Goaltending

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

The thing is, Rinne was told by his draft year coach that he was a sleeper, but was stuck behind another goalie who also ended up a starter in the NHL. 

 

Some teams have better luck than others. Tampa drafted Vasilevsky after having Bishop which might have been on his third team.

 

i think it’s a silly argument because it could be that some teams draft goalies better. Rinne and Saros? Plus if a team already has a starter they’d walk away from someone who could possibly be one. 

 

Goalies are hard to develop. They need games. 

?

Why? We had pick 14 and traded down for Jankowski and wasisname. All of the "experts" would have said, ooh they went off the board bumping Vasilevsky up 9 spots.

We went off the board for Jankowski.

But we went and got Ramo.

I get the hindsight bullSatoshi Nakamoto, but let's call this what it was.

A mistake.

Our GM was like a used car salesman.

[travel_dude]

Smith starts again for his 3 game in a row.

I would have liked to have Rittich get back in nets again before facing Dallas and possibly SJS.

Next week is all bottom feeders, starting with LA the night after SJS.

 

EDIT - Rittich "sick" since the weekend, so that could explain this I guess.

[JTech780]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Smith starts again for his 3 game in a row.

I would have liked to have Rittich get back in nets again before facing Dallas and possibly SJS.

Next week is all bottom feeders, starting with LA the night after SJS.

 

EDIT - Rittich "sick" since the weekend, so that could explain this I guess.

This close to playoffs, getting everyone there healthy and feeling good is priority 1.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

This close to playoffs, getting everyone there healthy and feeling good is priority 1.

 

I get that.  If Smith is going to be the goto guy for the playoffs (round 1), then they need to ensure he gets rest too.

It's a double edge sword.  Play Smith too much and he burns out or tweaks something.

Play SMith too little and he's cold going into the playoffs.

 

If Rittich is the goto guy, then resting him is not quite as urgent, but he needs a few days off in general.

 

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get that.  If Smith is going to be the goto guy for the playoffs (round 1), then they need to ensure he gets rest too.

It's a double edge sword.  Play Smith too much and he burns out or tweaks something.

Play SMith too little and he's cold going into the playoffs.

 

If Rittich is the goto guy, then resting him is not quite as urgent, but he needs a few days off in general.

 

 

3 games isn't a big deal either way. 

 

As far as playoffs goes, I think you have to go with Rittich as he has been the most consistent, but more importantly he is going to be here next year and Smith won't be.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

3 games isn't a big deal either way. 

 

As far as playoffs goes, I think you have to go with Rittich as he has been the most consistent, but more importantly he is going to be here next year and Smith won't be.

 

Oh, I agree.  Below (hope format keeps) is the comps between Smith and Rittich:

 

	High	Medium	Low
Rittich	.845	.959	.953
Smith	.811	.911	.961
Advantage	Rittich +.034	Rittich +.048	Smith

 

It only speaks to overall pecentages, but you can see the only area that Smith is ahead is low danger.  Not a big difference at all, though for that.  The other areas are striking.

 

[Horsman1]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

3 games isn't a big deal either way. 

 

As far as playoffs goes, I think you have to go with Rittich as he has been the most consistent, but more importantly he is going to be here next year and Smith won't be.

As I've said before.. Smith has the worst glove hand in the league.. His reaction time has slowed considerably and unless he starts to cheat alot to his glove hand.. he's not the goalie to bring success in the playoffs... Rest Rittich as we'll be needing him to play damn near every playoff game unless we go up 3-0 or 3-1 in series and thus allowing rittich a rest day... BTW.. are the Seattle draft rules the same as Vagas in that we have to expose a veteran goalie?? if so.. I can see us holding on to Smith for next season as Seattle will need some overpriced players to make the cap floor. Otherwise I just don't see Smith as a valid option here next year

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

As I've said before.. Smith has the worst glove hand in the league.. His reaction time has slowed considerably and unless he starts to cheat alot to his glove hand.. he's not the goalie to bring success in the playoffs... Rest Rittich as we'll be needing him to play damn near every playoff game unless we go up 3-0 or 3-1 in series and thus allowing rittich a rest day... BTW.. are the Seattle draft rules the same as Vagas in that we have to expose a veteran goalie?? if so.. I can see us holding on to Smith for next season as Seattle will need some overpriced players to make the cap floor. Otherwise I just don't see Smith as a valid option here next year

 

Would need it to be a 2-year deal to have any impact on the draft.

By that point, we'll know what we have in Gillies and possibly Parsons.

As well, we will have two other goalies in the system (maybe).

Assuming we re-sign them and they meet exposure rules by then.

 

As far as Smith goes, he's been looking better, but he's not tracking the puck very well.

He's making a lot of secondary saves because he is big.  

And because he covers the lower part of the net pretty well.

Rittich is better on his feet and reaction time.

 

Both goalies would do themselves a favor and not play the puck as often.  Keep the other teams guessing.

Don't give them any scouting moments, like stripping the [uck when he's holding it behind the net.

[Horsman1]

19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Would need it to be a 2-year deal to have any impact on the draft.

By that point, we'll know what we have in Gillies and possibly Parsons.

As well, we will have two other goalies in the system (maybe).

Assuming we re-sign them and they meet exposure rules by then.

 

As far as Smith goes, he's been looking better, but he's not tracking the puck very well.

He's making a lot of secondary saves because he is big.  

And because he covers the lower part of the net pretty well.

Rittich is better on his feet and reaction time.

 

Both goalies would do themselves a favor and not play the puck as often.  Keep the other teams guessing.

Don't give them any scouting moments, like stripping the [uck when he's holding it behind the net.

Smith playing the puck is helping nobody.. The Flames simply don't score when Smith is in net

 

[rocketdoctor]

1 hour ago, Horsman1 said:

Smith playing the puck is helping nobody.. The Flames simply don't score when Smith is in net

 

 

Hmmm I am not necessarily a Smith fan this season but I will challenge that statement

 

Lost 0-3  - Yes you are correct

Won 3-1 - Nope

Won 5-1 - Nope

Lost 2-1 - Nope again

Lost 0-2 - Yes you make it 40%

 

Now I know that is a small sample size.  But your statement is just plain silly and how in the hell is it Smiths fault if the team in front of him do not score?

 

In both of those games when we did not score he kept the team in the game. Earlier in the season the team probably had to score 4 to win a game wth him in net but not in the last 2-3 months.

 

And playing the puck?  Well the team must be on diplomatic orders to say publically his puck playing helps them!  As every interview I've seen on the subject suggests the D like him playing the puck and the coach does too.  Now I think I believe the players rather than the fans.    As fans he might scare the crap out of us when he does play the puck but we know what you get with him.  Last night his puck playing ability sprang JH for an opportunity on goal alone.  Did that get applauded?

 

The problem with a puck playing goalie is every time there is a mistake or he gives it straight back to their winger it stands out like a sore thumb.  If they were avaialble I wonder if the stats would show that Brodie or Hanifan have more giveaways than Smith in our zone that lead to goals?

 

  Rittich                                           ..

 

Smith

 

 

The Stats would suggest Smith in the last 2 months Smith has been the better goalie.  Now of course you could argue he might have got easy starts I do not have the time to delve that far in.    I would just like us to get off Smitty's back and start supporting him rather than moaning about him everytime he does something wrong but giving Rittich a free ride every time he mucks up.

 

I'm not having a personal go at you Horseman1, it was just your post that set me off on a rant that has been has been brewing for a while.  And yes I know I am defending Smith in this post but I would still like to see someone else with Rittich next season!  It would be better for my blood pressure!!

 

Go Flames Go!

 

 

[MAC331]

I would have my eye on Mrazek for next season. I still believe Rittich will make a great back up. Trade Gilles in a package and start grooming Parsons.

[travel_dude]

35 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

And playing the puck?  Well the team must be on diplomatic orders to say publically his puck playing helps them!  As every interview I've seen on the subject suggests the D like him playing the puck and the coach does too.  Now I think I believe the players rather than the fans.    As fans he might scare the crap out of us when he does play the puck but we know what you get with him.  Last night his puck playing ability sprang JH for an opportunity on goal alone.  Did that get applauded?

 

What is the team going to say publically?

Smith's puck-handling scares the heck out of them?

It ruins the chances of the team executing a proper breakout?

 

Smith gets ragged on for some things.

It's not his playing the puck that bothers them.

It's the playing the puck to nobody.

Spring JH for a breakaway?  Awesome.  Everyone wants to see that.

Stop the dump in.  Awesome.  Leads to Flames possession.

Clear the zone with the immediate turnaround by the other team?  No so good.

Freeze the puck behind the net and watch it turn into a goal or a loss of possession?  Not so good.

 

Beyond that, all I want to see is the guy that the team has faith in and rewards them with a win.  I don't care who he is.

[DHT]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

What is the team going to say publically?

Smith's puck-handling scares the heck out of them?

It ruins the chances of the team executing a proper breakout?

 

Smith gets ragged on for some things.

It's not his playing the puck that bothers them.

It's the playing the puck to nobody.

Spring JH for a breakaway?  Awesome.  Everyone wants to see that.

Stop the dump in.  Awesome.  Leads to Flames possession.

Clear the zone with the immediate turnaround by the other team?  No so good.

Freeze the puck behind the net and watch it turn into a goal or a loss of possession?  Not so good.

 

Beyond that, all I want to see is the guy that the team has faith in and rewards them with a win.  I don't care who he is.

It is the two in bold that peoples remember. The second one is a real doozy.

[phoenix66]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What is the team going to say publicly?

Smith's puck-handling scares the heck out of them?

It ruins the chances of the team executing a proper breakout?

 

Derek Wills spoke on this recently .. he polled as much of the team as he could, said it was the majority he was able to ask 100% "off the record"

he says not one criticized it , and most praised it and called it a key to their play and attack

Its obvious that the coach wants it as part of his game , as they are also working continuously , purposely , with Rittch to elevate is puck playing ability 

 

All things being equal , thats a component you want against a team like Vegas , who forecheck very hard .

We played poorly as a team last night overall, but the few close chances we had came off of Smith getting it out of our zone

Yes he will have a flub every now and then, but ive noticed most of his bigger flubs are as a result of miscommunication with the D.. like getting tangled with Hanifin behind the net , or a D in his way when he scrambles to get back in the net--  not averting blame, it takes 2 to miscommunicate , but its not often he himself is 100% to blame for a miscue .

D makes bad passes , miscommunications all the time .. difference is its amplified when the goalie does it cuz it leaves the net open 

 

i recall one of the 1st things BT said after the trade was " he will give you heart attacks regularly ".. but damn if he cant pass a puck right on the tape

 

 

 

I dont think it was a coincidence before we landed on Smith , we were hottest on the trail of Bishop, also a pretty decent puck handler 

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Derek Wills spoke on this recently .. he polled as much of the team as he could, said it was the majority he was able to ask 100% "off the record"

he says not one criticized it , and most praised it and called it a key to their play and attack

Its obvious that the coach wants it as part of his game , as they are also working continuously , purposely , with Rittch to elevate is puck playing ability 

 

Sorry, quoting Wills is akin to quoting Francis.  I'm sure he has asked a few guys.  Probably after a win like the first against Minny.  Wills has his own agenda and listening to him is annoying.  He's been pushing Smith down our throats for the entire season.  Fine.  Have your opinion.  Don't try to tell me when the plays add up to a loss, they aren't annoyed by it.  They are for sure not going to throw the goalie under the bus.

 

Anyway, enough of this.  Said my piece.  Agree or not.  I'll save my breath.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sorry, quoting Wills is akin to quoting Francis.  I'm sure he has asked a few guys.  Probably after a win like the first against Minny.  Wills has his own agenda and listening to him is annoying.  He's been pushing Smith down our throats for the entire season.  Fine.  Have your opinion.  Don't try to tell me when the plays add up to a loss, they aren't annoyed by it.  They are for sure not going to throw the goalie under the bus.

 

Anyway, enough of this.  Said my piece.  Agree or not.  I'll save my breath.

so then how do we explain them Purposely putting Rittich in Puck Handling drills ?  Thats been reported many times , numerous sources . They obviously want this in the game plan . One specifically I recall, he was behind the line , shooting pucks to players past center Ice 

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Derek Wills spoke on this recently .. he polled as much of the team as he could, said it was the majority he was able to ask 100% "off the record"

he says not one criticized it , and most praised it and called it a key to their play and attack

Its obvious that the coach wants it as part of his game , as they are also working continuously , purposely , with Rittch to elevate is puck playing ability 

 

All things being equal , thats a component you want against a team like Vegas , who forecheck very hard .

We played poorly as a team last night overall, but the few close chances we had came off of Smith getting it out of our zone

Yes he will have a flub every now and then, but ive noticed most of his bigger flubs are as a result of miscommunication with the D.. like getting tangled with Hanifin behind the net , or a D in his way when he scrambles to get back in the net--  not averting blame, it takes 2 to miscommunicate , but its not often he himself is 100% to blame for a miscue .

D makes bad passes , miscommunications all the time .. difference is its amplified when the goalie does it cuz it leaves the net open 

 

i recall one of the 1st things BT said after the trade was " he will give you heart attacks regularly ".. but damn if he cant pass a puck right on the tape

 

 

 

I dont think it was a coincidence before we landed on Smith , we were hottest on the trail of Bishop, also a pretty decent puck handler 

I don't see good puck handling ability as a bad thing in today's game but I do think Smith over does it. Rittich didn't do much of it at all until this season so he isn't great at it but he is learning. Great when it works, not so great when it doesn't. I get just as annoyed with Gaudreau and Brodie's spin-a-ramas and coughing up the puck stalling out good pushes.

[Cowtownguy]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I don't see good puck handling ability as a bad thing in today's game but I do think Smith over does it. Rittich didn't do much of it at all until this season so he isn't great at it but he is learning. Great when it works, not so great when it doesn't. I get just as annoyed with Gaudreau and Brodie's spin-a-ramas and coughing up the puck stalling out good pushes.

I am surprised that this has not been stamped out almost completely. Johnny coughed up a beauty of a cherry turnover last night in our own zone. We gave up a sweet scoring chance as a result. A blind pass is a dangerous pass. 

[The_People1]

According to Brian Burke on Tim and Sid, Mike Smith is our starter going into the playoffs and it's his job to lose.

 

Thoughts?

 

[conundrumed]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

According to Brian Burke on Tim and Sid, Mike Smith is our starter going into the playoffs and it's his job to lose.

 

Thoughts?

 

It'll be Rittich's to lose come game 2.

It's not that Smith hasn't been making some big saves, but last night's 2 against he just isn't playing the position correctly.

The 2nd goal, sure, nice shot. But every NHLer will nail that one. He's too deep, too far to his right for the angle leaving a third of the net on his glove side open.

Even Hrudey commented, "not sure what Smith was thinking there". Me neither.

Now as I said, he had some great saves that could have been goals.

But there are ones you have to have this time of year, and I believe both LA goals are one's you have to be in position to stop. And he had lots of time to be in position.

He just isn't reading angles well.

He really hasn't all year, and I'm flummoxed that no one seems to be bothering to correct it.

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It'll be Rittich's to lose come game 2.

It's not that Smith hasn't been making some big saves, but last night's 2 against he just isn't playing the position correctly.

The 2nd goal, sure, nice shot. But every NHLer will nail that one. He's too deep, too far to his right for the angle leaving a third of the net on his glove side open.

Even Hrudey commented, "not sure what Smith was thinking there". Me neither.

Now as I said, he had some great saves that could have been goals.

But there are ones you have to have this time of year, and I believe both LA goals are one's you have to be in position to stop. And he had lots of time to be in position.

He just isn't reading angles well.

He really hasn't all year, and I'm flummoxed that no one seems to be bothering to correct it.

 

Oh Burke has gone totally nuts.  Must be the water in Toronto.

[conundrumed]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Oh Burke has gone totally nuts.  Must be the water in Toronto.

I generally like his stories, but his takes are a bit dicey.

[Thebrewcrew]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

According to Brian Burke on Tim and Sid, Mike Smith is our starter going into the playoffs and it's his job to lose.

 

Thoughts?

 

My guess will be whoever starts Sunday in San Jose is the guy

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

My guess will be whoever starts Sunday in San Jose is the guy

Tomorrow vs Dallas should be Sunday vs SJ.

Rittich, I'd guess, if he's over illness.

He's been the better goalie, on several fronts.

Just a question of does BP & company value puck-handller more.

Great. But your puckhandler wants to keep every puck alive and really appears to be struggling with angles and anticipation.

The other guy makes equally big saves and absorbs pucks.

Please go with Rittich.

[Thebrewcrew]

45 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Tomorrow vs Dallas should be Sunday vs SJ.

Rittich, I'd guess, if he's over illness.

He's been the better goalie, on several fronts.

Just a question of does BP & company value puck-handller more.

Great. But your puckhandler wants to keep every puck alive and really appears to be struggling with angles and anticipation.

The other guy makes equally big saves and absorbs pucks.

Please go with Rittich.

I hope he goes with Rittich too. I haven’t looked too far into it but it seems as Rittich has faced the tougher teams all season, Tampa and Winnipeg twice off the top of my head. Smith has had softer starts, all 4 against the low scoring Yotes come to mind.

 

But to behonest I think the game 1 starter will have next to no leash from the coach. Lose game 1 and we could be very easily talking about a game 2 goalie change