Goaltending

[The_People1]

21 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

As everyone is probably aware my choice for this year was a Mason/Grubauer tandem but unfortunately that was not to be.

I was never on the MAF wagon & was luke warm @ best with Smith.

The strange thing is as I talk to people & read various articles about Smith in Calgary the more faith I'm starting to have in him.

I was talking to my niece's husband on Sunday. He's a goalie & a Habs fan (I forgave him as he is a good guy) & talk turned to improved teams so we taked Jets getting Mason (we both live in the "Peg afterall) & he mentioned Smith with that Calgary D. We tend to discuss rather than argue so I let him make his points why that was a great combination & I had no rebutal. There's a dang good chance this works if our forwards hold up their part of the bargain.

 

Smith has never had a D this stacked.  I think he will do well.

 

Lack on the other hand, Carolina allowed the 5th least shots against last season and Lack/Ward couldn't get it done.  I have no reason to believe Lack will be able to re-establish himself in the NHL with our D.  By all accounts, the Canes have one of the best D group in the league.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Smith has never had a D this stacked.  I think he will do well.

 

Lack on the other hand, Carolina allowed the 5th least shots against last season and Lack/Ward couldn't get it done.  I have no reason to believe Lack will be able to re-establish himself in the NHL with our D.  By all accounts, the Canes have one of the best D group in the league.

 

The notion was that they tried to change Lack's game from where his strengths were.  We shall see

[conundrumed]

On 9/13/2017 at 6:33 PM, travel_dude said:

 

The notion was that they tried to change Lack's game from where his strengths were.  We shall see

What an oddity that is too. You're supposed to scout goalies and list the qualities that are important to you. Not sign a guy and try to turn him into something different than you scouted.

But by all accounts, that's what they did.

That would be like telling Ramo to stay deep in his crease and then wonder why his GAA explodes and SV% plummet and then blame him for it.

[MAC331]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

What an oddity that is too. You're supposed to scout goalies and list the qualities that are important to you. Not sign a guy and try to turn him into something different than you scouted.

But by all accounts, that's what they did.

That would be like telling Ramo to stay deep in his crease and then wonder why his GAA explodes and SV% plummet and then blame him for it.

I like this combo of Smith and Lack. Smith has put in the time as a starter with not a very rewarding career, hopefully we get his best 2 seasons. I like what I remember of Lack when in VAN, big guy, very agile and should learn a few things from Smitty.

[conundrumed]

From what I saw of Lack yesterday, looks like he's back to staying in his net.

[jjgallow]

On 2017-07-13 at 8:23 AM, kehatch said:

Gilles or Rittich will get an opportunity if there is an injury. Just like 90 percent of goalie prospects. 

 

I am more focused on Gilles rebounding in the AHL. Sure he played well at the end and that is a positive sign. But looking at segments of play is never a good way to evaluate goalies. He needs to do that over a long period. 

 

Now I'm confused again....I feel like there was a typo...did you mean AHL or NHL again?

 

 

 

[kehatch]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Now I'm confused again....I feel like there was a typo...did you mean AHL or NHL again?

 

 

 

 

Hopefully it is just forum members that need to comment in how premature you are...

[rickross]

On September 16, 2017 at 10:17 AM, conundrumed said:

From what I saw of Lack yesterday, looks like he's back to staying in his net.

Eddie Wack. 

[Zirakzigil]

2 hours ago, rickross said:

Eddie Wack. 

From what I have seen from him he hasnt left a good impression. Flames cant afford to have goaltending slow them down at the start again. 

[rickross]

33 minutes ago, Zirakzigil said:

From what I have seen from him he hasnt left a good impression. Flames cant afford to have goaltending slow them down at the start again. 

Until he can prove he's an NHL worthy goalie he's Eddie Wack. Doesn't bode well that he's already struggling in his preseason showings, heres hoping he can drop the Wackness

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

Hopefully it is just forum members that need to comment in how premature you are...

 

uh....   so my post didn't really define the end-goal.    But, if we're talking about Gillies making the NHL this year....

 

That ain't premature no more, man.    I'd say he's already got better odds than Eddie.   Right out of the gate.   And even if Eddie is given the spot to begin with, I really don't like his odds of holding it for 82 games.    That's not just based on pre-season, by the way.   Pre-season is just confirmation.

[kehatch]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

uh....   so my post didn't really define the end-goal.    But, if we're talking about Gillies making the NHL this year....

 

That ain't premature no more, man.    I'd say he's already got better odds than Eddie.   Right out of the gate.   And even if Eddie is given the spot to begin with, I really don't like his odds of holding it for 82 games.    That's not just based on pre-season, by the way.   Pre-season is just confirmation.

 

You aren't the coach or the GM. The former is the one who asked for Lack and the latter is the one that traded assets for him. So they didn't come into the preseason with your presumptions. Two preseason games against over matched teams (Lack) and a game and a bit of okay play (Gilles) certainly isn't validating anything for them. 

 

I would give you the conventional wisdom on why it is still unlikely Gilles makes the team, but you would discard it. I will leave it with this. Your applauding yourself too early (again). How about you wait to see if Gilles actually makes the team before the dramatic told you so's? 

[kehatch]

Darren Haynes says stop thinking such silliness.

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2017/09/cuts-like-knife-driving-home-this.html?m=1

 

Lack is a Lock

The presence of Jon Gillies may have some of you thinking that maybe he has a chance to beat out Eddie Lack for the back-up job. Well, stop thinking such silliness because there is zero chance of that happening.

Gillies is around as an insurance piece only. Despite giving up eight goals in his game-and-a-half, Lack is a lock for the back-up job behind Mike Smith at least to start the season.

With a year left on his contract the the Flames only on the hook for half of the Swede's $2.75 AAV, Lack is someone that can easily be buried in the minors at some point this season if things go south. But we're not there yet and those chagrined at how the first two appearances have gone need to take a closer look at the circumstances of those two starts.
 

• Both games -- versus Connor McDavid and the Oilers and versus Patrik Laine and the Jets -- were on the road.
• Both games were against far superior line-ups than what the Flames suited up. In fact, each game featured only four or five players expected to be in Calgary's opening night line-up. 
• Lack has yet to play a single minute behind Calgary's vaunted top four on defence. Instead, in his starts he's seen a steady dose of Stone (x2), Kulak (x2), Wotherspoon (x2), Bartkowski (x2) and Andersson (x2) in front of him. The inexperienced Josh Healyand Juuso Valimaki also getting one start each. Good luck with that.
• Five of the eight goals he's given up have been on the power play with 90 percent of the Flames regular penalty killers watching the game on TV in Calgary.

Even-strength save percentage is generally viewed as the preferred stat when evaluating goaltenders and Lack has put up a respectable .923 (stopped 36 of 39 shots) so far. For context, that figure would have ranked him 15th in the NHL last season.

While he hasn't proven he's back to being Canucks' Lack as opposed to Canes' Lack, there's no reason to panic quite yet. Sure, seeing Gillies in a Flames uniform is possible, but I'd suggest it would be December at the earliest. Before that happens, Lack will get plenty of opportunity to show that with NHL defencemen in front of him as well as NHL forwards, he is the capable goaltender that Gulutzan is familiar with when when he was on the west coast.

[jjgallow]

10 minutes ago, kehatch said:

Darren Haynes says stop thinking such silliness.

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2017/09/cuts-like-knife-driving-home-this.html?m=1

 

Lack is a Lock

 

Well, if a football player from Al Jazeera says so, who are we to question?

 

Gillies aside, "Lack is a Lock" has to be some of the poorest assessment of the Flames we've ever had, and goes against the vast majority of media pundits, fans, and likely Flames brass.   Even from a football player, it's bad.   Referring to Gillies, one of our top prospects, as an "insurance piece" is a close second.   The old scraggly mediocre veterans we've brought in are clearly the insurance pieces while we wait for the likes of Gillie and Parsons. 

 

Gillies already has the edge, and even if he does go down to the AHL, the term would be "stint".

 

The old arguement of "premature" when a new player breaks into the league always makes sense until they step onto the ice in an NHL arena and then it doesn't.

[kehatch]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, if a football player from Al Jazeera says so, who are we to question?

 

Gillies aside, "Lack is a Lock" has to be some of the poorest assessment of the Flames we've ever had, and goes against the vast majority of media pundits, fans, and likely Flames brass.   Even from a football player, it's bad.   Referring to Gillies, one of our top prospects, as an "insurance piece" is a close second.   The old scraggly mediocre veterans we've brought in are clearly the insurance pieces while we wait for the likes of Gillie and Parsons. 

 

Gillies already has the edge, and even if he does go down to the AHL, the term would be "stint".

 

The old arguement of "premature" when a new player breaks into the league always makes sense until they step onto the ice in an NHL arena and then it doesn't.

 

First, Darren Haynes might be the most respected Flames media member out there.  Second, I wasn't speaking about a prospect being premature.  I was speaking about you singing the told you so song when Gilles hasn't made the team (and still very probably will not out of camp).  

 

I am rooting for Gilles/Parsons/Ritich as much as anyone.  I would LOVE to have a prospect step up as a legitimate NHL starter.  I am also rooting for Lack to pull a Dubnyk (though I am less positive about that chance).  But the reality is Lack tended an AHL team against an NHL team in two early preseason games.  We can argue about his performance (I don't think he was that bad in his last game, didn't see the Edmonton one).  But suggesting this will cause the coach/GM to dramatically change the impressions that led them to acquire Lack is silliness.  Especially when Gilles hasn't exactly rocked the preseason (by the stat line , Lack has been the better goalie).  

[cross16]

I agree Lack will get the backup job. They didn't acquire him to give him a few games in the preseason and then send him down to the minors they want him to be the backup at least to start and I also think they want to see Gilles get some games in the A as well and play.

 

That being said at this rate I won't be surprised at all if we see a fair bit of Gilles this season. Personally I think Gilles has had the better preseason (even if stats don't back it up) and right now I feel like we are seeing more of the Carolina Lack than the Vancouver one. Won't surprise me at all if Gilles winds up as the backup at some point this season but it won't be at the start of the season. 

[cccsberg]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, if a football player from Al Jazeera says so, who are we to question?

 

Gillies aside, "Lack is a Lock" has to be some of the poorest assessment of the Flames we've ever had, and goes against the vast majority of media pundits, fans, and likely Flames brass.   Even from a football player, it's bad.   Referring to Gillies, one of our top prospects, as an "insurance piece" is a close second.   The old scraggly mediocre veterans we've brought in are clearly the insurance pieces while we wait for the likes of Gillie and Parsons. 

 

Gillies already has the edge, and even if he does go down to the AHL, the term would be "stint".

 

The old arguement of "premature" when a new player breaks into the league always makes sense until they step onto the ice in an NHL arena and then it doesn't.

The comment about Haynes is stupid and offensive.  If you read his stuff that would be readily apparent.  As for Lack, he's played reasonably well so far, considering, and there is little sense to thinking our best near-ready goalie is going to be riding the pine here anytime soon.  

[JTech780]

I love this mentality, Gillies makes one highlight save in pre-season, well we better make him our starter now. Meanwhile he struggled to be even average at the AHL level last year. I have high hopes for Gillies, but he has to show that he can be a starter at in the AHL before we start handing him the keys at the NHL level.

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, if a football player from Al Jazeera says so, who are we to question?

 

Gillies aside, "Lack is a Lock" has to be some of the poorest assessment of the Flames we've ever had, and goes against the vast majority of media pundits, fans, and likely Flames brass.   Even from a football player, it's bad.   Referring to Gillies, one of our top prospects, as an "insurance piece" is a close second.   The old scraggly mediocre veterans we've brought in are clearly the insurance pieces while we wait for the likes of Gillie and Parsons. 

 

Gillies already has the edge, and even if he does go down to the AHL, the term would be "stint".

 

The old arguement of "premature" when a new player breaks into the league always makes sense until they step onto the ice in an NHL arena and then it doesn't.

Why is it every year we have these silly discussions on goaltending with you?

 

Honestly I would rate parsons higher then gillies in terms of prospects but at the same time gillies has pro experience. I would expect gillies to spend another full year in the AHL unless the wheels completely fall off the bus.

[travel_dude]

53 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I love this mentality, Gillies makes one highlight save in pre-season, well we better make him our starter now. Meanwhile he struggled to be even average at the AHL level last year. I have high hopes for Gillies, but he has to show that he can be a starter at in the AHL before we start handing him the keys at the NHL level.

 

I'm not sold on Lack.  He hasn't been the same since he was in VAN.  Gillies had one game against LA when they were done.  He was great.  But that was just one game.  I'm not going to sold on Lack until I see him play a regular game.  If he's 0-2 to start his season, and it's legitimately on him, I don't know that they will give him any rope.  But they also have to get a better read on Gillies and Rittich in the AHL this season.  They need to get some mileage before they get called up.

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not sold on Lack.  He hasn't been the same since he was in VAN.  Gillies had one game against LA when they were done.  He was great.  But that was just one game.  I'm not going to sold on Lack until I see him play a regular game.  If he's 0-2 to start his season, and it's legitimately on him, I don't know that they will give him any rope.  But they also have to get a better read on Gillies and Rittich in the AHL this season.  They need to get some mileage before they get called up.

 

Exactly.   I understand everyone freaking out like nervous Nellies because Gillies doesn't have a 10 year NHL track record.   That's nothing new here.    But what I don't understand, is why Lack's many years of very poor NHL performances gives him the "experience we need" to make him a "Lock".

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not sold on Lack.  He hasn't been the same since he was in VAN.  Gillies had one game against LA when they were done.  He was great.  But that was just one game.  I'm not going to sold on Lack until I see him play a regular game.  If he's 0-2 to start his season, and it's legitimately on him, I don't know that they will give him any rope.  But they also have to get a better read on Gillies and Rittich in the AHL this season.  They need to get some mileage before they get called up.

 

I agree Lack has to come out and prove something this year, but I don't think we count him out yet based on pre-season. I think he can be a solid backup for us. Gillies needs to play and needs to show consistency at the AHL level before I would give him a shot at the backup role in the NHL. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Exactly.   I understand everyone freaking out like nervous Nellies because Gillies doesn't have a 10 year NHL track record.   That's nothing new here.    But what I don't understand, is why Lack's many years of very poor NHL performances gives him the "experience we need" to make him a "Lock".

 

Well, I was sorta saying that a backup has to be used to not playing and be able to come in for a game.  Rittich and Gillies need to get playing now, which doesn't fit well with the situation in CGY.  Lack is only a lock because of this.  I don't think you can lose a backup spot in pre-season unless you don't do anything right.  

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Exactly.   I understand everyone freaking out like nervous Nellies because Gillies doesn't have a 10 year NHL track record.   That's nothing new here.    But what I don't understand, is why Lack's many years of very poor NHL performances gives him the "experience we need" to make him a "Lock".

 

Ok, but what about Gillies' track record of poor performances at the AHL level makes you think he can be any better at the NHL level?

[JTech780]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Exactly.   I understand everyone freaking out like nervous Nellies because Gillies doesn't have a 10 year NHL track record.   That's nothing new here.    But what I don't understand, is why Lack's many years of very poor NHL performances gives him the "experience we need" to make him a "Lock".

 

I would also add that his two years in Vancouver were very solid, but when he went to Carolina and they tried to change his style of play is where his career took a sharp turn for the worst.