Official Sam Bennett Discussion Thread

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

Of course, I'm cherry picking your comments a bit here, so sorry for that.   But it is honestly difficult to follow a train of thought with you on this when your opinion seems to change midstream.    I'm not sure if you're saying Pasternak was rushed, or if you're saying that's silly.    Same with Draisaitl.    

 

I do know this, there's nothing silly about thinking a player was rushed.  It is extremely common and extremely detrimental and we need not look any further than the Oilers, a place where the Draisaitl example is just he tip of the iceburg.

 

IMHO Pasternak and Draisaitl were the "lucky ones" of rushed players.   They both struggled, there was a point that some thought Draisaitl had been ruined.  But they both came back from it.  Many Don't.

 

Not all players come back from it.   But to be honest, I think most on here are actually under-selling Bennett.  I believe he's a tremendous talent, and I think his current performance is a result of rushing him back from Extremely serious injury to the NHL at an inappropriate age.    That's like a double-wammy, and that's why he's struggling to come back from it more than Draisaitl or Pasternak (neither of which have his raw abilities, if I can be blunt).   It should be a top priority of the Flames to get him where he needs to be.  Which is probably around double the production he has now.

 

Ryan Nugent Hopkins.

There are different examples. For instance the Jets went off the board taking Scheifele when the media choice was Couts, let him grow in the OHL for 2 more years, get good time with TC & then not rush him to 1C. Now he's a top center.

Monahan was a different story as he was owned by a bad junior team so had nothing to learn there. Being with the Flames starting with a limited role was probably best. I'd say the same about Draisaitl but the Oilers engineered a trade sending him from a bad PA team to Kelowna.

RNH, Hall, Yak, Gagner & many others were rushed by a team that figured a few good players that could score would give their fans false hope. Some are bouncing back but not to the degree they'll be what they could have been.

Bennett is rather unique due to his injury/surgery. He was picked from a good team & after surgery kept him to absorb the NHL way. When healed he got to join his junior team until eliminated & brought him back. Another year on a good Kingston team playing top line would have probably been better for developement then what we see since Calgary doesn't seem to know where to play him.

 

But these comments are easy as I have the benifit of hindsight. If I was the GM I'm not sure what I would have done. Often your job depends on icing the best possible team @ that given moment since by the time the player is ready your shelf life might have expired. Easy to say do what's best for the team like "draft & develope" but unless management is clear they'll give you that time a GM is like a player with little time left on the contract trying to keep his job.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Lol. How about Dylan Larkin?

A realistic comparable...

 

True.   And very uncharacteristic of Detroit, to be honest.  At least the Detroit I remember.

[jjgallow]

20 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

But these comments are easy as I have the benifit of hindsight. If I was the GM I'm not sure what I would have done. Often your job depends on icing the best possible team @ that given moment

 

True on the hindsight.  And on the pressure on the GM.  That's why I think it's so important to have ownership which has a clue, at a high level.   Ownership that knows how to evaluate their GM and provide them with objectives that will protect their investment for the long term.

 

Some players are just harder to know what to do with.

 

The story of Sam Bennett is certainly a unique path.   From his early childhood obesity, to becoming a champion bodybuilder and top NHL prospect, to his shoulder injury which ended his body building career, to recovering from his shoulder injury while winning gold in the Olympic hurdle, to finally reallizing his NHL dream, Sam Bennett is truly a remarkable story that just goes to show (as was pointed out earlier):   Anyone can be a top NHLer, as long as they're not rushed.

 

https://www.ashappyas.com/know/1646-guy-bullied-for-being-overweight-proves-everyone-wrong

 

http://nesn.com/2014/06/nhl-draft-prospect-sam-bennett-cant-do-a-single-pull-up-video/

 

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/sport/15434699.Basildon_hurdler_wins_in_Bahamas/?ref=rss

[travel_dude]

Not sure what you are getting at with the other Sam Bennett.  Or why you picked the story of him not doing any pullups, since he was injured at the time.  Was it because the article said that whoever drafted Bennett would need to properly develop him?  Because he couldn't do a pullup?

 

I would suggest that Bennett didn't get played with the best possible linemates during his 2 years here.  His best results were as a winger with Backlund and Frolik, where he showed some chemistry with Frolik.  Other than that, he played winger to Granlund, one of the worst faceoff guys on the team; actually the worst.  Last year it was a collection of players that were not playing well at the time or a reclamation project (Chaisson).  

 

Call it being rushed if you like.  How about played in the wrong situation.  It's almost like BT is making corrections to fix that.  Last year he fired Hartley, who was dead set against using Bennett at center.  This year BT let Chaisson walk.  Probably unrelated, but interesting in the connection to Bennett.  I'm a little reluctant to play Lazar on Bennett's RW, simply because he another project.  If the LW spot is filled with Tkachuk, it may not be a concern.   

[AlbertaBoy12]

15 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

https://www.ashappyas.com/know/1646-guy-bullied-for-being-overweight-proves-everyone-wrong

 

http://nesn.com/2014/06/nhl-draft-prospect-sam-bennett-cant-do-a-single-pull-up-video/

 

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/sport/15434699.Basildon_hurdler_wins_in_Bahamas/?ref=rss

Im a little confused if youre serious or not, because only one of those articles is about bennett from the calgary flames. I dont get if its supposed to be a joke or not.

 

That aside as TD pointed bennett has barely played with any decent line mates except backlund/frolik. Everyone needs to stop judging a player who in alot of ways has taken big steps in the NHL, and considering he has only been a NHL center for one year, I dont see the cause for alarm. 

 

 

[kehatch]

In the cap world you have to play your prospects when they are ready to play. Impactful ELCs can make the difference. 

 

Bennett passed the test. He had a good rookie season and looked ready to take the next step. He wasn't rushed. 

[conundrumed]

39 minutes ago, kehatch said:

In the cap world you have to play your prospects when they are ready to play. Impactful ELCs can make the difference. 

 

Bennett passed the test. He had a good rookie season and looked ready to take the next step. He wasn't rushed. 

But how many chin-ups can he do? lol

All kidding aside, we're making a lot of a-do about nothing.

A 3 yr 3mil bridge is going to cost us a lot more in 3 years. I'm sold on that.

For me, at worst, he'll top out as a very good 2C.

But let's cut to the chase, Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland is the line. Nobody is "driving" a line like that, and if anyone is, it's Bennett.

Tkachuk and Bennett will both bug the bejesus out of you, so you wanna fight, say hello to Ferland.

That's a tough line and all 3 can create space.

Smells like 60 goals to me, most of them the dirty one's that win games.

Bennett is the least of my worries. How many times do I have to see him 1-on-3 trying to hold up waiting for linemates?

JG works well with Bennett, imho. JG is a good skater.

Bennett has been "non-committal", shall we call his play? He needs like-minded linemates to get up there with him.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

But let's cut to the chase, Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland is the line. Nobody is "driving" a line like that, and if anyone is, it's Bennett.

Tkachuk and Bennett will both bug the bejesus out of you, so you wanna fight, say hello to Ferland.

That's a tough line and all 3 can create space.

Smells like 60 goals to me, most of them the dirty one's that win games.

 

Ok, so that's one line figured out. LOL

Trying to find the best for the rest is troublesome.  Who do you use on #1RW?  Backlund and Frolik can take on just about anyone and thrive.  Versteeg or Janko?  Or are you thinking a guy like Poirier could step up into that role.  His defensive game is much improved and he's kinda annoying like Bennett or Tkachuk.  Help me out with this.

 

JG-Monahan-??

??-Backs-Frolik

Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland

??-??-??

 

Here's some guys to choose from:

Versteeg, Brouwer, Stajan, Lazar, Janko, Foo, Poirier, Shinkaruk....

[conundrumed]

TD, imho we do not need a high end RW with JG-Mony. That can even be Poirier or Foo and Mony is still going to pot 30 from the slot. JG is going to be the danger, when you chase him around, you still have Monahan in the slot saying thanks.

The fun with Frolik is how smart he is. He can forecheck 1-on-3 and STILL get possession. We need to focus on what we DO have more than what we don't, imho.

Backlund- Frolik are unreal at being frivolous, I'd add Versteeg personally.

4th line, Stajan C's, because he's actually very good at it. If you add Janx, Hathaway, Brouwer, Poirier isn't going to be an issue at 8 mins/nt.

We tend to look at what we DON'T have at forward, perhaps we do have something...time will tell...

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

TD, imho we do not need a high end RW with JG-Mony. That can even be Poirier or Foo and Mony is still going to pot 30 from the slot. JG is going to be the danger, when you chase him around, you still have Monahan in the slot saying thanks.

The fun with Frolik is how smart he is. He can forecheck 1-on-3 and STILL get possession. We need to focus on what we DO have more than what we don't, imho.

Backlund- Frolik are unreal at being frivolous, I'd add Versteeg personally.

4th line, Stajan C's, because he's actually very good at it. If you add Janx, Hathaway, Brouwer, Poirier isn't going to be an issue at 8 mins/nt.

We tend to look at what we DON'T have at forward, perhaps we do have something...time will tell...

 

I would consider Stajan-Janko-Brouwer, just because Stajan would be a good ace in the hand.  Janko could well be better on the dot, since Matty gets tossed far too often.

Stajan's FO% dropped to 40% in the playoffs.  As far as top line RW, it could well be Foo.  Maybe a bit premature, but it could be a coming out party for him.  Very Hudler-esque.  LOL.  Poirier would be an interesting choice, if he can get his crap together and show what he used to be.

 

Possible top RW's:

Ferland - opens space up, fearless, has a decent shot, struggled with consistency, better at LW

Foo - playmaker with speed, tireless work ethic, not proven at the pro level, rookie

Tkachuk - top talent, playmaker, nasty, fearless, can drive play in right direction, not proven at RW

Brouwer - big body, some greasy goal potential, not brought here to be a top line RW, not a great playmaker

Lazar - RHS, great work ethic, work in progress, needs to start from square one

Poirier - fearless, drives the net, had a good shot, battling back from issues

 

I didn't add Versteeg only because he's a Swiss Army knife.  Needed elsewhere.  It's funny, but you could make the case that Foo could be as effective as Kevin Hayes was in his first year.  Sure, they are different size, but meshing with the right players can really help.       

[conundrumed]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's funny, but you could make the case that Foo could be as effective as Kevin Hayes was in his first year.  Sure, they are different size, but meshing with the right players can really help.       

Sorry to clip your post.

I said nothing about Hayes.

Again, why underestimate what we have?

We have a playoff roster imho.

Now it's just a question of how much playoff roster do we have?

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Sorry to clip your post.

I said nothing about Hayes.

Again, why underestimate what we have?

We have a playoff roster imho.

Now it's just a question of how much playoff roster do we have?

 

Just talking two college players with similar points in their final season.  Hayes had a decent rookie season.

[rickross]

Is Sam Bennett a bust??

 

Personally I don't believe he is, I agree he does need better line mates to succeed however if he falters after we extend him, how long do they wait before considering a trade? What could we possibly get in return for Sam Bennett? Is he still worth a 1st Rd pick or has his value already diminished? 

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, rickross said:

Is Sam Bennett a bust??

 

Personally I don't believe he is, I agree he does need better line mates to succeed however if he falters after we extend him, how long do they wait before considering a trade? What could we possibly get in return for Sam Bennett? Is he still worth a 1st Rd pick or has his value already diminished? 

I think we are caught in the middle of those questions and really need this season for Bennett to establish himself. Value is always in the eye of the beholder but I liked what I saw by the end of the season with Bennett.

[cccsberg]

On 2017-07-30 at 11:38 AM, travel_dude said:

 

Ok, so that's one line figured out. LOL

Trying to find the best for the rest is troublesome.  Who do you use on #1RW?  Backlund and Frolik can take on just about anyone and thrive.  Versteeg or Janko?  Or are you thinking a guy like Poirier could step up into that role.  His defensive game is much improved and he's kinda annoying like Bennett or Tkachuk.  Help me out with this.

 

JG-Monahan-??

??-Backs-Frolik

Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland

??-??-??

 

Here's some guys to choose from:

Versteeg, Brouwer, Stajan, Lazar, Janko, Foo, Poirier, Shinkaruk....

I'd keep Ferland as 1RW, but assuming he goes with Bennett, I'd go Foo, first, then Poirier if that doesn't work.  Jankowski to start with Backlund.

[AlbertaBoy12]

4 hours ago, rickross said:

Is Sam Bennett a bust??

 

Personally I don't believe he is, I agree he does need better line mates to succeed however if he falters after we extend him, how long do they wait before considering a trade? What could we possibly get in return for Sam Bennett? Is he still worth a 1st Rd pick or has his value already diminished? 

I know its summertime but this question keeps being asked, and im curious why?

 

He had a fine rookie season at center, along with a good season at the wing. Hes still young, im not sure any team looks at him as a bust right now but I guess there could be surprises. At this point I think bennett is right on track considering like I said rookie season at center( I use rookie because it was his first year at center in the show) and he showed plenty defensively, his offence was lacking but why was that you have to ask yourself.  

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I know its summertime but this question keeps being asked, and im curious why?

 

He had a fine rookie season at center, along with a good season at the wing. Hes still young, im not sure any team looks at him as a bust right now but I guess there could be surprises. At this point I think bennett is right on track considering like I said rookie season at center( I use rookie because it was his first year at center in the show) and he showed plenty defensively, his offence was lacking but why was that you have to ask yourself.  

If he's a rookie so is Eichel.

 

Most centers start on the wing on lower lines to acclimatize them to the NHL & are usually moved up to the top 6 in either capacity of wing or center after 3 seasons (abbreviated or not).

IMO the Flames got high on his potential too soon while Bennett appears to be a classic case of a player that would have benifited from more time in junior. The excuses of nothing to learn or being on a bad team weren't there so I think the Flames stunted his growth.

What he becomes now is as much on management as him. Does he become a solid bottom 6 or can he still become a top 6 while others are there needing to be outplayed to earn the spot?

Trade value is iffy as top teams will either see him as a possible replacement for 1 of their top guys if brought along & groomed or just a young depth player. Teams lower down the rung have their own picks they are big on.

It would be a mistake to trade Bennett now but I believe this coming season is the acid test as to what he becomes. The Flames are likely to give him the chance to prove he's what they (& we) believed he'd be but given that there are many kids still on their ELC making him look like an afterthought he has to prove something this year.

 

If he becomes a shutdown 3C like Couts in Philly (some see him as a bust because he doesn't put up big scoring #s without PP but is excellent on 5 vs 5) I'd see him as a top end asset. Too a lesser degree if he becomes a top 6 winger he's worth his keep.

 

Regardless, it's time for him to show what he really is.

[cross16]

38 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

If he's a rookie so is Eichel.

 

Eichel is also a special talent so that's not exactly a fair comparison. 

 

Most high picks dont get buried with plugs like Granlund, Brouwer, Chiasson and versteeg to get their career starte either. Bennett performed just fine as a rookie when he played with talent and then they move him to centre, give him plugs as wingers and we wonder why he can't produce? 

 

Putting him inthe nhl when they did was definetly the right move. He showed you he was ready but where they flames have erred is by giving him zero help and most rookies in the same situation wind up struggling. 

[Flyerfan52]

52 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Eichel is also a special talent so that's not exactly a fair comparison. 

 

Most high picks dont get buried with plugs like Granlund, Brouwer, Chiasson and versteeg to get their career starte either. Bennett performed just fine as a rookie when he played with talent and then they move him to centre, give him plugs as wingers and we wonder why he can't produce? 

 

Putting him inthe nhl when they did was definetly the right move. He showed you he was ready but where they flames have erred is by giving him zero help and most rookies in the same situation wind up struggling. 

Why? Because he was taken 2nd after McDavid?

Bennett was ranked 1 of the 3 top centers in his draft year (#1 most of the year) but Draisaitl & Reinhardt are showing why he dropped.

 

2nd high light:

Like Seguin? Scheifele? Stamkos? (Maybe he'd have better luck if his last name began with an "s". )

None started on the top 6 & most played a bit of winger but by their 3rd year of NHL were putting up pretty good points.

[conundrumed]

Anyone think Galchenyuk for Bennett + prospect is a valid thing?

I don't get MTL, Bennett and Kyl?

I would.

[cross16]

3 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Why? Because he was taken 2nd after McDavid?

Bennett was ranked 1 of the 3 top centers in his draft year (#1 most of the year) but Draisaitl & Reinhardt are showing why he dropped.

 

Might sound smug (I don't intent it to) but he just is. No not because he was taking behind McDavid because at the same age Eichel has always been ahead of Bennett and been IMO special. Honestly right up until their draft year I thought you could flip a coin between McDavid and Eichel, it was that close. McDavid sepereated and showed he was in fact a generation talent but I still think Eichel is special. I think eichel is going to be a top 10-15 player in the NHL in the very near future and I dont' think Bennett was ever going to hit those levels. In the same draft year I would have taken Eichel over Bennett any day of the week. That is not putting down Bennett, it's praising Eichel. Eichel doesn't have McDaid's speed but his hockey IQ is just as high.

 

Reinhart is hardly outplaying Bennett and Buffalo "fans" are questioning him as much as some Flames fans are questioning Bennett. 

 

3 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

2nd high light:

Like Seguin? Scheifele? Stamkos? (Maybe he'd have better luck if his last name began with an "s". )

None started on the top 6 & most played a bit of winger but by their 3rd year of NHL were putting up pretty good points.

 

By the end of his second season Seguin was on the top line with Bergeron and Marchand, or 2nd line depending on who you ask. Stamkos in his rookie year played with Ryan Malone and Marty St Louis.

Just a bit more talent then the likes of Brouwer, Chiasson, Versteeg and Granlund. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

4 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Bennett was ranked 1 of the 3 top centers in his draft year (#1 most of the year) but Draisaitl & Reinhardt are showing why he dropped.

You know whats interesting about this comment and point on that draft class, of that top group reinhart and draisital both have spent almost all their time on the wing with very good players. While most websites still have them listed as centers draisital spent a ton of time playing with mcdavid and reinhart I cant remember, but im pretty sure he played on eichels wing when he wasent injured, as well as O reilleys wing but I could be wrong. 

 

Its interesting that out of that group of players, bennett also had success on the wing with good players, but even while being loaded with crappy players for a large majority of the time, he still performed admirably in my opinion. I was very happy with bennetts first season at center, and like I said out of all the players in the top 10 who were drafted as centers he is the only one playing center. Bennett had some struggles offensively, but down the stretch with versteeg and chiasson things started to turn around funny how that works. I dont think everyone realizes how hard it would be to create offence with brouwer on one wing, basically taking away one side of the ice. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

An interesting note, the hockey news fantasy hockey edition predicts bennett at 26 goals and 52 points. Im not 100% sold his offence would take that big of a step this season, with good wingers it would be very doable, especially if we see tkachuk on that line.

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

An interesting note, the hockey news fantasy hockey edition predicts bennett at 26 goals and 52 points. Im not 100% sold his offence would take that big of a step this season, with good wingers it would be very doable, especially if we see tkachuk on that line.

 

Want to join our message board hockey pool this year?  We've been doing it for many years now.

 

In terms of Bennett as a fantasy hockey sleeper, I wouldn't think so.  Or at least, I would say there are many others I would pick ahead of him.  The main reason is, you're looking for an up and coming guy slated to play top 6, preferably 1st line where he can scrub his way to cheap assists where his talents alone fall short.

 

Aka, Travis Konecny, slated as 1st line LW with Giroux - Voracek. He only had 28-points last season so he might not get picked in most pools but he was a big time scorer in Juniors with a great offensive role on his hands.  He could burst out for 50 to 60-points.

 

Bennett has talent, yes.  But he has to deal with organizational depth at C and LW.  He's slated to start the season as the 3rd line C and has to earn his way up the depth chart. This means likely few PP chances until he proves himself.

[AlbertaBoy12]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Want to join our message board hockey pool this year?  We've been doing it for many years now.

 

In terms of Bennett as a fantasy hockey sleeper, I wouldn't think so.  Or at least, I would say there are many others I would pick ahead of him.  The main reason is, you're looking for an up and coming guy slated to play top 6, preferably 1st line where he can scrub his way to cheap assists where his talents alone fall short.

 

Aka, Travis Konecny, slated as 1st line LW with Giroux - Voracek. He only had 28-points last season so he might not get picked in most pools but he was a big time scorer in Juniors with a great offensive role on his hands.  He could burst out for 50 to 60-points.

 

Bennett has talent, yes.  But he has to deal with organizational depth at C and LW.  He's slated to start the season as the 3rd line C and has to earn his way up the depth chart. This means likely few PP chances until he proves himself.

 

Sure! when does it start?

 

I would agree, thats why I was surprised that the hockey news had him scoring that much, thats a heck of alot of even strength scoring. But also its not unreasonable that he might get some 2nd unit minutes this year, but then you probably see backlund or frolik get less minutes, its kind of a sticky situation.