CheersMan Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Funny how a bit of time changes everything: McDavid's playing in the WJC tommorrow: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/mcdavid-in-team-canada-lineup-sunday-vs-sweden/ And the Flames, meanwhile, are flirting with 500 and basically, like it or not, in the McDavid/Eichel hunt: http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20142015&sort=points&type=LEA With today's standings we now have a 1% chance at picking first. If we finished dead last (30th) which is highly unlikely we would still only have a 20% chance with the new lottery. Whoever finishes dead last this year will have an 80% chance of NOT landing McDavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 With today's standings we now have a 1% chance at picking first. If we finished dead last (30th) which is highly unlikely we would still only have a 20% chance with the new lottery. Whoever finishes dead last this year will have an 80% chance of NOT landing McDavid. But they get a solid plan B. All I want for Christmas is for the Oilers to finish 29 and a team ahead of them win the lottery. If the get Eichel or McDavid I am going to puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I'm still holding onto my prediction of the Flames finishing somewhere between 20th & 25th. That would only give them between a 3.5% to $7.5% chance to draft first overall. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728795 If we don't make the play-offs, I'd prefer to at least finish low enough to draft Hanifin or Kylington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I'm still holding onto my prediction of the Flames finishing somewhere between 20th & 25th. That would only give them between a 3.5% to $7.5% chance to draft first overall. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728795 If we don't make the play-offs, I'd prefer to at least finish low enough to draft Hanifin or Kylington. I would say your prediction is fairly close. I'm thinking the Flames will have a 8-10% or potentially greater chance of drafting him. This new lottery system may not be perfect, but it's sure an improvement, giving the Oilers a maximum of only 25% chance of ruining McDavid's life. But just generally, this is turning out to be a fantastic draft. The Flames got one thing right (likely by accident)...they landed some amazing years to rebuild in. With any luck, the 2015 draft will mark the final phase of rebuilding their core. (sans some questions remaining about their young D). McDavid, meanwhile, is not currently a "Next One", but has definitely turned some heads this year. Even Flyerfan's head He's definitely found a healthy middle ground between the unrealistic hopefuls (including myself), and the Daigle naysayers. Whatever he becomes, I'm definitely watching tomorrow and I'm really glad that we have a chance, however small, to put a Flames jersey on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Just watched Canada vs USA world juniors. McDavid showed some flashes from time to time but was not dominant on a consistent basis. Crosby, in comparison, is a super grinder who controls the boards and dominates the play down low from shift to shift. McDavid has to score off the rush or he won't score at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Just watched Canada vs USA world juniors. McDavid showed some flashes from time to time but was not dominant on a consistent basis. Crosby, in comparison, is a super grinder who controls the boards and dominates the play down low from shift to shift. McDavid has to score off the rush or he won't score at all. Crosby also was relatively ineffective during his 17 yr old yr iirc. It's simply a 19 yr old tourny and age differences at that stage are huuuge.. Its never been a tourny where 17 yr olds thrived. edit... just looked it up.. Crosby was pushed down the lineup by the likes of Nigel Dawes and Anthony Stewart who more than doubled up his scoring. If that doesn't put a huge exclamation point of how valuable a yr of development is at that age....... (one of the reasons i like what Virtanen is doing as the 3rd youngest on the team right now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Crosby also was relatively ineffective during his 17 yr old yr iirc. It's simply a 19 yr old tourny and age differences at that stage are huuuge.. Its never been a tourny where 17 yr olds thrived. edit... just looked it up.. Crosby was pushed down the lineup by the likes of Nigel Dawes and Anthony Stewart who more than doubled up his scoring. If that doesn't put a huge exclamation point of how valuable a yr of development is at that age....... (one of the reasons i like what Virtanen is doing as the 3rd youngest on the team right now) Crosby was 16 the year Dawes led team Canada in scoring. When he was 17 he was part of the best team Canada ever assembled and had 9 points in 6 games. McDavid isn't going to be near as good as Crosby IMO, I have always seen him as being closer to a Tavares level player, which would make a very good player still. As far as play style goes, Nathan McKinnon might be the more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Crosby was 16 the year Dawes led team Canada in scoring. When he was 17 he was part of the best team Canada ever assembled and had 9 points in 6 games. McDavid isn't going to be near as good as Crosby IMO, I have always seen him as being closer to a Tavares level player, which would make a very good player still. As far as play style goes, Nathan McKinnon might be the more accurate. Yeah.. you're right.. Also Crosby is bad example to compare anyone to being as exceptional as he has always been... but you mentioned a couple players that are excellent comparisons in terms of 17 u r old performances at the world Jr's. MacKinnon was benched at times even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I agree it's not fair to use this current world juniors as a knock on mcdavids game as not only does the tournament not cater to younger players team canada has way too much depth, especially this year, to trust at 17 year old. He isn't Crosby and IMO never has been but I'm not going to knock someone for not being Crosby. He's going to be a damn good nhl player, no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Bump. Don't look now, but we're in the sweepstakes (like it or not). With 20 games remaining, we are 5 points away from a top-10 draft pick. And we are down Gio and Cross. McDavid isn't Crosby. I see that now. But he is still McDavid. He is absolutely tearing up the OHL right now. 13 goals, 33 points in 12 games for December. In many ways, as described above, he has not accomplished what Crosby has. But then again, he is bigger than Crosby and his performance May translate better to the NHL. Not Crosby, but too good to compare to many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Since we're likely not going to make the playoffs, I would want the Flames to get into the top 10 for picks. Yes, McDavid is not Crosby but looks like a Stamkos at worse. Still a franchise altering player and somebody worth tanking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 No. That would require the willfully, and consciously engaging the idea of not trying hard in every game, not giving it 100% effort every shift, every game, and be at peace with giving up all hope and effort. This would be about as apocalyptic as discovering that Mother Theresa was a serial killer. The Flames have worked too hard this season, getting to where they currently are now, to willfully accept the idea of throwing in the towel. They have battled as brothers, and gained the respect not only of their teammates, but of the entire NHL for their amazing results in only their second year of a rebuild. And you want to destroy it by tanking for McDavid. The fans of this team would walk away in abject disgust if they even thought for one microsecond that this team thought "oh well, our heart-and-soul Captain is gone, we're not going to do anything in the playoffs, might as well shoot for the bottom so we have a shot at that all-important superstar in the draft this year". You can rationalize it all you like. You can try to convince the members of this message board that this would be the right course of action. Hell, I'll personally try to get you air time on Fan960 during the drive home in the afternoon so you can voice this opinion to the entire city. Bottom line, your idea is wrong. It's wrong for the IDENTITY of this team, and it's wrong for the MORAL of this team and its fans. There are few things on this board I strongly disagree with, and even fewer that I'll stand up and raise my voice against when I do disagree with it, but I WILL stand up and raise my voice for this. There is absolutely NO WAY you can justify actively tanking for a POTENTIAL shot at landing a superstar, and still maintain the pride and integrity that the Calgary Flames have battled for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 +1 Kulstad (and minions). I for one will cheer the Flames to whatever the result, whether it be one point out or one point in. Cheering to the bitter end. This is not like teams of old that coasted towards the playoffs and lost. This is our team. They came out of the gates like Gio wasn't even missing, and managed the win to spite the hand-wringers. Go Flames Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 We have just as good a chance at making the playoffs as LA, Vancouver, San Jose, Minnesota or Winnipeg. So why would we start tanking? I am glad this team doesn't give up as easily as some of its fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 No. That would require the willfully, and consciously engaging the idea of not trying hard in every game, not giving it 100% effort every shift, every game, and be at peace with giving up all hope and effort. This would be about as apocalyptic as discovering that Mother Theresa was a serial killer. The Flames have worked too hard this season, getting to where they currently are now, to willfully accept the idea of throwing in the towel. They have battled as brothers, and gained the respect not only of their teammates, but of the entire NHL for their amazing results in only their second year of a rebuild. And you want to destroy it by tanking for McDavid. The fans of this team would walk away in abject disgust if they even thought for one microsecond that this team thought "oh well, our heart-and-soul Captain is gone, we're not going to do anything in the playoffs, might as well shoot for the bottom so we have a shot at that all-important superstar in the draft this year". You can rationalize it all you like. You can try to convince the members of this message board that this would be the right course of action. Hell, I'll personally try to get you air time on Fan960 during the drive home in the afternoon so you can voice this opinion to the entire city. Bottom line, your idea is wrong. It's wrong for the IDENTITY of this team, and it's wrong for the MORAL of this team and its fans. There are few things on this board I strongly disagree with, and even fewer that I'll stand up and raise my voice against when I do disagree with it, but I WILL stand up and raise my voice for this. There is absolutely NO WAY you can justify actively tanking for a POTENTIAL shot at landing a superstar, and still maintain the pride and integrity that the Calgary Flames have battled for this season. If we win the Cup without any morals, then it's worth it. As long as we win the Cup, then any strategy taken was worth it. If we tank and don't get McDavid, but end up winning the Cup years later, then it's worth it to tank. If we don't tank, and don't draft McDavid, and we end up winning the Cup years later, then it's worth it to not tank. Just win the Cup and it's worth it. In the end, tanking is just a strategy that has proven to work for many teams. Don't be so sensitive to a suggestion that has been worth it for so many teams in the past and can be worth it for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 If we win the Cup without any morals, then it's worth it. As long as we win the Cup, then any strategy taken was worth it. If we tank and don't get McDavid, but end up winning the Cup years later, then it's worth it to tank. If we don't tank, and don't draft McDavid, and we end up winning the Cup years later, then it's worth it to not tank. Just win the Cup and it's worth it. In the end, tanking is just a strategy that has proven to work for many teams. Don't be so sensitive to a suggestion that has been worth it for so many teams in the past and can be worth it for us. Sigh.... And the Chicago Cubs almost ruined baseball because of their lack of morals. Those of us that felt it wrong about tanking for Crosby or (insert name here) may call it morals or not cheating. Cheer for the team, not the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Sigh.... And the Chicago Cubs almost ruined baseball because of their lack of morals. Those of us that felt it wrong about tanking for Crosby or (insert name here) may call it morals or not cheating. Cheer for the team, not the end result. If you're not cheating, then you're not trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 If you're not cheating, then you're not trying. That's on faceoffs. ******************************* Go into the dressing room & tell the current team to try less so they can add a potential superstar that will take 1 of their jobs. I dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 That's on faceoffs. ******************************* Go into the dressing room & tell the current team to try less so they can add a potential superstar that will take 1 of their jobs. I dare you. Morals is just merely potential as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Morals is just merely potential as well. Do you mean morale or morals? If the 2nd you have a bleak outlook on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyromancer Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Even if tanking meant we would get the first 5 picks in this deep draft, I would rather take satisfaction out of the fact we gave it our best in our drive to make the playoffs. If we miss the post-season by a mere point I will be proud of my team to the nth degree. As for McDavid, a bottom of the barrel playoff spot gives us a 0.000% lottery chance. Now if we can package some later picks for a lottery ticket, then I might consider the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 If you're not cheating, then you're not trying. tell this to your kids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Do we seriously need to have a tanking debate in every single section of this forum? I think everyone's position is well known and no one is going to change minds at this point. Be nice to be able to stick to topics at hand. McDavid is red hot right now. IMO Crosby was better at the same age but McDavid is not far behind. He's found a new level that only the special ones have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirakzigil Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Personally I dont think anyone will outtank the Oilers, Sabres and Yotes. My dream scenario would be the Flames fighting it out to the end, missing the playoffs and then winning the lottery. Ironically enough the bottom 3 placed teams have less than a 50% chance to land the top pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Do we seriously need to have a tanking debate in every single section of this forum? I think it goes both ways. As much as i should suggest tanking less, we don't need 5 guys jumping on my posts every time i suggest it. Just let it go. It's not even that serious. I was replying to jjgallow so if anything, let jj reply. My post wasn't addressing everyone. Personally I dont think anyone will outtank the Oilers, Sabres and Yotes. My dream scenario would be the Flames fighting it out to the end, missing the playoffs and then winning the lottery. Ironically enough the bottom 3 placed teams have less than a 50% chance to land the top pick. Yes, that's what we all wish for if the Flames miss the playoffs. I'm a fan of the changes to the lottery system this year and the next. It removes the incentives to do what Buffalo is doing (because i agree with everyone that it's just a form of cheating) and I'm hoping the league doesn't stop there. If there's a way to cheat, then teams will. Rewarding the worst team in the league with the highest pick was an honour system that has been dated for many years now. We see many forms of draft lotteries in other leagues as well to combat this kind of cheating. I hate, and we all hate, to see Buffalo or Edmonton get McDavid because it's just not fair. It feels like they cheated by trading everybody away. It would be so awesome if a team like Philly, San Jose, LA, or Calgary get the #1 overall (if the Flames miss the playoffs) because they played honest and hard all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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