Flames Defense

[cccsberg]

Last night's D with Nakladal and Wotherspoon in, and Smid, Russell and Wideman out looked the best I've seen in a long while for the Flames.  It will be interesting to see if it continues against Anaheim and the LAK, both of whom are much tougher, bigger and way more physical than Vancouver.  It will be a good test.

[travel_dude]

Last night's D with Nakladal and Wotherspoon in, and Smid, Russell and Wideman out looked the best I've seen in a long while for the Flames.  It will be interesting to see if it continues against Anaheim and the LAK, both of whom are much tougher, bigger and way more physical than Vancouver.  It will be a good test.

 

I'm not concerned with Spoon and The Nak against the Ducks.  Both play a physical game and play relatively quiet, low event defense.  Nak has a bigger tendency to jump up, but doesn't get burned easily.  He's not like Russell getting push off or resorting to the "Kesler Dive" to stop a play.

 

The tougher part will be the top line playing better defensively.  They have shown they can score against the Ducks, but power vs power, they can't stop Perry or Getzlaf.  Johnny is sneaky, Monahan has some grit, but Hudler doesn't have the strength to battle for pucks.  They are fine in the O-zone, but really need a bigger player in the D-zone.

[420since1974]

Nakladal & Wotherspoon will both occasionally get beat to the outside as they adjust to the speed of the NHL.

 

But, they do add a greater physical presence along the boards and in front of our goal.

 

I think they each had two solid hits last game.

[xstrike]

So Gio has a career high 15 goals now. Pretty darn good.

[conundrumed]

I think it's safe to say we're paying Hamilton on futures right now.

Seeing as this is a defence thread...

If Chychrun is available at our pick, should we take him?

I'm guessing he may be.

Do we "bpa" or draft for sized wingers, errumm, wants?

[rickross]

I think it's still smart to draft the BPA, especially this early in the rebuild. Hamilton has been inconsistent this season, not saying he's played poorly but I'm still trying to determine his value after close to 60 games played. So far Ive been pretty pleased with T.Wotherdpoon and Nakladal

[xstrike]

I think it's still smart to draft the BPA, especially this early in the rebuild. Hamilton has been inconsistent this season, not saying he's played poorly but I'm still trying to determine his value after close to 60 games played. So far Ive been pretty pleased with T.Wotherdpoon and Nakladal

I don't think Hamilton's been inconsistent. He was bad early in the year consistently and now that he's used to the system, he's been consistently good.

[darth_henning]

Wotherspoon and Nakladal have looked good with limited minutes. If we could clear out Smid, Engellend and Wideman for next year, I'd feel comfortable (though not thrilled) with them as the bottom pair. 

 

Given that Kulak is also close that gives us good options. Only question is if any could manage top 4 duties, and right now I lean towards no. 

 

Brodie did get absolutely ripped for one of the goals tonight, but that was uncharacteristic. 

[rickross]

I don't think Hamilton's been inconsistent. He was bad early in the year consistently and now that he's used to the system, he's been consistently good.

Let's agree Hanmys been consistently inconsistent or inconsistently consistent lol. I wasn't knocking his play just saying I'm still figuring out his true value and role...he's been much improved since the start of the year. I still trust Brodie and Gio over him tho but Hammys still so young. Flames were smart to invest in a young D corps early on, we should be reaping those benefits in a few short years

[cross16]

In regards to Dougie Hamilton look at what he has quietly accomplisehd this year:

 

He is 34th in points for NHL dman. Thats 34th in the entire league.

He is tied for 16th in Goals. 

Tied for 7th in GWG

Post All-Star break he is tied for 13 in the League for Points. Tied for 7th in Goals

 

he is 60th in TOI.

 

When you factor in it took him just over a month to get comfortable and he only recently got heavy PP time, thats pretty remarkable IMO. He's got some warts defensivly for sure, but at 22 years old to accomplish that in his 4th season in the league and first with a new team is pretty awesome IMO. 

[travel_dude]

In regards to Dougie Hamilton look at what he has quietly accomplisehd this year:

 

He is 34th in points for NHL dman. Thats 34th in the entire league.

He is tied for 16th in Goals. 

Tied for 7th in GWG

Post All-Star break he is tied for 13 in the League for Points. Tied for 7th in Goals

 

he is 60th in TOI.

 

When you factor in it took him just over a month to get comfortable and he only recently got heavy PP time, thats pretty remarkable IMO. He's got some warts defensivly for sure, but at 22 years old to accomplish that in his 4th season in the league and first with a new team is pretty awesome IMO. 

 

 

There was a long stretch where he didn't get a sniff of PP time.  He plays no more than 18 minutes a game, possibly breaking 20 whenever we a down a player.

[The_People1]

In regards to Dougie Hamilton look at what he has quietly accomplisehd this year:

 

He is 34th in points for NHL dman. Thats 34th in the entire league.

He is tied for 16th in Goals. 

Tied for 7th in GWG

Post All-Star break he is tied for 13 in the League for Points. Tied for 7th in Goals

 

he is 60th in TOI.

 

When you factor in it took him just over a month to get comfortable and he only recently got heavy PP time, thats pretty remarkable IMO. He's got some warts defensivly for sure, but at 22 years old to accomplish that in his 4th season in the league and first with a new team is pretty awesome IMO. 

 

Ya but that one play against the Ducks last night.  He was first into the corner for a loose puck by two full strides but took too long deciding what to do and didn't protect the puck at all in the process.  The puck was stolen from him by a simple reach of the stick and then one quick centering pass later, the puck was in our night.  The Ducks player went into the corner and took the puck from him as if he wasn't even there.

 

I expect that kind of defending from Nakladal or Wotherspoon but not Hamilton.

[cross16]

Ya but that one play against the Ducks last night.  He was first into the corner for a loose puck by two full strides but took too long deciding what to do and didn't protect the puck at all in the process.  The puck was stolen from him by a simple reach of the stick and then one quick centering pass later, the puck was in our night.  The Ducks player went into the corner and took the puck from him as if he wasn't even there.

 

I expect that kind of defending from Nakladal or Wotherspoon but not Hamilton.

 

You do know that Hamilton is younger than both of them though right?

 

Not a great play and a mis read for sure. Hamilton went to play the body and underestimated the position and quickness of the Ducks player. Bad play, but a very, very ,very simple correction that I expect him to learn from. 

 

As bad a play as it was, it was equally as bad a save attempt by Hiller. 

[travel_dude]

You do know that Hamilton is younger than both of them though right?

 

Not a great play and a mis read for sure. Hamilton went to play the body and underestimated the position and quickness of the Ducks player. Bad play, but a very, very ,very simple correction that I expect him to learn from. 

 

As bad a play as it was, it was equally as bad a save attempt by Hiller. 

 

Gio and Brodie have both made much bigger mistakes.  I don't call either of them inconsistent.  If anything, they consistently bring you solid play, offset by the occasional flub.  The OT goal against Chicago is that type of flub that every defender makes. Engelland's losing the puck to Kessler is more grievous, since he isn't know for being a great puck handler, but I still think Hiller being on his knees is the the reason that was a goal.  Ramo wouldn't have been as far in the crease.  Miller would have poke checked the puck or double stacked farther out.  There were far too many options for Kessler to score.  He chose one that he knew was an easy goal.

[The_People1]

You do know that Hamilton is younger than both of them though right?

 

Not a great play and a mis read for sure. Hamilton went to play the body and underestimated the position and quickness of the Ducks player. Bad play, but a very, very ,very simple correction that I expect him to learn from. 

 

As bad a play as it was, it was equally as bad a save attempt by Hiller. 

 

NHL experience should trump age.

 

Ya, clearly he was playing it like he was expecting a big hit coming due to the way his body was positioned.  It looked so bad because the hit never came and the Ducks player (forgot who it was), just tapped the puck out of his feet, stole it, and centered it for a goal.  Hamilton helped to make it look so easy.

[cross16]

NHL experience should trump age.

 

Ya, clearly he was playing it like he was expecting a big hit coming due to the way his body was positioned.  It looked so bad because the hit never came and the Ducks player (forgot who it was), just tapped the puck out of his feet, stole it, and centered it for a goal.  Hamilton helped to make it look so easy.

 

to a point yes, but also keep in mind Hamilton only has 256 GP in the NHL. This is part of the point I am trying to make is that people act like Hamilton is a veteran and forget that he is not. 22 year old dman with less than 300 GPs at the NHL level are going to make mistakes but right now I think you are seeing that his upside offensivly is outweighing the mistakes he is making.

 

It look much worse that it was because the puck went in which is my point about goaltending. I think the play itself was a bad read but bad reads happen by dman all the time, even Gio/Brodie so I don't view it a as a huge error. He is more prone to them than Gio/Brodie of course (see Canuck game and his turnover to Virtanen) but they are correctable. I'll be more concerend as his grows and is still making the same mistakes then I am right now. 

[jjgallow]

to a point yes, but also keep in mind Hamilton only has 256 GP in the NHL. This is part of the point I am trying to make is that people act like Hamilton is a veteran and forget that he is not. 22 year old dman with less than 300 GPs at the NHL level are going to make mistakes but right now I think you are seeing that his upside offensivly is outweighing the mistakes he is making.

 

It look much worse that it was because the puck went in which is my point about goaltending. I think the play itself was a bad read but bad reads happen by dman all the time, even Gio/Brodie so I don't view it a as a huge error. He is more prone to them than Gio/Brodie of course (see Canuck game and his turnover to Virtanen) but they are correctable. I'll be more concerend as his grows and is still making the same mistakes then I am right now. 

 

Hamilton is a bright spot in this organization on it's weakest position, Defence.  We all act like it's goaltending, and I'll admit, it's fun to play along.  

 

But we lack solid D.  And I don't mean D that are good on the powerplay.  

 

I mean,  we lack Defensemen.

 

Hamilton isn't there yet, but he will get there.

 

TJ Brodie, is sorta there.  More offense than defense.  But ok defense.  

 

And...that's it.

 

Nobody else under 25 really worth...mentioning.

 

 

Period.

 

end of story.

[rickross]

Brought him up in another thread but what's everyone's take on Ryan Culkin? He was at one point quite high up on the player progression list but just can't stay healthy. Here's hoping he turns out to be another piece to this core

[xstrike]

It has been awhile since we posted here. Some think our goaltending is the problem others think something else or all encompassing.

Now, on Flames Overtime last night after the game, a caller named Robert was irate about our team structure, particularly the D. The fact that our coaches and players continue to say, we gave them too many goals. Untimely Giveaways kill us, overall team defence kills us.

Apparently we have, as an accumulation on paper, we have one of the best D corps in the league. How can we say that when most nights we let in more goals than we score? Does it have more to do with the team game or with the defence? I think goaltending is a part of it, but not the only thing.

Robert is... often irate about one thing or another. I tend to disagree with him on most points. If nothing else though, he has enough passion for the team to be irate on calls to Fan960.

 

Speaking of... do the Oilers have an "overtime" call-in show? If they did, it probably got scraped some time ago because it was a negativity fest. Can you imagine callers phoning in about jerseys being thrown to the ice and such?

[jjgallow]

Brought him up in another thread but what's everyone's take on Ryan Culkin? He was at one point quite high up on the player progression list but just can't stay healthy. Here's hoping he turns out to be another piece to this core

 

He joins a long list of prospects that seemed promising last year, and took a big step backwards this year.  Difficult to explain.  

[kehatch]

Hamilton is a bright spot in this organization on it's weakest position, Defence. We all act like it's goaltending, and I'll admit, it's fun to play along.

But we lack solid D. And I don't mean D that are good on the powerplay.

I mean, we lack Defensemen.

Hamilton isn't there yet, but he will get there.

TJ Brodie, is sorta there. More offense than defense. But ok defense.

And...that's it.

Nobody else under 25 really worth...mentioning.

Period.

end of story.

Tough to take you seriously when you suggest that Brodie is 'sorta' there and only consider players 25 or under.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Hamilton is a bright spot in this organization on it's weakest position, Defence.  We all act like it's goaltending, and I'll admit, it's fun to play along.  

 

But we lack solid D.  And I don't mean D that are good on the powerplay.  

 

I mean,  we lack Defensemen.

 

Hamilton isn't there yet, but he will get there.

 

TJ Brodie, is sorta there.  More offense than defense.  But ok defense.  

 

And...that's it.

 

Nobody else under 25 really worth...mentioning.

 

 

Period.

 

end of story.

... as kehatch said im not sure how to take that post. I dont see how you can see brodie as sorta there.

 

Prospect wise we have loads of players under 25 worth mentioning as well. 

[MAC331]

Only two games but I like what I have seen from Wotherspoon so far, solid aggressive play by him. Also like what I have seen from Nakladal.

[The_People1]

Only two games but I like what I have seen from Wotherspoon so far, solid aggressive play by him. Also like what I have seen from Nakladal.

 

Agreed. I must say Wotherspoon looks much improved, much steadier, and plays with a purpose.  The last time we saw him in the NHL, he was too robotic, too mundane, and too timid.  He looks more aggressive now and much more assertive.  He's playing like he wants to be noticed now as opposed to the past where he's just doing the basics and avoiding mistakes.

 

I mean, he still lacks tools for overall versatility but he's looking like a serviceable 6/7th Dman moving forward.

[420since1974]

The biggest change that I see in Wotherspoon in he is not playing as tentatively.

 

His decision making is quicker.