Goaltending

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

Going to be interesting and quite challenging to handle the goaltending moving forward. Obviously you have to love what Chad Johnson has done and he's been terrific, but I also think the Flames need to get Elliot going. I'm not sold that Johnson can handle a number 1, 50 ish starts or more, the rest of the year and if the Flames want to get back into this they'll need Elliott. Will have to balance Johnson with also getting Elliott some games moving forward, but no question Johnson is their guy right now.

 

He's not a starter, and was only one last year due to Lehner being injured in the first days of the season.  Buy, he has shown he is capable of playing 40 games.  Elliott is a concern right now because we play flat in front of him.  He's overplaying because he's getting hung out too much.  He's a bit too much like Ramo was early last season.  I think he just needs to get a gritty win before his confidence comes back.  An actual team game where the team saves his bacon and he saves theirs.  Elliott seems to be not trusting his d-men when he goes to play the puck, while CJ communicates pretty well with them.  

 

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think we should go with "always earned, never given."  

 

Whoever is playing well, play him.

 

GG has been doing that.  But I caution that there is more to picking a starter for a particular game.  He chose to start Elliott instead of CJ in Buffalo.  Kept CJ rested for the tougher of the two games.  Almost worked except for the penalty collapse in Buffalo.     

 

One thng I will point out is that at least one game that CJ won, the post and crossbar saved the game for him.  One of them goes in, and it's a different game.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

He's not a starter, and was only one last year due to Lehner being injured in the first days of the season.  Buy, he has shown he is capable of playing 40 games.  Elliott is a concern right now because we play flat in front of him.  He's overplaying because he's getting hung out too much.  He's a bit too much like Ramo was early last season.  I think he just needs to get a gritty win before his confidence comes back.  An actual team game where the team saves his bacon and he saves theirs.  Elliott seems to be not trusting his d-men when he goes to play the puck, while CJ communicates pretty well with them.  

 

 

GG has been doing that.  But I caution that there is more to picking a starter for a particular game.  He chose to start Elliott instead of CJ in Buffalo.  Kept CJ rested for the tougher of the two games.  Almost worked except for the penalty collapse in Buffalo.     

 

One thng I will point out is that at least one game that CJ won, the post and crossbar saved the game for him.  One of them goes in, and it's a different game.

Crossbars, Life of a Goalie. He must of been in good position if all there was is a crossbar to it. This will become a pairing as time goes on, we will need both of these goalies to perform well and both are capable.

[cross16]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think we should go with "always earned, never given."  

 

Whoever is playing well, play him.

 Don't disagree, but I also don't thik you can let Elliott sit for long periods of time without any game action. I think he can just string 2 good games together he'd get his confidence and he'd be fine but need to try and get him those games. 

[MAC331]

Just now, cross16 said:

 Don't disagree, but I also don't thik you can let Elliott sit for long periods of time without any game action. I think he can just string 2 good games together he'd get his confidence and he'd be fine but need to try and get him those games. 

This has to be the way, neither of these guys are accustom to being a horse you can ride like Kiprusoff.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Crossbars, Life of a Goalie. He must of been in good position if all there was is a crossbar to it. This will become a pairing as time goes on, we will need both of these goalies to perform well and both are capable.

 

The point is that the shot got past him.  Shot missed the net as much as CJ didn't give any of the net exposed.  The difference between a goal and a miss is inches at most.  Good to be lucky or lucky to be good.  Both are sound goalies.  

 

What I notice about games with CJ is that the team goes the extra mile to clear the puck after he gives up a rebound.   Elliott gets hung out to dry more.    

[zima]

Seems to me that the only player that played last night was CJ shots 20 to 34 and some were goals if Elliot would have been in net. Don't get me wrong I think given time perhaps El could come out of this funk he is in but if GG puts El in 1 more time in the next 5 games he should be fired. Only way El should be in there is if CJ starts faltering or gets hurt.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

The point is that the shot got past him.  Shot missed the net as much as CJ didn't give any of the net exposed.  The difference between a goal and a miss is inches at most.  Good to be lucky or lucky to be good.  Both are sound goalies.  

 

What I notice about games with CJ is that the team goes the extra mile to clear the puck after he gives up a rebound.   Elliott gets hung out to dry more.    

CJ's rebounds appear to be off the softer variety where as Elliott's get away. Elliott will get it together sooner or later and I agree with cross you have to manage their starts rather than try to ride one for a long string of starts. I think the team is getting better as a group and this can lead to some planning.

[JTech780]

I like Johnson and I think he has earned a chance to be the number 1, both from his work last year and this year. I think he can carry the load for 50+games.

 

Right now I have zero faith that Elliott can get it done, nothing in his game shows me that he is close to turning a corner. He reminds me of Ramo, but less athletic. He is way too active in the net, and it just seems like he isn't reading the puck well.

[zima]

Perhaps the summer break hurt El time will tell perhaps he just got a swelled head from all the hockey analysis building him up who knows but to date he isn't what was as advertised.

[DirtyDeeds]

12 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

He's not a starter, and was only one last year due to Lehner being injured in the first days of the season.  Buy, he has shown he is capable of playing 40 games.  Elliott is a concern right now because we play flat in front of him.  He's overplaying because he's getting hung out too much.  He's a bit too much like Ramo was early last season.  I think he just needs to get a gritty win before his confidence comes back.  An actual team game where the team saves his bacon and he saves theirs.  Elliott seems to be not trusting his d-men when he goes to play the puck, while CJ communicates pretty well with them.  

 

 

GG has been doing that.  But I caution that there is more to picking a starter for a particular game.  He chose to start Elliott instead of CJ in Buffalo.  Kept CJ rested for the tougher of the two games.  Almost worked except for the penalty collapse in Buffalo.     

 

One thng I will point out is that at least one game that CJ won, the post and crossbar saved the game for him.  One of them goes in, and it's a different game.

I believe in the interview the day before or the day of the Buffalo game he said it was  Jordan Sigalet (Siggy he called him) who picked the goaltender. While he may have made the final call it was Siggy who fed him all his facts like Elliott had never lost in Buffalo.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I believe in the interview the day before or the day of the Buffalo game he said it was  Jordan Sigalet (Siggy he called him) who picked the goaltender. While he may have made the final call it was Siggy who fed him all his facts like Elliott had never lost in Buffalo.

Siggy probably has a disclaimer against total team meltdown, like Buffalo.

A timeout likely would have helped, but that's just imo.

Tough year to be a new coach in a quickened year, I'd be hard on everyone and skate the crap out of them myself.

You know, a player's coach, lol.

[xstrike]

16 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Crossbars, Life of a Goalie. He must of been in good position if all there was is a crossbar to it. This will become a pairing as time goes on, we will need both of these goalies to perform well and both are capable.

Yep, no point to covering the crossbars. A hit to it doesn't count as a goal. Only part that need any cover is inside of the post for bad ricochets. At least, being a soccer goalkeeper with so much net to cover, the crossbars aren't so important to cover. Same with posts. 

[cross16]

Most of the time when the puck hits the crossbar it's because the goalie was in the right position and the shooter had no where else to go. The concept that crossbars should be considered lucky isn't acurate IMO. Exceptions to that but most of the time it means the goalie did his job. 

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Most of the time when the puck hits the crossbar it's because the goalie was in the right position and the shooter had no where else to go. The concept that crossbars should be considered lucky isn't acurate IMO. Exceptions to that but most of the time it means the goalie did his job. 

 

I think it's closer to 50/50 IMHO.  The goalie covers most of the net but there is a perfect spot that can be hit.  Most of the players that hit the crossbars are aiming for that spot and miss.  As far as the posts go, there are many times that a player beats the goalie and misses the back of the net.  Call it lucky, well positioned or the shooter missed.  It doesn't make the goalie any worse; he can only cover so much of the net.  

[redfire11]

On 2016-11-24 at 7:34 AM, travel_dude said:

 

He's not a starter, and was only one last year due to Lehner being injured in the first days of the season. 

So CJ is playing like a starter.

He has a nhl save % of a starter.

He has the confidence of his team as a starter.

But since he is paid like a backup that's all he should be?

 

Personal opinion is until CJ falters or is injured he is the #1 and Elliot is the backup. Enough of him proving himself time and again after Elliot "craps the bed".

[JTech780]

The way Johnson is playing right I would be surprised if he relinquished the net.

 

He is playing like a goalie that is on his 6th organization in 6 years and is tired of moving. (I may have borrowed that from a Darren Haynes tweet).

[MAC331]

Just now, JTech780 said:

The way Johnson is playing right I would be surprised if he relinquished the net.

 

He is playing like a goalie that is on his 6th organization in 6 years and is tired of moving. (I may have borrowed that from a Darren Haynes tweet).

 

Just now, JTech780 said:

The way Johnson is playing right I would be surprised if he relinquished the net.

 

He is playing like a goalie that is on his 6th organization in 6 years and is tired of moving. (I may have borrowed that from a Darren Haynes tweet).

Just go with the hot hand is what GG should doing this season.

[TheFan99]

On 2016-11-23 at 10:15 PM, TheFan99 said:

I'm not surprised CJ is doing well he's from Calgary and every off season since he was with the Rangers he's worked out at world pro goaltending in Calgary. He's  helped out my son and other young goaltenders occasionally after his work outs. He works his butt off. The coaches rapid fire him 2 shooters at a time for 5 minute intervals 2 minute breaks in between for 30 minutes, straight the guy is an animal. 

Watching a NHL calibre goalie up close with their work, outs goes to show you up close how hard some of them work. Keep it going CJ!!

[TheFan99]

I know I'm off topic but good to see BT called up Jankowski today. He deserves a starting line up shot? 

[travel_dude]

For those that preferred to get MAF, here's some stats for ya:

 

GP 14

GS 13

Wins 6

Losses 4

OTL 3

GA 43

GAA 3.18

SA% .907

 

Elliott

GP 12

GS 12

Wins 3

Losses 9

OTL 0

GA 41

GAA 3.18

SA% .882

[TheFan99]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

For those that preferred to get MAF, here's some stats for ya:

 

GP 14

GS 13

Wins 6

Losses 4

OTL 3

GA 43

GAA 3.18

SA% .907

 

Elliott

GP 12

GS 12

Wins 3

Losses 9

OTL 0

GA 41

GAA 3.18

SA% .882

Not much difference except contract. MAF has a Stanley cup team in front of him. Matt Murray is out playing MAF substantially. Waste of time and money with no upgrade with MAF.

[TheFan99]

Elliot seems to play better when someone is breathing down his neck for his starting minutes. CJ is starting to challenge him so maybe Elliott will wake up.

[Cowtownguy]

55 minutes ago, TheFan99 said:

Elliot seems to play better when someone is breathing down his neck for his starting minutes. CJ is starting to challenge him so maybe Elliott will wake up.

Agreed.

[jjgallow]

Tyler Parsons has Really picked his game back up, and is taking the OHL by storm again:

 

http://ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/goalies/56

 

Really glad to see this, we needed it.  Now if Gillies can get back into form, we're in a good spot!

 

p.s...Actually, really impressed right now with almost the entire selection of players from the Flames 2016 draft.  Well-done!

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005090.html

[JTech780]

So does anyone still have doubts that Chad Johnson is and will be the number 1 for the remainder of the year? 

 

I would be comfortable seeing a contract extension coming through for this guy tomorrow.

 

At this point for me he is the guy and the guy I want starting going into next year. He has enough of a track record former now to say that when you factor in contract costs and acquisition costs, that he is the best goalie available for us next year.

 

Fleury is available but it will cost us picks, players or prospects, plus I think an extension for Johnson will be cheaper than Fleury's current contract.

 

Bishop is a UFA but he will come with a big ticket payday, and who knows if he really wants to be here beyond the money.

 

Bishop at $7m over 7 years or Johnson at $3m over 3 years. I would take Johnson.