Goaltending

[darth_henning]

 

No wins this year. Team isn't playing well in front of him for whatever reason. You can't just dismiss the lack of wins because he is playing better.

 

 

Actually Yes, yes you should. 

 

Even Stanley Cup winning teams get shut out during their season. Even in front of their starting goaltender. The team failing to score has little to nothing to do with their tender. 

 

If he hasn't played like a starter why does he deserve to be the starter?

 

Because of our three uninjured options: 

 

Ortio isn't playing like a starter, but looks like a decent backup. 

 

Hiller looks like a bad AHL goalie, and at this point doesn't even deserve to be playing in the NHL quite bluntly. 

 

Backstrom hasn't played in over a year. We have no idea what he's able to bring. You could maybe argue he gets a couple games to find out if he can play like he used to or not. 

 

Of the three options, the only one that is a known NHL-caliber quantity currently is Ortio. He's not playing like a starter, and if we HAD a starter then he wouldn't get the starts. But we don't, and with him as the best available option, you go with it. 

[conundrumed]

Hard to watch, so I'd prefer to look at the farm

Gillies

MacDonald

Ortio

Poulin

Schneider

 

We do have depth here and a pretty decent cross section in age.

With Gillies, you never want a goalie missing that time so early, but it's no different than Bennett. Lingering issue, finishing it once and for all being so young is the best approach.

Poulin's pretty much a journeyman at this point, not to compare, but so was Tim Thomas.

Schneider was a big surprise in camp, I thought he looked quite good.

The only real question for me is do we let Ortio walk? I'd vote yes, but with consternation.

If you can't cover the top of the net adequately at this time, I'm not sure you can fix mechanics in a short time.

 

All in all, the net has totally collapsed. But looking forward, I don't think it's all doom and gloom.

Goalies want to play, and we have openings.

The Bishops and Holtbys are out there, it's a good time to look at using this as an opportunity, not more fill-ins and chaos.

[darth_henning]

I think Ortio can be had for 1mil or less at this point. I'd be willing to pay that based on his post-call-up performance. Worst case scenario its a salary we can afford to bury if he regresses (though as a note, his first 8 games this year are better than the first 8 games played than either Ramo or Hiller this season...)

 

But we have to look externally for a starter. Unless Backstrom shows he's somehow managed to retain form, which is ridiculously unlikely, but admittedly would be amazing.

 

Hiller shouldn't see an NHL net from anywhere but the stands ever again.

Ramo's injury could be career-altering, and will take up a lot of salary if we keep him. (unfortunate)

Gillies/MacDonald aren't ready for NHL starter duties.

The others I think at best project to backups. 

[conundrumed]

I think Ortio can be had for 1mil or less at this point. I'd be willing to pay that based on his post-call-up performance. Worst case scenario its a salary we can afford to bury if he regresses (though as a note, his first 8 games this year are better than the first 8 games played than either Ramo or Hiller this season...)

 

But we have to look externally for a starter. Unless Backstrom shows he's somehow managed to retain form, which is ridiculously unlikely, but admittedly would be amazing.

 

Hiller shouldn't see an NHL net from anywhere but the stands ever again.

Ramo's injury could be career-altering, and will take up a lot of salary if we keep him. (unfortunate)

Gillies/MacDonald aren't ready for NHL starter duties.

The others I think at best project to backups. 

These are projections though, and things can change quickly. My worry is we crowd the net again and suddenly opportunity disappears due to contracts.

We say Gillies lost a year, but that isn't necessarily so. Goaltending is a mental game, so watching and analyzing can be a good thing.

He'll be seeing lots of rubber in the summer so we can only wait and not jump to the negative. His hip issue went on for awhile. It won't be a concern anymore so that too will be a bonus.

Many a goalie has had that procedure without lingering effect, so even the training it back is well documented.

Tomas Greiss for $1mil 2 years ago sure looks like it would've helped. I doubt the Isles want to keep Halak at this point, I know I wouldn't.

[MAC331]

I think Ortio can be had for 1mil or less at this point. I'd be willing to pay that based on his post-call-up performance. Worst case scenario its a salary we can afford to bury if he regresses (though as a note, his first 8 games this year are better than the first 8 games played than either Ramo or Hiller this season...)

 

But we have to look externally for a starter. Unless Backstrom shows he's somehow managed to retain form, which is ridiculously unlikely, but admittedly would be amazing.

 

Hiller shouldn't see an NHL net from anywhere but the stands ever again.

Ramo's injury could be career-altering, and will take up a lot of salary if we keep him. (unfortunate)

Gillies/MacDonald aren't ready for NHL starter duties.

The others I think at best project to backups. 

I don't think Backstrom will be a consideration for next season by the Flames.

[darth_henning]

These are projections though, and things can change quickly. My worry is we crowd the net again and suddenly opportunity disappears due to contracts.

We say Gillies lost a year, but that isn't necessarily so. Goaltending is a mental game, so watching and analyzing can be a good thing.

He'll be seeing lots of rubber in the summer so we can only wait and not jump to the negative. His hip issue went on for awhile. It won't be a concern anymore so that too will be a bonus.

Many a goalie has had that procedure without lingering effect, so even the training it back is well documented.

Tomas Greiss for $1mil 2 years ago sure looks like it would've helped. I doubt the Isles want to keep Halak at this point, I know I wouldn't.

 

We do have to be careful with the contracts. No question there. 

 

As we learned with Raymond, Bollig, Smid, Engellend and Wideman (and even Stajan); length contracts for stop-gap players can become a problem quickly if things exceed expectations. 

 

I doubt Gillies is ready this year. At the absolute earliest 17/18, but probably 18/19. So if we go for an external goalie (around 4-5 mil is what we can afford right now), it has to be a 2 year contract so it can be moved easily if/when Gillies is ready or when we can afford to trade for a #1 starter at a higher price tag. 

 

Whoever is our starter next year is only a temporary measure and must be contracted as so. 

I don't think Backstrom will be a consideration for next season by the Flames.

 

Oh I highly doubt it. 

 

I'm just saying if he comes in an puts out like 4 straight shutouts, then we kinda have to look at that. 

 

But realistically that's not going to happen. Just pointing out that it would be a hilarious bit of luck in a season where we've had none. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

Ya I posted about this in the GDT, it's just ridiculous this loyalty to hiller.

[conundrumed]

 

I'm just saying if he comes in an puts out like 4 straight shutouts, then we kinda have to look at that. 

 

But realistically that's not going to happen. Just pointing out that it would be a hilarious bit of luck in a season where we've had none. 

I dream of how good Backstrom once was. Him and Iggy had epic battles.

He always played like you offended him, and I always love that in goalies.

That's a lot of water under the bridge now, but perchance to dream, we sure could use a "feel good" story.

[travel_dude]

Link to story about three options in net:

 

http://www.thescore.com/news/974351

[conundrumed]

Link to story about three options in net:

 

http://www.thescore.com/news/974351

Of the 3, I'd like the most expensive.

I agree Bishop is a #1 and would outright solve the problem. But that's gonna take some cold hard cash.

Worth it, undoubtedly.

With Reimer and Andersson, I don't have much interest. I view them as spinning tires rather than resolution.

As an aside, I thought Vasilevsky was under-ranked at the draft and wouldn't have taken issue if we took him 10 picks above his ranking.

Our 'tending was in turbidity, would have been a nice addition.

[phoenix66]

In terms of goaltending this year , i recall somebody mentioned that Ortio shows as "emergency Call up"  .. what happens when Wideman returns and we lose that Roster exemption spot.. do we have to send Ortio down ?.. can we just waive Hiller Instead and send him down ?  or does it have to be the same position , like a defenseman?

[travel_dude]

In terms of goaltending this year , i recall somebody mentioned that Ortio shows as "emergency Call up"  .. what happens when Wideman returns and we lose that Roster exemption spot.. do we have to send Ortio down ?.. can we just waive Hiller Instead and send him down ?  or does it have to be the same position , like a defenseman?

 

He has to be converted to a regular callup once Backstrom gets the all-healthy vote.  I suspect it may have already happened.  Ortio had nothing to do with Wideman.  

[phoenix66]

He has to be converted to a regular callup once Backstrom gets the all-healthy vote.  I suspect it may have already happened.  Ortio had nothing to do with Wideman.  

ok cool in that respect...  but we do have to drop a player.. so lets hope hiller is the plan...sending anybody else makes no sense

[cross16]

ok cool in that respect...  but we do have to drop a player.. so lets hope hiller is the plan...sending anybody else makes no sense

 

 

As TD mentioned Wideman and Ortio are seperate issues. Ortio was an emergency call up becuase the Flames didn't have 2 goalies they could dress when Ramo went down, Wideman was not part of that.

 

Rosters expand after the TDL so Flames can active Wideman and don't need to send someone down. The only possible scenario would be having to send down Nadkladl if he was an emergency call up for Wideman but I don't believe that he was but i'm not positive. 

[travel_dude]

ok cool in that respect...  but we do have to drop a player.. so lets hope hiller is the plan...sending anybody else makes no sense

 

We have no extras right now, so Ortio + Wideman is still fine.  Actually have one more free spot.

12F

6D

3G

 

Wideman (once he comes back)

 

Total = 22 roster spots.  Only have 2 more callups available.  I think Spoon was the emergency D callup, but may just have been Russell.  

[Krule]

Of the 3, I'd like the most expensive.

I agree Bishop is a #1 and would outright solve the problem. But that's gonna take some cold hard cash.

Worth it, undoubtedly.

With Reimer and Andersson, I don't have much interest. I view them as spinning tires rather than resolution.

As an aside, I thought Vasilevsky was under-ranked at the draft and wouldn't have taken issue if we took him 10 picks above his ranking.

Our 'tending was in turbidity, would have been a nice addition.

 

I can get on board with this addition to our team. Totally worth whatever it takes to get him here to don Red threads!

 

Before next season, I see Hiller and Ramo gone. Backstrom as well. Sign Ortio to a 1 year show me contract and let him be the backup to Bishop. Gilles becomes the number 1 in Stockton with Poulin as the backup there. 

[JTech780]

Link to story about three options in net:

 

http://www.thescore.com/news/974351

 

Bishop is by far the best option of the 3, but I have my worries about paying so much to acquire him and then he leaves at the end of the year. I would be willing to pay a little more in the trade to have the opportunity to gauge Bishop's interest in signing a contract extension. My guess is that if the Dallas pick becomes a 1st that's the starting point for the trade. Otherwise it would be built around multiple 2nd round picks.

[420since1974]

The required Qualifying Offer for Orito is only $660k.

[Krule]

Bishop is by far the best option of the 3, but I have my worries about paying so much to acquire him and then he leaves at the end of the year. I would be willing to pay a little more in the trade to have the opportunity to gauge Bishop's interest in signing a contract extension. My guess is that if the Dallas pick becomes a 1st that's the starting point for the trade. Otherwise it would be built around multiple 2nd round picks.

 

If this is where the Flames are looking, I would hope BT realizes that an extension would have to be a part of the discussion.

[conundrumed]

Tampa's so dynamic, I'd hate to be Stevie Y between Stammer or Bishop, I don't think there is a right choice.

[cross16]

Ortio confirmed to start Satruday. 

[phoenix66]

We have no extras right now, so Ortio + Wideman is still fine.  Actually have one more free spot.

12F

6D

3G

 

Wideman (once he comes back)

 

Total = 22 roster spots.  Only have 2 more callups available.  I think Spoon was the emergency D callup, but may just have been Russell.  

hmm.. i had added wrong , and forgot to take IR on Smid and Ramo ..my bad

[jjgallow]

Of the 3, I'd like the most expensive.

I agree Bishop is a #1 and would outright solve the problem. But that's gonna take some cold hard cash.

Worth it, undoubtedly.

With Reimer and Andersson, I don't have much interest. I view them as spinning tires rather than resolution.

As an aside, I thought Vasilevsky was under-ranked at the draft and wouldn't have taken issue if we took him 10 picks above his ranking.

Our 'tending was in turbidity, would have been a nice addition.

 

What's the point of bringing new goalies in if Hartley just keeps playing Hiller?

 

We already have options and we don't utilize them...just saying.

[travel_dude]

What's the point of bringing new goalies in if Hartley just keeps playing Hiller?

 

We already have options and we don't utilize them...just saying.

 

You do know that Hiller and Ramo (and Ortio) do not have contracts next year, right?

 

Sign a #1 goalie and they will play here.  Sign Ortio as a backup, and he will see 20 games at least, if the schedule has his name written down on it.

[conundrumed]

You do know that Hiller and Ramo (and Ortio) do not have contracts next year, right?

 

Sign a #1 goalie and they will play here.  Sign Ortio as a backup, and he will see 20 games at least, if the schedule has his name written down on it.

Let it go.