Goaltending

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, rickross said:

He gets leverage because he's the undisputed starter, Smith was never battling for a job, injury is Smiths only competition on this team. I'd love to be able to manage his stats and reduce his mileage and risk of injury but we don't have that luxury...yet. We still don't know if and when Rittich or Gillies will be capable of full time duties. We have to ride Smith, he gives us the best chance to win. I think he commands his starting position because he's a proven NHL goalie, that's his leverage. 

 

Hes old, I get it. I'd want to manage his play time as much as possible too but we just can't trust our backups to win us games consistently yet. 

What do you mean we don't have that luxury, it's a simple decision with having a plan. So when and how do you expect Rittich to gain our trust ?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

We need both. Smith is our starter. He is going to play 55-60 of the games in the regular season and all of the games in the playoffs. He needs to be good. We also need Rittich to be good because we dont want to be forced to overplay Smith. 

 

It's possible this is the season Smith loses the starter role and either shares starts or becomes a backup. But I need to see a couple more strong starts from Rittich and stinkers from Smith first. Like I said above, there are currently a lot of elite goalies at the bottom of the statistical pile right now and a lot of backups at the top. It's a symptom of being 5 games in. 

 

We've seen 4 good periods from Smith and 4 good periods from Rittich.  In a total of 5 games.

No, I'm not ready to annoint Rittich or throw Smith under the bus, but I prefer to see what we have in Rittich more now.

Smith has a 2-2 record.  Two losses against non-playoff teams.

If there is any time to see what we have in Rittich, now is the time.

 

 

 

[kehatch]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We've seen 4 good periods from Smith and 4 good periods from Rittich.  In a total of 5 games.

No, I'm not ready to annoint Rittich or throw Smith under the bus, but I prefer to see what we have in Rittich more now.

Smith has a 2-2 record.  Two losses against non-playoff teams.

If there is any time to see what we have in Rittich, now is the time.

 

 

 

 

The priority isn't to see what you have in Rittich. It's to get your starter playing well. Sitting him after a game then long stretch off isn't how you get your starter playing well. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

The priority isn't to see what you have in Rittich. It's to get your starter playing well. Sitting him after a game then long stretch off isn't how you get your starter playing well. 

 

I get what you are saying.

Why I lean towards starting Rittich is that we had suspect goaltending to end the season.  If we may need to make a change, it's a good idea to know that sooner than later.

 

[cross16]

Can't go away from Smith this early. i see the trend too but st the end of the day I still think he's the best goalie you have and has the greatest chance of helping you when the game matter. Small sample size to abandon that plan or to suggest Rittich Is better. Need more games 

[robrob74]

I think if Smith loses again, go back to Rittich, and then back to Smith again. 

 

I dunno. I see it multiple ways.

[rickross]

11 hours ago, MAC331 said:

What do you mean we don't have that luxury, it's a simple decision with having a plan. So when and how do you expect Rittich to gain our trust ?

We don't have a proven backup. It's that simple. Sure you can have a plan only to have God laugh at it! Simply playing Rittich doesn't make him a backup, obviously he needs his starts but that doesn't guarantee he'll magically become a starter this year. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Can't go away from Smith this early. i see the trend too but st the end of the day I still think he's the best goalie you have and has the greatest chance of helping you when the game matter. Small sample size to abandon that plan or to suggest Rittich Is better. Need more games 

 

Well, here's what I know.

Smith played really well against Nashville.

He had a so-so outing against BOS in pre-season, going 17/19 in saves.

Do you run Smith in both games?

After those two you have NYR, MTL on the road and PITTS and WASH at home.

 

Nobody is suggesting you run Smith and Rittich every other game.  Playing Smith just because he's the starter doesn't help anyone.  May get him going or may just be more of the same we've seen this season.  Other teams don't seem to have an issue playing the hotter goalie. 

 

[MAC331]

11 hours ago, rickross said:

We don't have a proven backup. It's that simple. Sure you can have a plan only to have God laugh at it! Simply playing Rittich doesn't make him a backup, obviously he needs his starts but that doesn't guarantee he'll magically become a starter this year. 

I don't think anyone is asking Rittich to be a starter this season. Right now he is the back up and with an aging starter there should be a plan for each getting a proper amount of games. Let's leave God out of it, I don't think he cares about hockey.

[MAC331]

11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, here's what I know.

Smith played really well against Nashville.

He had a so-so outing against BOS in pre-season, going 17/19 in saves.

Do you run Smith in both games?

After those two you have NYR, MTL on the road and PITTS and WASH at home.

 

Nobody is suggesting you run Smith and Rittich every other game.  Playing Smith just because he's the starter doesn't help anyone.  May get him going or may just be more of the same we've seen this season.  Other teams don't seem to have an issue playing the hotter goalie. 

 

Hard to say at this short stage of the season which is hot.

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Hard to say at this short stage of the season which is hot.

 

It's a general reference.  Who's hot?  The guy winning.  One win, one loss isn't hot.  

If you give Smith a 2nd game after a shutout, why wouldn't you give one to a strong performance in a win.

I get the starter conversation, and while I agree that Smith should play 50+ games, you don't just default to him for the next game.

[robrob74]

Play three sit two? 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's a general reference.  Who's hot?  The guy winning.  One win, one loss isn't hot.  

If you give Smith a 2nd game after a shutout, why wouldn't you give one to a strong performance in a win.

I get the starter conversation, and while I agree that Smith should play 50+ games, you don't just default to him for the next game.

You have to know the nature of your players and that is up to the coaching staff to have a feel for the situations. Smith's history is there and if he needs a heavier workload to get it going give it to him. Rittich's history is much shorter but we do know he handled himself quite well in limited action.

BTW one win, one loss isn't cold either

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

You have to know the nature of your players and that is up to the coaching staff to have a feel for the situations. Smith's history is there and if he needs a heavier workload to get it going give it to him. Rittich's history is much shorter but we do know he handled himself quite well in limited action.

BTW one win, one loss isn't cold either

 

2-2 isn't hot either.

Loss (4GA)-Win(4GA)-Win(0GA)-Loss(5GA)

 

The only guy that knows Smith's history is Sigalet.

And if he truly knows that, he knows that Smith has a terrible record after a shutout.

We need to get Smith going, but not at the expense of wins.

 

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

Play three sit two? 

 

I don't know if there is any set formula that works.  Made some sense to play Smith after he had the shutout.  At that point he had played 3 games.  Big picture, you play 3/4 and the backup only plays 20 games.  Not a good distribution for an older goalie.  Smith playing 2/3 takes you closer to 30 for the backup.  

[robrob74]

24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

2-2 isn't hot either.

Loss (4GA)-Win(4GA)-Win(0GA)-Loss(5GA)

 

The only guy that knows Smith's history is Sigalet.

And if he truly knows that, he knows that Smith has a terrible record after a shutout.

We need to get Smith going, but not at the expense of wins.

 

 

I don't know if there is any set formula that works.  Made some sense to play Smith after he had the shutout.  At that point he had played 3 games.  Big picture, you play 3/4 and the backup only plays 20 games.  Not a good distribution for an older goalie.  Smith playing 2/3 takes you closer to 30 for the backup.  

 

Play two sit one. I would set it in ink and just say, this is the plan. Coaches set up plays, monitor ice time for players, why is it any different for a goalie? Manage the time, it’s a team game and by playing less Smith is helping his back up.

[robrob74]

We need Smith to “feel it,” but we need Rittich to feel it too.

 

in the past, when Kipper was playing, I thought he played too much, which made him ineffective. In the end, it made the back up ineffective as well. 

 

I think ia rested Kipper could have won the same, if not one or two more games back then. And then the back up possibly becomes more reliable and wins a few more too. It’s hypothetical but I thought that then. It could have gotten us different opponents in the playoffs just by managing the goalies’ starts.

 

smith needs to get on a roll, but the Flames also need to manage the starts better.

[cross16]

Mike Smith to start tomorrow

 

 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Mike Smith to start tomorrow

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, which of the next 5 starts do you think should be Smith and Rittich?  I know a lot here were in favor of starting Rittich sooner than he played.  I use 5, since that's the way the coach is defining a set (7 under Gully):

10/17 - BOS  (Smith)

10/19 - NASH

10/21 @NYR

10/23 - @MTL

10/25 - PITTS

 

Smith last started on 10/11, and Rittich on 10/13.

[JTech780]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Out of curiosity, which of the next 5 starts do you think should be Smith and Rittich?  I know a lot here were in favor of starting Rittich sooner than he played.  I use 5, since that's the way the coach is defining a set (7 under Gully):

10/17 - BOS  (Smith)

10/19 - NASH

10/21 @NYR

10/23 - @MTL

10/25 - PITTS

 

Smith last started on 10/11, and Rittich on 10/13.

 

I don't know that you can go with a strict schedule, I think you give Smith these  two home games and see where he is at, if he continues to struggle I would give Rittich the game in New York and re-evaluate based on his performance there. If Smith plays well in these next two home games, I start Smith in New York and give Rittich the Montreal game, and go back to Smith at home.

[cross16]

52 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Out of curiosity, which of the next 5 starts do you think should be Smith and Rittich?  I know a lot here were in favor of starting Rittich sooner than he played.  I use 5, since that's the way the coach is defining a set (7 under Gully):

10/17 - BOS  (Smith)

10/19 - NASH

10/21 @NYR

10/23 - @MTL

10/25 - PITTS

 

Smith last started on 10/11, and Rittich on 10/13.

 

I'm not in favor of a strict schedule. Up to now, including preseason, you can't say anyone has been great so I'd be wanting to be flexible and see who steps up. Ritttich got a win sure but he didn't need to be very good so i'm not sure we can say he "stepped up". 

 

Right now my plan would be Smith is my starter and let's get him going. However, a bad game tonight and I probably start Rittich Friday and open up the net. A good game from Smith tonight then I would be targeting Rittich in either NYR or MTL, no real preference to which one, and then give Smith the rest but think you have to be flexible. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

I'm not in favor of a strict schedule. Up to now, including preseason, you can't say anyone has been great so I'd be wanting to be flexible and see who steps up. Ritttich got a win sure but he didn't need to be very good so i'm not sure we can say he "stepped up". 

 

Right now my plan would be Smith is my starter and let's get him going. However, a bad game tonight and I probably start Rittich Friday and open up the net. A good game from Smith tonight then I would be targeting Rittich in either NYR or MTL, no real preference to which one, and then give Smith the rest but think you have to be flexible. 

 

I don't diagree with what you said.  What I have noticed is that there seems to be some indecision about the starter.  Rittich needed to start at some point before too long.  It seemed like they weren't sure about Smith starting on the road.  I think they may the right call, with maybe the exception of the game after a shutout.  History had shown that to be a mistake, but I don't think you can deny the shutout as being a factor in the next starter.

 

Peters alluded to Rittich's first NHL win last year being against Colorado, so he must have talked about history playing into the decision.

[robrob74]

My vote is the Rangers. But if Smith loses tomorrow then all bets are off. Although the Bruins seem to have our number. Bergeron seems to make us pay a lot.

[MAC331]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

2-2 isn't hot either.

Loss (4GA)-Win(4GA)-Win(0GA)-Loss(5GA)

 

The only guy that knows Smith's history is Sigalet.

And if he truly knows that, he knows that Smith has a terrible record after a shutout.

We need to get Smith going, but not at the expense of wins.

 

 

I don't know if there is any set formula that works.  Made some sense to play Smith after he had the shutout.  At that point he had played 3 games.  Big picture, you play 3/4 and the backup only plays 20 games.  Not a good distribution for an older goalie.  Smith playing 2/3 takes you closer to 30 for the backup.  

Everyone knows Smith at this stage of his career not just Sigalet. Win or lose the work has to be put in some take longer tan others to get going. You may not like it but that's how she goes when you have a primary starter and a designated back up.

[rickross]

13 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think anyone is asking Rittich to be a starter this season. Right now he is the back up and with an aging starter there should be a plan for each getting a proper amount of games. Let's leave God out of it, I don't think he cares about hockey.

"If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans"

 

-Woody Allen

 

To be honest with u, Woody Allen creeps me the eff out!...but he nailed this comment. Smith is eligible for Old Age pension next year, it's no secret. They'll manage his games but he's the workhorse as long as he's healthy and winning games. BT has said numerous times that Smith is a vet with "low mileage", he's going to ride Smith until the wheels fall off...which they will! 

 

Flames really need to to limit shots on net this season if they want to preserve Smith, this will allow Rittich to gain confidence and experience and develop without the pressure of being thrusted into backstopping the team should Smith miss time. 

[Thebrewcrew]

Big test for Smith tomorrow BOS is an incredible team and he will need to bring his toes for us to have any chance