jjgallow Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 It's only a matter of time before every hockey forum has one of these threads. Might as well start it now. Please post your opinions, thoughts, on McDavid here. For the uninitiated: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1549182-can-next-big-thing-connor-mcdavid-live-up-to-the-hype http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1207632/2/index.htm Since Orr, Gretzky, and Lemieux, there have been Many, Many "next ones", all coming short of the hype, although some came close at times (Lindros, Crosby). The hockey world has grown tired about hearing of "the Next One", after some absolute, brutal failures, and even the very best failing to completely dominate the way Orr, Gretzky, and Lemieux did. Most have come to the conclusion that Gretzky and Lemieux were in a different era, and that it would never be possible to reach such domination in the "new NHL". True, even the most promising "Next Ones" never showed the domination in junior, or in the NHL, that had once been seen in the past. Yet, there are whispers now of a new hype. Despite all our past history with "Next Ones" only being a shadow of the "Great Ones"....the hope lives on. For some. In Connor McDavid. Is Connor McDavid really any different? Yes he is. He is unlike Crosby, Lindros, Daigle, or any other "next ones". Popular opinion right now is that Crosby is the closest that is humanly possible to "Great One" in this hockey era. But Crosby wasn't nearly as good as McDavid at the same age. Does that mean we should reserve hope for another "Great One"? And I mean, Dynasty great? Can a dynasty exist in this era? I'll leave that up to you... p.s... If I had my way, I'd put this in the Flames trades/signings thread. But maybe now, for this year "NHL Talk" is the best home. Yes, I am a huge Connor McDavid fan. Yes, I believe the hype. Yes, I have some unfounded hope that he will become a Flame But I thought I'd create a thread for all opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Today was possibly the first game this season where Connor McDavid was the best player on his team (other than the goalie, who had a shutout): http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/schedule/show/game/66271 With 11 points in 8 games (2 in this one), he is on the same pace, or a slightly higher one, than last year. Lemieux comparison: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=9679 Lemieux's 2nd QMJHL season saw him finishing 3rd overall in scoring, ad the same age as McDavid. No junior player has ever done this a year ahead of their draft year, other than Gretzky. For McDavid, I do not believe he needs to finish top 3 to be comparable, because the QMJHL is, and was then, an easier league. Perhaps a fair comparable would be top 5. That would suggest McDavid needs 100 points. Pro-rated to 8 games, that's 12 points. McDavid's slightly behind, but not by much. Physically, McDavid is not Lemieux. IMHO, he will actually have to do better than Lemieux in junior to have the same level of success in the NHL. But based on last year, I would say that McDavid has, so far, actually done better than Lemieux. It's entirely possible for him to keep that up this year. He plays today in less than half an hour. Based in his previous game, he may be near a breakout. If so, then it will be the start of this year's Lemiuex comparisons. Last year, they were somewhere between funny and interesting. This year, they'll be somewhere between interesting and notable. If he maintains his progression into next year: It's all anyone's going to talk about. Gretzky Comparison: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=9678 Very similar, but Gretzky played in the very best junior league available at the time. The Ontario Major Junior Hockey League. Debate will rattle on for decades about who was better between Lemieux and Gretzky. But in their junior years, imho, it was Gretzky as the gold standard. Lemieux's size may have given him an edge at the NHL level, and the result is the everlasting Lemieux-Gretzky debate. But as juniors, imho, it was Gretzky who was the faster, smarter, better player between the two. And there's never been another player since Lemieux who you could truly compare to him. Gretzky finished 2nd overall in the OMJHL, ad the age of Connor McDavid. IMHO, the OHL is somewhat watered down from the original OMJHL. Many would disagree. But I'm going to say that McDavid needs to finish 1st overall as a comparable. That's about 110 points. Right now, he's a bit short. But the season is young. It could change by the end of the day. Physically, I think McDavid is very similar to Gretzky in his era. McDavid is bigger than Gretzky, but not by a lot. McDavid is tougher than Gretzky. But he's not really a tough guy. The NHL, meanwhile, is also bigger and tougher now. Correcting for eras, I think they compare similarly and that Gretzky's junior pace is a more fair gauge of McDavid's progress. Oh...and btw, Gretzky was a monster in the world juniors. McDavid has some big shoes to fill there. But he has some time. Sidney Crosby Comparison: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=6146 Up until now, it's all McDavid. McDavid was a star in the OHL last year. Crosby wasn't even in junior at that age. In terms of this year, Crosby did finish first overall in the QMJHL at the same age....sort of. The thing is, Crosby was actually 8 months older than McDavid in the same season. Crosby is also smaller, and the QMJHL has been very, very weak in the last few years (much weaker than in Lemieux's days). I considering size, age, and league differences, I would honestly say that anywhere in the top 10 this year would be comparable for McDavid. Crosby's world juniors performance was dismal (at least his first crack at it). Very little pressure here, as long as McDavid makes the team I'd say it was comparable. The Lindros Comparison: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=8998 Open admission: I used to think Lindros would be the next Great One. That was before the big controversey. I was wrong, lol. But I was pretty young. I do think Lindros had a higher ceiling that Crosby, which was never reached. Honestly, McDavid did better in the OHL as a 15 year old than Lindros did as a 16 year old. To be fair to Lindros, he grew fast, he was a giant, and took a while to get his coordination. Lindros also made the world juniors roster, and was unremarkable in his first year. Where LIndros did dominate: Was in the OHL playoffs. That is the only place where he might come close to McDavid (in terms of this junior season). The Alexander Daigle comparison: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10648 Luckily, there is very little. Like Lindros, and Crosby, Daigle didn't make junior as a 15 year old. As a 16 year old, Daigle finished 8th in the QMJHL. Personally, I would say that McDavid's performance in the OHL last year (30th overall) was more remarkable than this. But regardless, Daigle's performance in junior was never worth of "Next One" status, and the unfortunate hype created around him killed the "Great One" dream for many a fan. There's really no comparison here. Daigle's junior performance isn't really worthy of the other players on this page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 All aboard the hype train, now accepting passengers! In all seriousness, McDavid doesn't nearly have the same physical gifts as Lemieux. I would argue he isn't even as gifted as Crosby (who, btw, led the QMJHL, and the entire CHL, in scoring a full year ahead of his draft season). Crosby was the best junior player in the world as a 16-year old. McDavid isn't even the best junior player in his own league. McDavid is a great prospect, but all this super-hype coming from everybody needs to stop. Crosby deserved the hype because he was inarguably the best prospect since Eric Lindros and proved it with his play. Not a single scout saw a single issue with his game through 2 years in Rimouski. He was that good. McDavid, like Tavares before him, has little kinks that keep him from being in that upper echelon of prospects. He's not a natural scorer and his shot isn't something to write home about comparably; Tavares on the other hand had skating issues. Crosby had none of this. Even his faceoff abilities (which were noticeably weak in the NHL prior to his training regimen) were regarded as top-class in comparison to his peers. I love McDavid but I'll regard him as a "Next One" when he becomes the perfect prospect. Like Lemieux, Lindros and Crosby before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 It's only a matter of time before every hockey forum has one of these threads. Might as well start it now. Please post your opinions, thoughts, on McDavid here. I think 2 seasons away from his draft, I think this is way too early to create a thread about him. Feel free to post his success at the WJC this year, and how he does next season if you like. I just don't want to see discussion of every game or every time he has a BM. Lots of interesting topics other than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 I think 2 seasons away from his draft, I think this is way too early to create a thread about him. Feel free to post his success at the WJC this year, and how he does next season if you like. I just don't want to see discussion of every game or every time he has a BM. Lots of interesting topics other than this. I think your comments will represent popular opinion at this time. However, that's why I created a thread. That's what threads do . Instead of hearing about Connor McDavid on a bunch of threads that you regularly read, there's a topic on him that you Don't have to read. Let's be honest, he's big enough for Sports Illustrated columns, and every member of the hockey media has mentioned his name already. Not true of many of our other threads. Kanzig, Colbourne....... Oilers.... In the big scheme of the hockey world, the McDavid topic is already much bigger than many of the topics on here. And the best part is, you don't even have to read it. It's isolated on a thread, inside an NHL thread, which is also isolated from the rest of the Flames topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 All aboard the hype train, now accepting passengers! Passengers ... me! lol In all seriousness, McDavid doesn't nearly have the same physical gifts as Lemieux. Nor do you, I, Gretzky, Crosby, Orr....the only other one is LIndros. I would argue he isn't even as gifted as Crosby (who, btw, led the QMJHL, and the entire CHL, in scoring a full year ahead of his draft season). Crosby was the best junior player in the world as a 16-year old. McDavid isn't even the best junior player in his own league. To be fair, how exactly are you comparing a season that hasn't happened yet to Crosby's? What I'm saying is, how do you know that Connor McDavid isn't going to finish first this season? (he's on pace to finish first right now) And, I don't understand the "whole league" part. The QMJHL Tends to lead the CHL in scoring...it's just an easier league. It would be different of Crosby was the best player in the world juniors or something, but he wasn't anywhere close. IMHO, if Connor McDavid finishes first in the OHL, that puts him miles ahead of Crosby. And yes, Connor McDavid has some holes in his game, but are you comparing his last season to the QMJHL Crosby? Because those were two different years. McDavid's year has yet to happen yet. McDavid is a great prospect, but all this super-hype coming from everybody needs to stop. Crosby deserved the hype because he was inarguably the best prospect since Eric Lindros and proved it with his play. Not a single scout saw a single issue with his game through 2 years in Rimouski. He was that good. Lots of people were put off by the Crosby hype too though. Is it always a bad thing to follow great accomplishments? McDavid, like Tavares before him, has little kinks that keep him from being in that upper echelon of prospects. He's not a natural scorer and his shot isn't something to write home about comparably; Tavares on the other hand had skating issues. Crosby had none of this. Even his faceoff abilities (which were noticeably weak in the NHL prior to his training regimen) were regarded as top-class in comparison to his peers. The difference between McDavid and Tavares, is that McDavid had nobody on his team last year, and Tavares did. Yet, they both had exceptional seasons as 15 year olds, and ranked nearly identical in scoring. I love McDavid but I'll regard him as a "Next One" when he becomes the perfect prospect. Like Lemieux, Lindros and Crosby before him. Yes, that's fair. I agree that it's too early. But, he may be in the process of doing that right now, is all. As written, nobody's taking it too seriously yet. But just so you know, he's picked up another 2 points tonight (game's not over), and he now has 13 points in 9 games... Which is on pace for a 100-point season, enough to lead the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Way way way too soon for this topic .... Why is it in the NHL forums. He hasn`t even been drafted yet and won`t be for 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Way way way too soon for this topic .... Why is it in the NHL forums. He hasn`t even been drafted yet and won`t be for 2 seasons. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=680800 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=682921 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=679892 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=679577 I wasn't sure where else to put it. The NHL doesn't seem shy of talking about him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 To be fair, how exactly are you comparing a season that hasn't happened yet to Crosby's? What I'm saying is, how do you know that Connor McDavid isn't going to finish first this season? (he's on pace to finish first right now) And, I don't understand the "whole league" part. The QMJHL Tends to lead the CHL in scoring...it's just an easier league. It would be different of Crosby was the best player in the world juniors or something, but he wasn't anywhere close. IMHO, if Connor McDavid finishes first in the OHL, that puts him miles ahead of Crosby. And yes, Connor McDavid has some holes in his game, but are you comparing his last season to the QMJHL Crosby? Because those were two different years. McDavid's year has yet to happen yet. Yes, that's fair. I agree that it's too early. But, he may be in the process of doing that right now, is all. As written, nobody's taking it too seriously yet. But just so you know, he's picked up another 2 points tonight (game's not over), and he now has 13 points in 9 games... Which is on pace for a 100-point season, enough to lead the league. Plenty of players start off the season pretty hot, that's why McDavid is still only tied for 10th in scoring. He's on pace to crack 100 points, but "on pace" and actually hitting that plateau are not the same thing. It's one thing to miss by a point or two while missing a game or two, but he still has 50+ games left in the year depending on injuries and international tournaments. And the competition only gets harder as slower starters get into their groove, coaching and checking systems become ingrained, and players get tired over the course of a 68-game season. Crosby was 17 points ahead of the next leading scoring in the entire CHL as a 16-year old. Even if we adjust for quality of leagues, that doesn't make up for that large of a gap. McDavid will turn 17 in January. I'm not comparing McDavid last season, to 16-year old Crosby. I'm comparing this year's Connor McDavid to 16-year old Crosby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Okay, fair enough, we don't have enough info to tell yet. I think he's better than Crosby because of the size difference, the league difference, and his performance last year. But I don't know he's better then Crosby. And so far this year, you're right...he's a point or two off the pace. IMHO, McDavid had a slow start in September. If you look at his October, he's 8 points in 4 games. Good enough to blow away the league. But obviously not enough games to mean anything yet. You've changed my tone though...I don't know if he's better than Crosby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 This puppylove is incredible. jj will become a fan of what ever team drafts him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Now now FF, we don't know that he'll be drafted by an NHL team, it's far too early for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Now now FF, we don't know that he'll be drafted by an NHL team, it's far too early for that So that means he's drafted by Edmonton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 So that means he's drafted by Edmonton? They're making a good case for him lol...if they continue to allow Edmonton to draft in the NHL, that is....and no, I definitely wouldn't cheer for them if they pulled it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 So that means he's drafted by Edmonton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 If you look at his October, he's 8 points in 4 games. make that 10 points in 5 games...nobody else his age is anywhere close. He's cracked the top 10 in scoring, and his pace is easily good enough to win the scoring title now. dun dun dun.. http://youtu.be/ak4tbUqq4js Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Well, that didn't take long: 4 points last night, first star: http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/schedule/show/game/66294 Just jumped into 5th place in league scoring (was 30th a week ago): http://ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/show 14 points in his last 6 games, including what's likely the OHL's best highlight so far (embedded above). While it's far too early to draw conclusions, it's becoming more and more clear where this is headed. Which is, the best player in the OHL. Real soon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pJcUG2r0kU&feature=youtu.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I'm going to go out on a limb and make a bold prediction here....the Flames aren't getting the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I agree that it's a pipe dream. But while we're on predictions, do you think the Flames will at least have a lottery ticket for him? In other words, are you basing this on the Flame's recent success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 This puppylove is incredible. jj will become a fan of what ever team drafts him. You really want me to become a Flyer fan, don't you? p.s...Connor McDavid picks up another 2 points. 20 points in his last 9 games. Look out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 You really want me to become a Flyer fan, don't you? p.s...Connor McDavid picks up another 2 points. 20 points in his last 9 games. Look out. If Edmonton continues under KLowe you might well be sporting copper & blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 If Edmonton continues under KLowe you might well be sporting copper & blue. Another 3-point night,btw. Connor is now tied for 2nd-overall in the OHL. The only guy above him is his line-mate, and McDavid's closing in fast. http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/show/type/top_scorers/ls_season/49 A few more games here, and we should be able to resume the "comparisons".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Top 3 draft picks for this year, reinhart, ekblad, and bennet led Team OHL in the subway series with a pretty stacked team. They were the only league to lose both games to the russians. Too little too late to realize this is the wrong thread lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted November 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Since you brought it up, lol... Connor McDavid has definitely tailed off in November. Still far and away the top prospect for next year, but he's trailing further and further behind the Crosby comparisons. At this point in time, I have to hand this one to CrzyDrvr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Sigh.... http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=183442 Connor McDavid's World Junior performance, definitely an important benchmark for the "next one" debate... Result: CrzyDrvr wins. Freaking amazing performance for his age. Not quite as good as Crosby, Gretzky, etc.etc, comparatively. I still want him here! He is gonna be amazing! But at This point in his career, he has fallen off the "Next One" track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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