Goaltending

[Wreckening]

Less than stellar performance by Ramo tonight. No way this game should have been that close. I like the idea of hiring Burke as the new goalie coach. Treliving would be very familiar with his work.

[tmac70]

Less than stellar performance by Ramo tonight. No way this game should have been that close. I like the idea of hiring Burke as the new goalie coach. Treliving would be very familiar with his work.

I agree he should have had the Hall goal and maybe the Davidson one. There was no way in hell anyone stops that Drasitli goal, or the 2nd PP goal. Our goal tending is struggling to put it mildly, but Ramo IMHO is a far better choice than Ortio.

[jjgallow]

I agree he should have had the Hall goal and maybe the Davidson one. There was no way in hell anyone stops that Drasitli goal, or the 2nd PP goal. Our goal tending is struggling to put it mildly, but Ramo IMHO is a far better choice than Ortio.

 

How is that exactly?   Ramo and Ortio both have idential save percentages and GAA this year:   .868   and 4.27.

 

 

Both have struggled.  But at least in the case of Ortio, he was the colder of the two, and has started in half as many games.

 

Ortio's last game was pretty bad...against Montreal. 

 

Karri  Ramo struglled just as bad...against Edmonton.

 

 

At the end of the day I don't see any meaningful advantage between the two, but Ortio is a heck of a lot more likely to improve and develop than a 29 year old.   Give Ortio his 10 starts, and then we can talk about his worth.

[CheersMan]

After allowing 6 deflating goals against the Canadians this mighty be our opportunity to slip Ortio through waivers and send to Stockton.  I guess it depends how long Hiller needs to heel.

[travel_dude]

I agree he should have had the Hall goal and maybe the Davidson one. There was no way in hell anyone stops that Drasitli goal, or the 2nd PP goal. Our goal tending is struggling to put it mildly, but Ramo IMHO is a far better choice than Ortio.

 

The Davidson goal was as close to impossible to stop as you can get.  Unless you are Gillies or Bishop or some other 6'4" or taller goalie.  Ortio doesn't make that save nor would Hiller.  The shot was 93 km/h from the circle.  Far enough away to give the shooter enough space in the top of the net.  Too close to give time to react.

 

Three goalies and Ramo is the only one to get a regulation win.  Ortio didn't get a chance when he could have done better, but Ramo needs to get the next start.  He has a chance to step up.  He has a little bit of confidence from his first win.  We wasn't bad on really any of the goals.  The coach and team seem to have confidence in him, but will need to fix the defending on PK's.  Too much space still being given.  The Oilers were sneaking into free areas that could have been even more dangerous.

[robrob1974]

Ortio probably wouldn't have done any better. Up until the last few games the team has been playing so bad that any goalie you put in there would fair the same.

How many errors resulted in goals and how many goals for have we got until recently. Simple math says as a team we weren't going to win a lot of those games.

[MAC331]

Ortio probably wouldn't have done any better. Up until the last few games the team has been playing so bad that any goalie you put in there would fair the same.

How many errors resulted in goals and how many goals for have we got until recently. Simple math says as a team we weren't going to win a lot of those games.

All our going go down with everything coming at them, what ever happened to stand up and make yourself big as possible. All these over the shoulder goals should be stoppable.

[robrob1974]

Ya, that's what I noticed about Ortio, even in games he was winning last year. He goes down so quick.

Holler has been playing from his knees all the time. Once he is down, he stays there.

[SiouX_17]

I agree he should have had the Hall goal and maybe the Davidson one. There was no way in hell anyone stops that Drasitli goal, or the 2nd PP goal. Our goal tending is struggling to put it mildly, but Ramo IMHO is a far better choice than Ortio.

this is so amusing.. can you explain, how should he stop [ or, at least, anticipate] the shot deflected accidentaly off the STICK ? he was there for the initial save and he would have stopped that shot from RNH, but there`s no goalie on the world who would save that puck on purpose, knowing where will it go..

 

and that rocket from Davidson, are you serious? it was a one timer off a perfectly timed pass, it was from the top circle point, and it was A BOMB.. additionally, there was mr. Wideman creating a nice screen right in front of Ramo.. and it went almost perfectly in the top corner, just a couple of inches below..

 

I guarantee you, even in a perfect scenario, let`s say practice, when there won`t be anyone screening goalie`s vision, a one-timer shot from that point, with such velocity and placed in the top corner above the blocker, nobody will stop it.. 95 times out of 100.

how many of you guys have actually stood in net, like ONCE?

 

MOST of the goals we allowed were due to lack of [or very weak] coverage in the D zone..

but having said that, I DO agree with all of you saying our goaltending was not stellar in any game so far and the whole situation with coming to the season with 3 goalies and their rotation by BH caused a lot of unnecessary distraction and should have been addressed way sooner..

[AlbertaBoy12]

this is so amusing.. can you explain, how should he stop [ or, at least, anticipate] the shot deflected accidentaly off the STICK ? he was there for the initial save and he would have stopped that shot from RNH, but there`s no goalie on the world who would save that puck on purpose, knowing where will it go..

 

and that rocket from Davidson, are you serious? it was a one timer off a perfectly timed pass, it was from the top circle point, and it was A BOMB.. additionally, there was mr. Wideman creating a nice screen right in front of Ramo.. and it went almost perfectly in the top corner, just a couple of inches below..

 

I guarantee you, even in a perfect scenario, let`s say practice, when there won`t be anyone screening goalie`s vision, a one-timer shot from that point, with such velocity and placed in the top corner above the blocker, nobody will stop it.. 95 times out of 100.

how many of you guys have actually stood in net, like ONCE?

 

MOST of the goals we allowed were due to lack of [or very weak] coverage in the D zone..

but having said that, I DO agree with all of you saying our goaltending was not stellar in any game so far and the whole situation with coming to the season with 3 goalies and their rotation by BH caused a lot of unnecessary distraction and should have been addressed way sooner..

Have you stood in the net before? 

 

Regardless if someone said that those goals were weak, there has been plenty of weak goals, and D zone coverage is never going to be perfect doesnt mean your goalie doesnt make the save.

[Zirakzigil]

Ramo was fine last night. Played good enough for the Flames to win. None of the current 3 goalies are going to steal games on a consistent basis. Flames need to fix their issues in their own zone and these games wont be close. 

[DirtyDeeds]

this is so amusing...........

 

I guarantee you, even in a perfect scenario, let`s say practice, when there won`t be anyone screening goalie`s vision, a one-timer shot from that point, with such velocity and placed in the top corner above the blocker, nobody will stop it.. 95 times out of 100.

how many of you guys have actually stood in net, like ONCE?

 

MOST of the goals we allowed were due to lack of [or very weak] coverage in the D zone......

Raises hand. All my years in minor hockey were in net.

 

Posters don't have to have played the position to understand most of the basic principles involved or styles of goaltenders. It helps to have played and anyone would only have to make a point of studying the fundamentals.

[SiouX_17]

Have you stood in the net before? 

 

Regardless if someone said that those goals were weak, there has been plenty of weak goals, and D zone coverage is never going to be perfect doesnt mean your goalie doesnt make the save.

it`s irrelevant, but I played before amazing and terrible goalies, as well, so I know what difference does it make when you don`t have to worry about every single shot coming at your goalie..

 

I agree, D zone is never going to be perfect, be ours was far away from it, too.. and, your goalie will also not make the save he has no chance of making..

it`s all connected, it`s not just how our goalies performed and you cannot blame a goalie for every single goal allowed, even though there were plenty of weak goals.. it all comes to this: among all players, your goalie is the last one trying to stop the puck, but he is the only one who cannot score a goal, but you have another 18 players capable of doing so.. [yes, technically, he can, but.. ]

 

yet again, we needed key saves in games, but they just weren`t there to be made most of the times..

[SiouX_17]

Raises hand. All my years in minor hockey were in net.

 

Posters don't have to have played the position to understand most of the basic principles involved or styles of goaltenders. It helps to have played and anyone would only have to make a point of studying the fundamentals.

so, based on what you stated, should Ramo saved those specific 2 goals, or is he the one to blame? 

 

..you played the game in net, you know you can study as much as you want, but put on your pads, glove and a blocker and it will suddenly all look a bit different..

[DirtyDeeds]

so, based on what you stated, should Ramo saved those specific 2 goals, or is he the one to blame? 

 

..you played the game in net, you know you can study as much as you want, but put on your pads, glove and a blocker and it will suddenly all look a bit different..

Hockey is a team game. The team shoulders any blame for losses even if only one or two players did not perform well enough. The only thing different with a goaltender, is he is the last line of the defence. That makes his play that much more important.

 

It is irrelevant now about Ramo saving those particular shots or goals. He only played well enough to allow the team to win by a fluke goal with what 8 seconds remaining.

[JTech780]

Aaron Vickers (@AAVickers) tweeted at 10:34 AM on Mon, Nov 02, 2015:

Ramo in the starters net in practice this AM...have to think he's the probable starter versus Colorado. #Flames

Time for Ramo to run with it and earn his contract.

[kehatch]

I can't fault Ramo starting. Letting in 4 goals isn't a great performance. But he won. Got to hold onto any positive in net right now.

[travel_dude]

I can't fault Ramo starting. Letting in 4 goals isn't a great performance. But he won. Got to hold onto any positive in net right now.

 

Had Ortio provided at least a reasonable performance and not let in some stinkers, he would have been the obvious choice to start against Colorado, based on his 1-0 win in the pre-season.

 

That was then, this is now.  Ramo kept us in the game long enough to win on offense.  A second start should give him a modicum of confidence.  Let's hope he takes it to a waiving of Hiller.  We need some wins in the bank before we can risk going back to Ortio.  If there was an efficient way of doing it, I would send Ortio down for conditioning (bring up a backup).  

[JTech780]

My guess is that Ortio gets waived when Hiller comes back, unless he has a stellar game or two between now and then. I think he has a much better chance at clearing now then he did at the start of the year.

[travel_dude]

My guess is that Ortio gets waived when Hiller comes back, unless he has a stellar game or two between now and then. I think he has a much better chance at clearing now then he did at the start of the year.

 

I just can't see them waiving him now.  The Montreal game was a horrible performance, but no more so than some of the stinky games Hiller or Ramo has had.  The easiest solution (not necessarily the right one) is to return Ramo to the AHL, since he is still under the original waiver.

 

It's not really fair to base a potential loss of a player to waivers based on one game.  He may pass through, but a desperate team may claim him.  Then what?  We are stuck with the two guys that have failed this season, instead of having one guy that failed one game.

[JTech780]

I just can't see them waiving him now. The Montreal game was a horrible performance, but no more so than some of the stinky games Hiller or Ramo has had. The easiest solution (not necessarily the right one) is to return Ramo to the AHL, since he is still under the original waiver.

It's not really fair to base a potential loss of a player to waivers based on one game. He may pass through, but a desperate team may claim him. Then what? We are stuck with the two guys that have failed this season, instead of having one guy that failed one game.

I don't have a whole lot of faith on any of the 3 so to me it really doesn't matter who gets sent down. Hiller is the only goalie with any kind of track record so I see him as more of an answer than the other 2. I have made my feelings on Ramo pretty well known so I won't go into that rant again. Ortio has the most upside that is obvious, but he still has some learning to do and some consistency issues to work out at the end of the day is it best to do that at the NHL level or down to Stockton and let Gillies and Ortio push each other.. I am not sure what the right answer is I just don't think Hartley has confidence in Ortio and I don't think that is a good scenario for a young goalie.

[travel_dude]

I don't have a whole lot of faith on any of the 3 so to me it really doesn't matter who gets sent down. Hiller is the only goalie with any kind of track record so I see him as more of an answer than the other 2. I have made my feelings on Ramo pretty well known so I won't go into that rant again. Ortio has the most upside that is obvious, but he still has some learning to do and some consistency issues to work out at the end of the day is it best to do that at the NHL level or down to Stockton and let Gillies and Ortio push each other.. I am not sure what the right answer is I just don't think Hartley has confidence in Ortio and I don't think that is a good scenario for a young goalie.

 

Hartley not having faith is a coaching issue.  The team hung him out to dry.

 

Hiller's injury forces the issue a bit, since Ramo can only play so many games in a row.  This week isn't an issue, but next week it goes Tuesday, Thurs, Friday with the Lightning and Caps back-to-back.  Then the Hawks on Sunday.  Even if Hiller came back this week, he is not going to be in game shape to face the best of the East.

 

TBH, I don't know the answer.  We have two healthy goalies.  One has played 60 minutes in a bad loss and two period at 100% saves.  

[CheersMan]

Hockey is a team game. The team shoulders any blame for losses even if only one or two players did not perform well enough. The only thing different with a goaltender, is he is the last line of the defence. That makes his play that much more important.

 

It is irrelevant now about Ramo saving those particular shots or goals. He only played well enough to allow the team to win by a fluke goal with what 8 seconds remaining.

 

More importantly, Ramo did not let in any stinkers.  Sure 4 got past him but none were the type that made you say OMG.  As far as the fluky goal goes to win the game, 100% of the shots you don’t make never go in, it’s never a bad idea to direct the puck at the net.  Byfug got one like that against us a couple weeks ago, and you see other players trying it all the time.  A very high percentage of all NHL goals could be considered fluky in some way or another.

[s4xon]

I haven't been the biggest Ortio fan.  It's no secret.  I've been waiting patiently for Gillies to develop since draft day, and I certainly haven't been disappointed.

[travel_dude]

I haven't been the biggest Ortio fan.  It's no secret.  I've been waiting patiently for Gillies to develop since draft day, and I certainly haven't been disappointed.

 

 

Gillies is the future for goaltending in Calgary.  McDonald may be a quality AHL'er, a NHL backup or a starter, but that is years away.

He's still in that voodoo age for goalies.  

 

But we can't very well expect Gillies to factor into Calgary this season.  Next year maybe (hopefully).  It would be nice to have a set of developed goalies that can give us better than league average goaltending.