Goaltending

[jjgallow]

17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Gillies has always had propensity for letting in soft goals going back to college and in the WJC. In college he played on a great defensive team that helped him cover up some of those mistakes. About 3 years ago he also had hip surgery, but that hasn't seemed to effect the way he moves. I really believe his issue has and is on the mental side of things.

 

So, I understand where you're coming from, but:

 

Literally every young goaltender ever in the world has consistency issues in their youth.   That is like, an expectation.  Now, I know, personal responsibility. But if you were to define One Purpose of having any staff at all for your goaltending prospects, it would be, for improving consistency.  The Number One reason they would be getting paid.

 

He got worse.   Say his team made him great in college.  Ok.  It's possible although highly unlikely as his save percentage was great too.  World Juniors he was injured and should not have been playing.

 

Just look at his AHL record then.  It basically gets worse every year.

 

Now look at, basically every Flame's prospects's AHL record out of junior.  And notice that All of them continue to get worse.  Except the very few that have escaped by being traded or let go.   Those are the only ones that ended up improving.

 

I'm talking since 1981.

[JTech780]

19 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

So, I understand where you're coming from, but:

 

Literally every young goaltender ever in the world has consistency issues in their youth.   That is like, an expectation.  Now, I know, personal responsibility. But if you were to define One Purpose of having any staff at all for your goaltending prospects, it would be, for improving consistency.  The Number One reason they would be getting paid.

 

He got worse.   Say his team made him great in college.  Ok.  It's possible although highly unlikely as his save percentage was great too.  World Juniors he was injured and should not have been playing.

 

Just look at his AHL record then.  It basically gets worse every year.

 

Now look at, basically every Flame's prospects's AHL record out of junior.  And notice that All of them continue to get worse.  Except the very few that have escaped by being traded or let go.   Those are the only ones that ended up improving.

 

I'm talking since 1981.

 

In college his team definitely helped his numbers, the year after he left Nick Ellis took over the net and had better numbers than Gillies. Ellis is now retired from the game.

 

Why has Rittich been able to succeed? 

 

One thing I always wondered is, with Calgary preferring to load up their AHL teams with prospects and young talent, as opposed to other organizations that load up their AHL teams with vets effects the way goalies develop. In one way you have a bunch of young players just learning to be pros and learning the game still, the other way you have vets you already know what it takes and are pros, but they take the meaningful minutes away from the youngsters.

 

As a goalie it would be much easier to play in front of a bunch of veteran players, who won't make as many defensive mistakes.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

So, I understand where you're coming from, but:

 

Literally every young goaltender ever in the world has consistency issues in their youth.   That is like, an expectation.  Now, I know, personal responsibility. But if you were to define One Purpose of having any staff at all for your goaltending prospects, it would be, for improving consistency.  The Number One reason they would be getting paid.

 

He got worse.   Say his team made him great in college.  Ok.  It's possible although highly unlikely as his save percentage was great too.  World Juniors he was injured and should not have been playing.

 

Just look at his AHL record then.  It basically gets worse every year.

 

Now look at, basically every Flame's prospects's AHL record out of junior.  And notice that All of them continue to get worse.  Except the very few that have escaped by being traded or let go.   Those are the only ones that ended up improving.

 

I'm talking since 1981.

playing devil's advocate .. its possible he's getting stale. Binnington certainly wasn't lighting up the minors 

He came in with the "next one " tag...  got outplayed by Rittich in the A,   lost the backup battle , now hes got Parsons on his tail .. the A can be a grind 

when he did come up , he was under the immediate short hook microscope 

 

he knows the team has essentially no confidence in him 

 

one can argue that's a mental toughness thing .. but it could be we have left him there too long .. we likely will never find out but getting the backup gig solidly in his hand might be whats needed to turn him around 

[GM_3300]

10 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

playing devil's advocate .. its possible he's getting stale. Binnington certainly wasn't lighting up the minors 

He came in with the "next one " tag...  got outplayed by Rittich in the A,   lost the backup battle , now hes got Parsons on his tail .. the A can be a grind 

when he did come up , he was under the immediate short hook microscope 

 

he knows the team has essentially no confidence in him 

 

one can argue that's a mental toughness thing .. but it could be we have left him there too long .. we likely will never find out but getting the backup gig solidly in his hand might be whats needed to turn him around 

Many here get caught up in their own expert opinions and generally have no idea what it took these players to come this far. Everyone is a critic and I say until you give someone the opportunity you will never know what he can do with it. Athletes have a lot of pride and fighting through the mental disappointments all weighs into what you become as a person. I doubt Gilles has given up on playing in the NHL and at this point he should get his chance. He has nothing left to learn in the AHL.

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, GM_3300 said:

Many here get caught up in their own expert opinions and generally have no idea what it took these players to come this far. Everyone is a critic and I say until you give someone the opportunity you will never know what he can do with it. Athletes have a lot of pride and fighting through the mental disappointments all weighs into what you become as a person. I doubt Gilles has given up on playing in the NHL and at this point he should get his chance. He has nothing left to learn in the AHL.

 

Should they give me my opportunity? You'll never know what I can do at the NHL level till you give me a chance.

 

You have to earn your chance, Gillies hasn't.

[GM_3300]

5 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Should they give me my opportunity? You'll never know what I can do at the NHL level till you give me a chance.

 

You have to earn your chance, Gillies hasn't.

I would love to see you between the pipes taking some pucks to the teeth it might be the only way to silence your expert opinion over everyone else's here.

Step right up.

Unless you are there everyday with someone like Gilles you don't know squat about his preparedness. Many wanted someone other than Rittich as a back up. You take small samples and form opinions like they are facts. Does the Goalie have to be the fastest skater on the team also ??

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Should they give me my opportunity? You'll never know what I can do at the NHL level till you give me a chance.

 

You have to earn your chance, Gillies hasn't.

 

I'd give you a coaching opportunity with the Flames goalies, yeah.  It can't be worse.

[JTech780]

7 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

I would love to see you between the pipes taking some pucks to the teeth it might be the only way to silence your expert opinion over everyone else's here.

Step right up.

Unless you are there everyday with someone like Gilles you don't know squat about his preparedness. Many wanted someone other than Rittich as a back up. You take small samples and form opinions like they are facts. Does the Goalie have to be the fastest skater on the team also ??

 

Oh I would absolutely love to get in the net and take shots from NHLers, if I ever had the opportunity I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

Being prepared doesn't always guarantee results, Gillies has been given chances at the NHL level he hasn't looked good.

 

Past results are the best indicator of future success, Gillies' past results haven't been very good.

 

And yes the goalie should be one of your best skaters.

[GM_3300]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

Oh I would absolutely love to get in the net and take shots from NHLers, if I ever had the opportunity I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

Being prepared doesn't always guarantee results, Gillies has been given chances at the NHL level he hasn't looked good.

 

Past results are the best indicator of future success, Gillies' past results haven't been very good.

 

And yes the goalie should be one of your best skaters.

I disagree he hasn't looked good with the small samples . What I saw was mixed and what anyone should expect. You seem to be of the opinion one should be perfect before awarded any kind of long look. Every goalie gives up soft goals these days so hardly a reason not to have him play at the NHL level. If he has the fundamentals down put him in there and let him adjust to the pace of the NHL game , its the only way you find out.

[JTech780]

13 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'd give you a coaching opportunity with the Flames goalies, yeah.  It can't be worse.

 

I think you almost need to types of goalie coaches, one to teach and work on technique and another to work on the mental side of the game.

 

Playing goalie has to be the most grueling job in hockey mentally. Players get to go to the bench and refocusing and take a break, goalies have to stay out on the ice and being 100% focused the entire game. So working on the mental side of the game might be more important than technique when it comes to goalies.

[jjgallow]

30 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think you almost need to types of goalie coaches, one to teach and work on technique and another to work on the mental side of the game.

 

Playing goalie has to be the most grueling job in hockey mentally. Players get to go to the bench and refocusing and take a break, goalies have to stay out on the ice and being 100% focused the entire game. So working on the mental side of the game might be more important than technique when it comes to goalies.

 

I absolutely agree.  The mental side of the game is so Incredibly important.  Mental strength should be an absolute key quality that coaches impart to the prospects.  This should be one of the top skillsets of any coach and especially a goalie coach.

 

And this is where I shut up because if I say any more, it'll be the most controversial post I've ever made in this forum.    But some of you can probably figure out what's next.

[cccsberg]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Oh I would absolutely love to get in the net and take shots from NHLers, if I ever had the opportunity I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

Being prepared doesn't always guarantee results, Gillies has been given chances at the NHL level he hasn't looked good.

 

Past results are the best indicator of future success, Gillies' past results haven't been very good.

 

And yes the goalie should be one of your best skaters.

Your memory is defective, just like your opinions.  Gillies first NHL games I believe were on a critical California road trip.  The results were just the opposite of your claim.  Why don’t you educate yourself before trying to pass yourself off as some expert.....

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, GM_3300 said:

Many here get caught up in their own expert opinions and generally have no idea what it took these players to come this far. Everyone is a critic and I say until you give someone the opportunity you will never know what he can do with it. Athletes have a lot of pride and fighting through the mental disappointments all weighs into what you become as a person. I doubt Gilles has given up on playing in the NHL and at this point he should get his chance. He has nothing left to learn in the AHL.

Isn't that what the entire pre season is about? Obviously if you have a bonafide starter theres not as much pressure in camp but this year it could be 4-5 young inexperienced goalies fighting for one spot. As in previous years Gillies will try to earn his spot just like any other hopeful, but so far he just hasn't. He's had chances, he just has to take the next step.

[JTech780]

12 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Your memory is defective, just like your opinions.  Gillies first NHL games I believe were on a critical California road trip.  The results were just the opposite of your claim.  Why don’t you educate yourself before trying to pass yourself off as some expert.....

How many different accounts can 1 person have MAC331, GM_3300 and this one...

 

He played 1 game on that road trip, and sure he played well in that game, but 1 game doesn't make a career. From just about every game I have watched he starts the game shaky, let's in a weak goal and then starts to get on track. It's that shaky start that is hard to get past.

[GM_3300]

10 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Isn't that what the entire pre season is about? Obviously if you have a bonafide starter theres not as much pressure in camp but this year it could be 4-5 young inexperienced goalies fighting for one spot. As in previous years Gillies will try to earn his spot just like any other hopeful, but so far he just hasn't. He's had chances, he just has to take the next step.

Limited chances at best and that is no measure how long term could turn out. Rittich was in the same boat and stepped up, Gilles could do the same.

[GM_3300]

10 hours ago, JTech780 said:

How many different accounts can 1 person have MAC331, GM_3300 and this one...

 

He played 1 game on that road trip, and sure he played well in that game, but 1 game doesn't make a career. From just about every game I have watched he starts the game shaky, let's in a weak goal and then starts to get on track. It's that shaky start that is hard to get past.

Nice try but not me. You have another admirer who doesn't share your points of view, go figure.

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Your memory is defective, just like your opinions.  Gillies first NHL games I believe were on a critical California road trip.  The results were just the opposite of your claim.  Why don’t you educate yourself before trying to pass yourself off as some expert.....

 

Why so salty recently?

[cross16]

Why is everyone so salty recently? I get the playoffs sucked but man sometimes it's hard to come here with so much negativity all around. 

 

This thread is a good example. Mad about Talbot, mad about Gilles, mad about development and we aren't chatting about how Rittich looks like the starter, was one of the best goalies for over half a season last year and without injury sure looked like he was going to be a starter. 

 

Personally i'm really excited and encouraged with having Rittich and giving him a chance next year. Good story. 

[GM_3300]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Why is everyone so salty recently? I get the playoffs sucked but man sometimes it's hard to come here with so much negativity all around. 

 

This thread is a good example. Mad about Talbot, mad about Gilles, mad about development and we aren't chatting about how Rittich looks like the starter, was one of the best goalies for over half a season last year and without injury sure looked like he was going to be a starter. 

 

Personally i'm really excited and encouraged with having Rittich and giving him a chance next year. Good story. 

OK so if you provide Rittich the full opportunity to be your starter do you go with an experienced back up or give Gilles as the next in line of your prospects a back up role to also gain experience ? I have a feeling money will not be spent on our net in order to fix and rearrange our D and Forward situations.

[cross16]

11 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

OK so if you provide Rittich the full opportunity to be your starter do you go with an experienced back up or give Gilles as the next in line of your prospects a back up role to also gain experience ? I have a feeling money will not be spent on our net in order to fix and rearrange our D and Forward situations.

 

Experienced backup on a 1 year deal (like they are looking at with Talbot). Still provides a chance for Gilles to take a step forward so it's not like it casts him aside. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

6 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

OK so if you provide Rittich the full opportunity to be your starter do you go with an experienced back up or give Gilles as the next in line of your prospects a back up role to also gain experience ? I have a feeling money will not be spent on our net in order to fix and rearrange our D and Forward situations.

Giving Rittich the reigns is probably the best bet right now.  Any "true" #1 right now is going to break the bank. A capable 1b to go with BSD is prob going to cost about 3m anyway.  If any backup get signed (1.0 to 1.5 mil tops) make sure he can be sent down if only to give Gillies some time.  Then MAYBE if Rittich or either other goalie gets hurt then the team isn't hooped too bad.

[The_Tribal Chief]

And Talbot maybe cheap as a Back up if they dont feel gillis is Ready Talbot may not Be the End all to be all in Goalies but When you are Under a Cap world your not Gonna End up with The goalie That is The best in the world persay cause With so many players needing contracts for the Flames They need the cheapest route they can Go I know right now people wont like what im saying but with the cap so low it really hampers out Trading and Fa signings etc

[JTech780]

43 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Why is everyone so salty recently? I get the playoffs sucked but man sometimes it's hard to come here with so much negativity all around. 

 

This thread is a good example. Mad about Talbot, mad about Gilles, mad about development and we aren't chatting about how Rittich looks like the starter, was one of the best goalies for over half a season last year and without injury sure looked like he was going to be a starter. 

 

Personally i'm really excited and encouraged with having Rittich and giving him a chance next year. Good story. 

 

I will own my part of the negativity. Sometimes I can take things a bit far to try and prove my point.

 

I think Rittich will have a big year this coming season. That being said I think we are looking for a 2nd goalie to be part of the tandem. My guess is that we won't have a goalie that plays 50+ games next season unless there are injuries.

 

I am nervous about Talbot, but I think there is a decent chance he could rebound and be a solid goalie for us. I mean we just seen Lehner and Mrazek have very nice rebound seasons.

 

Having Gillies or Parsons or Zagidulin as 3rd options gives lots of chances that 1 could turn into a Binnington in the off chance that things don't go according to plan next season.

[JTech780]

 

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

Damn, it better be a 1-year deal.  $2-mil max.