ABC923 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 So I know Seto is the goat on the team right now, but I'm curious if anyone has any insights into this. Sure, he only had the one great season scoring 31 goals and 65 points, but other than last year he has either been a 20 goal scorer or on pace to be if he played a full season. So what's the deal? He's still young (27), had a promising start to his career, and by all rights should be a career 20 goal, 40 point scorer. I notice he only has one (almost) full 81 game season, so presumably he has had some injuries. Is that what happened? I never followed the guys career, so it just seems odd to me that his production would fall off the map so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 The NHL is a very fickle business. It can fluctuate between "what have you done for me lately?" all the way to "we know you're gonna be a star one day", and all points in between. In my opinion, Gooch is in the "what have you done for me lately" doghouse. His lack of production last year (after the promising year before that), coupled with the fact that nobody appeared to want him, or at least was falling all over themselves to sign him, kind of left a sour taste in everyone's mouth, and of course we know that that is how speculation and rumours start (right or wrong). The Flames, last season, surprised everyone (including their fans) with their work ethic, a great team cohesiveness and *consistent* desire to compete that hadn't been seen in these parts for a very long time, and seemingly demonstrating or epitomizing how a rebuild should be done (remember, last year was the first "official" year of the rebuild). More and more hope and optimism were instilled in the fanbase with each passing game, despite the outcome. The future was finally looking positive for the Flames. So.....insert into all this positivity and happiness in Flame-land, a player who: nobody appeared to want didn't appear to be interested in making a person effort (rumours about his physical conditioning were swirling) failed to build on a previous positive season ...and you instantly become the focal point of derision. "Why are you here?"...."Why would management want to add someone like this to this great thing we've got going?"....almost literally the fly in the soup. And of course, with over 19,000 eyes scrutinizing your every breath on the ice at home (not to mention the millions.....and MILLIONS of The Rock's fans......*ahem*....sorry, got carried away there for a second), he's going to feel the pressure, which ultimately leads to screw-ups, mistakes, and a feeling like the mountain is too big to climb. The self-doubt creeps in, and soon (very soon), every little mistake you ends up validating the feelings of the fans that you were a mistake. This adds more pressure, which leads to more mistakes, etc etc ad nauseam. Long story short: he didn't do himself any favours last season, and he came into an incredibly difficult situation to attempt to turn things around for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 "Kulstad - Resident Cat Wrangler" Did they tell you that the cats would be in a hurricane when they offered you the job? Seriously, you're doing a great job here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 The NHL is a very fickle business. It can fluctuate between "what have you done for me lately?" all the way to "we know you're gonna be a star one day", and all points in between. In my opinion, Gooch is in the "what have you done for me lately" doghouse. His lack of production last year (after the promising year before that), coupled with the fact that nobody appeared to want him, or at least was falling all over themselves to sign him, kind of left a sour taste in everyone's mouth, and of course we know that that is how speculation and rumours start (right or wrong). The Flames, last season, surprised everyone (including their fans) with their work ethic, a great team cohesiveness and *consistent* desire to compete that hadn't been seen in these parts for a very long time, and seemingly demonstrating or epitomizing how a rebuild should be done (remember, last year was the first "official" year of the rebuild). More and more hope and optimism were instilled in the fanbase with each passing game, despite the outcome. The future was finally looking positive for the Flames. So.....insert into all this positivity and happiness in Flame-land, a player who: nobody appeared to want didn't appear to be interested in making a person effort (rumours about his physical conditioning were swirling) failed to build on a previous positive season ...and you instantly become the focal point of derision. "Why are you here?"...."Why would management want to add someone like this to this great thing we've got going?"....almost literally the fly in the soup. And of course, with over 19,000 eyes scrutinizing your every breath on the ice at home (not to mention the millions.....and MILLIONS of The Rock's fans......*ahem*....sorry, got carried away there for a second), he's going to feel the pressure, which ultimately leads to screw-ups, mistakes, and a feeling like the mountain is too big to climb. The self-doubt creeps in, and soon (very soon), every little mistake you ends up validating the feelings of the fans that you were a mistake. This adds more pressure, which leads to more mistakes, etc etc ad nauseam. Long story short: he didn't do himself any favours last season, and he came into an incredibly difficult situation to attempt to turn things around for himself. Very well put. I feel like the conditioning was there, the effort was there, but the brain was one step behind the Flames style of play. He doesn't appear to fit the Flames' positioning. On entries, he passes ahead or behind, on zone work, he seems to be in the wrong play to be open. He's like a prospect or vet from another system that can't learn a new system. Maybe if he had a center like Jumbo Joe drawing all the attention, he could slip into the slot and one-time it. We just aren't built that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri1ickshot Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Very well put. I feel like the conditioning was there, the effort was there, but the brain was one step behind the Flames style of play. He doesn't appear to fit the Flames' positioning. On entries, he passes ahead or behind, on zone work, he seems to be in the wrong play to be open. He's like a prospect or vet from another system that can't learn a new system. Maybe if he had a center like Jumbo Joe drawing all the attention, he could slip into the slot and one-time it. We just aren't built that way. If Jumbo Joe is all he need to get going, we should wait for Joe Colborne to get healthy and put them in a line together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 If Jumbo Joe is all he need to get going, we should wait for Joe Colborne to get healthy and put them in a line together. If we had Jumbo waiting in the wings, we could wait it out. But we don't. I don't know that Colborne would ever compare to that. I'll admit I was a fan of his when he was still on the Sharks. If we had signed him instead of Minny, he may have adapted and carved out a good career here. Or not. I would like him to get waived/assigned to the AHL to see what is left of the player. He may need a full season in the AHL and come out of it with a 2-way contract for next year. Or he could get claimed and succeed. Others may disagree, but right now that may the be the best thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 As some might remember the best thing I had to say about the signing was that @ least it was an inexpensive contract. After watching him last year I had/have 0 confidence in him. He's 1 of those frustrating players where you know he has the talent (shows in short bursts) but seems to lack the drive. I'd love to see him become what was hoped for after 2008-09 but since then 3 teams (Sharks, Wild & Jets) gave up of him leading to few offers as UFA. A few players have discovered that drive as they neared 30 so hopefully he starts kicking it into high gear each & every game. I won't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I hated the contract the second it was signed. He has done nothing to change my mind. That pretty much sums up his situation. He earned a reputation. It's his job to right the ship. He hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubblejumper1 Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 What happened to Setoguchi? The same thinig that happened to Anson Carter, Taylor Pyatt and Alex Burrows. These guys were all goal scorers when they played with the Sedins and then struggled to score when they were put on a line with less talented players. Setoguchi was tapping pucks into empty nets playing with Joe Thornton and Dany Heatley. Since he has had less talented linemates he has struggled to score. For Setoguchi to start scoring in Calgary, all the Flames need to do is: 1. Build a time machine. 2. Bring back Fleury in his prime. 3. Bring back Iginla in his prime. 4. Send out a Fleury/Iginla/Setoguchi line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 If we had Jumbo waiting in the wings, we could wait it out. But we don't. I don't know that Colborne would ever compare to that. I'll admit I was a fan of his when he was still on the Sharks. If we had signed him instead of Minny, he may have adapted and carved out a good career here. Or not. I would like him to get waived/assigned to the AHL to see what is left of the player. He may need a full season in the AHL and come out of it with a 2-way contract for next year. Or he could get claimed and succeed. Others may disagree, but right now that may the be the best thing to do. I agree with this. I would have to say he passes waivers, if Rene Bourque cleared, so will Seto. If he can look at this as taken a step back to make two steps forward, it could reboot his career. A demotion may go the other way or it may be his demise, depends on how he rises to the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree with this. I would have to say he passes waivers, if Rene Bourque cleared, so will Seto. If he can look at this as taken a step back to make two steps forward, it could reboot his career. A demotion may go the other way or it may be his demise, depends on how he rises to the challenge. If the last couple of seasons weren't enough to get him motivated I am not sure anything will. He signed a one year contract for less then a million and has been a healthy scratch despite all of the injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 The NHL is a very fickle business. It can fluctuate between "what have you done for me lately?" all the way to "we know you're gonna be a star one day", and all points in between. In my opinion, Gooch is in the "what have you done for me lately" doghouse. His lack of production last year (after the promising year before that), coupled with the fact that nobody appeared to want him, or at least was falling all over themselves to sign him, kind of left a sour taste in everyone's mouth, and of course we know that that is how speculation and rumours start (right or wrong). The Flames, last season, surprised everyone (including their fans) with their work ethic, a great team cohesiveness and *consistent* desire to compete that hadn't been seen in these parts for a very long time, and seemingly demonstrating or epitomizing how a rebuild should be done (remember, last year was the first "official" year of the rebuild). More and more hope and optimism were instilled in the fanbase with each passing game, despite the outcome. The future was finally looking positive for the Flames. So.....insert into all this positivity and happiness in Flame-land, a player who: nobody appeared to want didn't appear to be interested in making a person effort (rumours about his physical conditioning were swirling) failed to build on a previous positive season ...and you instantly become the focal point of derision. "Why are you here?"...."Why would management want to add someone like this to this great thing we've got going?"....almost literally the fly in the soup. And of course, with over 19,000 eyes scrutinizing your every breath on the ice at home (not to mention the millions.....and MILLIONS of The Rock's fans......*ahem*....sorry, got carried away there for a second), he's going to feel the pressure, which ultimately leads to screw-ups, mistakes, and a feeling like the mountain is too big to climb. The self-doubt creeps in, and soon (very soon), every little mistake you ends up validating the feelings of the fans that you were a mistake. This adds more pressure, which leads to more mistakes, etc etc ad nauseam. Long story short: he didn't do himself any favours last season, and he came into an incredibly difficult situation to attempt to turn things around for himself. I think you're taking a bit of license here. He hasn't been a good addition, is the long and short of it. We had better options straight out of camp. What happened to Devin? A lot of young, hungry kids. We already have better options.... in a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesJohnnyHockey Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree with this. I would have to say he passes waivers, if Rene Bourque cleared, so will Seto. If he can look at this as taken a step back to make two steps forward, it could reboot his career. A demotion may go the other way or it may be his demise, depends on how he rises to the challenge. i would disagree, i think he would get claimed. The only reason Bourque cleared was because of his 3.33 million cap hit. Seto is a cheap depth option for a team like the Jackets or Canes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 All the more reason to put him on waivers. Even on this decimated injury plagued lineup, I don't see him playing another shift for this team. i would disagree, i think he would get claimed. The only reason Bourque cleared was because of his 3.33 million cap hit. Seto is a cheap depth option for a team like the Jackets or Canes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri1ickshot Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't see why having a depth guy is a problem. Injuries do happen and having a cheap depth guy is always good and needed especially to the impending playoff run we will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't see why having a depth guy is a problem. Injuries do happen and having a cheap depth guy is always good and needed especially to the impending playoff run we will have. There's "cheap depth", and there's "good and cheap depth". Gooch is not "good and cheap", at least not on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't see why having a depth guy is a problem. Injuries do happen and having a cheap depth guy is always good and needed especially to the impending playoff run we will have. If roster space isn't an issue then I agree with you. Having a veteran in your back pocket isn't a bad thing. Plus, you can park Setoguchi on the bench with no remorse while parking a rookie doesn't make any sense. The rookie has to play. But roster space is an issue. At least if we ever get healthy. Keeping Setoguchi means a guy like Jooris, Granlund, or Baertschi's has to go down. I don't see how you justify that. I would rather have a rotation of the 14 forward and keep one or two of those guys instead of keeping Setoguchi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swayze67 Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I think Poirier will be up soon and seto is toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosn111 Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I have no issue giving Poirier a few games to see what he can do, but right now we have enough rookies up who are playing quite well and unless another bigger name player goes down to injury, there is no room for Poirier on the big club. Ferland is very close to returning so even if Jones is out again for any period of time, they will likely slot Ferland back into the line up instead of Poirier. We can all guarantee that Setoguchi will not be back next season in the Flames organization and he may very well be on his way overseas next season if he wants to keep playing hockey as a pro. His stock has dropped so far I do not see any team taking a flyer on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toppolzer Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (not so) Fun Fact: Devin Setoguchi is the only Flames player this season to have played 10 or more games and not register a single point. He also has a team worst -7 +/-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirakzigil Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 He seems snake bitten. From the sounds of it hes working hard in practice and Hartley likes that. However at some point he needs to show results or get waived/traded so the kids can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KACaribou Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I think some of these veterans who have proven to be no better than the younguns, need to get some points so we can trade their checking from behind. Setoguchi being one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri1ickshot Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 If roster space isn't an issue then I agree with you. Having a veteran in your back pocket isn't a bad thing. Plus, you can park Setoguchi on the bench with no remorse while parking a rookie doesn't make any sense. The rookie has to play. But roster space is an issue. At least if we ever get healthy. Keeping Setoguchi means a guy like Jooris, Granlund, or Baertschi's has to go down. I don't see how you justify that. I would rather have a rotation of the 14 forward and keep one or two of those guys instead of keeping Setoguchi. You'd rather have 2 rookies from Addy sit in a bench(stop their development) over putting someone like Grats/Seto in the bench? There are spots in the roster that are meant to be in the bench and putting vets in the bench and use them when needed is better than putting kids from Addy in the bench and play once in a while. That's bad for their development. Much better to call up kids in Addy if there are roster spots where they can play most games and not just roster spots that are meant to be sit in the bench. Waiving/trading both Grats and Seto just means there are 2 more spots for the bench in Calgary and having our prospects come up to be benched most games and play a game every now and then is really bad for their development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 They can rotate three or four of the kids. Sitting one of four games isn't going to hurt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Setoguchi was overtly overcome by Jooris in camp, without a doubt. Jooris got demoted. That was silly. Josh wanted it, earned it, and continues to do so. He's been equally effective since camp. My only wonder is will Ferland want it more than Seto too? At which point I'd release him and cut my meager loss. He's not a depth player if he can't even stay atop of the depth...he's not in our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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