Goaltending

[jjgallow]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It was tongue in sheek, mostly to deal with your extreme pessimism.

 

Unless the Flames draft "your guy" you will continue with this.

Do I think Wolf will be our starter then?

Who knows.

You are convinced that is a statistical imposibility.

EVery starter that comes out of nowhere matches that, right?

 

I actually like Dustin Wolf very much and have repeatedly spoke of him highly on here.    Unless we're talking about guaranteed NHL starter positions and then I've never liked any goalie prospect that much,  is all.

 

Wolf's a good prospect to have, if we had 3 of him I might have a different outlook here

[phoenix66]

Next year should be intriguing.

We have to determine the backup situation, does Talbot resign? Certainly not comfortable handing it to Gillies yet..

 

What has me really curious.. is Rittich

I'll go on record as saying i like Rittich.. he has progressed every year..and if they come out and say he's next year's starter I won't be disappointed .

But BT is always quick to say if you can improve the team , you do it .. and some very tempting names are looking at UFA this offseason 

Markstrom

Holtby

Lehner 

Etc

 

Again I like Rittich, but can't argue some better starter names will be available

 

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Next year should be intriguing.

We have to determine the backup situation, does Talbot resign? Certainly not comfortable handing it to Gillies yet..

 

What has me really curious.. is Rittich

I'll go on record as saying i like Rittich.. he has progressed every year..and if they come out and say he's next year's starter I won't be disappointed .

But BT is always quick to say if you can improve the team , you do it .. and some very tempting names are looking at UFA this offseason 

Markstrom

Holtby

Lehner 

Etc

 

Again I like Rittich, but can't argue some better starter names will be available

 

The thing is, I like Rittich too, for real I do... just...not as an NHL starter.   I never understood the process they took with him and, it doesn't look like I ever will at this rate.

 

Those guys are all getting old imho....there was a time I advocated for at least Lehner...many years agoo....I think we need to look for the Next Lehner/Holtby/Markstrom.  A fresh start from the goaltender out.   That's at least my take on it, and it's a rare draft year with a goalie that's nearly NHL ready who could easily drop to us.  So you could very quickly make everyone happy.

 

Outside of him, there's a steep dropoff in the draft and you're back to acquiring up and coming NHL goalies (or I'd be advocating that)

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

The thing is, I like Rittich too, for real I do... just...not as an NHL starter.   I never understood the process they took with him and, it doesn't look like I ever will at this rate.

 

Those guys are all getting old imho....there was a time I advocated for at least Lehner...many years agoo....I think we need to look for the Next Lehner/Holtby/Markstrom.  A fresh start from the goaltender out.   That's at least my take on it, and it's a rare draft year with a goalie that's nearly NHL ready who could easily drop to us.  So you could very quickly make everyone happy.

 

Outside of him, there's a steep dropoff in the draft and you're back to acquiring up and coming NHL goalies (or I'd be advocating that)

 

yeah, but Lehrer hasn’t been that great either. Markstrom was bordering on bust until last season and maybe the end of the sEason prior to last. 
 

So really, it could be that we already have that in one of ours and he moves on to better teams that have better defensive systems. 
 

I don’t think that our Goalie coach Is doing a good job of managing them plus getting them brain ready. 
 

the biggest issue i have is Rittich’s structure has broken down. His mechanics have gotten worse and there is no sign that they’re working on it. 
 

lehner looked pretty leaky last time we faced him.

[Horsman1]

our two goalies we have currently.. Rittich and Talbot are fine.. You could bring any goalie in here and he'd struggle to have great numbers with our current defensive system.. I wouldn't be wasting anything on our goalies.. The entire city it seems believes our goalie issue is a lack of direction from the goalie coach.. to the player as well as to the coaches as to who to play.. Rittich seems to have lost his confidence and is never set anymore.. why is that?? Wolf is our next in line and we have time to mold him as our future.. if we don't destroy him in the process... Get our defensive system in place.. for the whole team and a new goalie coach and move forward

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

yeah, but Lehrer hasn’t been that great either. Markstrom was bordering on bust until last season and maybe the end of the sEason prior to last. 
 

So really, it could be that we already have that in one of ours and he moves on to better teams that have better defensive systems. 
 

I don’t think that our Goalie coach Is doing a good job of managing them plus getting them brain ready. 
 

the biggest issue i have is Rittich’s structure has broken down. His mechanics have gotten worse and there is no sign that they’re working on it. 
 

lehner looked pretty leaky last time we faced him.

 

I would not want Lehner now, no.   I had higher Hopes for him some years ago.

 

Would still love to be wrong about Rittich

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I would not want Lehner now, no.   I had higher Hopes for him some years ago.

 

Would still love to be wrong about Rittich

 

 

What he definitely is is a solid backup who can run with a bunch of games. I'd like to see him sustain his mechanics throughout a season before he gets a long term starter role. So far, I am disappointed because I thought he could do it. But for me, it's the ablility to maintain his mechanics. In last game, one could see the breakdown in his form as he panicked and got spun around a few times. It is something that a lot of the goalies coming through Calgary seem to be doing, not keeping their composure. 

 

I think, rely on what you know and how you can play, you're going to get scored on, it happens, and always concentrate on making the next save. I think if his structure is sound, which we've seen him do, he can do well. 

 

I am still not sold on Siglet. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

our two goalies we have currently.. Rittich and Talbot are fine.. You could bring any goalie in here and he'd struggle to have great numbers with our current defensive system.. I wouldn't be wasting anything on our goalies.. The entire city it seems believes our goalie issue is a lack of direction from the goalie coach.. to the player as well as to the coaches as to who to play.. Rittich seems to have lost his confidence and is never set anymore.. why is that?? Wolf is our next in line and we have time to mold him as our future.. if we don't destroy him in the process... Get our defensive system in place.. for the whole team and a new goalie coach and move forward

 

While I don't agree past them being fine backups....I do agree about our defensive situation.   There is a lot of finger pointing back and forth between G and D.  And yes, typically the goalie does get balamed even if it's at least half or more the D's fault.

 

Either way we're gonna need to up them both of we want to win a cup.

[Horsman1]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

While I don't agree past them being fine backups....I do agree about our defensive situation.   There is a lot of finger pointing back and forth between G and D.  And yes, typically the goalie does get balamed even if it's at least half or more the D's fault.

 

Either way we're gonna need to up them both of we want to win a cup.

is that the goal?? Stanley Cup?? ya coulda fooled me... This team is built to be competitive.. not win the cup.. we don't have anyone in management that knows anything about building a championship.. and don't pull out Gelinas ans Conroy.. they were players that got on the good side of the Calgary team and were rewarded with management contracts

 

 

[Horsman1]

which goalies are available to come here and be a league top 5  number one goalie and will fit into our salary cap.Cause if yoiur goal is the cup.. then this team needs to be conpletely torn apart and restructured by position and salary

 

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Horsman1 said:

is that the goal?? Stanley Cup?? ya coulda fooled me... This team is built to be competitive.. not win the cup.. we don't have anyone in management that knows anything about building a championship.. and don't pull out Gelinas ans Conroy.. they were players that got on the good side of the Calgary team and were rewarded with management contracts

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Horsman1 said:

which goalies are available to come here and be a league top 5  number one goalie and will fit into our salary cap.Cause if yoiur goal is the cup.. then this team needs to be conpletely torn apart and restructured by position and salary

 

 

 

I want to argue with you but you keep saying things that I agree with lol 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

A TSN report with BT says that Rittich had been dealing with an elbow injury for the last half of the season. Whether you want to use this as an excuse for some subpar play at the end but this brings up some concerns. Firstly this has happened before but not disclosed until after the fact and could very well happen again. If this was known by coaching staff then why was he still starting the majority of the games while a the 1b with just as good #s sat the bench? Lastly does that say anything about the goaltending prospects or goalie coaching? I'm sure giving BSD a week or two to heal wouldnt be any worse than going into the post season riding an injured goalie.

[cross16]

It does not sound like the issue was serious. Bruising and stretched tendons, i would bet a vast majority of an NHL roster would have something similar. 

 

I'm not really concerned about the injury or having him play through it as it doesn't sound serious. However, where I do have some concerns is that sounds like an injury broght on due to fatigue or overuse. I think the Flames played the crap out of Rittich early in the season and IMO it was not necessary to do so. The model the Flames have had here for years is to take a very short sighted view of their goalies and just play the crap out of one of them early in the year. I wish they would take a long term view and maybe stuff like this doesn't happen. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, cross16 said:

It does not sound like the issue was serious. Bruising and stretched tendons so i would be bet a vast majority of an NHL roster would have something similar. 

 

I'm not really concerned about the injury or having him play through it as it doesn't sound serious. However, where I do have some concerns is that sounds like an injury broght on due to fatigue or overuse. I think the Flames played the crap out of Rittich early in the season and IMO it was not necessary to do so. The model the Flames have had here for years is to take a very short sighted view of their goalies and just play the crap out of one of them early in the year. I wish they would take a long term view and maybe stuff like this doesn't happen. 

 

 

 

I agree with your asessment.  There is something else that occured in the last month of play.

Rittich changed his trapper.

There was no mention why, but he hasn't been stellar since he switched.

Other things played into his game stats, but it may not be a coincidence that he had an injury and was using a new glove.

 

[cross16]

Maybe but i'm not really into the idea that much changed in Rittich's game. The team just got incredibly leaky in front of him. 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

It does not sound like the issue was serious. Bruising and stretched tendons so i would be bet a vast majority of an NHL roster would have something similar. 

 

I'm not really concerned about the injury or having him play through it as it doesn't sound serious. However, where I do have some concerns is that sounds like an injury broght on due to fatigue or overuse. I think the Flames played the crap out of Rittich early in the season and IMO it was not necessary to do so. The model the Flames have had here for years is to take a very short sighted view of their goalies and just play the crap out of one of them early in the year. I wish they would take a long term view and maybe stuff like this doesn't happen. 

 

 

 

 

Is that Head Coach or Goalie Coach? 
They seem to say that the Goalie Coach as a lot of the say in who plays. Hey, he's the guru. Who are we to question? Of course, that's not aimed at anyone but the organization, and coaching staff.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I agree with your asessment.  There is something else that occured in the last month of play.

Rittich changed his trapper.

There was no mention why, but he hasn't been stellar since he switched.

Other things played into his game stats, but it may not be a coincidence that he had an injury and was using a new glove.

 

 

 

Was it the same catching arm? 

New ones are stiff? and it gets taking getting use to? I've not had new goalie equipment before. But I could see, with a baseball mitt, how the difference between a well worn one and a new one. But I guess that he'd have someone to break it in for him? Or is that a personal thing?

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

It does not sound like the issue was serious. Bruising and stretched tendons so i would be bet a vast majority of an NHL roster would have something similar. 

 

I'm not really concerned about the injury or having him play through it as it doesn't sound serious. However, where I do have some concerns is that sounds like an injury broght on due to fatigue or overuse. I think the Flames played the crap out of Rittich early in the season and IMO it was not necessary to do so. The model the Flames have had here for years is to take a very short sighted view of their goalies and just play the crap out of one of them early in the year. I wish they would take a long term view and maybe stuff like this doesn't happen. 

 

 

Regardless on how bad an injury is I've never been a fan of "playing through" an injury. Thats a good way to make it worse or not have it heal totally, especially when Talbot was playing some very good hockey. 

 

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Is that Head Coach or Goalie Coach? 
They seem to say that the Goalie Coach as a lot of the say in who plays. Hey, he's the guru. Who are we to question? Of course, that's not aimed at anyone but the organization, and coaching staff.

If thats the case then maybe they need a veteran head coach thats not afraid to veto the gurus decision when/if needed.  And make sure Rittich spends time with his mentor back home like last off season.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Was it the same catching arm? 

New ones are stiff? and it gets taking getting use to? I've not had new goalie equipment before. But I could see, with a baseball mitt, how the difference between a well worn one and a new one. But I guess that he'd have someone to break it in for him? Or is that a personal thing?

 

Cassie talked about it during a game he played with it.  She said it's not like the old ones that you needed to put a rock in it or use baby oil.

It's seems to be odd that he would make the change during the year.

It could be the new one supported his wrist better?

Or the new one made his wrist sore.

Don't know if it's even the same hand that he injured or what.

I was projecting it as a cause or effect of the injury.

Unrelated if it's his blocker hand.

 

I guess I made the leap because you tend to use the trapper more freely, so it would be subject to more poking and bending.

 

[jjgallow]

14 hours ago, cross16 said:

It does not sound like the issue was serious. Bruising and stretched tendons, i would bet a vast majority of an NHL roster would have something similar. 

 

I'm not really concerned about the injury or having him play through it as it doesn't sound serious. However, where I do have some concerns is that sounds like an injury broght on due to fatigue or overuse. I think the Flames played the crap out of Rittich early in the season and IMO it was not necessary to do so. The model the Flames have had here for years is to take a very short sighted view of their goalies and just play the crap out of one of them early in the year. I wish they would take a long term view and maybe stuff like this doesn't happen. 

 

Completely agree.

 

My own assessment of Rittich is that he is a good backup goalie.   So I see this as:

 

We knew that overplaying Kipper, a clear 1A, gave us 1B performance or less and got worse as the season wore on.

 

Now we're taking those learnings and applying then to a backup goalie,  playing him hard at the start of the season. 

 

But

 

I'm not blaming Rittich either.  

 

The bigger issues are that we don't have a 1A, don't have a plan to develop a 1A, and ....  don't have the Defence.

 

In the event that we got a 1A, and got defence to support him, then...yes...

 

Overplaying would then be the  next big concern.

[travel_dude]

Scratch the concept of new glove due to a wrist injury.

Elbow, not wrist.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Scratch the concept of new glove due to a wrist injury.

Elbow, not wrist.

my elbow has been out for nearly three months from painting interior walls lol. Maybe it speaks more to my athleticism at my age... but the reps of pushing a roller and I can’t bend my arm very well. But only I’m certain motions. 

[Thebrewcrew]

An elbow injury for a goalie typically comes from the weight room. Probably over did it in the gym.

[cross16]

23 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Is that Head Coach or Goalie Coach? 
They seem to say that the Goalie Coach as a lot of the say in who plays. Hey, he's the guru. Who are we to question? Of course, that's not aimed at anyone but the organization, and coaching staff.

 

usually both. Goalie coach normally does not have the final say. 

 

21 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Regardless on how bad an injury is I've never been a fan of "playing through" an injury. Thats a good way to make it worse or not have it heal totally, especially when Talbot was playing some very good hockey. 

 

Hard to say for sure without knowing the injury. There re plenty of injuries you can play through that don't risk further injury. 

 

End of the day one aspect of the Flames I don't have a problem with is their medical team. I think they've done a good job in that area with injury management and prevention. 

[cross16]

To no one's surprise i'm sure, Dustin Wolf was a 1st team All star in the WHL.