What Will It Take To Win Next Seaon

[TrippinVdUb]

If you want to become a competitive team quickly with a young roster, then you have to start by building from the net out.

Your always going to come across players who will have scoring droughts, a pp that may not be clicking at times or key injuries through out your line up. But having a solid d core in front of a good-great goalie allows your forward core to go out and play there game with confidence knowing that the back end is there to bail them out and keep games close.

The opposite is rarely true, your asking allot of your forwards if you expect them to go out and score 3+ goals a game to get you in the win column.

Mike Richards is a very good hockey player that can be invaluable for the right team, but to trade him for Gio? Thats just ludicrous. GIO and Brody bailed this team out of some very tense moments, they carried the work load and were a calming influence to the rest of the roster when they were on the ice and probably a very big reason why we had some many games decided by 1 goal.

A #1 Dman should be able to control the pace of the game and push the play forward into the oppositions zone, you want to use Edmonton as an example? IMO there biggest problem isn't a lack of veteran presence/Leadership, its that they are missing that elusive stud dman. GIO is just that a stud who should have been on the ballet for the Norris last season.

Sorry but Mike Richards will never be able to bring that same kind of value to this team.

[Carty]

A #1 Dman should be able to control the pace of the game and push the play forward into the oppositions zone, you want to use Edmonton as an example? IMO there biggest problem isn't a lack of veteran presence/Leadership, its that they are missing that elusive stud dman. GIO is just that a stud who should have been on the ballet for the Norris last season.

 

Those that doubt the importance of top D on a team can just look at what Pronger did for the Oil...   I'll go so far as to say no Pronger, no cup run...    Then look at the immediate effect it had when he left...

 

Right now, Gio is the Flames top D man...

[CheersMan]

Those that doubt the importance of top D on a team can just look at what Pronger did for the Oil...   I'll go so far as to say no Pronger, no cup run...    Then look at the immediate effect it had when he left...

 

Right now, Gio is the Flames top D man...

 

 

Pronger should also be given credit for bringing Anaheim the SC in 2007.  The Flyers can thank Pronger as well for getting them to the finals in 2010.  Pronger was the common piece on all 3 teams. 

[ThisFire]

I feel Giordano's value right now outweighs almost anything (realistic) we could get back for him. A ton of top d-men in the league right now tend to develop from later round picks rather than from high expectations and having a top player in Calgary to mentor our young players could be much better for our rebuild than trading his value for potential right now. Without Giordano there's really no one left in Calgary to provide that leadership role.

[robrob1974]

So ? This is a rebuilding situation and I think Richards provides us real benefits over keeping Giordano around. LA needs better defence men past Doughty and I think they would do this deal.

 

Of course LA would do this deal, they're stealing Giordano from Calgary. 

Right now, Giordano's value is at an all time high. He is worth more to the Flames than Richards is. That's not discounting that Richards isn't a good player, but Giordano is way better right now. 

 

I say, right now, I think that if we could get the 1st or 2nd overall with Giordano right now, that's the only way I would trade him. And that's just me, but other than that, no, I wouldn't. 

[FeyWest]

I mirror everyone's thoughts on Gio here, he's just too valuable to the team right now to trade imo.

 

It's a poor time to be trading any of our Dmen because that is one of our weakest positions to begin with. The timing is poor, This is Gio's 1st year as Captain (And did a damn good job to boot), I really consider Gio as one if not the only untouchable at this moment.

 

Next year or year after, once the team is more established and has more experience, I think you have a better chance at promoting someone to Captain from within. I feel Gio's value to the team is priceless, the kids work well with him, he makes everyone on the team better and I think he's one of the major contributors to Brodies early success.

 

If we're to have anyway of coming out of the barren desert quickly, Gio will be one of the major reasons for it. His experience and determination are unparalleled, he may not be Doughty calibre (debatable )  but he is pretty damn good and one of the most underrated defencemen outside of Calgary.

[Flyerfan52]

If you want to become a competitive team quickly with a young roster, then you have to start by building from the net out.

Your always going to come across players who will have scoring droughts, a pp that may not be clicking at times or key injuries through out your line up. But having a solid d core in front of a good-great goalie allows your forward core to go out and play there game with confidence knowing that the back end is there to bail them out and keep games close.

The opposite is rarely true, your asking allot of your forwards if you expect them to go out and score 3+ goals a game to get you in the win column.

Mike Richards is a very good hockey player that can be invaluable for the right team, but to trade him for Gio? Thats just ludicrous. GIO and Brody bailed this team out of some very tense moments, they carried the work load and were a calming influence to the rest of the roster when they were on the ice and probably a very big reason why we had some many games decided by 1 goal.

A #1 Dman should be able to control the pace of the game and push the play forward into the oppositions zone, you want to use Edmonton as an example? IMO there biggest problem isn't a lack of veteran presence/Leadership, its that they are missing that elusive stud dman. GIO is just that a stud who should have been on the ballet for the Norris last season.

Sorry but Mike Richards will never be able to bring that same kind of value to this team.

The only way I see Mike Richards helping the Flames is by adding him without subtracting Gio. He'd be another voice in the room that isn't accepting of losing to back up Gio. His history of trophys/medals give him a lot of credibility with the youth.

If Calgary decides to add now rather then do a speeded up draft build you keep Gio & add a Mike Richards. Most of you read my post about #10 seeing Doughty jump into the play a few games back so go back to help on D & prevent a 2-1.

Then they need to add a truckload of current talent because those 2 alone can't make a ragtag crew anything resembling a contender.

 

If it's the fast route via draft I've mentioned we trade Gio for Pulock & #5 OA but then have no need for Mike for a few years. That's where we count on a guy like Glencross who's heart is in Calgary to assume the leadership to keep the build short. The rent-a-players we use to hit the cap & buy a few years for the teens drafted won't be leaders but if chosen properly can add to showing how work ethic is sometimes more important then talent alone if you want a long career (I mentioned Willie Mitchell &/or Hannan on D).

******************************************************************

As a sidenote I posted M Richards would be a good fit on the Jets a while ago. Today a writer that I don't admire had a similar (but less reasoned ) story in our Free Press.

[conundrumed]

Why shouldn't we while we are rebuilding ? Please explain.

 

Why should we, we're rebuiding I think is also a valid question.

What is it you want Richards to do here? Be a 1st line center? He's a solid 2nd line center.

His faceoff wins? Okay, understandable.

Leadership? I'd prefer Gio for that.

 

Buyout or not, Giordano should not be traded from here without massive payment.

We just made him Captain, and in his 1st year with that did a phenomenal job, by all accounts.

He's on a great contract.

It's how you become untouchable. When you get traded, it raises a lot of eyebrows of "what's going on in Calgary" with everyone.

We should all know that feeling.

I don't care about the media's opinion so much as much as start getting worried about player agents advising their clients.

After 1 year of Captaincy, finally a year where people are saying, "I really like how the Flames are playing this year, go hard every night". People outside of our fanbase, I mean...

Can't deny pairing up with Gio is an insurgence of confidence from his playing partners.

At a value.

It would take a pretty sum to get Gio, to a point imho the matter isn't even heard by mgmt.

 

Certainly no disrespect for Richards, unless you meant Brad, but this trade would be an unadulterated slap in the face to Giordano, under the circumstances which the Flames bestowed upon him and he excelled at.

That message would haunt us for quite some time, methinks.

A step backwards we'd rather avoid imo.

 

I should also add, how many times do you remember the words, "heart and soul" from anal-ysts when describing Mark Giordano.

You can't rip that out of your team, after last years showing.

4th last, yup. But who expected us to set a record with 49 one goal games?

One goal games are the difference in goalies alone.

That's impressive for a team that shoulda been about dead last.

[TrippinVdUb]

Why are we even discussing trading Gio? He's untouchable remember?

[MAC331]

I don't think its a bad contract for us given the play and benefits he provides. I already conceded that a good GM can work on something else in the deal. i would likely only do this deal if they resigned Cammalleri.

Giordano is great captain to helm us through a rebuild. As we saw this season. It doesn't mean he is untouchable. But it will take a heck of a lot more than a buyout candidate on a bad contract to trade him.

[MAC331]

If not Giordano then who or what, if they actually wanted to land Richards away from LA ? I don't deny what Giordano provides for this team but we need some further elements of experienced leadership for a few years as some of the youth grow into taking over.

Hey I'm all for getting Richards for less if we can and resigning Cammalleri as a start so all the pressure doesn't land on Monahan and Colburne.

Why should we, we're rebuiding I think is also a valid question.

What is it you want Richards to do here? Be a 1st line center? He's a solid 2nd line center.

His faceoff wins? Okay, understandable.

Leadership? I'd prefer Gio for that.

 

Buyout or not, Giordano should not be traded from here without massive payment.

We just made him Captain, and in his 1st year with that did a phenomenal job, by all accounts.

He's on a great contract.

It's how you become untouchable. When you get traded, it raises a lot of eyebrows of "what's going on in Calgary" with everyone.

We should all know that feeling.

I don't care about the media's opinion so much as much as start getting worried about player agents advising their clients.

After 1 year of Captaincy, finally a year where people are saying, "I really like how the Flames are playing this year, go hard every night". People outside of our fanbase, I mean...

Can't deny pairing up with Gio is an insurgence of confidence from his playing partners.

At a value.

It would take a pretty sum to get Gio, to a point imho the matter isn't even heard by mgmt.

 

Certainly no disrespect for Richards, unless you meant Brad, but this trade would be an unadulterated slap in the face to Giordano, under the circumstances which the Flames bestowed upon him and he excelled at.

That message would haunt us for quite some time, methinks.

A step backwards we'd rather avoid imo.

 

I should also add, how many times do you remember the words, "heart and soul" from anal-ysts when describing Mark Giordano.

You can't rip that out of your team, after last years showing.

4th last, yup. But who expected us to set a record with 49 one goal games?

One goal games are the difference in goalies alone.

That's impressive for a team that shoulda been about dead last.

[kehatch]

I don't think its a bad contract for us given the play and benefits he provides. I already conceded that a good GM can work on something else in the deal. i would likely only do this deal if they resigned Cammalleri.

It's a bad contract for any team. The Flames may be able to afford it, but that doesn't change the fact that Giordano is more important to the Flames than Richards. It also doesn't change the fact that Giordano for Richards is a horrible trade.

If LA is seriously looking for a buyout than I would consider trading for Richards at the right price. But only at the right price.

[FeyWest]

It's a bad contract for any team. The Flames may be able to afford it, but that doesn't change the fact that Giordano is more important to the Flames than Richards. It also doesn't change the fact that Giordano for Richards is a horrible trade.

If LA is seriously looking for a buyout than I would consider trading for Richards at the right price. But only at the right price.

 

Unfortunately for us trades are going to be tough at this stage of the rebuild only because I'm hard pressed to suggest trades that are going to be win-win for both sides (or win-loss in our favor), even with Treliving having a trade guru like Burke to help out I feel we'd kind of lose out on any kind of deal; Richards or anyone right now....

[MAC331]

Then who I asked, if not Giordano. Offer up something.

It's a bad contract for any team. The Flames may be able to afford it, but that doesn't change the fact that Giordano is more important to the Flames than Richards. It also doesn't change the fact that Giordano for Richards is a horrible trade.

If LA is seriously looking for a buyout than I would consider trading for Richards at the right price. But only at the right price.

[MAC331]

Is D one of our weakest positions ? How about no top line material at all and a bunch of players who are no more than 2nd and 3rd line players at best.

Flames could shore up our D by adding a few FAs like Greene LA and Stralman NYR

Should you be able to get a player like M Richards, resign Cammalleri and add M Raymond as a FA we could have a solid team.

By solid team I mean a hard working team that wouldn't embarrass itself and allow the youth to mature properly with added experience.

I mirror everyone's thoughts on Gio here, he's just too valuable to the team right now to trade imo.

 

It's a poor time to be trading any of our Dmen because that is one of our weakest positions to begin with. The timing is poor, This is Gio's 1st year as Captain (And did a damn good job to boot), I really consider Gio as one if not the only untouchable at this moment.

 

Next year or year after, once the team is more established and has more experience, I think you have a better chance at promoting someone to Captain from within. I feel Gio's value to the team is priceless, the kids work well with him, he makes everyone on the team better and I think he's one of the major contributors to Brodies early success.

 

If we're to have anyway of coming out of the barren desert quickly, Gio will be one of the major reasons for it. His experience and determination are unparalleled, he may not be Doughty calibre (debatable )  but he is pretty damn good and one of the most underrated defencemen outside of Calgary.

[jjgallow]

all we need to win next season is a complete abandonment of the rebuild, and an acceptance of sub-par hockey for the next 5 years.

[Kipper14]

As someone mentioned, we wont be winning much next season!

 

I hope we continue to run with the kids....continue to let them gain their footing in the NHL.

 

If we finish low again next season, well there is the biggest #1 overall since Sidney Crosby available in the 15' Draft.

 

The idea of finishing so low next season is sad, but then you imagine having Monahan, Gaudreau, whoever we draft this month, and then McDavid as our forward core....and you start to salivate!

 

I would love to see this team not only in the playoffs in 2-3 years, but contending for a Stanley Cup!

[conundrumed]

4th last, yup. But who expected us to set a record with 49 one goal games?

 

Does everyone simply overlook this fact?

For me, it's a pretty heady stat. 25-24 in those 49.

We've earned a reputation, and these 49 games are certainly positive results in year 1 of a rebuild.

If we progress this year in similar manner, we can cut the McDavid talk.

We're not as good as we wanna be, but we're not as bad as the prognosticators might want us to believe.

Of course some will recite the "take a step back theory".

But it's just a theory.

[MAC331]

It's a bad contract for any team. The Flames may be able to afford it, but that doesn't change the fact that Giordano is more important to the Flames than Richards. It also doesn't change the fact that Giordano for Richards is a horrible trade.

If LA is seriously looking for a buyout than I would consider trading for Richards at the right price. But only at the right price.

Why is it a bad contract ? You don't think Richards is worth that kind of money ? Maybe not as a 4th line C in LA but this is why his name is even surfacing. If you can get Richards for a song you make the move. I know I would be trying. Keep Giordano, maybe they could use Backlund a solid 3rd line C at the right price.

[MAC331]

Does everyone simply overlook this fact?

For me, it's a pretty heady stat. 25-24 in those 49.

We've earned a reputation, and these 49 games are certainly positive results in year 1 of a rebuild.

If we progress this year in similar manner, we can cut the McDavid talk.

We're not as good as we wanna be, but we're not as bad as the prognosticators might want us to believe.

Of course some will recite the "take a step back theory".

But it's just a theory.

I think with the effort we got from this team we keep "building" and are not as bad as some make us out to be. We got some real answers about a few players this year. People bring up our need for more D ? Giordano is solid, Wideman when healthy is top notch, Brodie made great progress, Smid another solid Dman, Russell is a good smart player. We need one or two experienced players added here.

Ramos with a solid platoon partner will serve us well.

We are unlikely to be able to attract a top line FA, C or W so trading for someone like Richards already in a contract may be the way to go. If Cammalleri really would sign here resign him. Richards and Cammalleri gives you a good start and a pair of pros that any of our youth would love to play with.

Like you I actually think we can improve next season as a better step in the right direction.

[jjgallow]

I would sign Richards, no problems.   But not with the expectation that he would bring us into the playoffs next year.

 

I would sign him to mentor our youth, to balance our lines a bit, and to trade him to a contender at the trade deadline.

[cross16]

I would sign Richards, no problems.   But not with the expectation that he would bring us into the playoffs next year.

 

I would sign him to mentor our youth, to balance our lines a bit, and to trade him to a contender at the trade deadline.

I keep hearing this all the time, and not just form you JJ, but every free agent hat gets talked about it always seems to be flipping him at the deadline. You can't do that consistently and keep a solid reputation as an organization. Why as a free agent should they consider calgary if hey are just going to get flipped for extra pieces in he rebuild? Can't build a team like that and yes there are some exceptions but if you are going to commit money and term to a player be prepared to have that player here for at least a good chunk of I his contract.

[jjgallow]

I keep hearing this all the time, and not just form you JJ, but every free agent hat gets talked about it always seems to be flipping him at the deadline. You can't do that consistently and keep a solid reputation as an organization. Why as a free agent should they consider calgary if hey are just going to get flipped for extra pieces in he rebuild? Can't build a team like that and yes there are some exceptions but if you are going to commit money and term to a player be prepared to have that player here for at least a good chunk of I his contract.

 

Yeah, good point.  I still think we should be sellers at the deadline, though.  At least for one more year.  Maybe two.

 

Another option might be to sign Richards for real, for the purpose of being able to offload Cammy, or Hudler, or both, for instance.   More palatable but same resolve.

 

To partially answer your question (why would Richards sign with a team at our stage)....contenders can't afford Richards for a full season.   But they can afford him for a few months, plus playoffs.  Richards will try for contenders but they won't give him the salary he wants.  They can't.    

 

Here, Richards would receive premium minutes.  He would even have a crack at first-line minutes.  And if he does well, it's pretty much a ticket to the playoffs.   So, in a sense, it can be sold as a career revitalization.  And I actually think it could be for him.

 

The Iggie bust kind of killed deadline trades this year, imho.   But after the Marion Gaborik trade, I would expect normal panic buying to resume a next year's deadline.

[cross16]

I'm not against being a seller at the deadline if you are out of contention I'm just against he idea that certain players should be acquired under the preemie that they can be flipped for something at the deadline especially players acquired on, or acquired with, multi year deals. If the flames were to sign say Dany Heatley to a one year prove it deal and find themselves out of contention and dany was ok being moved then fine, but I just an starting to hate how almost all acquisitions seem to need to be discussed in how they may be able to net the flames an asset down the road. That's not how you want to rebuild a solid organization.

[FeyWest]

Double Post