MAC331 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I agree he is versatile, but that doesn't make him a good center. We have lots of better options. He is ok as an injury fill-in, but prefer him to be used with a defensive center on PK, and a wing spot at even. All I was thinking was that as a C it may allow us to get more of our bigger players into the line up. Barring any significant moves to add a new forward we could roll with these lines. Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler Bennett, Backlund, Jones Ferland, Bouma, Colborne Bollig, Stajan, Shore Then slot players like Jooris, Granlund and Poirier in along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 All I was thinking was that as a C it may allow us to get more of our bigger players into the line up. Barring any significant moves to add a new forward we could roll with these lines. Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler Bennett, Backlund, Jones Ferland, Bouma, Colborne Bollig, Stajan, Shore Then slot players like Jooris, Granlund and Poirier in along the way. Jooris is better at faceoffs. Granlund is a good defensive player that the coach really likes, but isn't good at faceoffs. I think he could be a better winger. Unless Bollig improves dramatically, he won't be in the top 12. I have no real idea of the lines for the fall, as we don't know who will step up in TC, but I THINK you may see Granlund, Shore and Poirier step up. Whether that means a trade or injury replacement, we should see all of them for most of the season. I consider Bollig and Raymond to be on the outs. Jones could also be a trade option at some point, although I have no problems with the role he played last year. Deadline deal most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Jooris is better at faceoffs. Granlund is a good defensive player that the coach really likes, but isn't good at faceoffs. I think he could be a better winger. Unless Bollig improves dramatically, he won't be in the top 12. I have no real idea of the lines for the fall, as we don't know who will step up in TC, but I THINK you may see Granlund, Shore and Poirier step up. Whether that means a trade or injury replacement, we should see all of them for most of the season. I consider Bollig and Raymond to be on the outs. Jones could also be a trade option at some point, although I have no problems with the role he played last year. Deadline deal most likely. I agree all 3 of Bollig, Raymond and Jones get exchanged at some point. I will be watching the next few weeks to see if at least Raymond is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Here is a good read and more Bouma support. http://flamesfrom80feet.blogspot.ca/2015/06/bouma-has-shown-his-commitment-to-team.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Here is a good read and more Bouma support. http://flamesfrom80feet.blogspot.ca/2015/06/bouma-has-shown-his-commitment-to-team.html Obviously a fan but I don't think Bouma gets past 1.5M and a 3 year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I really like Bouma but overpaying depth guys is how trams get into problems. If you pay Bouma over 2 mill, on a long term deal I think you regret it. Bouma throughout his entire career has not produced at the offensively level he did last season and say his shooting percentage triple. The odds of him scoring 16 goals again are slim and if you sign him for over 2 and he falls back into the 8-10 goal range you've got a bad deal on your hands for many years. I'd say either a one year deal at 1.5 or a 3 year deal at 1.75 are the options you start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I really like Bouma but overpaying depth guys is how trams get into problems. If you pay Bouma over 2 mill, on a long term deal I think you regret it. Bouma throughout his entire career has not produced at the offensively level he did last season and say his shooting percentage triple. The odds of him scoring 16 goals again are slim and if you sign him for over 2 and he falls back into the 8-10 goal range you've got a bad deal on your hands for many years. I'd say either a one year deal at 1.5 or a 3 year deal at 1.75 are the options you start with. Agreed. He is a fourth line role player that can give you some PK time. He can play up a line if you need him to. He is exactly the type of player you want in that situation. But if the Flames pay him as a top 9 forward it is going to hurt us down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Agreed. He is a fourth line role player that can give you some PK time. He can play up a line if you need him to. He is exactly the type of player you want in that situation. But if the Flames pay him as a top 9 forward it is going to hurt us down the road. This is Eric Nystrom all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 This is Eric Nystrom all over again Exactly, and how the did that contract turn out? Nystrom is the cautionary tale the Flames need to remember when talking contract with Bouma. I know its tough because everyone loves Bouma and he is a heart and sole guy but you cant overpay for it. I remember Darryl Sutter when he went into that negotiation saying something along the lines of we love him but have to remember at the end of the day he is a 10 goal guy and his salary needs to be in the line of that of a 10 goal guy. Bouma needs to be paid like a fringe 3rd liner and not paid like a 16 goal heart and sole guy or I think the Flames will really regret the deal in a year or two just like the Stars and Wild did with Nystrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Exactly, and how the did that contract turn out? Nystrom is the cautionary tale the Flames need to remember when talking contract with Bouma. I know its tough because everyone loves Bouma and he is a heart and sole guy but you cant overpay for it. I remember Darryl Sutter when he went into that negotiation saying something along the lines of we love him but have to remember at the end of the day he is a 10 goal guy and his salary needs to be in the line of that of a 10 goal guy. Bouma needs to be paid like a fringe 3rd liner and not paid like a 16 goal heart and sole guy or I think the Flames will really regret the deal in a year or two just like the Stars and Wild did with Nystrom. I like Bouma, but only less than $1.5m a year. He earned a raise, but no more than Backlund did coming out of his ELC. I would think a 2-3 year deal @ $1.5m would be more than reasonable for a role player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Problem with a 2 year deal is it takes him right to UFA. I think Flames need to do either a 1 year deal or a 3 year deal with Bouma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I think Bouma is the type of guy that would value a 3 year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 $1.55M/yr would be double what Bouma made last season, and that would be the most I would pay him regardless of term. Ferland or Wolf could potentially replace him in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 $1.55M/yr would be double what Bouma made last season, and that would be the most I would pay him regardless of term. Ferland or Wolf could potentially replace him in the future. I wouldn't say Ferland is a replacement for Bouma; they are different players. Bouma is a defensive specialist, who blocks shots and will chip in goals. Ferland is a power forward just learning offense at the NHL level. Wolf and Hathaway would be closer to Bouma in style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Fair enough re: Ferland. The point I was trying to make is that Bouma would not be too difficult to replace. Don't get me wrong, I love many things about his game, but he's needs to be paid as a bottom 6 forward. When our young core matures, the top 6 - 8 players will get paid well, everyone else has to be on a value contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Fair enough re: Ferland. The point I was trying to make is that Bouma would not be too difficult to replace. Don't get me wrong, I love many things about his game, but he's needs to be paid as a bottom 6 forward. When our young core matures, the top 6 - 8 players will get paid well, everyone else has to be on a value contract. I get ya. Bouma is the type of player that teams hope for. Not too expensive, blocks everything in sight, will fight, will score, and wears his heart on his sleeve. You don't overpay for that, but he is less replaceable than you might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 You like the same things about him as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I would say up to 2 mil a year for him. He can play Anywhere bottom six, and can at least be defensively responsible in a 2nd line role (as we saw last year with the Bouma/Backlund/Jones). And we have to do more than 1 year, we gave him a 1 year deal last year as a prove it. He did. Could he do what he did last year consistently? Probably not but wouldn't be unheard of, but we should pay him as a defensive specialist, PK guy who can do 10-12 goals a year and 20-25 points a year. Give him 3 years, and if he does manage to reproduce last year with some consistency or at least close to it (15 goals/30+ points) than we can give him another raise after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I get ya. Bouma is the type of player that teams hope for. Not too expensive, blocks everything in sight, will fight, will score, and wears his heart on his sleeve. You don't overpay for that, but he is less replaceable than you might think. Is he better, same, or worse than Prust? I think they're similar, and think, yes, we would miss him... If he made 1.55 then we have to qualify him at that. I think if he wants ,ore then we need to shop him. Anything over that price tag is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Krox, I think on our team he was a second line player by the fact that there wasn't a better option or on any other team he and everyone on that line would be a 3rd liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I think Bouma has a solid chance to progress in a very similar fashion as Glencross. Bouma has the skating ability to be a top 9 forward. What surprised me this past season was his shooting ability, he has a very good shot, its quick and hard, he just needs to refine that ability a bit and work on his accuracy and I think he can be a very competent 2nd/3rd liner. With that being said I still need him to show that he do what he did in the 2nd half last year, again this upcoming season before he gets a big raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is he better, same, or worse than Prust? I think they're similar, and think, yes, we would miss him... If he made 1.55 then we have to qualify him at that. I think if he wants ,ore then we need to shop him. Anything over that price tag is too much. I don't think Prust is as good a player now as Bouma could become. As JTech says, he does have some skills that you don't always see in that breed of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 JTech, I've heard that over the last summer Bouma actually went to a scoring coach to help him improve his shot quality, power and speed. Explains a bit of that jump in goals.What sucks is Belesky's contract sets a bit of a standard for Bouma as they have similar point numbers on average, including last seasons bump in points for both. They also play a similar style except Bouma blocks more shots and hits more often (and I would say is better on the PK to top it off). I would say after that, at 2 mil for 3 years is about the minimum we could expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 JTech, I've heard that over the last summer Bouma actually went to a scoring coach to help him improve his shot quality, power and speed. Explains a bit of that jump in goals. What sucks is Belesky's contract sets a bit of a standard for Bouma as they have similar point numbers on average, including last seasons bump in points for both. They also play a similar style except Bouma blocks more shots and hits more often (and I would say is better on the PK to top it off). I would say after that, at 2 mil for 3 years is about the minimum we could expect. This the same coach that was working with Backlund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is he better, same, or worse than Prust? I think they're similar, and think, yes, we would miss him... If he made 1.55 then we have to qualify him at that. I think if he wants ,ore then we need to shop him. Anything over that price tag is too much. Bouma was sent a qualifying offer of $813.75k (105% of his $775K 2014/2015 salary). Doubling his salary to $1.1625/yr. would be more than fair. I'd offer a 3 year term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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