Goaltending

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

He's under contract for 4 more years so they are hoping he can remain a top goalie until he's 39-40 like Brodeur. Raanta is UFA July 1, 2018 & @ 28 will be tired of being in "The King" shadow.

Getting something for him now (the other goalies they can expose amount to little) might even help as it would force LV to take a bigger contract off their hands.

 

You are probably accurate in saying that Raanta will want to be a starter by the time his contact ends.  Losing him to expansion may mean not losing someone else.  

But, there may be someone else they would prefer to lose for nothing.

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

in a situation like Franzens where the player is not going to play or report to camp you can put him on LTIR before the season and be cap compliant day 1. You do not need to be cap complaint with Franzen. 

So Franzen does effectively give them 10 mill in cap space because his LTIR credit is in effect right away before the season opens. They had to do the same thing last year as they were over the cap before training camp 

It didn't work with Pronger. Not even after he was officially on the Flyers roster but also employed by the NHL.

[cross16]

12 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

It didn't work with Pronger. Not even after he was officially on the Flyers roster but also employed by the NHL.

 

It depends on the situation the team is in. If you are under the cap with the LTIR player then you are better to wait and put him on LTIR once the season starts. But if you are over the cap and that will get you under you can do it before the season. Don't know the flyers well enough to know what theirs was but you have options when it comes to LTIR. 

[Flyerfan52]

21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

It depends on the situation the team is in. If you are under the cap with the LTIR player then you are better to wait and put him on LTIR once the season starts. But if you are over the cap and that will get you under you can do it before the season. Don't know the flyers well enough to know what theirs was but you have options when it comes to LTIR. 

The Flyers had to send players down to be compliant. Game day they could call them up.

That only works if you have waiver exempts.

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

The Flyers had to send players down to be compliant. Game day they could call them up.

That only works if you have waiver exempts.

 Sounds like they were sending guys down in order to maximize the LTIR credit. If you can become cap complaint with the injured player that is better but it's not required. 

 

[Flyerfan52]

Just now, cross16 said:

 Sounds like they were sending guys in order to maximize the LTIR credit. If you can become cap complaint with the player that is better but it's not required. 

 

I'll repeat. HAD to send down. Until LTIR was finalized they couldn't ice a full squad.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I'll repeat. HAD to send down. Until LTIR was finalized they couldn't ice a full squad.

 

Didn't have to, but likely wanted too. Scenarios broken down here (with reference to your Flyers)

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/7/3/5865615/flyers-salary-cap-pronger-ltir

 

 

[Cowtownguy]

Am I the only one who thinks that Philipp Grubauer would be a good risk to take? He is young, solid save percentage, and a decent goals against, My assumption is that Washington wants to keep Holtby and may lose PG to expansion. I wonder if a good deal could be made to acquire him and maybe someone like Elliott. Let's face it, we do not have an immediate #1 replacement on the farm, and there are no #1 goalies to acquire without selling the farm. Thus, I think we have to go with two 'tenders next year. I don't like a two-goalie system. I do not think that we have a choice at this point unless there is an angle I am missing.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

Am I the only one who thinks that Philipp Grubauer would be a good risk to take? He is young, solid save percentage, and a decent goals against, My assumption is that Washington wants to keep Holtby and may lose PG to expansion. I wonder if a good deal could be made to acquire him and maybe someone like Elliott. Let's face it, we do not have an immediate #1 replacement on the farm, and there are no #1 goalies to acquire without selling the farm. Thus, I think we have to go with two 'tenders next year. I don't like a two-goalie system. I do not think that we have a choice at this point unless there is an angle I am missing.

 

I think he's definitely a good risk to take.  He's not my favourite, but that's only because I'm assuming he would come with a cost.

 

Stolarz and Saros and Jarry  and Vanecek and Blackwood and Demko may have more upside...again it depends on the price.

 

Gillies could make this all look silly too.   Just depends how he responds to what was a recovery catchup year for him.

 

 

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

Am I the only one who thinks that Philipp Grubauer would be a good risk to take? He is young, solid save percentage, and a decent goals against, My assumption is that Washington wants to keep Holtby and may lose PG to expansion. I wonder if a good deal could be made to acquire him and maybe someone like Elliott. Let's face it, we do not have an immediate #1 replacement on the farm, and there are no #1 goalies to acquire without selling the farm. Thus, I think we have to go with two 'tenders next year. I don't like a two-goalie system. I do not think that we have a choice at this point unless there is an angle I am missing.

This has been one option posted here already and it does make sense. Elliott has the experience we need and Grubauer would be a worthy challenger to our pool of goalie hopefuls. The recognition of games played appears to be the proper measure of both goalies. We know Elliott tops out best between 40 to 45 games so the consideration is can Grubauer effectively fill in the rest. I would be all for this option for us.

[phoenix66]

So based on the all powerful and reliable internet (right ).. you can likely scratch both MAF and Schneider off the list .

MAF's wife was apparently recently house and school hunting in LV..which leads me to believes he's willing to waive for the ED.. and Shero is quoted as saying he's not shopping Schneider.. so if we were to go that route , he WOULD be expensive to Aquire.

Holland in Detroit however has said he hasn't decided what to do with his tenders , so at the moment Mrazek is a possibility(he didnt deny it ..but didnt say it either) .. they hinted that they may protect Jared Coreau and that would leave Mrazek and Howard on the block

So if i had to speculate.. cuz thats what we do here .. i'd say the "#1 starter" list is shriveling... bringing us down to Mrazek, Reimer, and Elliot

Then of course the growing "next one" pile to pick from 

 

Its looking more and more like it will be Elliot .. and as much as I liked Johnson , likely sign a plan B

[MAC331]

40 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

So based on the all powerful and reliable internet (right ).. you can likely scratch both MAF and Schneider off the list .

MAF's wife was apparently recently house and school hunting in LV..which leads me to believes he's willing to waive for the ED.. and Shero is quoted as saying he's not shopping Schneider.. so if we were to go that route , he WOULD be expensive to Aquire.

Holland in Detroit however has said he hasn't decided what to do with his tenders , so at the moment Mrazek is a possibility(he didnt deny it ..but didnt say it either) .. they hinted that they may protect Jared Coreau and that would leave Mrazek and Howard on the block

So if i had to speculate.. cuz thats what we do here .. i'd say the "#1 starter" list is shriveling... bringing us down to Mrazek, Reimer, and Elliot

Then of course the growing "next one" pile to pick from 

 

Its looking more and more like it will be Elliot .. and as much as I liked Johnson , likely sign a plan B

You do know Reimer is signed for a number of years at 3.4M ??? I don't think we would be trading for him.

I would expect DET to hang Howard out there not Mrazek, Coreau could get picked up in the ED.

I don't think MAF or Schneider were serious considerations for us.

[phoenix66]

20 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

You do know Reimer is signed for a number of years at 3.4M ??? I don't think we would be trading for him.

I would expect DET to hang Howard out there not Mrazek, Coreau could get picked up in the ED.

I don't think MAF or Schneider were serious considerations for us.

yup.. 4 to be exact.. great salary for a #1 and I would take him over Elliot. 4 is great term and short enough you still leave the doors open on hour prospects, and cheap enough you can still slot a "plan B" behind him .. personally I think a Reimer and Raanta/Grubauer  would be a kick butt tandem..   likely Florida protects Luongo and exposes Reimer.. who would be very vulnerable

 

and Holland certainly makes it sound like nobody is off the table in these comments.. not saying its a done deal, but it lends to being willing to trade him.. personally, Mrazek is not my first option

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/05/red_wings_ken_holland_no_decis_1.html

[travel_dude]

Listening to rumors and GM's comments prior to the draft is a fool's errand.  GM's positioning, people with nothing else to sell copy, etc.  I am sure there will be some surprise players available.  And MAF's wife going to Vegas is nothing to draw conclusions from.  She could be there on a girl's trip.  Even if she was there to scout out schooling and houses, there's also a good chance she tells MAF no way.  Not like being stuck in EDM in the dead of winter, but you have to wonder how much the city is family oriented.

 

BT has likely called about every single goalie's GM on his "A" list to see what they want for him.  Who we end up with is another story.  I would like to think that we will now on or about June 17th.  And like the Elliott trade, we will probably be surprised.  The backup spot should occur early July, but is also dependent on who they get for the #1 spot.

 

If I had to guess, I would say it's down to Raanta, Grubauer, Saros, Schneider, and Mrazek, assuming the latter three are even available.  If we got one of the first three, the backup/1b spot goes to Mason or Elliott, whoever signs for the cheapest/shortest deal. 

[robrob74]

57 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

You do know Reimer is signed for a number of years at 3.4M ??? I don't think we would be trading for him.

I would expect DET to hang Howard out there not Mrazek, Coreau could get picked up in the ED.

I don't think MAF or Schneider were serious considerations for us.

 

 

Wouldnt Reimer $$ be what Elliott gets?

[JTech780]

This isn't directed at anyone here, but man I am getting tired of all the speculation and debate about our goaltending, let's just get a goaltender already so I can move on with my life.

[MAC331]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

 

Wouldnt Reimer $$ be what Elliott gets?

Hard to say right now.

[MAC331]

Just now, JTech780 said:

This isn't directed at anyone here, but man I getting tired of all the speculation and debate about our goaltending, let's just get a goaltender already so I can move on with my life.

LOL come on JT what else would we do on here.

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

LOL come on JT what else would we do on here.

 

Once we get our goaltending in place we can go back to our normal over analyzing our 4th and 5th round draft picks in the upcoming draft. 

 

Starting to understand what FF52 must go through every year with his Flyers.

 

In all seriousness this goaltedning decision is the biggest move we will make this off season. I truly believe that with better than average goaltending we can be a team that has a good chance of winning the division next year.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

Once we get our goaltending in place we can go back to our normal over analyzing our 4th and 5th round draft picks in the upcoming draft. 

 

Starting to understand what FF52 must go through every year with his Flyers.

 

In all seriousness this goaltedning decision is the biggest move we will make this off season. I truly believe that with better than average goaltending we can be a team that has a good chance of winning the division next year.

 

Spent a good portion of the season complaining about our previous choices.  Spent since the end of the playoffs looking at who was available or who we should be looking at.  

 

The bolded is too true.  Biggest decision this year.  And that's all we seem to be able to be hopeful; better than average goaltending.  Surprisingly, we made the playoffs after a dreadfull start and a bad January.  We were actually one of the few teams in NHL history that made the playoffs that wasn't in a playoff spot by American Thanksgiving.  This with Hiller quality goaltending at times.  Had we had 6 months of March Elliott, we would have been in 1st in the Pacific, if not the West.

 

Goaltending will not solve everthing.  Averaging out the PK.  Limiting pucks available for 2nd and 3rd chances.  Clearing the darn puck on the 1st attempt.  More consistent PP throughout the year.  Utilizing players based on their abilities, not trying to just get them going.  Just a few things that are just as effective with average goaltending as a star goalie is by themselves.  

 

[phoenix66]

52 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

LOL come on JT what else would we do on here.

I often wonder if this is what it's like to sit in on a GM/Scouts meeting .. I've heard they get pretty heated..in a good way

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Once we get our goaltending in place we can go back to our normal over analyzing our 4th and 5th round draft picks in the upcoming draft. 

 

Starting to understand what FF52 must go through every year with his Flyers.

 

In all seriousness this goaltedning decision is the biggest move we will make this off season. I truly believe that with better than average goaltending we can be a team that has a good chance of winning the division next year.

 

Just have to ask this question about the expansion draft.  June 17th at 3pm EDT, the teams have to supply their protection list to the NHL(not the exposure one due on the 18th at 8am).  We don't have any goalies that qualify for that.  What happens if we don't have one by then?

[phoenix66]

58 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Just have to ask this question about the expansion draft.  June 17th at 3pm EDT, the teams have to supply their protection list to the NHL(not the exposure one due on the 18th at 8am).  We don't have any goalies that qualify for that.  What happens if we don't have one by then?

we do,,Tom Mccollum will be exposed.. we dont have to protect one

 

thats actually interesting .. we are the only team who doesn't have a goalie to protect .. we can trade for a Plan B and potentially worry about #1 later 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

we do,,Tom Mccollum will be exposed.. we dont have to protect one

 

Sorry, but that is only one side of the equation.

 

For teams already in the league, they will have to submit a protected players list that Vegas won’t be able to draft from. To do this, they will have two options.

They can either choose to protect:

1. Seven forwards, three defencemen and one goaltender
2. Eight skaters (forwards or defencemen) and one goaltender.

Players who currently have no-movement clauses as a part of their contracts at the time of the Expansion Draft (and refuse to waive it) have to be protected by their respective franchise and will count towards the team’s protected list.

To add to that, all first and second-year professional skaters (including unsigned draft picks) will not be available for Vegas to select from and won’t be counted as part of the protected player’s list.

Clubs must submit their protected lists by 5:00 p.m. eastern standard time on Saturday, June 17, 2017.

 

So, my question remains.  What is the penalty for not having enough players to protect; ie. no goalie.

[phoenix66]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sorry, but that is only one side of the equation.

 

For teams already in the league, they will have to submit a protected players list that Vegas won’t be able to draft from. To do this, they will have two options.

They can either choose to protect:

1. Seven forwards, three defencemen and one goaltender
2. Eight skaters (forwards or defencemen) and one goaltender.

Players who currently have no-movement clauses as a part of their contracts at the time of the Expansion Draft (and refuse to waive it) have to be protected by their respective franchise and will count towards the team’s protected list.

To add to that, all first and second-year professional skaters (including unsigned draft picks) will not be available for Vegas to select from and won’t be counted as part of the protected player’s list.

Clubs must submit their protected lists by 5:00 p.m. eastern standard time on Saturday, June 17, 2017.

 

So, my question remains.  What is the penalty for not having enough players to protect; ie. no goalie.

the bolded are the key words.. there is no rule that states they MUST protect one(unless they have NMC), just that they are allowed to . Therefore there is no penalty for not protecting one.

Now, if we didn't pony up one to expose, that would be likely incur a major penalty from the league.. tho nobody has ever said what that is