Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[The_People1]

Is anyone else a little concerned about the Burke influence following the world hockey championship?

Terrible decision on the coach. Very questionable roster decisions. A clear adherence to an old school philosophy that is no longer relevant in todays NHL.

I am glad he isn't the GM on Calgary. But he does set the direction and thst is a little concerning to me.

There is reason to be concerned for sure. Look what he did to the Leafs for example.

But like others have said, BT is the GM and should have final say on player acquisitions. That, and the World Cup is just a mere glorified preseason tourney so some players aren't in mid season form which can't fault everyone who has an influence in the team.

[MAC331]

There is reason to be concerned for sure. Look what he did to the Leafs for example.

But like others have said, BT is the GM and should have final say on player acquisitions. That, and the World Cup is just a mere glorified preseason tourney so some players aren't in mid season form which can't fault everyone who has an influence in the team.

All you have to do is look at the team being built here and not be concerned. Our mix is good between skill and size, you need both. I tell you a player I hate in opposition but would love on our team is Corey Perry, if Tkachuk can evolve in this mold we will all be pleased. BT has done a good job selecting quality potential players, of course he won't hit with all of them however I like what I see.

[kehatch]

Regarding Burke, there is a lot of evidence he still clings to old school methodology. Thst includes the various international teams he has built, his failure with the Leafs, and what he says publicaly in the media.

I agree that he isn't the GM. But his role is to mandate the direction of the club so there is consistency from GM to GM.

That all said, I agree the house isn't on fire. Outside of a couple of questionable transactions Treliving is taking the club in the right direction. Even Burke values skill over size as he has shown previously as a GM.

But it is a noteworthy conversation given the overall lack of success Burke has had since Anaheim and his public support of out of date ideals.

[robrob74]

Burke was the one who signed Stajan. But he also explains how there needs to be a mix of skill and heavy players.

One thing I see though, other than Treliving's first year, I don't see Burke's influence at all, minus the Baertschi incident. But that draft year I think Burke was heavily involved in it. But we got back to seeing skill and hockey sense override the truculent.

How many smaller skilled forwards have we drafted the last few years?

Personally, I would still like our 4th line to be a good high energy line, that can play of course. I still think there's a place for them to change momentum by outworking and cycling for a shift here and there. Maybe get under the other team's skin...

But I still see the team drafting for skill.

Burke has also stated that he lets his GM do the job. It's the GM's decision. I believe him. There is no evidence that shows Burke makes the final say, or that he undermines his GM decision making.

[conundrumed]

Everyone looks at the, "he got this guy, good, he got this guy, bad".

From an organizational standpoint, though, he has it going on.

I believe we have kicked the crap out of most everyone but Phoenix at the draft table in his reign.

 

Gaudreau-Mony

Tkachuk-Bennett

 

In a yr, that looks like a whole lot of trouble, and "heavier" team to me.

The 2nd pairing is going to be mayhem, I have little doubt.

[travel_dude]

Everyone looks at the, "he got this guy, good, he got this guy, bad".

From an organizational standpoint, though, he has it going on.

I believe we have kicked the crap out of most everyone but Phoenix at the draft table in his reign.

 

Gaudreau-Mony

Tkachuk-Bennett

 

In a yr, that looks like a whole lot of trouble, and "heavier" team to me.

The 2nd pairing is going to be mayhem, I have little doubt.

 

And wasn't he part of the decision making for Phoenix?

 

I like what we have gotten in the last few drafts, apart from from a few question marks.  Bennett was the best available in the top 10 except for Ekblad, but for a different reason.

Mony is killing it every year.

Tkachuk is a new pain in the butt, maybe in the same vein as Iggy.  Not in the pure skill area, but in the feistyness area.  

Hammy is like a 1st rounder ready to play.

Parsons looks like the real deal already.

Some of the other picks this year are quite good; Dube, Tuulola.  Phillips could be a steal.  

 

Just get the JH guy signed.  I hear he is pretty good at hockey.

[rickross]

Do the Flames fire BT immediately if he's unable to come to terms with JH and his camp?

[tincup1]

5 hours ago, rickross said:

Do the Flames fire BT immediately if he's unable to come to terms with JH and his camp?

 

Do not discount the influence from others within the organization.  Murray Edwards is a very hands on type of guy and I would think he's heavily involved in this.  I'm confident it'll get done, the only question is length of contract.  I'd be disappointed with a bridge contract but at this point, not surprised.  It also seems Lewis Gross is playing hard ball so it's not fair to put too much blame on the Flames. 

[CheersMan]

6 hours ago, rickross said:

Do the Flames fire BT immediately if he's unable to come to terms with JH and his camp?

 

2 hours ago, tincup1 said:

 

Do not discount the influence from others within the organization.  Murray Edwards is a very hands on type of guy and I would think he's heavily involved in this.  I'm confident it'll get done, the only question is length of contract.  I'd be disappointed with a bridge contract but at this point, not surprised.  It also seems Lewis Gross is playing hard ball so it's not fair to put too much blame on the Flames. 

 

This might have more to do with BB than BT.  Burke is on record as saying he has negotiated more difficult contracts in his time and he is not about to let this one……….  The Irishman appears to have drawn a line in the sand and BT’s hands are somewhat tied, which may not be a bad thing. 

 

[kehatch]

No. He isn't going to get fired. He has proven his ability to sign solid contracts. I also do t this is a Burke thing. Treliving has consistently been frugal in retaining players. The last extension Burke signed was Matt Stajan. 

[cross16]

Love how it's all the Flames fault and no one even considers the fact that the player and his agent sound like they are asking for an equally unreasonable ask the flames are. 

What the flames have done is just smart business in the cap era you simply cannot just give a player whatever he wants, it needs to be a fair market deal especially when you hold the leverage. I think this is as much, if not more, on gaudreau camps as it is the Flames. Takes two to negotiate. 

[DirtyDeeds]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Love how it's all the Flames fault and no one even considers the fact that the player and his agent sound like they are asking for an equally unreasonable ask the flames are. 

What the flames have done is just smart business in the cap era you simply cannot just give a player whatever he wants, it needs to be a fair market deal especially when you hold the leverage. I think this is as much, if not more, on gaudreau camps as it is the Flames. Takes two to negotiate. 

Or until we know what JH is actually asking or BT is actually offering all we can do is speculate on the whole process.

 

You can't determine that the JH is asking to much if you don't know what he is really asking for.

Roger Millions spoke about the only figure I have seen on what JH is asking and he qualified his statement that it was a gut feeling....

[CheersMan]

43 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Or until we know what JH is actually asking or BT is actually offering all we can do is speculate on the whole process.

 

You can't determine that the JH is asking to much if you don't know what he is really asking for.

Roger Millions spoke about the only figure I have seen on what JH is asking and he qualified his statement that it was a gut feeling....

 

Your right, its all speculation.  Both sides have kept the details quiet, eliminating outside interference.  The longer this goes though, the higher the risk of it turning nasty with irreversible damage.  I think we can safely say that JG is looking for something north of SM’s $6.375 otherwise he would’ve been signed by now. After watching TNA at the Worlds, particularly Nathon McKinnon who is a #1 center and power forward, why would JG think he is more valuable than NM?  JG is the smallest hockey player in the NHL and a LW’er who is immensely talented, but is he worth more than NM?  How many people here would swap JG for NM right now?  IMO, JG should be making < Gio but > SM long term. So we wait.

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

 

Your right, its all speculation.  Both sides have kept the details quiet, eliminating outside interference.  The longer this goes though, the higher the risk of it turning nasty with irreversible damage.  I think we can safely say that JG is looking for something north of SM’s $6.375 otherwise he would’ve been signed by now. After watching TNA at the Worlds, particularly Nathon McKinnon who is a #1 center and power forward, why would JG think he is more valuable than NM?  JG is the smallest hockey player in the NHL and a LW’er who is immensely talented, but is he worth more than NM?  How many people here would swap JG for NM right now?  IMO, JG should be making < Gio but > SM long term. So we wait.

 

Different players, different impact.  MacKinnon's stats line up closer to Monahan.  Duchene is probably a closer comparable for impact.  And that's after how many years in the league?  MacKinnon has not beat JH in goals or points over the last three year.  JH tops out at 0.88 p/gp, while MacKinnon is 0.70 p/gp.  

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

Different players, different impact.  MacKinnon's stats line up closer to Monahan.  Duchene is probably a closer comparable for impact.  And that's after how many years in the league?  MacKinnon has not beat JH in goals or points over the last three year.  JH tops out at 0.88 p/gp, while MacKinnon is 0.70 p/gp.  

Hypothetically I would swap JG for NM and move Bennett to LW with Monahan.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Hypothetically I would swap JG for NM and move Bennett to LW with Monahan.

 

Interesting thought.  What exactly is MacKinnon.  Is he a #1C, a secondary scoring center or a power forward?  Why has he struggled at times scoring? Why has Monahan had more success?  I have this feeling that Bennett will become a top line C possibly as soon as this year.

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Interesting thought.  What exactly is MacKinnon.  Is he a #1C, a secondary scoring center or a power forward?  Why has he struggled at times scoring? Why has Monahan had more success?  I have this feeling that Bennett will become a top line C possibly as soon as this year.

I think mackinnon is a good player, but mony has been better off playing with better linemates as in JH, I think that for sure helps.  I wouldnt trade JH for mackinnon, I dont see why you would. Bennett is going to be a top flight center in the NHL and considering he missed a whole year of development, hes doing pretty well for himself in this preseason(not that the preseason is the end all be all.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I think mackinnon is a good player, but mony has been better off playing with better linemates as in JH, I think that for sure helps.  I wouldnt trade JH for mackinnon, I dont see why you would. Bennett is going to be a top flight center in the NHL and considering he missed a whole year of development, hes doing pretty well for himself in this preseason(not that the preseason is the end all be all.

 

I wasn't saying I would trade him.  I was trying to understand the logic of trading for him.  I wouldn't move Bennett to wing, so MacKinnon would need to or Monahan.

I just don't see that trade makng us better, which is the only reason why you make the deal.

[AlbertaBoy12]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wasn't saying I would trade him.  I was trying to understand the logic of trading for him.  I wouldn't move Bennett to wing, so MacKinnon would need to or Monahan.

I just don't see that trade makng us better, which is the only reason why you make the deal.

No I know you said that, I was just quoting your point in the discussion. i dont see the point either

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Interesting thought.  What exactly is MacKinnon.  Is he a #1C, a secondary scoring center or a power forward?  Why has he struggled at times scoring? Why has Monahan had more success?  I have this feeling that Bennett will become a top line C possibly as soon as this year.

I think he is top C as good as Monahan. Hard to answer what is going on or has gone on in COL other than he doesn't have a feeder like Gaudreau and he isn't getting that team's best opportunities. Centers are the backbone of your team IMO, Gaudreau is an exceptional talent but not heads and shoulders above others on this team.

I agree Bennett will be an exceptional C for us as soon as this year.

[cccsberg]

14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think he is top C as good as Monahan. Hard to answer what is going on or has gone on in COL other than he doesn't have a feeder like Gaudreau and he isn't getting that team's best opportunities. Centers are the backbone of your team IMO, Gaudreau is an exceptional talent but not heads and shoulders above others on this team.

I agree Bennett will be an exceptional C for us as soon as this year.

Mackinnon is kind of a mix of Gaudreau and Monahan, being the size and C position of Monahan but with the speed and dynamic puck-carrying play of Gaudreau(not the puck handler, but....).  To me he's also kind of like Bennett in the sense of still learning how to best utilize his skills to maximize the potential of both him and his line mates.  

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Mackinnon is kind of a mix of Gaudreau and Monahan, being the size and C position of Monahan but with the speed and dynamic puck-carrying play of Gaudreau(not the puck handler, but....).  To me he's also kind of like Bennett in the sense of still learning how to best utilize his skills to maximize the potential of both him and his line mates.  

Sure, top players all have standout qualities any team would be happy to have. The Flames are now finally in good shape down the middle as we take into consideration Monahan, Bennett, Backlund and Jankowski ( on the way ). We are in good shape for LW depth and getting better quality for RW.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think he is top C as good as Monahan. Hard to answer what is going on or has gone on in COL other than he doesn't have a feeder like Gaudreau and he isn't getting that team's best opportunities. Centers are the backbone of your team IMO, Gaudreau is an exceptional talent but not heads and shoulders above others on this team.

I agree Bennett will be an exceptional C for us as soon as this year.

 

Here's the big question for you.  How often do you watch him play?  Just against Calgary or other games?  I ask that because you seem to have a sense of the players he lnes up with or the usage he gets.  If you said more than 10 games I would be impressed.

 

If you believe, like me, that Bennett will be an exceptional center in this league, why would you ever consider moving him to the wing.  

 

Would love to have him on my team, but not at the cost of JH.  Gio maybe.  Imagine a 1st line of JH-Monahan-MacKinnon or JH-Bennett-MacKinnon.  Absolutely deadly.

[robrob74]

One thing the Flames have that Colorado does not is an offensively gifted D core. If the Avs had that, maybe MacKinnon's numbers could be better.

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

Here's the big question for you.  How often do you watch him play?  Just against Calgary or other games?  I ask that because you seem to have a sense of the players he lnes up with or the usage he gets.  If you said more than 10 games I would be impressed.

 

If you believe, like me, that Bennett will be an exceptional center in this league, why would you ever consider moving him to the wing.  

 

Would love to have him on my team, but not at the cost of JH.  Gio maybe.  Imagine a 1st line of JH-Monahan-MacKinnon or JH-Bennett-MacKinnon.  Absolutely deadly.

Before you get all bent out of shape were we not talking hypothetically from your initial question ? Moving Bennett would only be because he could handle the move with ease.

How much hockey I watch is really none your business and judging talent is not something I have a hard time with. You started this dumb conversation, to bad you don't like the replies.