cross16 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 17 hours ago, jjgallow said: You make a good point, but I don't know why you're still focusing on the goalies, even in the defence thread. There are more Pertinent points to be made, imho, in this thread and topic. Not sure how describing how I think the defence playing better is helping the goalies is focussing on the goalies but to each his own i guess. Please do add the more "pertinent" points to the discussion. 17 hours ago, jjgallow said: I'm not able to translate that to not caring about shots against, and seeing shots for as the defensive problem. We have Numerous defensive issues and this interpretation does not compute for me, imho. The comment was in reference to the Flames being outshot recently and the reason for that. Did not suggest that they should care less or more about shots against, jsut that they are getting outshot more because of what they arn't generating and less becuae they are giving up too many shots against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Just to try to turn the corner a bit, studying the appeal of shot-blocking seems to be all the rage now. Kiprusoff used to be a "get out of the way" goalie and we seemed to jump in front of everything since his departure. I'm all for it from the point, but below the hashmarks to me is risky, let your goalie see it. I know it isn't so black-and-white but... Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 1 minute ago, conundrumed said: Just to try to turn the corner a bit, studying the appeal of shot-blocking seems to be all the rage now. Kiprusoff used to be a "get out of the way" goalie and we seemed to jump in front of everything since his departure. I'm all for it from the point, but below the hashmarks to me is risky, let your goalie see it. I know it isn't so black-and-white but... Thoughts? I agree. I don't mind a forward getting down to block a shot but D should be boxing out and getting out the way. The vast majority of point shots a goalie sees he will stop and I think when you heavily block shots you actually end up creating more scoring opporutnities due to boucnes that are tougher on goalies to recover from. You need to block shots, but block them strategically IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 1 hour ago, cross16 said: I agree. I don't mind a forward getting down to block a shot but D should be boxing out and getting out the way. The vast majority of point shots a goalie sees he will stop and I think when you heavily block shots you actually end up creating more scoring opporutnities due to boucnes that are tougher on goalies to recover from. You need to block shots, but block them strategically IMO A couple of goals in recent memory have been exactly because the D-man tries to get in the lane or is on the wrong side of a player allowing them position. I can recall two PP goals against that were from Elliott being screened by the D-man, with little to no chance of seeing. A few more have deflected off the D-man's body or stick and otherwise would have been stopped. I would be happy if we could clean up the PK and get to around 84%. I know we are taking the 2nd most amount in the NHL right now, and that needs to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 1 hour ago, cross16 said: I agree. I don't mind a forward getting down to block a shot but D should be boxing out and getting out the way. The vast majority of point shots a goalie sees he will stop and I think when you heavily block shots you actually end up creating more scoring opporutnities due to boucnes that are tougher on goalies to recover from. You need to block shots, but block them strategically IMO My next question would be, do we have enough dmen that know how to box out effectively? It seems like most of our dmen struggle with it, is it a need to simplify the D play and get better via the basics? And is it just me, or are we running a 1-2-1 diamond on the PK? I keep thinking we're giving too much time and space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 28 minutes ago, conundrumed said: My next question would be, do we have enough dmen that know how to box out effectively? It seems like most of our dmen struggle with it, is it a need to simplify the D play and get better via the basics? And is it just me, or are we running a 1-2-1 diamond on the PK? I keep thinking we're giving too much time and space. I would say that at times we are closing the gap better than other times. I have seen some improvement on the other teams entering the zone on a PP rush. Other times, I have noticed that the defenseman has the gap well covered, but then will back off into the center of the D-zone, giving more space to the player coming in. That happens when there is a 2nd player covering the other side. Seems like they still are figuring out some part of the system. Other teams are obviously looking at films and looking to exploit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 http://flamesnation.ca/2016/11/1/who-s-better-at-making-defensive-pairings-glen-gulutzan-or-dice Apparantly some people think our D pairings are garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 30 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: http://flamesnation.ca/2016/11/1/who-s-better-at-making-defensive-pairings-glen-gulutzan-or-dice Apparantly some people think our D pairings are garbage. That's only one person. I think the only difference between him and anyone else is a pack of matches and a few bucks in gasoline... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 39 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: http://flamesnation.ca/2016/11/1/who-s-better-at-making-defensive-pairings-glen-gulutzan-or-dice Apparantly some people think our D pairings are garbage. That article is garbage. I have yet to find anything worth reading on that website. They are too stuck on analytics. I am fine with using analytics, just don't rely on it, it's just part of the information gathering process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 42 minutes ago, JTech780 said: That article is garbage. I have yet to find anything worth reading on that website. They are too stuck on analytics. I am fine with using analytics, just don't rely on it, it's just part of the information gathering process. I'm sure there will be more adjustments yet but people have to stop flipping out over GG trying different pairings now, it is the only way to apply his own thinking to situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Posted this in the GDT, bit I'll add it here too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: That's only one person. I think the only difference between him and anyone else is a pack of matches and a few bucks in gasoline... Oh I was reading the comments on the post. as Mac said I'm surprised how many people are hating on GG so early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Carty said: Posted this in the GDT, bit I'll add it here too... Mr. Personality is displeased? Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Carty said: Posted this in the GDT, bit I'll add it here too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 1 minute ago, JTech780 said: What else would you expect Wideman to say when asked about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Can't stand the guy. But I'm not allowed to "attack a player". So I'll just say I can't stand him and hopefully that's an acceptable thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 47 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Can't stand the guy. But I'm not allowed to "attack a player". So I'll just say I can't stand him and hopefully that's an acceptable thing to say. Im not a huge wideman fan either, he just seems like a spoiled nhler wondering if it has anything to do with him not being on the PP tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Wideman needs to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 2 hours ago, MAC331 said: Wideman needs to go That is the simple answer. Every game he plays makes him look like a liability. I'm not in favor of the current pairs. Brodie is not the same. Gio is like a fish out of water. They were one of the best pairs in the NHL because of the sum of the parts being better as a whole. Gio-Brodie Jokipakka-Hamilton Kulak/Wideman/Engelland Alternate Wideman and Kulak in and out of the lineup. Add Engelland into the mix, but not as frequent. I care not about return on Wideman. Play him if he helps you win. I would be comforatble with Engelland playing 3rd pair minutes and give him some PK time. As it stands now, he is playing the most PK minutes, or at least it was that way recently. That has to change whether you think he is a top 4D or a bottom pair D. We are going to live and die with Gio-Brodie-Hamilton, so play them as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Our defense is just a couple grades above a garbage fire this year. We need to seriously retool it. When Engelland is your number 3 guy, there is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, ABC923 said: Our defense is just a couple grades above a garbage fire this year. We need to seriously retool it. When Engelland is your number 3 guy, there is a problem. Is he the number 3 though? Who do you put in for retooling anyway? Tyspoon and kulak are the only two who spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Based on overall ice time, Engelland is our number 3 defenseman. In terms of average ice time, our depth chart goes like this: Gio-Brodie-Wideman-Engelland-Hamilton-Jokipakka-Kulak-Grossman. I personally rank Engelland ahead of Wideman because he plays every game, Wideman does not. Hamilton is probably our number 4 at the moment, but splits his time between our middle and bottom pairing. As for retooling, I think that ship has sailed for this year. Next season we have Wideman, Engelland, Grossman all finished, so that in itself provides some opportunity to retool. Hopefully by then Kulak will have emerged fully. I would seriously consider trading Giordano if possible, as I think his value is still pretty high. I don't want to trade Brodie, and I think we would not get good value from trading Hamilton. Shattenkirk is a free agent next season, and while I would be shocked if we landed him we should at least make a pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 6 hours ago, ABC923 said: I would seriously consider trading Giordano if possible, as I think his value is still pretty high. I don't want to trade Brodie, and I think we would not get good value from trading Hamilton. Agreed here. We signed Gio knowing he has about 3 years of prime left and if he is going to waste 2 of them on non playoff years, then trade him. If we act now before his value plummets, then we can still get something good for him. Maybe we can get Trouba+ for Giordano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 The coaches want pairings that have one top Defenseman on each pairing. GG wants to rotate the defensive pairings especially when on the road. Lazy way to coach where he does not have to worry about matching pairings. I liken this to averaging the pairings. He will end up getting average defensive results. Brodie told to play on the side he is not comfortable playing. The coaches however say he should be better on his natural side when he has been playing on the opposite side for a few years now. Personally I think the coaches are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and it is not working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 6 hours ago, ABC923 said: Based on overall ice time, Engelland is our number 3 defenseman. In terms of average ice time, our depth chart goes like this: Gio-Brodie-Wideman-Engelland-Hamilton-Jokipakka-Kulak-Grossman. I personally rank Engelland ahead of Wideman because he plays every game, Wideman does not. Hamilton is probably our number 4 at the moment, but splits his time between our middle and bottom pairing. As for retooling, I think that ship has sailed for this year. Next season we have Wideman, Engelland, Grossman all finished, so that in itself provides some opportunity to retool. Hopefully by then Kulak will have emerged fully. I would seriously consider trading Giordano if possible, as I think his value is still pretty high. I don't want to trade Brodie, and I think we would not get good value from trading Hamilton. Shattenkirk is a free agent next season, and while I would be shocked if we landed him we should at least make a pitch. Whats wrong with our D exactly? Im really tired of people saying player X or person Y is the problem. Our D has looked good, its not like we are having loads of breakdowns. People need to stop trying to fix a problem that isent there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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