Goaltending

[The_People1]

Mike Smith played well yesterday.  Our D let him down.  If Smith can stay healthy and keep this up, then we have a chance.

[JTech780]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Mike Smith played well yesterday.  Our D let him down.  If Smith can stay healthy and keep this up, then we have a chance.

 

See I thought he was ok. He made the saves he was supposed to, but he just didn't make the big saves we needed to keep us in the game. I am not blaming him for anything, but if we want to be a playoff team we will need Smith to be even better than he was last night.

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

See I thought he was ok. He made the saves he was supposed to, but he just didn't make the big saves we needed to keep us in the game. I am not blaming him for anything, but if we want to be a playoff team we will need Smith to be even better than he was last night.

 

He did stop everything he was supposed to. 

 

No goalie in the league was going to stop Petterson's goal.  Just a perfect shot from the off wing.  Then bascially a 2-on-1 down low and a 2-on-0 down low.  Then a Virtanen breakaway.  Where was our D? 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

He did stop everything he was supposed to. 

 

No goalie in the league was going to stop Petterson's goal.  Just a perfect shot from the off wing.  Then bascially a 2-on-1 down low and a 2-on-0 down low.  Then a Virtanen breakaway.  Where was our D? 

 

Fair statement.

Except......

 

Game 1 2017/18 - McDavid puts it in the exact same spot and he doesn't stop it.

Game 1 2018/19 - duplicate shot

 

He wasn't bad.  He wasn't great.  3 goals on 15 shots to start with.  Ends up with 4 on 22.

I'm not worried so much about him having a bad game as his bad tendencies.  Again, he starts stickhandling the puck.  He gets out of those situations without a goal against.  This time.  He shoots it up the ice and it comes right back because nobody is set up.  No goals against.  This time.  Make it easier on your defense.  Short pass or drop it in a an spot to retrieve.  

 

By the 3rd goal, I felt they should give him the friendly hook.  Get Rittich in there.  Make Smith mad about it.  By 3 goals it was game over.  Sorry Mike, but it matters not whose fault it is, you let it get to 3-0 early in the period, there has to be a change.  Lay the blame later.  We needed a spark.  Tkachuk lit one, but it was snuffed out by a streaking Virtanen and a 5-hole goal.

[JTech780]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

He did stop everything he was supposed to. 

 

No goalie in the league was going to stop Petterson's goal.  Just a perfect shot from the off wing.  Then bascially a 2-on-1 down low and a 2-on-0 down low.  Then a Virtanen breakaway.  Where was our D? 

 

Pettersson goal I don't have any issues with, Stone took away pass and Pettersson just beat Smith with a great shot. 

 

The Goldobin goal, wasn't great, Smith didn't track the puck and got caught leaning the wrong way and gave Goldobin a wide open net.

 

The Leipsic goal, was on Valimaki and Stone for trying to exit the zone before the puck and allowed Leipsic to get in behind, so that one Smith had no chance.

 

The Virtanen one was a partial break away, but I thought Smith played it terribly, he did horrible job following Virtanen across the crease, that one I thought he should have had.

 

So 2 of the 4 goals were kind of iffy IMO.

 

At the same time we should have been better defensively, no doubt, but the top teams get quality and timely saves from their goaltender, and I don't think we got enough of that last night. Again I am not paying the blame at Smith because it was a team loss.

[JTech780]

This shoutout to Vernon is awesome.

[LouCifer]

5 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Pettersson goal I don't have any issues with, Stone took away pass and Pettersson just beat Smith with a great shot.

Correct. Most goalies in the league wouldn’t have stopped that one.

 

The Goldobin goal, wasn't great, Smith didn't track the puck and got caught leaning the wrong way and gave Goldobin a wide open net.

Smith didn’t “give” anything. Shot came from the point, deflected and landed in front of Pettersson in the slot. Pettersson’s back was to Smith, protecting view of the puck, and there were also 2 flames also screening him in the slot. Choosing to look left (the direction the original shot was heading) was leaning the right way. This was bad fortune more than bad goaltending or decision making.

 

Quote

The Leipsic goal, was on Valimaki and Stone for trying to exit the zone before the puck and allowed Leipsic to get in behind, so that one Smith had no chance.

Correct. And to note, Smith stopped the original shot which was deflected in front by the other Canuck, before Leipsic tucked in the rebound. 

 

The Virtanen one was a partial break away, but I thought Smith played it terribly, he did horrible job following Virtanen across the crease, that one I thought he should have had.

I agree, to a certain extent. I think Gio’s positioning forced Virtanen to move to the right. He couldn’t cut left. Smith should have anticipated this better, and the percentages were in his favor to make the save. The part I don’t like is this was yet another defensive breakdown first and foremost, and we’re buying into all the articles about Mike Smith not being able to carry the load for the team this year because he essentially didn’t stop a partial breakaway.

 

Quote

So 2 of the 4 goals were kind of iffy IMO.

I count 1 out of 4 if I side with you on the Virtanen goal. 

 

At the same time we should have been better defensively, no doubt, but the top teams get quality and timely saves from their goaltender, and I don't think we got enough of that last night. Again I am not paying the blame at Smith because it was a team loss.

Mike Smith gave us quality saves early in this game to give us time to get our legs going. He could’ve made one timely save on Virtanen, but I’m not begrudging him on a partial breakaway. Better defensively, yes. Team loss, yes. 

 

I hope this doesn’t come off as an attack JT. I respectfully see things differently than you. 

[kehatch]

Smith let in 4 goals on 22 shots. At least one of them was pretty questionable. I didn't see any 'holy crap' saves in there. I get there were defensive break downs, but when you keep it to 22 shots and every mistake goes in you aren't going to win a lot of games. 

 

I don't blame Smith for the lost. The Flames couldn't score on a tonne of power plays. The defense on two of those goals was terrible. Plus we just weren't winning the puck battles. The game was sloppy and low effort across the board. 

 

But Smith doesn't get a pass. He was mediocre at best and will need to be better of the Flames are going be successful this season. 

[robrob74]

42 minutes ago, kehatch said:

Smith let in 4 goals on 22 shots. At least one of them was pretty questionable. I didn't see any 'holy crap' saves in there. I get there were defensive break downs, but when you keep it to 22 shots and every mistake goes in you aren't going to win a lot of games. 

 

I don't blame Smith for the lost. The Flames couldn't score on a tonne of power plays. The defense on two of those goals was terrible. Plus we just weren't winning the puck battles. The game was sloppy and low effort across the board. 

 

But Smith doesn't get a pass. He was mediocre at best and will need to be better of the Flames are going be successful this season. 

 

Smith is an average goalie. Like any other average goalie in the league, about 85-90% of the goalies out there, will play as good as the tram in front of them. Sometimes he will steal a game or two, but I think what we ask of our goalie is too much. I think it is more about where, when and who when we make those mental mistakes. 

 

I think if iany goalie who has average or slightly above average numbers played for us, they’d do the same. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

Smith let in 4 goals on 22 shots. At least one of them was pretty questionable. I didn't see any 'holy crap' saves in there. I get there were defensive break downs, but when you keep it to 22 shots and every mistake goes in you aren't going to win a lot of games. 

 

I don't blame Smith for the lost. The Flames couldn't score on a tonne of power plays. The defense on two of those goals was terrible. Plus we just weren't winning the puck battles. The game was sloppy and low effort across the board. 

 

But Smith doesn't get a pass. He was mediocre at best and will need to be better of the Flames are going be successful this season. 

 

Watch any game in the NHL.  You see those "holy crap" saves every game.  The guy who does it is on his game.  Markstrom had at least one or two.  Smith had zero.  Watch MAF.  For every bad goal he lets in, there is at least one "holy crap" save.  The guy that can do that with limited shots will mostly win the game.

[kehatch]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Watch any game in the NHL.  You see those "holy crap" saves every game.  The guy who does it is on his game.  Markstrom had at least one or two.  Smith had zero.  Watch MAF.  For every bad goal he lets in, there is at least one "holy crap" save.  The guy that can do that with limited shots will mostly win the game.

 

Yup. Markstrom was better then Smith. Like I said above, if all of your mistakes are going in the net you aren't going to win games.

[cccsberg]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

Smith let in 4 goals on 22 shots. At least one of them was pretty questionable. I didn't see any 'holy crap' saves in there. I get there were defensive break downs, but when you keep it to 22 shots and every mistake goes in you aren't going to win a lot of games. 

 

I don't blame Smith for the lost. The Flames couldn't score on a tonne of power plays. The defense on two of those goals was terrible. Plus we just weren't winning the puck battles. The game was sloppy and low effort across the board. 

 

But Smith doesn't get a pass. He was mediocre at best and will need to be better of the Flames are going be successful this season. 

Thats a pretty reasonable assesment.

[LouCifer]

Some of those holy crap saves come as a result of the goalie not tracking properly and desparately reacting, or overplaying an angle and desparately reaching back (MAF). Smith stays on his goal line a lot - which I’m not the biggest fan of, but playing the way he does would reduce the opportunities for “holy crap” saves. Goalies play to their strengths, some (Smith) may not be as acrobatic as others. 

[Thebrewcrew]

One of Rittich's most recent solid performances last season came against NSH so I wonder if we see him tomorrow

[travel_dude]

46 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

One of Rittich's most recent solid performances last season came against NSH so I wonder if we see him tomorrow

 

I don't think BP will look at past performances.  If he did, it would be Rittich for both.  

STL has been firing a lot of pucks.  NSH not as many.

At this point, it's hard to tell who is the best choice.

Smith may the best choice since he started ti figure it out on Saturday.

On the other hand, he needs to get used to playing only 2/3 games.

[travel_dude]

By the sounds of BP, he doesn;t know who is going to start when.

He's waiting for Sigalet to tell him.  

[cross16]

I just like they want to get both guys in quick. None of this letting the backup sit for 2 weeks before he plays 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I just like they want to get both guys in quick. None of this letting the backup sit for 2 weeks before he plays 

 

Not complaining about getting the backup, just about the coach not really having much say other than both will play this week.

 

Do you have an opinion about who should play either game?

I would lean towards playing Rittich against Nashville.  Have a fresh team.  Give Smith the extra rest.  Winner gets the COL game.

I suppose the other theory is that Smith is just figuring it out, so get him playing fresh.

No wonder Sigalet keeps flip flopping on the starter.      

[conundrumed]

I'd go Rittich Nashville to be stern on the 2/3 split.

If they go Smith, does that mean Rittich gets the next 2/3?

Of course not.

Can't fall into the trap of too much Smith.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not complaining about getting the backup, just about the coach not really having much say other than both will play this week.

 

Do you have an opinion about who should play either game?

I would lean towards playing Rittich against Nashville.  Have a fresh team.  Give Smith the extra rest.  Winner gets the COL game.

I suppose the other theory is that Smith is just figuring it out, so get him playing fresh.

No wonder Sigalet keeps flip flopping on the starter.      

 

Not a strong one no. 

 

If it were me id go Rittich in Nashville. Played well there before and then it also takes away the fear that if you target St. Louis and lost against Nashville you may flip flop to avoid going 0-2. 

 

Take the sure thing like conundrumed said. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I'd go Rittich Nashville to be stern on the 2/3 split.

If they go Smith, does that mean Rittich gets the next 2/3?

Of course not.

Can't fall into the trap of too much Smith.

 

I tend towards the same thoughts.

If Rittich wins, you have Smith's performance on Thursday to determine the Saturday starter.

It has to be Rittich early and often if we are going to play Smith only 50 games.

And I really need to see 3rd period Smith play, as opposed to the other 5 periods Smith to have more confidence in him.

 

The state of goaltending so far this fall hasn't inspired a lot of confidence.

Smith letting in 8.

Rittich only looked good to end pre-season.

Gillies and Parson really struggled in the opening games.

 

The only solace I can find is that defensive play league wide has been shaky.  Perhaps it's goaltending?

BOS getting lit up.

Helle, MAF and Andersen giving up a bunch of goals.

[kehatch]

My only concern at this point is getting Smith going. If he and the coaching staff feel he needs to play right away then go with Smith. But my preference is Rittich. With Smith playing the final two preseason games we need to get Rittich a start and give Smith a break. 

[JTech780]

At this point we just need a goalie to make a save, the 4.03GAA and .810 save % Smith is rocking right now isn't going to cut it against Nashville or St. Louis. I might start Rittich tonight and if he has a big game go right back to him in St. Louis.

 

I am guessing if you played Rittich two or more games in a row, we would see a motivated Smith come into the net.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

At this point we just need a goalie to make a save, the 4.03GAA and .810 save % Smith is rocking right now isn't going to cut it against Nashville or St. Louis. I might start Rittich tonight and if he has a big game go right back to him in St. Louis.

 

I am guessing if you played Rittich two or more games in a row, we would see a motivated Smith come into the net.

 

There is still some question about him being tired out from the China trip.  Maybe so, but he's only faced 42 shots in two games.  He's seen every one of them.  Based on last season, they both played against Nashville.

Smith got the first win in Nashville with a good SA% and GAA, but lost at home with a decent SA% and GAA.

Rittich won in Nashville after Smith was injured, albeit 3 GAA and a .907 SA%.

 

I'm more inclined to play Rittich now, because if Smith didn't win tonight there would be bigger pressure for Rittich against STL.  As well, the team needs to tighten up on defense and I have seen Smith play loosey-goosey with the puck, which is messing up some of the breakouts.  What good is a 100 foot pass from the goalie if it results in an icing or immediate loss of possession.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

There is still some question about him being tired out from the China trip.  Maybe so, but he's only faced 42 shots in two games.  He's seen every one of them.  Based on last season, they both played against Nashville.

Smith got the first win in Nashville with a good SA% and GAA, but lost at home with a decent SA% and GAA.

Rittich won in Nashville after Smith was injured, albeit 3 GAA and a .907 SA%.

 

I'm more inclined to play Rittich now, because if Smith didn't win tonight there would be bigger pressure for Rittich against STL.  As well, the team needs to tighten up on defense and I have seen Smith play loosey-goosey with the puck, which is messing up some of the breakouts.  What good is a 100 foot pass from the goalie if it results in an icing or immediate loss of possession.

 

Sounds like Smith is starting tonight. Either way we just need a save.

 

I wonder how much of an effect the smaller chest protectors are having on guys like Smith, he doesn't seem quite comfortable with shots between the body and his arm.