Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[JTech780]

7 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Before the start of the season we could have got the whole defensive roster and + of the VGK's for either Hamilton or Harmonic. If you have watched one of VGK games they are twice the defensive team that we are; heck they were competitive with a ECHL goalie. So is that REALLY BT's fault we are getting 40+ shots on our goal a game?

 

This team gave up more shots and goals when Hartley was here, so if giving up shots and scoring chances is still a problem then yes it is BT for not putting together a good enough roster.

[cross16]

Treliving for me is a bit polarizing. There are some excellent moves that you shouldn't be able to pull off, but then there are also ones that you can't see this thought process. So it's tough. That's being said I still think all things considered he bats well above avg. 

 

I also don't see the lack of an identity personally. I think if you look at the scouting, player development and moves Treliving has made he is building a team that's basis is speed, skill, puck possession, while not wanting to forget about being tough. I think he wants to build a team that can play the game anyway you want to play it, but is not going to build a team that has to rely on physical play to win. Now, as with every team really, there is going to be a player move or two that may not always fit the identity but this building a team isn't an exactly science either, it's a bit of a chemistry experiment. I don't think Jagr fits what Treliving wants, but the risk was worth trying to see if may it could work. I think as fans we often forget that a lot of the sports industry is built upon a roll of the dice chance. There is just no exact science to building a team or building a winner. 

 

I think if you look at how this team played from November through to the playoffs last year you saw the image of what Treliving wants in a team and I think for the most part that was pretty good. Have you seen that this year? No of course you haven't but I also don't think that necessarily means you abandon ship either. 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Treliving for me is a bit polarizing. There are some excellent moves that you shouldn't be able to pull off, but then there are also ones that you can't see this thought process. So it's tough. That's being said I still think all things considered he bats well above avg. 

 

At some point, BT needs to realize Monahan and Gaudreau are 4 and 5 year "veterans".  This idea we need Stajan, Versteeg because "veterans" is nonsensical.

 

Oh what about Janko.  What about Valimaki.  What about rookies.  Ya but you don't need one vet per rookie.  We don't need hand holding to that degree.  It's okay to have only one or two 30 year olds on the team, no more. 

 

Studies have shown the average NHL player's peak stats are at the age of 26 to 27.

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

At some point, BT needs to realize Monahan and Gaudreau are 4 and 5 year "veterans".  This idea we need Stajan, Versteeg because "veterans" is nonsensical.

 

Oh what about Janko.  What about Valimaki.  What about rookies.  Ya but you don't need one vet per rookie.  We don't need hand holding to that degree.  It's okay to have only one or two 30 year olds on the team, no more. 

 

Studies have shown the average NHL player's peak stats are at the age of 26 to 27.

I think the change over of Leadership on the team has begun. Stajan is playing less, Versteeg now injured (silverling others play), Jagr will be gone ad maybe even Backlund. I believe there has been a lot of good passed along and even this year having Bennett and Jankowski play with Jagr will yield some benefits, I like that we have Smith, Giordano for the defense unit remaining into next year but the forward group sees the young leaders take over.

[redfire11]

We have 6 more games before a 5 day break at the 16th.

 

Burke (if he had the $@lls) should put BT behind the bench with GG and Cammeron for the next 6 games and have BT in the locker room before and after and between periods of each game. If BT can't figure it out and fix it in the next 6 games BT is definitely not the man for the job.

[rickross]

Another round of applause for BT.  Great value in signing Backs long term, it's pretty savvy management to be getting Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund and Hamonic for essentially the same $ value as McDavid and Draisaitl. This does allow flexibility to take on and potentially extend a rental player acquired at the TDL.  All in all another great signing by Tre. 

[redfire11]

12 minutes ago, rickross said:

Another round of applause for BT.  Great value in signing Backs long term, it's pretty savvy management to be getting Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund and Hamonic for essentially the same $ value as McDavid and Draisaitl. This does allow flexibility to take on and potentially extend a rental player acquired at the TDL.  All in all another great signing by Tre. 

Agree good signing Except the NTC. Man BT likes to hand NTC's out. Brouwer, Versteeg, Frolik, Gio, Brodie, Stone, Backlund. Being traded is a great motivator.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

Agree good signing Except the NTC. Man BT likes to hand NTC's out. Brouwer, Versteeg, Frolik, Gio, Brodie, Stone, Backlund. Being traded is a great motivator.

 

3 years full NTC, 3 modified.

If you really want to trade the guy, he won;t get in the way 90% of the time.

The three years with the full NTC will be his best years for this team anyway.

[cross16]

a NTC sure as heck beats the NMC that Feaster and some other GMs hand out like candy. Game has changed, good luck getting any key player or FA to sign without a NTC these days, so they are hard for GMs to get around. I think Treliving has done a nice job minimizing the impact. 

[rickross]

8 hours ago, redfire11 said:

Agree good signing Except the NTC. Man BT likes to hand NTC's out. Brouwer, Versteeg, Frolik, Gio, Brodie, Stone, Backlund. Being traded is a great motivator.

I actually don't mind the NTC in Backlunds case...he's earned it. He also took a discount, survived the Dutter years, plus the guy made it clear he wants to play his career through as a Flame, he's arguably the poster boy of the Flames development system. 

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, rickross said:

I actually don't mind the NTC in Backlunds case...he's earned it. He also took a discount, survived the Dutter years, plus the guy made it clear he wants to play his career through as a Flame, he's arguably the poster boy of the Flames development system. 

LOL I don't know about poster boy but certainly a survivor of a few regimes.

[Thebrewcrew]

I was thrilled when BT acquired Hamonic and he’s been good this season I think.

 

However, he gave up far too much for him. If he wanted Hamonic he should ha e given up the Valimaki pick... I know I’m being over dramatic but right now our 1st is a lotto pick. Look at how big of a jump Dallas and Philly made in the lotto last season... I’m fine if NYI ends up picking like 13th with our pick but if it’s top 3....

 

Hindsight is 20/20 yes, but the GM needs to think long term and BT absolutely should have had that pick lotto protected. 

[ABC923]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I was thrilled when BT acquired Hamonic and he’s been good this season I think.

 

However, he gave up far too much for him. If he wanted Hamonic he should ha e given up the Valimaki pick... I know I’m being over dramatic but right now our 1st is a lotto pick. Look at how big of a jump Dallas and Philly made in the lotto last season... I’m fine if NYI ends up picking like 13th with our pick but if it’s top 3....

 

Hindsight is 20/20 yes, but the GM needs to think long term and BT absolutely should have had that pick lotto protected. 

I was skeptical when we picked him up.  Nothing I had seen or read suggested he was that great a player, but people were adamant he was great.  People on this board were willing to trade Hamilton for him straight up.  Well, he's a pretty average 4/5 defender.  The right shot is nice, and he's better than Stone, but that's not saying much.  Two seconds was the right price, as that might be what he's worth today. He's fine.  It isn't his fault, and he is what he is.  But this trade should be what gets BT fired imo.  Straw that breaks the camel's back,as it were. 

 

BT has made one really good trade: Hamilton.  He's been solid at negotiating great deals with our RFAs (and our UFAs for that matter, but not others).  But otherwise what has he done?  Traded for Smith.  That's okay I guess, but what does a non-playoff team need with an aging netminder with injury problems.  He signed Versteeg this year, who was awful before he got hurt.  Brought in Glass for...reasons... not to mention that plug on defense last year who made Engelland look like McDavid before being cut (I forget his name and can't be bothered to look it up).  Overpaid Brouwer, another move that predictably bombed.  Brought in Stone at an inflated contract.  Brought in Stewart, who wasn't good enough to be Minny's 13th forward.  Overpaid for Lazar.  Has so far failed to bring in any RW help of note.  And now we are about to lose out on Dahlin (I know the odds are low, but the Flames have cronic bad luck so I expect them to 'win' the draft lottery).  And lets not forget our illustrious coaching staff.  We're getting career years from Mony, Gaudreau, Tkachuk (so far), and Ferland, plus decent years out of Hamilton, Gio, Backlund, Janko, and Stajan (for what it's worth), and we're going to miss the playoffs.  What a waste.

[tmac70]

Trevlings should not return. As much of a baffon our last GM was are we any better today? Really BT's strongest asset is contract negotiations , the rest is sub par. This team needs a retool, bad. 

 

1) Clean house, Burke to the coaches gone, the minute the final horn goes so should the ax

2) Replace PHO, GM, coach

3) Move the Satoshi Nakamoto out, and make some hockey trades

 

enough of this petty Hash Rate bull Satoshi Nakamoto of reclaimation projects and crappy role players 

[cross16]

The Calgary Flames path to glory

a new coach ever 2 years 

New GM every 4

win Stanley... oh wait...

[tmac70]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

The Calgary Flames path to glory

a new coach ever 2 years 

New GM every 4

win Stanley... oh wait...

Do you seriously believe this guy can win you a cup, seriously!!!  When you look at the coaches pool when Gully was hired you can not tell me he was the best option. He was the cheapest hire , When you hire on salary and not qualifications this is what you get. So if you give Tre and Gully the popular vote what actually have either accomplished in their time here. Everyone marvels in the prospect pool but he seems to dive into the wishing well for reclamation projects, never giving the young guys the opportunity. We get old bubble gum with hope the flavor comes back. Is there turnover damn rights cause who ever is doing the hiring is Blockchaining moron.

 

He asked for control of all trades and transactions they gave it to him, and how has it turned out. This is hos club his hires, his trades and his FA signings, 100% his finger print. Much like our past GM he owes this Satoshi Nakamoto. This is BT version of all in with this roster and coaches, been entertaining to watch.

[cross16]

There is zero point in having a discussion with you. All you will do is get mad, yell back and provide no facts or data. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that, but that really isn't anything to discuss here.

 

Yes I think Treliving should remain the GM. All GMs make mistakes, all GMs make big mistakes the key is to learn and grow and i've seen him do that. Give me a GM and i'll show you a big mistake, probably more than 1. Flames need to stop with the knee jerk reactions and finding a scapegoat for every season. Successful organization do not do that. 

[MAC331]

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

There is zero point in having a discussion with you. All you will do is get mad, yell back and provide no facts or data. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that, but that really isn't anything to discuss here.

 

Yes I think Treliving should remain the GM. All GMs make mistakes, all GMs make big mistakes the key is to learn and grow and i've seen him do that. Give me a GM and i'll show you a big mistake, probably more than 1. Flames need to stop with the knee jerk reactions and finding a scapegoat for every season. Successful organization do not do that. 

I believe regardless of this season this coach and team are going through the growing pains together. This team is not at the stage of a SC challenger and this is where some get messed up with expectations, right or wrong. I didn't like the Cameron hire ad maybe that would be a change that could be made. Besides this we need better players in places in order to become faster and more skilled within our forward group. I honestly think we have a chance to do this in the offseason. If I could point to the one area of weakness it would have to be on defense, specifically the play of Brodie and Hamonic together but others are not far behind. We can't get rid of them all but I would start with trading Brodie and Stone. The other order of the day is to unload Brouwer any way possible so he is gone and out of the way.

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

There is zero point in having a discussion with you. All you will do is get mad, yell back and provide no facts or data. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that, but that really isn't anything to discuss here.

 

Yes I think Treliving should remain the GM. All GMs make mistakes, all GMs make big mistakes the key is to learn and grow and i've seen him do that. Give me a GM and i'll show you a big mistake, probably more than 1. 

 

We only have to look north to see what a bad GM can do.  Or look at Washington.

Ruining two teams.

 

BT made a move to get a good D-man after he had a bad season.  Gave up draft picks.

HE put the players in the hands of a coach he thought could do the job.

The Brouwer signing is about the worst move he made. 

Stewart was free.  Shore was an underpay.  Neither is going to be difference makes.  So what.

The prices paid for players was insane.

I'm glad we "lost out" on the Kane deal.

Tartar was way overpriced.

Nash?  Give me a break.

McDonagh?  High price paid.

Statsny was a player I have wanted, but that price included something we didn't have.  Dumb trade by STL.

 

My biggest complaint about BT is that he was only able to call up players that would not get a chance to play.

Was there more he could do?  Probably call GG into his office and lay down the law.  You do that and you can't

blame the coach for a loss.  But whatever.  The coach will get the axe this summer and it may be justified.

  

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

There is zero point in having a discussion with you. All you will do is get mad, yell back and provide no facts or data. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that, but that really isn't anything to discuss here.

 

Yes I think Treliving should remain the GM. All GMs make mistakes, all GMs make big mistakes the key is to learn and grow and i've seen him do that. Give me a GM and i'll show you a big mistake, probably more than 1. Flames need to stop with the knee jerk reactions and finding a scapegoat for every season. Successful organization do not do that. 

LMAO who is mad.  Pitts, TO ( Last few years), NSH, Tampa, Bos, Vegas ect. Did they have growing pains yes, have they made moves to advance yes, we have not. Are we better than last year, if not why who is responsible. How can several organizations that pick in the bottom of the draft still have the ability to inject prospects having impact on a roster but we never can.

 

Your point is valid that GM``s  make wrong decisions however the good ones make better deals that over shadow the bad. When we have no 1st or 2nd rounders in the draft  Tre went all in.  Accountability is crucial in any successful organization and My point is if this is his idea of a contender, you have to really evaluate his staff`s ability to recognize talent as well as him.  Sorry if it hurts your feelings as I do value your insight on this forum, out side of good contract extensions he has been less than effective in his role to this point.

[cross16]

Doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Its just not worth it. Like I said I respect your opinion, we just clearly disagree and likely arer't going to change each other minds. 

[phoenix66]

I have no issue with BT, I shudder to think where Feaster would have it .

Yes the Brouwer signing was bad,  but I put a lot of that one on the pro scouts and the Player .. I saw the player that was a beast for St Louis in the playoffs, apparently that guy got lost on the drive here and never arrived.

I would make the Hamonic trade again , he obviously just isn't integrating as fast as we hoped.. as we've said all along even Dougie was getting run out of town his first season here 

Outside of a consistent higher end RW, this team is way better than they are showing .. I would say they easily have as much talent on the Ice as Nashville 

Like i posted in the other thread, I put a ton of this on Gully.. and while I wouldn't fire him just to fire him?  If he can be replaced with a big name if they come available ?(Quenneville, Vigneault) .. in a second 

As far as the bargain bin pickups , he only has so much to work with .. every team in this league has bargain bin players .. nobody for a second expects Stewart to be the second coming of Draisaitl , its quality depth , that's it ..   if we were locked in a playoff spot then fine go for the big prizes.. but how ticked would everybody have been to spend those high end assets for a UFA that walks at end the year , and not have made the playoffs ?

 

[MAC331]

14 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I have no issue with BT, I shudder to think where Feaster would have it .

Yes the Brouwer signing was bad,  but I put a lot of that one on the pro scouts and the Player .. I saw the player that was a beast for St Louis in the playoffs, apparently that guy got lost on the drive here and never arrived.

I would make the Hamonic trade again , he obviously just isn't integrating as fast as we hoped.. as we've said all along even Dougie was getting run out of town his first season here 

Outside of a consistent higher end RW, this team is way better than they are showing .. I would say they easily have as much talent on the Ice as Nashville 

Like i posted in the other thread, I put a ton of this on Gully.. and while I wouldn't fire him just to fire him?  If he can be replaced with a big name if they come available ?(Quenneville, Vigneault) .. in a second 

As far as the bargain bin pickups , he only has so much to work with .. every team in this league has bargain bin players .. nobody for a second expects Stewart to be the second coming of Draisaitl , its quality depth , that's it ..   if we were locked in a playoff spot then fine go for the big prizes.. but how ticked would everybody have been to spend those high end assets for a UFA that walks at end the year , and not have made the playoffs ?

 

Maybe we should be thankful BT didn't have any real ammunition to chase any big fish. Stewart for 3rd line RW worth a try over Hathaway or Brouwer. Shore could be a pleasant surprise come next season.

[phoenix66]

Just now, MAC331 said:

Maybe we should be thankful BT didn't have any real ammunition to chase any big fish. Stewart for 3rd line RW worth a try over Hathaway or Brouwer. Shore could be a pleasant surprise come next season.

exactly ...  and i think even if he did , his words prior were very telling , the team hasn't given him reason to "reward" them with help .. thats one reason , if we miss the playoffs, I expect heads will roll

[JTech780]

I am really starting to wonder how much influence Burke has over the construction of this team. I could be wrong on this but I think BT gets his marching orders from Burke, and Burke decides what kind of team he wants. The problem is that I think Treliving and Gulutzan have different views of how to construct a roster than Burke does. 

 

I am not so sure that it isn't Brian Burke that has to go and bring in someone that values speed and youth to be the president of hockey ops. Al MacInnis is a guy that jumps to mind, he has been working in management under Armstrong as vice president of hockey ops for quite awhile, and might be ready for the next phase of his management career, he also has ties to Calgary.