(Update) Lance Bouma gets $2.2 AAV for 3 years

[kehatch]

I agree with cross. You have to be careful not to get suckered into paying for the offense this season. It isn't something he has ever done at any level.

At the same time Bouma isn't going to sign a long term 4 line contract after this season.

A short term "do it again" contract makes the most sense for both sides.

[MAC331]

Ferland and Wolf look to bring the same type of game but I sign Bouma back for next year.

[travel_dude]

I think a one year deal in the 1mill to 1.2 mill range should suffice. I'm not a fan of locking him up for multiple years because I'm not convinced he can repeat this performance. I see him settling in to the 3rd line role and putting up 8-12 goals a year. A one year deal gives each of Bouma and the Flames a chance to establish what he is while still keeping him a RFA at the duration of the contract. I think Bouma has a future with the flames for sure it's just in what capacity. Yes the flames have talent coming but they don't have many prospects what will bring the type of game Bouma does. It's a weakness of their systems actually imo.

If we are paying Bollig 1.25m, then we pay Bouma the same or more. How valuable are his hits/blocks in a game; they are worth more than Bollig's contribution. I think he has always shown up as a gritty player, so I would have no trouble locking him up for 3 years. Low risk. Tradable asset.

[cross16]

If we are paying Bollig 1.25m, then we pay Bouma the same or more. How valuable are his hits/blocks in a game; they are worth more than Bollig's contribution. I think he has always shown up as a gritty player, so I would have no trouble locking him up for 3 years. Low risk. Tradable asset.

Keep in mind the 1 to 1.2 is on a one year deal and keeps him an RFA, where Boligs deal covered UFA years. If you want Bouma on a 3 year deal I don't think anywhere around 1-1.25 would cut it. I think Bouma would be looking for closer to 1.75 per on a multi year deal, maybe more.

[robrob1974]

The one thing we have to recognize is that yes, Bouma has played up and down the lineup. But on a Stanley Cup team, would he play up and down the lineup? Or would he remain on a 3rd or 4th line. 

 

He's getting the opportunity to play up the roster because there's not much else there. His numbers are inflated a bit due to that. I will compare him to Glencross. It's a similar situation where on most good teams, Glencross was a lower 2nd liner or a definite 3rd liner. But on the Flames they're playing up the lineup. 

 

When we get better, do we want to be paying him anywhere between a 2nd or 3rd liner? Who knows, as we gain skill, he could end up a 4th liner. 

 

But we also have to question his upside/growth potential. How far can Bouma take it?

I'd maybe go 1.5

Not sure the term.

[Khrox]

I would have no issues of 1.5-2 mil for Bouma. This is a guy who has bought into the system completely. At this point we are rewarding him for his offense, but also paying him for what he brings to the team. He hits a lot, but doesn't take himself out of the play doing it (like some players we've had in the past), blocks anything he can in range, regardless of who is shooting or where it's going to hit him. Is willing to fight for his teammates. He gets involved in the scrums, he crashes the net. He is defensively responsible, and while excels on the LW, he can and has played all 3 forward positions with reasonable success (and would probably play D or even goalie if we wanted him too). He can play bottom 6 no problem, as either a grinder/checker or as a third line scorer. He can play 15-17 minutes a night and not look out of place. And he is young enough there is room to grow (though I don't imagine too much more growing, as he is also at the older end of being a young guy, at 25). Let's say this year was a fluke, he is still a guy who can score 10 goals and 20 points from the third/fourth line and isn't a liability out there. That is something you want to keep around. But if this year isn't a fluke, this is a 15 goal 30-40 point third liner who is not a liability out there who can fill in on second line duty for injury or mixing up the lines to try and create a spark - who is not a liability in his own zone. Hell, maybe next year he improves some more, even if it's not much it puts him as a borderline second liner (maybe a fill in on contenders during injuries but regularly third, or legit second liner on non-playoff and bubble teams). Remember, two years ago he only played 3 games before having a season ending injury. Last year was his first full NHL season (but he's played enough to not be a rookie over the couple previous seasons). This is his second full year in the NHL, and first full year where he didn't spend most the summer rehabbing to be able to play come training camp. There is a real possibility that this could be a normal year for him, as Hartley's system definitely is a system that promotes playstyles like Bouma's.

If it's a 1 or 2 year deal I would definitely be okay with closer to 2 mil/year and re-evaluate, if it was 4 years I would lean more towards 1.5/1.7 a year.

[Davis1891]

I've mentioned it in another thread, but I believe he should be locked up long term (maybe as others have suggested, after another "show me" bridge contract), as I see him as almost core material. He's not flashy, he doesn't score a lot, but he brings EVERYTHING else that a successful team needs for long term standings.

And as I'm writing this, I see that he's 7th overall in the nhl with 250 hits.

[kehatch]

Ferland and Wolf look to bring the same type of game but I sign Bouma back for next year.

 

They are all physical. But they are very different players IMO.  

[420since1974]

Bouma has more hockey IQ.

 

His head has been on a swivel, thinking ahead about where the puck is going to be.

 

 

Ferland & Wolf have a ways to go before they could step into his skates.

[CheersMan]

I think a one year deal in the 1mill to 1.2 mill range should suffice. I'm not a fan of locking him up for multiple years because I'm not convinced he can repeat this performance. I see him settling in to the 3rd line role and putting up 8-12 goals a year. A one year deal gives each of Bouma and the Flames a chance to establish what he is while still keeping him a RFA at the duration of the contract. I think Bouma has a future with the flames for sure it's just in what capacity. Yes the flames have talent coming but they don't have many prospects what will bring the type of game Bouma does. It's a weakness of their systems actually imo.

 

 

I agree with cross. You have to be careful not to get suckered into paying for the offense this season. It isn't something he has ever done at any level.

At the same time Bouma isn't going to sign a long term 4 line contract after this season.

A short term "do it again" contract makes the most sense for both sides.

 

 

Just for comparison, the 32yr old GlenX will probably fetch something north of 15mil in the offseason.  Offering Bouma another “show me” 1 year/1mil contract is no way to treat a player particularly after you used the same tactic the year prior.  Bouma has come through on his end of the deal.  Now it’s time to give the player a respectable term and $$.  This is a win win for both sides.

[robrob1974]

The previous regime did that with Backlund.

I think Bouma is worth 2m max. If we pay more, we are over paying.

Is he overachieving on a team that's doing just that? Or is this what he's trending to? I would want to see if it's a trend or not? 1.5@3yrs

[Flamespatriot]

I can't beleive how effective Bomua has become. He's physical, has decent skating, excellent defensivly, and blocks shots like a goalie. WHen the duck's grumpy coach proclaimed that "Booms" is the player every coach wants on their team, I couldn't disagree . 

[kehatch]

 

Just for comparison, the 32yr old GlenX will probably fetch something north of 15mil in the offseason.  Offering Bouma another “show me” 1 year/1mil contract is no way to treat a player particularly after you used the same tactic the year prior.  Bouma has come through on his end of the deal.  Now it’s time to give the player a respectable term and $$.  This is a win win for both sides.

 

Glencross:

 

Bouma:

 

See the discrepancy?  How about this:

 

Glencross:

 

Bouma:

 

Glencross has 7 consecutive seasons in the NHL scoring at a 15 goal / 40 point pace.  Most of those he was scoring at a 25 to 30 goal pace.  Bouma is 25 years old and has never put up good offensive numbers in the NHL, AHL, or WHL until this season.  Your paying Glencross because he has done it again and again.  Bouma hasn't shown that this season is more then an anomaly and until he does you have to be careful how much you pay him.  

 

I am not suggesting we should pay him less then a million.  I think 1.5 million on a 1 year contract or 2 million per season a 2 year contract makes sense.  But if you pay him as a 15 goal scorer you are taking a huge risk and I seriously doubt the agent or the player expect that.  A short term prove it contract is what makes sense to both the player and the team.    

[cross16]

As kehatch said you are not using a valid comparison because Bouma doesn't have the career numbers or the proof he can do this again and he probably gets that. Paying a guy for one season is very risky business.

Here is another thing to think about, Bouma is 2 years away from UFA which is why I would go the one year deal route. If you give him a two year deal you take him right to UFA and then have a tougher negotiation on your hands. To sign a 3 year deal will likely mean paying over 2 mill per and I'm not ready to do that. A one year makes sense for all parties involved and stil doesn't mean Bouma still won't get a pay day at some point if he continues at this pace.

[CheersMan]

Glencross:

 

Bouma:

 

See the discrepancy?  How about this:

 

Glencross:

 

Bouma:

 

Glencross has 7 consecutive seasons in the NHL scoring at a 15 goal / 40 point pace.  Most of those he was scoring at a 25 to 30 goal pace.  Bouma is 25 years old and has never put up good offensive numbers in the NHL, AHL, or WHL until this season.  Your paying Glencross because he has done it again and again.  Bouma hasn't shown that this season is more then an anomaly and until he does you have to be careful how much you pay him.  

 

I am not suggesting we should pay him less then a million.  I think 1.5 million on a 1 year contract or 2 million per season a 2 year contract makes sense.  But if you pay him as a 15 goal scorer you are taking a huge risk and I seriously doubt the agent or the player expect that.  A short term prove it contract is what makes sense to both the player and the team.    

 

 

As kehatch said you are not using a valid comparison because Bouma doesn't have the career numbers or the proof he can do this again and he probably gets that. Paying a guy for one season is very risky business.

Here is another thing to think about, Bouma is 2 years away from UFA which is why I would go the one year deal route. If you give him a two year deal you take him right to UFA and then have a tougher negotiation on your hands. To sign a 3 year deal will likely mean paying over 2 mill per and I'm not ready to do that. A one year makes sense for all parties involved and stil doesn't mean Bouma still won't get a pay day at some point if he continues at this pace.

 

We all know what GlenX has done.  I’m not suggesting that Bouma will have the same success.  I was simply comparing 2 players at opposite ends of their careers.  One is young and on the rise, while the other is aging and likely on the decline.  They are presently producing at the same rate.  If you had to pick one to invest in moving forward on a rebuilding team which one would it be?  I’ve seen enough of Bouma to have confidence in locking him up for several years.  There is no way he will take another one year deal, unless of course it is extremely heavy, and that is not what is being proposed by some in this thread.

[MAC331]

I wouldn't have any problem seeing Bouma resigned for 3 years at 1.8M.

[travel_dude]

As kehatch said you are not using a valid comparison because Bouma doesn't have the career numbers or the proof he can do this again and he probably gets that. Paying a guy for one season is very risky business.

Here is another thing to think about, Bouma is 2 years away from UFA which is why I would go the one year deal route. If you give him a two year deal you take him right to UFA and then have a tougher negotiation on your hands. To sign a 3 year deal will likely mean paying over 2 mill per and I'm not ready to do that. A one year makes sense for all parties involved and stil doesn't mean Bouma still won't get a pay day at some point if he continues at this pace.

 

Short-term deals offer the team flexibility, but at some point you have to identify the types of players you wish to retain. Bouma has sacrificed his body for the team every game. Do you really want to say to him, let see you do it again before we commit to you?

 

It's a low risk offering him a 3 year deal. If he is that much better in 3 years, you offer him a raise to the level he deserves.  If he doesn't improve, then you offer the same dollars.  3x$1.5m is not crazy expensive, and shows to him that he earned a raise. You also show some faith in the player.

[CheersMan]

I think we can win with Bouma and would consider him an essential piece on either the bottom 2 lines.  Our window to win is probably 2-5 years out.  I’d be tempted to offer him a 5 year/10mil deal with annual cap hit of 2mil.  We have the money now, we could front load the contract so that in 3-5 yrs when we are up against the cap we have the money for others.   Maybe something like 2.75, 2.5, 2.0, 1.5 and 1.25mil?

[travel_dude]

I think we can win with Bouma and would consider him an essential piece on either the bottom 2 lines.  Our window to win is probably 2-5 years out.  I’d be tempted to offer him a 5 year/10mil deal with annual cap hit of 2mil.  We have the money now, we could front load the contract so that in 3-5 yrs when we are up against the cap we have the money for others.   Maybe something like 2.75, 2.5, 2.0, 1.5 and 1.25mil?

 

I don't think a player that young accepts a front-loaded deal.  Sure he gets paid now, but make it look like he is a value player down the road.  Back-loaded makes more sense to the player, so reverse the numbers.  I am also reluctant to go 5 years on a player like him, just because his playing style takes its toll.

[CheersMan]

I don't think a player that young accepts a front-loaded deal.  Sure he gets paid now, but make it look like he is a value player down the road.  Back-loaded makes more sense to the player, so reverse the numbers.  I am also reluctant to go 5 years on a player like him, just because his playing style takes its toll.

 

For some reason I was thinking the yearly cap hit would shrink as the contract matures, in fact the cap hit would be an equal 2mil every year, my bad.  I agree his playing style takes its toll.

[cross16]

Short-term deals offer the team flexibility, but at some point you have to identify the types of players you wish to retain. Bouma has sacrificed his body for the team every game. Do you really want to say to him, let see you do it again before we commit to you?

It's a low risk offering him a 3 year deal. If he is that much better in 3 years, you offer him a raise to the level he deserves. If he doesn't improve, then you offer the same dollars. 3x$1.5m is not crazy expensive, and shows to him that he earned a raise. You also show some faith in the player.

On the flip side of that though, why would Bouma agree to lock in at such a low rate? Bouma is worth between 1-1.5 right now and kf he has another good year next year he's worth 2 or more. Why would he leave so much money on the table? I would argue he would be more put off by that offer then a one year deal that allows him up cash in if he repeats the performance. I don't see a scenario where you get Bouma to agree on a multi year deal for less then 2. He's potentially leave a good chunk of change on the table if he does.

I think everyone assumes a one year deal means a team doesn't believe in a player or isn't commiting and I don't agree with that. The flames still retain him as an Rfa so I view it as a chance to say we want you but go establish your market first and we will give you every opportunity to establish that market and we will still have your rights and ability to pay you. I don't view that as a slight against him at all.

[kehatch]

People are speaking like giving Bouma a short term contract is an insult. It is what he and his agent are going to want.

When you look at the body of work no team is able to pay him big dollars in a moderately termed contract. Even if he was a UFA. And he is an RFA. He hasn't earned it based on one season of production.

If he was to get a term contract it will be at a low dollar amount. Why would he want that? Better to take a 1 year deal and prove he can duplicate his production. Then he had the body of work to get paid.

A short term deal makes sense because nobody knows what Bouma is yet. At least not as far as offensive production goes.

Edit: I just realized I basically said the same thing as Cross. I agree with him

[cross16]

People are speaking like giving Bouma a short term contract is an insult. It is what he and his agent are going to want.

When you look at the body of work no team is able to pay him big dollars in a moderately termed contract. Even if he was a UFA. And he is an RFA. He hasn't earned it based on one season of production.

If he was to get a term contract it will be at a low dollar amount. Why would he want that? Better to take a 1 year deal and prove he can duplicate his production. Then he had the body of work to get paid.

A short term deal makes sense because nobody knows what Bouma is yet. At least not as far as offensive production goes.

Edit: I just realized I basically said the same thing as Cross. I agree with him

Well you also said it better so kudos!

[StarkRaving]

Has there been any news at all about the nature of his injury or how much longer he's expected to be out?  I know they've said he's day-to-day, but there's been precious little news beyond that.  Sure could use him in the playoffs.  (That said, Ferland did his level best to pick up the slack)

[MAC331]

Ferland and Bennett were awesome for setting some tone for us out there last night.