over a pure speed player all day long. Tkachuk is 19 and all you have to do is look at his Dad and know he will had some beef and when he does watch out. Gaudreau is what he is and that is very good. Bennett I think has not been provided the best situations to succeed and hopefully that changes this season. Coming on will be Jankowski who I think is another fundamentally sound player but not unlike Monahan should have some speed playing along side him. You mention identity and this may just be my feeling but as the young core evolves with GG's systems we will see their own identity evolve.

[MAC331]

Just now, Fins&FIre15 said:

Those are some good points and I tend to agree.

 

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I am ready to move on from our current core.

 

I think brodie will continue to trend downwards, gio is only getting older, and  I still have concerns about hamiltons compete and decision making. For forwards, I believe Johnny would do well in the east but has shown that he CAN be shut down, Monahan is a great two way player, but not dynamic, and I was hoping tkachuk would be able to pull a draisaitle (who was a worse skater than tkachuk at 19) and really gain some movement in his stride, but he hasn't, and I'm sure its going to limit his offensive potential. I think we saw backlunds ceiling last year and it would be smart to sell high due to his contract status. He's one of my favorite flames, and I never wanted him to be traded, but I believe now's the time.

 

I may be too impatient but It just doesn't seem like this core is built to win. IMO we need a shake up.

 

 

Good Lord man, talk about impatient. This team has only just begun and you want to start selling off the parts ? What is wrong with keeping a Backlund at his ceiling when it is an ingredient you need in order to have a winning team ? Good or great players need experience before they ever take off with reaching their true potential. Do you want to be constantly in rebuilding mode ?

[cross16]

I agree, and have for a while, with the general premise that the Flames are not fast enough. I don't quite agree with every player JTech mentions but specifically I do agree with Monahan and Tkachuk and when 2 of your core players are not exactly fleet of foot it is tough. Yes you can argue that Treliving should be complimenting them with more speed but that is not easy, and it's expensive, to do that. So I agree that it's tough to completely lay blame on Treliving because I do believe that the Flames drafted well when they had their lottery picks.

 

What is well discussed is what supplementing of the roster with players that really lack speed when it was already apparent the Flames had an issue. It's the reason why I was so against signing or re signing the likes of Brouwer, Stone, Glass, Stajan even jagr to a certain degree. Flames need to get faster and those moves continued to make them slower. 

 

Monahan should pull John Tavares aside in the offseason and train with him. Tavares use to have slower feet and he turned it around and while he isn't fast he's plenty of fast enough. 

[MAC331]

Just now, cross16 said:

I agree, and have for a while, with the general premise that the Flames are not fast enough. I don't quite agree with every player JTech mentions but specifically I do agree with Monahan and Tkachuk and when 2 of your core players are not exactly fleet of foot it is tough. Yes you can argue that Treliving should be complimenting them with more speed but that is not easy, and it's expensive, to do that. So I agree that it's tough to completely lay blame on Treliving because I do believe that the Flames drafted well when they had their lottery picks.

 

What is well discussed is what supplementing of the roster with players that really lack speed when it was already apparent the Flames had an issue. It's the reason why I was so against signing or re signing the likes of Brouwer, Stone, Glass, Stajan even jagr to a certain degree. Flames need to get faster and those moves continued to make them slower. 

For lack of a better term I am calling this season "The Mentorship" season. I think we can all agree with the need for added speed and that may be available next season. Our core needs to absorb all they can from the likes of Jagr, Backlund, Versteeg and yes even Brouwer. Everyone of these players are likely gone by next season maybe with the exception of Backlund. Incoming could be the speed with Foo, Poirier, Shinkaruk and Mangiapane to name a few. Dube is another one.

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

For lack of a better term I am calling this season "The Mentorship" season. I think we can all agree with the need for added speed and that may be available next season. Our core needs to absorb all they can from the likes of Jagr, Backlund, Versteeg and yes even Brouwer. Everyone of these players are likely gone by next season maybe with the exception of Backlund. Incoming could be the speed with Foo, Poirier, Shinkaruk and Mangiapane to name a few. Dube is another one.

 

And you may be right and I won't disagree. All I will say is that this is problematic when you consider the assets the Flames spent in the off season. 

[redfire11]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I agree, and have for a while, with the general premise that the Flames are not fast enough.

With virtually 0 trade bait and No draft picks who do you feel (in our pipeline) could provide the speed we are lacking?.

 

Jankowski: I have never heard anyone praising his speed

Poirier: This was to be his greatest asset but I havn't seen it.

Foo: Speed never came to mind watching him play