Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[The_People1]

13 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

No. Axed it because teams got tired of having to send compensation for guys who had been fired by their last club. 

 

Still need permission, but no more compensation granted. 

 

I thought the Canucks got a second round pick for letting Tortorella go to the Blue Jackets?

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I thought the Canucks got a second round pick for letting Tortorella go to the Blue Jackets?

 

They did. That was one of the last ones the league allowed before they axed it. Bruins got a 2nd for Peter Chiarelli too. 

 

Actually worked out for the Flames because they did not owe compensation to the Nucks for hiring Gulutzan. 

[JTech780]

If this contract doesn't get done soon, you have to wonder if Buffalo becomes a factor. It sounds like they were trying to go after Chyka the Coyotes GM, but Arizona wouldn't give them permission to talk to him.

 

I think Buffalo will be aggressive in going after guys they want and Pegula won't be afraid to dish out the big bucks.

 

When does Treliving's contract officially end. I know for players it the last day of June/July 1st, but I think it's the beginning of June for front office employees. The timing could be interesting as teams will want to have everything in place come the two drafts.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

If this contract doesn't get done soon, you have to wonder if Buffalo becomes a factor. It sounds like they were trying to go after Chyka the Coyotes GM, but Arizona wouldn't give them permission to talk to him.

 

I think Buffalo will be aggressive in going after guys they want and Pegula won't be afraid to dish out the big bucks.

 

When does Treliving's contract officially end. I know for players it the last day of June/July 1st, but I think it's the beginning of June for front office employees. The timing could be interesting as teams will want to have everything in place come the two drafts.

That's my only fear .. that the Flames make too low of an initial offer and it turns into an outrageous offer from Pegula that we wont match..  but i also think BT has done too much to not want to see it through.. so long as the offer isnt insulting , we should have no issues.  5 years I'm sure is a big request for BT

[tmac70]

When you analyze what he has done has it made our prospect pool any better, not really. His draft years really each 1st Rounder a blind squirrel could have done. Hamilton trade was really his shining moment. Our prospect pool is no better than what has happened up north. Each of our 1st rounders made the team, there is no top talent in the minors, who bears that responsibility. How is it other clubs can find gems for replacements in their roster in the late stages of the draft but we simply struggle every year to never find one?

 

I agree he has not done anything to not warrant a consideration but he has not  done anything  that would place him in the GM of the year nomination either.

[MAC331]

21 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

When you analyze what he has done has it made our prospect pool any better, not really. His draft years really each 1st Rounder a blind squirrel could have done. Hamilton trade was really his shining moment. Our prospect pool is no better than what has happened up north. Each of our 1st rounders made the team, there is no top talent in the minors, who bears that responsibility. How is it other clubs can find gems for replacements in their roster in the late stages of the draft but we simply struggle every year to never find one?

 

I agree he has not done anything to not warrant a consideration but he has not  done anything  that would place him in the GM of the year nomination either.

I think many experts (not here) would argue with you about the talent within our pipeline. Drafting is not by any means all on the GM as there is a great dependency on your scouting and talent assessment people. Brodie is a good example of a player that can evolve for you from a later round and we have more than a few defensemen brewing in the minors. We have some well thought of Goalies within the ranks just a year or two away. As far as our forwards I think we are still finding out what they can do and more importantly where they may fit in and when. Jankowski is the most obvious one that should be ready to step in next season.

[cross16]

50 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

When you analyze what he has done has it made our prospect pool any better, not really. His draft years really each 1st Rounder a blind squirrel could have done. Hamilton trade was really his shining moment. Our prospect pool is no better than what has happened up north. Each of our 1st rounders made the team, there is no top talent in the minors, who bears that responsibility. How is it other clubs can find gems for replacements in their roster in the late stages of the draft but we simply struggle every year to never find one?

 

I agree he has not done anything to not warrant a consideration but he has not  done anything  that would place him in the GM of the year nomination either.

 

So i guess we are going to ignore the fact that the Flames had the 2nd most prospects at the World Juniors this year? 

 

He's been through 2 drafts on his own (i'm not going to count 2014 as he was here for 2 months prior to it) and I think if you look at the 2015-2016 drafts the early returns are very promising. Criticizing someone because their draft picks haven't made it in 2 years is about as short sighted as you can be. Draft picks take time. 

 

I also find it interesting you are suggesting that the flames can't find late round gems but ignore the fact that their top offensive player is a 4th round pick, top Dman is an undrafted free agent, 3rd best Dman is a 4 rounder, Ferland was a 5th, Bouma a 3rd rounder, I'd love to see how many clubs you think have done better than that in the late rounds of the draft. Sure there are a few but let's not act likes its easy to find impactfull players late in drafts, it isn't' 

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I also find it interesting you are suggesting that the flames can't find late round gems but ignore the fact that their top offensive player is a 4th round pick, top Dman is an undrafted free agent, 3rd best Dman is a 4 rounder, Ferland was a 5th, Bouma a 3rd rounder, I'd love to see how many clubs you think have done better than that in the late rounds of the draft. Sure there are a few but let's not act likes its easy to find impactfull players late in drafts, it isn't' 

 

I would add that we picked up some possible gems this past year, ones that are not certain to be NHL players, but have at least lit up their respective leagues;  Tuulola, Phillips, and Falkovsky.  In 2015 the same could be said for Mangiapane and even Karnaukhov.  

[JTech780]

http://www.tsn.ca/an-executive-shopping-list-for-the-sabres-1.737593

 

Gary Lawless has Treliving on the list of possible GM's for the Sabres. 

 

The longer this goes on without a contract renewal the more worried I get. For such a no brainer of a decision, it sure is taking a while to get this done, in the sense it should have been done a while ago.

 

I wonder if they feel that they have a replacement in Conroy and if Treliving doesn't want to come back at their price they will just go with Conroy.

 

[cross16]

so a nasty rumor is floating around that part of the reason for the delay is Treliving is trying to get a clause in his contract that stops King from meddling in hockey ops. Apparently King insists on being informed of every deal BEFORE it is made and while he won't necessarily block it he must give it the go ahead before it can be done. There is a challenge logistically there obviously because its not like King is in the office all the time and apparently Treliving is very frustrated by that set up. 

 

Irregardless of whether or not this is true or not, this is now about 5 years running where rumors of meddling will not go away. While I don't believe everything I read I also believe in where there is smoke there is fire, so the fact this won't go away is quite frustrating. As i've put in numerous posts I am not a Ken King fan and I think he should have been let go years ago but the more this drags on the more I am left with the feeling that this organization will never see the type of success we want as long as King is around. If the Flames lose Treliving over Ken King, which is IMO the only reason he won't be here and I felt that way before I heard this, I will be 1 unhappy camper. So anyone looking for season tickets feel free to inquire.

[JTech780]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

so a nasty rumor is floating around that part of the reason for the delay is Treliving is trying to get a clause in his contract that stops King from meddling in hockey ops. Apparently King insists on being informed of every deal BEFORE it is made and while he won't necessarily block it he must give it the go ahead before it can be done. There is a challenge logistically there obviously because its not like King is in the office all the time and apparently Treliving is very frustrated by that set up. 

 

Irregardless of whether or not this is true or not, this is now about 5 years running where rumors of meddling will not go away. While I don't believe everything I read I also believe in where there is smoke there is fire, so the fact this won't go away is quite frustrating. As i've put in numerous posts I am not a Ken King fan and I think he should have been let go years ago but the more this drags on the more I am left with the feeling that this organization will never see the type of success we want as long as King is around. If the Flames lose Treliving over Ken King, which is IMO the only reason he won't be here and I felt that way before I heard this, I will be 1 unhappy camper. So anyone looking for season tickets feel free to inquire.

 

If that is true, I doubt Buffalo would be all that enticing as Pegula strikes me as the type of owner who likes to meddle.

 

What does Burke do if King has to oversee every decision? I thought Burke was brought in to deal with the hockey side so that King could screw up , I mean deal with the arena and business side of things.

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

so a nasty rumor is floating around that part of the reason for the delay is Treliving is trying to get a clause in his contract that stops King from meddling in hockey ops. Apparently King insists on being informed of every deal BEFORE it is made and while he won't necessarily block it he must give it the go ahead before it can be done. There is a challenge logistically there obviously because its not like King is in the office all the time and apparently Treliving is very frustrated by that set up. 

 

Irregardless of whether or not this is true or not, this is now about 5 years running where rumors of meddling will not go away. While I don't believe everything I read I also believe in where there is smoke there is fire, so the fact this won't go away is quite frustrating. As i've put in numerous posts I am not a Ken King fan and I think he should have been let go years ago but the more this drags on the more I am left with the feeling that this organization will never see the type of success we want as long as King is around. If the Flames lose Treliving over Ken King, which is IMO the only reason he won't be here and I felt that way before I heard this, I will be 1 unhappy camper. So anyone looking for season tickets feel free to inquire.

 

But if you want to apply for the vacant GM position after BT leaves, you have my vote of confidence.  Which has me thinking, has any fan ever been hired as a GM in professional sports?

[AlbertaBoy12]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

But if you want to apply for the vacant GM position after BT leaves, you have my vote of confidence.  Which has me thinking, has any fan ever been hired as a GM in professional sports?

Im sure fans have tried to work their way into sports, thats why you see guys like jay feaster who start off in lesser roles work their way into the hockey market. I dont think it would be doable for a fan to just step in as GM and I dont think theres a way for anyone to try.

[cross16]

16 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

But if you want to apply for the vacant GM position after BT leaves, you have my vote of confidence.  Which has me thinking, has any fan ever been hired as a GM in professional sports?

Appreciate it. We should start a campaign. Needs to be a first time for everything

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Appreciate it. We should start a campaign. Needs to be a first time for everything

Cross for GM? Make the flames great again.

[phoenix66]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

so a nasty rumor is floating around that part of the reason for the delay is Treliving is trying to get a clause in his contract that stops King from meddling in hockey ops. Apparently King insists on being informed of every deal BEFORE it is made and while he won't necessarily block it he must give it the go ahead before it can be done. There is a challenge logistically there obviously because its not like King is in the office all the time and apparently Treliving is very frustrated by that set up. 

 

Irregardless of whether or not this is true or not, this is now about 5 years running where rumors of meddling will not go away. While I don't believe everything I read I also believe in where there is smoke there is fire, so the fact this won't go away is quite frustrating. As i've put in numerous posts I am not a Ken King fan and I think he should have been let go years ago but the more this drags on the more I am left with the feeling that this organization will never see the type of success we want as long as King is around. If the Flames lose Treliving over Ken King, which is IMO the only reason he won't be here and I felt that way before I heard this, I will be 1 unhappy camper. So anyone looking for season tickets feel free to inquire.

LIke Jtech said, i have a very hard time believing this rumor.. for the simple fact that Brian Burke would have quit long ago.

If i recall Burke has a "open" contract , meaning either side can terminate it at any time.. If BB's job is presumably to run the Hockey Opps, theres no way a guy like him would accept King meddling in something as trivial as trades.

Now, I can maybe see if they wanted to package Johnny out of Calgary they may have to get somebodys blessing (marketing , jersey sales and all that would be affected) BB may have to sell that to the owners , but not everyday trades.

 

That being said BT's new contract is BB's job.. and he reports to King.. so I could accept that worst case scenario they dont support giving him a contract BB likely would recommend..or having to sign off on it.

But that's about it;. Burke was brought in to allow King to have nothing to do with that stuff... If for SOME reason BT isn't resigned, i almost guarantee Burke goes with him, and you'll have your answer

[Cowtownguy]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

But if you want to apply for the vacant GM position after BT leaves, you have my vote of confidence.  Which has me thinking, has any fan ever been hired as a GM in professional sports?

Apparently, there are professional sports teams (soccer) with fan ownership and directorship. Fans vote virtually on trades, salaries, etc. I say that all of us on the board should be the next collective general manager of the Flames. That might make for a crankier board, but it sure would be interesting. Not exactly sure how a group of people initiate a trade. 

[tmac70]

So if BT is removed and it begining to seem that is a distint possibilty, does that mean Gulitzan is done as well, he was Trevlings guy? Burke has ties to the boys in LA, possible changing of the guard 

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So if BT is removed and it begining to seem that is a distint possibilty, does that mean Gulitzan is done as well, he was Trevlings guy? Burke has ties to the boys in LA, possible changing of the guard 

 

I really hope not, moving on from Treliving and Gulutzan would set this team back by a year or two. Going to Lombardi and Sutter would but this team in full reverse. 

[cccsberg]

7 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I really hope not, moving on from Treliving and Gulutzan would set this team back by a year or two. Going to Lombardi and Sutter would but this team in full reverse. 

That's an interesting scenario.  Another would be to just elevate either Conroy or our ex-Phoenix GM.  Bringing in the LA guys would strike a cord with the Sutter connection, and they certainly have had success, and it would mean some dramatic moves to realign the team into their West Coast mold.  Hmmm...  Let's get this thing done.  The longer it lingers, what with the Buffalo situation of big money, big changes in the offing, the more people are going to be suspect and get concerned.

[MAC331]

22 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

That's an interesting scenario.  Another would be to just elevate either Conroy or our ex-Phoenix GM.  Bringing in the LA guys would strike a cord with the Sutter connection, and they certainly have had success, and it would mean some dramatic moves to realign the team into their West Coast mold.  Hmmm...  Let's get this thing done.  The longer it lingers, what with the Buffalo situation of big money, big changes in the offing, the more people are going to be suspect and get concerned.

If anyone should go it should be King for how he has botched this whole Calgary Next legacy plot, his legacy. Hockey operations are doing just fine thx.

[phoenix66]

i know it makes for great discussion , but if i recall we did the same thing with JG  and his contract last year .. 

He wasnt signed the first week and all the talk and conjecture began .. there must be something wrong , he's demanded a trade .. he wants too much money ..etc

In the end , it dragged out but everybody got it done

 

To date the only reason we are even having this discussion is because he wasn't extended earlier, but that's already been addressed. He only just had a first meeting with management last week.. you don't sit down and come up with term and $ in one sitting . Personally I don't see any smoke here except from the matches the media is lighting .

I'm sure it will all be done by draft time .

[DirtyDeeds]

11 hours ago, tmac70 said:

So if BT is removed and it begining to seem that is a distint possibilty, does that mean Gulitzan is done as well, he was Trevlings guy? Burke has ties to the boys in LA, possible changing of the guard 

Burke's ties are with the Ducks

[rickross]

11 hours ago, tmac70 said:

So if BT is removed and it begining to seem that is a distint possibilty, does that mean Gulitzan is done as well, he was Trevlings guy? Burke has ties to the boys in LA, possible changing of the guard 

I don't see any reason for the Flames to remove BT, his positives far outweigh any negatives he's had during his tenure. A deal will be reached, it's just happening behind closed doors so the silence is the reason for these rumours concerning discord. Flames would be highly criticized for letting BT walk and to be honest they would have announced they were cutting ties with him as soon as the playoff run ended. Flames tried using the old guard to fill management before and sought out a younger more progressive minded GM in Treliving to steer the rebuild. There really aren't many qualified candidates to replace him so I don't imagine the Flames are looking to risk a massive front office overhaul at this stage. BT will be back but I can't say the same for the rest of the front office, they could always promote a guy like Maloney to the front end

[robrob74]

On 2017-04-28 at 7:29 AM, tmac70 said:

When you analyze what he has done has it made our prospect pool any better, not really. His draft years really each 1st Rounder a blind squirrel could have done. Hamilton trade was really his shining moment. Our prospect pool is no better than what has happened up north. Each of our 1st rounders made the team, there is no top talent in the minors, who bears that responsibility. How is it other clubs can find gems for replacements in their roster in the late stages of the draft but we simply struggle every year to never find one?

 

I agree he has not done anything to not warrant a consideration but he has not  done anything  that would place him in the GM of the year nomination either.

 

Then isn't that a condemnation of our scouts? 

If we can't credit Feaster for good draft picks, then we can't give any other GMs credit either. 

 

I give credit to Feaster, but others wouldn't. 

 

I agree, the talent isn't there, while I still wonder about some as they're still developing. How long does it take to develop though?