Goaltending

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

And that's the point isn't it.  The D are usually better at judging that.  When they have the puck they have many options.  When Smith decides to fire the puck on glass, he is making the decision for the team and they have to regroup.  My beef is that most times that clearing attempt doesn't even clear the zone.  When Smith is playing well, the extra shot or two because of the zone not being cleared may not be an issue.  The extra zone time, however, can be taxing on the D.

If this is deemed such a problem to the game plan of the coaches then its on them to instruct Smith to stop doing that and get the puck to his defensemen.

[cross16]

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

If this is deemed such a problem to the game plan of the coaches then its on them to instruct Smith to stop doing that and get the puck to his defensemen.

 

There's very little that they do with Smitty's game.  They spent enough time just getting him to relax and let the play come to him.  They like him playing the puck, and making that first pass.  BP has also publically said that they get in trouble some times with some of the plays.  I would imagine that they review it everytime they look at tape.

 

It's a tough habit to break.  They don't want him to get rid of the things that are good, at the same time, they also don't want to have him overthink everything he does.  It takes 30 days to break a habit to the point of just not doing it.  Work in progress.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Alternate goalies or is this a thing?

Hope for a big game from Smith; he seems to be very good at home over this season, so not a bad choice.

 

[MAC331]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

There's very little that they do with Smitty's game.  They spent enough time just getting him to relax and let the play come to him.  They like him playing the puck, and making that first pass.  BP has also publically said that they get in trouble some times with some of the plays.  I would imagine that they review it everytime they look at tape.

 

It's a tough habit to break.  They don't want him to get rid of the things that are good, at the same time, they also don't want to have him overthink everything he does.  It takes 30 days to break a habit to the point of just not doing it.  Work in progress.

I don't think we will see Smith change at all.

[Pyromancer]

The farms....promote or acquire if need be?

 

Stockton Heat

KC Mavericks

[JTech780]

If Smith is injured, is it best to call up Gillies who has been struggling in the AHL, or to look outside the organization? Arizona is carrying 3 goalies right now maybe we can get Calvin Pickard from them.

 

Not sure which is the best way to go. Pickard is struggling this year, but at least he has some NHL experience. Gillies is also struggling and he doesn't have much NHL experience, but maybe getting the call up could bring back his confidence.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

If Smith is injured, is it best to call up Gillies who has been struggling in the AHL, or to look outside the organization? Arizona is carrying 3 goalies right now maybe we can get Calvin Pickard from them.

 

Not sure which is the best way to go. Pickard is struggling this year, but at least he has some NHL experience. Gillies is also struggling and he doesn't have much NHL experience, but maybe getting the call up could bring back his confidence.

 

If it's an injury, then you have to look at a NHL goalie.

High risk, but the worse thing is to do nothing.

You go to Gillies and he can;t do the job, then what?

 

Got nothing against Gillies, and maybe he's ready, but my gord this seems so familiar.

 

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If it's an injury, then you have to look at a NHL goalie.

High risk, but the worse thing is to do nothing.

You go to Gillies and he can;t do the job, then what?

 

Got nothing against Gillies, and maybe he's ready, but my gord this seems so familiar.

 

I think you go to your own pipeline first. We can't keep saying Gilles isn't ready when he is 25. If he stinks you may have your answer for a significant change required.

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think you go to your own pipeline first. We can't keep saying Gilles isn't ready when he is 25. If he stinks you may have your answer for a significant change required.

 

Considering he was losing his job to Schneider for a stretch, and been on and off since, it may just be the wrong time to bring him up.

Point is that if he can't win consistently at the AHL level, is he going to have better results in the NHL?  

If this was for a wek or less, you could live with giving Gillies a start and see how he does.

Any longer than that and you have to consider the options.

[MAC331]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Considering he was losing his job to Schneider for a stretch, and been on and off since, it may just be the wrong time to bring him up.

Point is that if he can't win consistently at the AHL level, is he going to have better results in the NHL?  

If this was for a wek or less, you could live with giving Gillies a start and see how he does.

Any longer than that and you have to consider the options.

I don't think that should matter, change of scenario and challenge may be what Gilles needs right now. You aren't ever going to pick the perfect moment in time for these things.

Let Gilles determine how long he stays.

[rocketdoctor]

Best goalie in the AHL right now is Schneider.  So surely you bring him up first.

 

 

[cross16]

Schneider went back to the ECHL so it's pretty unlikely he'd get the call.

 

Just call up Gillies. This is a broken record from me, but you develop depth for a reason so use it. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

Any word on Smith?  If it's anything obvious, then they would be needing to do a series of transaction (recalls etc.).

If Gillies were to come up, would need to send Schneider to cover in AHL.

Flames play Saturday and Sunday.

Heat plays Saturday.

 

Not that I think it's a conspiracy, but it seems weird that the coach didn't know about Smith not being "good to go" until they were getting ready to return to the ice.  A/coach told him Rittih was going in.  That should not have been a surprise, unless it was a nice way of Sigalet shifting the blame from performance to "illness or minor injury".  I don't need to know, just wondering about Smith's status. 

 

[Carty]

Hard to say what is happening with Smith...   Maybe he's got the start of a flu, or another bug...   and I hope that is all the problem is...

 

I've said it before, but I'll add it here again...   I still think that Smith has never been 100% since his injury last February...   He has been looking better lately, but earlier in the season there were quite a few times when he sure did not seem to have his usual mobility...   He didn't have the same lateral quickness. and looked a lot slower getting up after he went down for a save...   Even lately, Smith is looking better, but something is still off...

 

If he has a lingering groin problem, overplaying him could bring an early end to his season...   No doubt Smith wants to play as many games as he can, he would play all of them if it was his choice...   As on old goalie I can say that's how i felt about playing, and I'm sure that the rest of those here that played felt the same way...    The same desire to play no doubt affected my judgement when I had an injury, and I always thought I could play through it and it would just heal up...   and I would always tell coaches or other players on the team it wasn't that bad even when the pain level was getting worse...   I'm also pretty sure there are others here that did the same thing, it's just a desire to play the game and win...

 

Let's all hope this is a minor issue for Smith, and he is back on the ice soon...   But even if he is, if it were up to me I would limit the number of games he plays even if he is doing well...   With Smith being 36 and having a pretty serious injury just last season, Peters has to weigh the odds and not take a gamble that could have a serious impact on the rest of the season...   Rittich is doing just fine with a .921 SV% and 2.31 GAA (actually still better this season than Smith who has a .888 SV% and 2.99 GAA)...   Let him play more often and keep him sharp...   Rittich started out last season pretty well, but wasn't getting that many games in once Smith got hot, and when the Flames had to rely on him when Smith went down it seemed like Rittich had problems with the pressure. and maybe he just wasn't ready for it...   At this point and under the circumstances, let both goalies play often, feed off the competition and try and outdo each other...   If one of them falters, then you lean heavier on the one who is doing a better job keeping the puck out of the net...   But either way you still don't let one sit out long enough that they go cold...

[The_Tribal Chief]

I doubt You Will hear anything today Sounds like Flames are Off there playing Townsand Tiger at Childrens hospital Leading me to beileve We wont hear about Smith until Tomorrow

[travel_dude]

^^^^

Good points Carty.

When I re-watched the 2nd period, and the goal in the 1st, I didn't see anything glaring.

One play, he took longer than normal getting up, but looked fine in his movement.

Seemed quick as recent games.

 

The 4th goal looked like he got mixed up or became disoriented.

Seemed like he had no idea of the angle to cover.

Or just lost confidence.

 

I know it's an off day today so we won't likely hear anything today, and I've been wrong before, but what I think happened was a private conversation between Smith and Sigalet.  His confidence was shaken with the quick goals.  He needed an out, without impacting his next start Saturday or Sunday.

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

I doubt It i something as Simple as he needed a out cause of blunder or bad Game i wish that was the truth but im sorry Im Just not buying what is being sold there

[Carty]

Not trying to pick on Mike Smith, he seems like a good guy, and it would appear from all indications a good team mate as well...   He has made some great saves, and has helped steal a few games going back a ways to last season...   I also believe that if he stays healthy he still has a valuable part to play with the Flames this season...

 

Big butt, get it?...       Realistically it also has to be considered that out of the 45 goaltenders that have played at least 500 minutes, Smith ranks 44th for save percentage while the team is playing 5 vs 5...   I have defended him several times when I thought that poor play in the D zone contributed to a goal or even just left him hung out to dry, but Smith also ranks 42nd out of that group for his save percentage on low danger shots...   In other words he has let in too many softies...

 

The Flames just can't bet the farm on Smith...   The best option right now is to keep Rittich involved and playing regularly, and at the same time find out what he can handle...   They could end up having to lean heavily on Rittich if Smith's play deteriorates, or he goes down with another injury...   Smith could start shutting the door regularly and prove me wrong, and if that happens, that would be great too...   But if it were up to me, I would not bet the farm on it, or the season...

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, Carty said:

Hard to say what is happening with Smith...   Maybe he's got the start of a flu, or another bug...   and I hope that is all the problem is...

 

I've said it before, but I'll add it here again...   I still think that Smith has never been 100% since his injury last February...   He has been looking better lately, but earlier in the season there were quite a few times when he sure did not seem to have his usual mobility...   He didn't have the same lateral quickness. and looked a lot slower getting up after he went down for a save...   Even lately, Smith is looking better, but something is still off...

 

If he has a lingering groin problem, overplaying him could bring an early end to his season...   No doubt Smith wants to play as many games as he can, he would play all of them if it was his choice...   As on old goalie I can say that's how i felt about playing, and I'm sure that the rest of those here that played felt the same way...    The same desire to play no doubt affected my judgement when I had an injury, and I always thought I could play through it and it would just heal up...   and I would always tell coaches or other players on the team it wasn't that bad even when the pain level was getting worse...   I'm also pretty sure there are others here that did the same thing, it's just a desire to play the game and win...

 

Let's all hope this is a minor issue for Smith, and he is back on the ice soon...   But even if he is, if it were up to me I would limit the number of games he plays even if he is doing well...   With Smith being 36 and having a pretty serious injury just last season, Peters has to weigh the odds and not take a gamble that could have a serious impact on the rest of the season...   Rittich is doing just fine with a .921 SV% and 2.31 GAA (actually still better this season than Smith who has a .888 SV% and 2.99 GAA)...   Let him play more often and keep him sharp...   Rittich started out last season pretty well, but wasn't getting that many games in once Smith got hot, and when the Flames had to rely on him when Smith went down it seemed like Rittich had problems with the pressure. and maybe he just wasn't ready for it...   At this point and under the circumstances, let both goalies play often, feed off the competition and try and outdo each other...   If one of them falters, then you lean heavier on the one who is doing a better job keeping the puck out of the net...   But either way you still don't let one sit out long enough that they go cold...

So true Carty, and when you're battling another goalie for starts, you're definitely convincing yourself, "it's not that bad".

Rittich, imho, has been poorly developed since he got with the org. Good thing he was developed well before us.

Gillies was gifted the keys in the A, Rittich played well, never mattered. Backs up Smith last year, played well, didn't matter.

So when Smith went down, we had never handed any keys to Rittich ever, then it gets sprung on him.

Imho, the whole affair was just poor mgmt of him. I honestly credit Rittich this year for taking it on himself that the keys may get handed to him again, and this time, he'll be ready.

 

One concern I have with Smith, is it an injury or his confidence?

He said maybe a month ago, "I've talked to the coaches, family, friends about my struggles" to paraphrase.

We don't need to ride Smith until he fails. But it looks like we were starting to do that after a couple of good wins.

I'm growing more on fire everyday with our goalie coaching.

It's pathetic. Rittich brought all the science, but didn't play much. Gillies is falling through the cracks, Smith pretty much said he's struggling with the mental aspect.

Yet we seem to give him support as, Mike Smith: Legend. Rather than, Mike Smith: Person and Goalie.

Maybe Mason MacDonald would've turned into a goalie elsewhere. Parsons?

 

BT's shortcoming will always be understanding goaltending. So swallow your pride and damn well hire someone that understands it.

Sigalet should change professions and build a peaceable kingdom teaching yoga.

Are we even trying to help our prospect goalies? Because this is extremely suspicious.

[CheersMan]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So true Carty, and when you're battling another goalie for starts, you're definitely convincing yourself, "it's not that bad".

Rittich, imho, has been poorly developed since he got with the org. Good thing he was developed well before us.

Gillies was gifted the keys in the A, Rittich played well, never mattered. Backs up Smith last year, played well, didn't matter.

So when Smith went down, we had never handed any keys to Rittich ever, then it gets sprung on him.

Imho, the whole affair was just poor mgmt of him. I honestly credit Rittich this year for taking it on himself that the keys may get handed to him again, and this time, he'll be ready.

 

One concern I have with Smith, is it an injury or his confidence?

He said maybe a month ago, "I've talked to the coaches, family, friends about my struggles" to paraphrase.

We don't need to ride Smith until he fails. But it looks like we were starting to do that after a couple of good wins.

I'm growing more on fire everyday with our goalie coaching.

It's pathetic. Rittich brought all the science, but didn't play much. Gillies is falling through the cracks, Smith pretty much said he's struggling with the mental aspect.

Yet we seem to give him support as, Mike Smith: Legend. Rather than, Mike Smith: Person and Goalie.

Maybe Mason MacDonald would've turned into a goalie elsewhere. Parsons?

 

BT's shortcoming will always be understanding goaltending. So swallow your pride and damn well hire someone that understands it.

Sigalet should change professions and build a peaceable kingdom teaching yoga.

Are we even trying to help our prospect goalies? Because this is extremely suspicious.

If Gillis was gifted the keys to the A then it was because Rittich out played him, leaving him behind on his way to the Bigs.

Rittich did not arrive here 2.5 yrs ago the goalie that he is today, far from it, otherwise he would’ve shown it well before now. I’ve seen a huge improvement in his play since he arrived with this Org. If I remember correctly over the past couple of seasons, Rittich had issues with his edges, meaning not being able to stay in position between the posts, but rather sliding to far out of position. I also remember this non-existent puck handling skill, handled the puck like a grenade.

We all like Rittich (right now) but please throw some water on your “Rittich vs the World” theory because he had a ton of help from Smith and Sigalet along the way, lets give the Org a little credit.

Sigalet takes it on the chin for all the goaltenders that have failed, but when one does make it (Rittich) he takes it on the chin too, LOL.

It’s now Rittich’s time, lets see what he can do.

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

If Gillis was gifted the keys to the A then it was because Rittich out played him, leaving him behind on his way to the Bigs.

Rittich did not arrive here 2.5 yrs ago the goalie that he is today, far from it, otherwise he would’ve shown it well before now. I’ve seen a huge improvement in his play since he arrived with this Org. If I remember correctly over the past couple of seasons, Rittich had issues with his edges, meaning not being able to stay in position between the posts, but rather sliding to far out of position. I also remember this non-existent puck handling skill, handled the puck like a grenade.

We all like Rittich (right now) but please throw some water on your “Rittich vs the World” theory because he had a ton of help from Smith and Sigalet along the way, lets give the Org a little credit.

Sigalet takes it on the chin for all the goaltenders that have failed, but when one does make it (Rittich) he takes it on the chin too, LOL.

It’s now Rittich’s time, lets see what he can do.

Thanks Mrs Sigalet.

I entirely disagree.

Rittich's mechanics are obvious. You don't get that base, all of a sudden, at 24.

The goaltending philosophy and coaching has been an atrocity.

But I'm sure you have examples to show me how it hasn't been both an albatross and a joke.

Good luck.

[travel_dude]

An interesting footnote from the KHL.

Best goalie of the week - Joni Ortio earned three victories and one shutout (his first in the KHL) with a save percentage of 98,04 as well as averaging 0.67 goals against. 

 

Anyone remember him?

 

[Kiweh]

 

Hopefully not anything serious and Rittich will just start the next few games.  Probably will still need to call up somebody from the farm to keep the bench warm.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, Kiweh said:

 

Hopefully not anything serious and Rittich will just start the next few games.  Probably will still need to call up somebody from the farm to keep the bench warm.

 

I place as much faith in that source as I do in Francis.

As far as the call up goes, should know tomorrow after practice, if there is an announcement of a callup or if Smith's on the ice.