Goaltending

[CheersMan]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

This is going to be a long year for us if this is the level Smith is going to play at this year. Smith has been hot garbage in 3 of his 4 games, even in the Nashville game he didn't look especially sharp, he just fought his way through that one.

 

To me right Smith is a goalie who looks like he isn't seeing the puck clearly. He isn't following the puck very well, instead of letting pucks hit him he is swiping at the puck, and when the puck is hitting him it's like he isn't a 100% square so he is leaving rebounds and letting pucks trickle through him.

 

Unfortunately I don't think there was a better goaltender that we could have grabbed in the off season and none of our young goalies showed particularly well in pre season. Even right now I don't think we can go get a goalie that is going to plug the hole.

 

This is kind of what happens when the league keeps expanding, they dilute the talent pool, and where you are seeing the most evidence of it is in goal. There just isn't enough quality goaltenders to go around in this league.

Pardon me but I believe this to be a hot garbage post. No goaltender in the league was going to win that game for the Flames last night. Did you watch it or just pick up the stats page this morning? Smith took one on the chin for his teams poor play last evening. BP should have pulled Smith after being bombarded in the first 7 minutes when the score was still 0-0 because the team did not deserve Smith in net.

 

 

43 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Last night on the first goal, a goal he should have had, he threw his head back and his hands in the air.  As a teammate that would drive me crazy, and Smith does it all the time. Just put it behind you and move on, none of this I would have saved it if you didn't deflect it or screen me crap, even if he was mad at himself for not saving it, I don't want to see him showing frustration.

How should of he have had it when his dman deflected it plus screened his goaltender? Every goaltender in the league reacts that way in the same circumstances.

[The_People1]

52 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Last night on the first goal, a goal he should have had, he threw his head back and his hands in the air.  As a teammate that would drive me crazy, and Smith does it all the time. Just put it behind you and move on, none of this I would have saved it if you didn't deflect it or screen me crap, even if he was mad at himself for not saving it, I don't want to see him showing frustration.

 

Ya man.  I also hate teammates who slap their stick on the ice asking/demanding a pass.  But almost always creates too much noise and gets covered instantly.  But you feel obligated to pass to him anyways...

[JTech780]

10 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Pardon me but I believe this to be a hot garbage post. No goaltender in the league was going to win that game for the Flames last night. Did you watch it or just pick up the stats page this morning? Smith took one on the chin for his teams poor play last evening. BP should have pulled Smith after being bombarded in the first 7 minutes when the score was still 0-0 because the team did not deserve Smith in net.

 

 

How should of he have had it when his dman deflected it plus screened his goaltender? Every goaltender in the league reacts that way in the same circumstances.

 

I watched the game, the 1st goal wasn't deflected or screened Smith just missed it and the 4th goal Smith bobbled the puck behind his net and took his sweet time getting back into the net.  If he makes those 2 saves it is a completely different game. 

 

Outside of his shutout he has an .809 save %, that just doesn't cut it. He has given up 4, 4 and 5 goals in those games. You can blame the defense if you want but in those games he faced 24 or fewer shots, so it's not like he was getting bombarded, he was just plain bad. 

[MAC331]

43 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I watched the game, the 1st goal wasn't deflected or screened Smith just missed it and the 4th goal Smith bobbled the puck behind his net and took his sweet time getting back into the net.  If he makes those 2 saves it is a completely different game. 

 

Outside of his shutout he has an .809 save %, that just doesn't cut it. He has given up 4, 4 and 5 goals in those games. You can blame the defense if you want but in those games he faced 24 or fewer shots, so it's not like he was getting bombarded, he was just plain bad. 

You are right JT it doesn't cut it and I hope we don't ride this mule like last season. This should have been Rittich's game to play, get the guy some action so we can all see how he plays this season. We are going to need him.

[cross16]

While I do agree that "hot garbage" is a little extreme because the Flames were not ready to go last night, Smith was not good enough. The Flames deserve to be down but IMO it was Smith's poor play that put it basically out of reach. Most goalies probably hold that game to 3-1 worst case 4-1 because even his stupid puck handling cost the Flames a goal. Being down 3-1 or 4-1 is a different story. 

 

He needs to be better. Period, end of story. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

Pardon me but I believe this to be a hot garbage post. No goaltender in the league was going to win that game for the Flames last night. Did you watch it or just pick up the stats page this morning? Smith took one on the chin for his teams poor play last evening. BP should have pulled Smith after being bombarded in the first 7 minutes when the score was still 0-0 because the team did not deserve Smith in net.

 

 

How should of he have had it when his dman deflected it plus screened his goaltender? Every goaltender in the league reacts that way in the same circumstances.

 

Every player on the team is responsible to help the team.  We all watched the same game, and some are easy to forgive Smith due to the rest of the team not being 100%.  Great argument, but what is his role?  Stop the puck.  He didn't do that when he was absolutely needed to.  Sure, he may get a pass for a few of the goals.  If he chose to not dick around with the puck on the 4th goal, it could have been a different story.  

 

After the 4th goal, perhaps the coach needed to send a message.  You have a team in front of you, so don't think some lax play with the puck is going to cut it.  Stop the puck if there is a reason to, and leave the defensive work for the players.  We don't need to see two risky or more plays every game because you think it's your job to create the offence. 

 

 

[cccsberg]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

While I do agree that "hot garbage" is a little extreme because the Flames were not ready to go last night, Smith was not good enough. The Flames deserve to be down but IMO it was Smith's poor play that put it basically out of reach. Most goalies probably hold that game to 3-1 worst case 4-1 because even his stupid puck handling cost the Flames a goal. Being down 3-1 or 4-1 is a different story. 

 

He needs to be better. Period, end of story. 

The fourth goal was his fault, but saying the game was Smith's fault is laughable.  The Flames were not skating hard till the third, they could not bury multiple glorious chances (penalty shot, 5on3, etc....) before then and the Blues came out hard and determined.  Full marks to them and at least the Flames showed up in the third.

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cccsberg said:

The fourth goal was his fault, but saying the game was Smith's fault is laughable.  The Flames were not skating hard till the third, they could not bury multiple glorious chances (penalty shot, 5on3, etc....) before then and the Blues came out hard and determined.  Full marks to them and at least the Flames showed up in the third.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that any of the loses are all Smith's fault, but to say that he has played well in 3 of the 4 games is laughable. A .809 save% and letting in 4 or more goals in those 3 games just isn't good enough and that isn't all poor defensive play.

[Cowtownguy]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Every player on the team is responsible to help the team.  We all watched the same game, and some are easy to forgive Smith due to the rest of the team not being 100%.  Great argument, but what is his role?  Stop the puck.  He didn't do that when he was absolutely needed to.  Sure, he may get a pass for a few of the goals.  If he chose to not dick around with the puck on the 4th goal, it could have been a different story.  

 

After the 4th goal, perhaps the coach needed to send a message.  You have a team in front of you, so don't think some lax play with the puck is going to cut it.  Stop the puck if there is a reason to, and leave the defensive work for the players.  We don't need to see two risky or more plays every game because you think it's your job to create the offence. 

 

 

The team needs to be more resolute when down a goal or two. Peters needs to implant it in their heads that when they get scored upon, the objective is to get it back quickly. Turn the momentum around immediately. Quenneville clearly preached that to the Hawks before cap implosion.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

The team needs to be more resolute when down a goal or two. Peters needs to implant it in their heads that when they get scored upon, the objective is to get it back quickly. Turn the momentum around immediately. Quenneville clearly preached that to the Hawks before cap implosion.

 

One thing about coaches that bug me is playing the line that just scored a goal next shift.  Reward if you like some other way, but I think it generally ends up being a shift spent chasing.  It's something I notice a lot with this team.  Not always reaults in a goal.  Sometimes it's just a change in momentum.

 

Anyway, I dislike the pantomime from Smith after he gets scored on.  You let in a goal.  Get over it.  I don;t care whose fault you think it is or whether you are PO's at yourself.  Be more determined next shot.  That's all the team wants.

[stubblejumper1]

32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

One thing about coaches that bug me is playing the line that just scored a goal next shift.  Reward if you like some other way, but I think it generally ends up being a shift spent chasing.  It's something I notice a lot with this team.  Not always reaults in a goal.  Sometimes it's just a change in momentum.

 

Anyway, I dislike the pantomime from Smith after he gets scored on.  You let in a goal.  Get over it.  I don;t care whose fault you think it is or whether you are PO's at yourself.  Be more determined next shot.  That's all the team wants.

 

I agree.  These guys are professional and need to act accordingly.  There is a difference between holding eachother accountable and blaming one another.  

 

The first goal was a relatively easy stop.  Smith wiffed on it and tried to blame his d man.  That is a bad look for the team.  

 

Imagine if the d men threw their hands up and looked to the sky every time Smith let in a softie.  

 

Stuff happens.  Move on.

[Horsman1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

One thing about coaches that bug me is playing the line that just scored a goal next shift.  Reward if you like some other way, but I think it generally ends up being a shift spent chasing.  It's something I notice a lot with this team.  Not always reaults in a goal.  Sometimes it's just a change in momentum.

 

Anyway, I dislike the pantomime from Smith after he gets scored on.  You let in a goal.  Get over it.  I don;t care whose fault you think it is or whether you are PO's at yourself.  Be more determined next shot.  That's all the team wants.

Smith is looked upon as one of the leaders on this team.. Is he leading right now?? nope!! he's showing too much emotion that may negatively affect the younger players// When Neal was signed to play here this summer, there wasn't a bigger supporter than Smith.. and yet.. Neither of the two grittiest leaders we have are doing crap yet.. Still finding their way in a new system?? Naw i don't follow that logic.. They were signed specifically for the way they play and their experience.. There is however a huge learning curve with most of the rest of the team and we all knew it was gonna be 20/30 games before we find our groove and consistency.. So.. let's buy a couple extra bottles of Molson for the next couple of months than see what happens.. Should Smith have played the last game?? Damn rights!! there was no question.. Starting goalie craps the bed on first two games, then gets a shutout. so here's hoping he's got it back// There is not a coach this side of Mike Keenan that would have sat Smith last night

 

[7wit]

So I’m thinking Rittich will most likely play next game? St. Louis was motivated after dropping 2 straight at home and the Flames were not ready for the early pressure. It will give this team some motivation and Smith something to think about.

[hockeypriest2]

Let’s just agree that this will be an awfully long season if we need 5+ goals each night to get a “W”.

 

The poster that called Smith “Hot Garbage” was absolutely correct. When Rittich played like that last year the fans and media were all over him.

 

This is supposed to be a 3-2 league...In order for this team to be successful the GAA needs to be below 3.00

 

It looks to me like Smitty has started this season  just like he ended last season and that is not a positive sign for the Flames.

 

[cccsberg]

1 hour ago, hockeypriest2 said:

Let’s just agree that this will be an awfully long season if we need 5+ goals each night to get a “W”.

 

The poster that called Smith “Hot Garbage” was absolutely correct. When Rittich played like that last year the fans and media were all over him.

 

This is supposed to be a 3-2 league...In order for this team to be successful the GAA needs to be below 3.00

 

It looks to me like Smitty has started this season  just like he ended last season and that is not a positive sign for the Flames.

 

The NHL has reduced the goalie equipment to allow more goals.  I'm guessing last year's averages are now irrelevant and it remains to be seen where the new numbers level out.

[MAC331]

19 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

The NHL has reduced the goalie equipment to allow more goals.  I'm guessing last year's averages are now irrelevant and it remains to be seen where the new numbers level out.

I know most will not want to hear this and it is early yet but this may be how our season goes with Smith at 37 years old. BP should be giving some thought towards playing Rittich more often not less. Either way we need to find out if the goaltending will be the killer of our season.

[CheersMan]

2 hours ago, hockeypriest2 said:

Let’s just agree that this will be an awfully long season if we need 5+ goals each night to get a “W”.

 

The poster that called Smith “Hot Garbage” was absolutely correct. When Rittich played like that last year the fans and media were all over him.

 

This is supposed to be a 3-2 league...In order for this team to be successful the GAA needs to be below 3.00

 

It looks to me like Smitty has started this season  just like he ended last season and that is not a positive sign for the Flames.

 

Fickle fans. I guess you forgot the 43 shot save performance for a shutout just a few days ago vs NAS, which is a top 6 team in the league.  

 

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

The NHL has reduced the goalie equipment to allow more goals.  I'm guessing last year's averages are now irrelevant and it remains to be seen where the new numbers level out.

Matthews and Tavares will have a combined 20 goals before EDM plays their home opener.

[cross16]

16 hours ago, cccsberg said:

The fourth goal was his fault, but saying the game was Smith's fault is laughable.  

 

Which no one is doing

[kehatch]

Smith hasn't been very good for three of his four starts this season.  That is a fact.  It isn't a condemnation of Smith, or putting every loss on his shoulder, or excusing the players in front of him, etc.  It is also a fact that he wasn't good in the preseason, to finish last season, and that he is a 36 year old player that hasn't been great since getting hurt.  Fan's have a right to be a bit concerned.  I don't understand why this is such a touchy subject to some people. 

 

That said, the sky isn't falling yet.  Smith may be in the bottom range of goalies this season.  But so is Allen, Fleury, Rask, Jones, Talbot, Anderson, etc. Smith may still have a terrific season.  It just isn't the start that most were hoping for since goal is one of the biggest risks facing the Flames this season.  

[MAC331]

6 minutes ago, kehatch said:

Smith hasn't been very good for three of his four starts this season.  That is a fact.  It isn't a condemnation of Smith, or putting every loss on his shoulder, or excusing the players in front of him, etc.  It is also a fact that he wasn't good in the preseason, to finish last season, and that he is a 36 year old player that hasn't been great since getting hurt.  Fan's have a right to be a bit concerned.  I don't understand why this is such a touchy subject to some people. 

 

That said, the sky isn't falling yet.  Smith may be in the bottom range of goalies this season.  But so is Allen, Fleury, Rask, Jones, Talbot, Anderson, etc. Smith may still have a terrific season.  It just isn't the start that most were hoping for since goal is one of the biggest risks facing the Flames this season.  

Having said this there has been some good developments in other areas of the team. It goes without saying any team won't get very far without out good goaltending. I just want to see a plan develop that uses Rittich more frequently this season. We need to know what we have or don't have for goaltending. We likely have to get further into the season before we see what BP has in mind.

[YounGuns]

20 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Every player on the team is responsible to help the team.  We all watched the same game, and some are easy to forgive Smith due to the rest of the team not being 100%.  Great argument, but what is his role?  Stop the puck.  He didn't do that when he was absolutely needed to.  Sure, he may get a pass for a few of the goals.  If he chose to not dick around with the puck on the 4th goal, it could have been a different story.  

 

After the 4th goal, perhaps the coach needed to send a message.  You have a team in front of you, so don't think some lax play with the puck is going to cut it.  Stop the puck if there is a reason to, and leave the defensive work for the players.  We don't need to see two risky or more plays every game because you think it's your job to create the offence. 

 

 

Although I'm not trying to say Smith had a great game, the same argument of "what is his role?" and how he needs to do it better can be said of the entire team.  What about Monahan in the penalty shot?  Isn't it his role to score on those?  That would have been super helpful when down 3-1 to get a goal there.  Or the inept power play that was just passing around the entire time, isn't it their role to score on the power play?  Or the defense in front of Smith, particularly Andersson and Valimaki who both made numerous positional and panicked errors that ended up with the puck in the net, is it not their job to defend properly?  Is it not the teams role as a unit to come prepared to play for a full 60 minutes rather than just the final period?  (I'm not trying to throw you under the bus here T_D, as you made the same point I'm making so I know you get it too, i'm just reiterating it.)

 

Smith had a bad game, I'll readily admit that, but as some posters have been mentioning he was just one of almost every single player that had a bad team.  We lost that game as a team; that loss is no way on Smith.  Also, let's not forget the 3 incredible saves he shouldn't have had to make to start the game in the opening 5 minutes.  Would Rittich have saved those?  Impossible to know, but again the point is that the team just didn't come out ready to play in front of our goalie.

 

Also we know there will be scary moments with how much Smith plays the puck out of his net, that's just going to happen, but remember last year how he was so effective back there doing that?  It helps out the defense a ton, gets the puck up the ice quickly, catches teams making slow changes, and it helps Smith get in the game.  That's HIS game, he's one of the best tenders in the league at playing the puck, so you don't all of a sudden tell a 36 year old goalie to stop playing his game.  Just know that with that style we'll get burned a few times in a  season...I think that over the course of the season his ability to play the puck will overall really help this team, but I also know it'll count for a few goals against as well.

[YounGuns]

Also, for whatever reason, Smith is TERRIBLE in games after he posts a shut out, i forge the stats, but Hrudey was talking about it before the game.  Peters should have went with the original plan to play Rittich.  But then what happens...if the same team came out in front of Rittich as they did in front of Smith for that game, then all of a sudden our back up is thrown to the wolves, he would have almost certainly lost the game as well with how terrible the entire team played, and then he sits for 4 or 5 more games dwelling on how he lost one of his few chances.

 

Smith needs to be better, but also nearly the entire team needs to be better.  We had one solid game, and 1 sub-par game, and 2 terrible games so far this season.  We need to be better, more consistent, and come to play for a full 60 minutes.

[cccsberg]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

One thing about coaches that bug me is playing the line that just scored a goal next shift.  Reward if you like some other way, but I think it generally ends up being a shift spent chasing.  It's something I notice a lot with this team.  Not always reaults in a goal.  Sometimes it's just a change in momentum.

 

Anyway, I dislike the pantomime from Smith after he gets scored on.  You let in a goal.  Get over it.  I don;t care whose fault you think it is or whether you are PO's at yourself.  Be more determined next shot.  That's all the team wants.

I think that's the very first time I ever noticed that with the Flames.  Usually they go with the 4th line.....

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

I think that's the very first time I ever noticed that with the Flames.  Usually they go with the 4th line.....

 

Actually it's been a very common theme.  Gully would start the 4th line when he was just rolling 4, but most of the time you saw the goal scoring line if they were relatively fresh.  Okay, maybe not most, but I very much noticed it.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, YounGuns said:

...

 

Also we know there will be scary moments with how much Smith plays the puck out of his net, that's just going to happen, but remember last year how he was so effective back there doing that?  It helps out the defense a ton, gets the puck up the ice quickly, catches teams making slow changes, and it helps Smith get in the game.  That's HIS game, he's one of the best tenders in the league at playing the puck, so you don't all of a sudden tell a 36 year old goalie to stop playing his game.  Just know that with that style we'll get burned a few times in a  season...I think that over the course of the season his ability to play the puck will overall really help this team, but I also know it'll count for a few goals against as well.

 

He was effective in stopping the dump in shots.  That helped the team regain possession.  I don;t think anyone has an issue with that.  Doing any more than that puts the defense in a difficult position.  They have to read off Smith.  They have to block out the forwards to give Smith a chance.  The breakout options become limited.  Short pass to the D, where the forecheckers are already in the vicinity.  Longer pass to a forward.  Risky.  Dump out along the glass.  Chance to intercept, go over the glass, lose possession.

 

That's my biggest issue with Smith.  He hasn;t been really good in 3/4 games.