Goaltending

[nevermissashift]

Well there would be a lot to be debated if we are able to find a franchise goalie. I personally would not let JH go for one, but some here would. In my mind he is going to sell too many jerseys and too many tickets to let go in a trade.

 

Interesting you have him Iggyfied status already. Maybe. Everyone likes a little feel good(row) story.

 

'Franchise goalie'... that has a nice ring to it. No, don't go blowing away the strong core to get a goalie, at least not yet. No, hands off the Godreau and the other strong players. It's not like the Flames are an overstocked team like Edmonton.

I mentioned that the Canadiens were strong, you could almost say because they had a smaller payroll and a mandate to build a Strong team for the Sole Purpose. If that looks like players and the organization were buying a cup, so what go ahead and do it. It's all dough dough business but what about the cup in a crowded league of cap teams.

 

I posted this before for a laugh (with an undertone of truth) but maybe a lot of the members aren't antique enough to remember cartoon character Boris Badanov. I post it again:

 

Fearless Leader: Badenov, you know why I called you in on this job?

Boris: Because I'm trustworthy, loyal, brave, and efficient?

Fearless Leader: No, because you work cheap.

Boris: That too!

[Flyerfan52]

I think a super goalie is THE most important thing in a Stanly Cup win but even a super goalie can't hold up the world.

 

I think the Flames need that proven tender that will allow them to make calculated changes to the roster and team play, while not wondering so much if losses are the fault of the goaltending or not, someone they can depend on back there. The Flames have to put the best goalie they can out there as a starter. Goaltending needs to be top notch now and into the building future. It doesn't have to be the same goalie during that period, just the best possible goalie/s fit available. There will be flow in transition of the right players and goalies. To put a 'maybe' in there is not optimum reasoning at anytime. Let's face it, the team has to come up with money to purchase while keeping the strong players that are going to fit that strong team.

 

Remember the Canadiens had one of the lowest payrolls in the league and they were the contender. Do you want to win a cup or do you want to make the best buck? They held together a team of fine players (goaltenders included) who wanted to win cups. Start with that mentality... Iggy seemed to have that attitude.

 

OK, but I'm nuts and my back is getting sore.

They were about 0.5 under the cap. They were 8th highest in the league.

I recommend you check out generalfanager prior to posting about payrolls.

'Franchise goalie'... that has a nice ring to it. No, don't go blowing away the strong core to get a goalie, at least not yet. No, hands off the strong players. It's not like the Flames are an overstocked team like Edmonton.

I mentioned that the Canadiens were strong, you could almost say because they had a smaller payroll and a mandate to build a Strong team for the Sole Purpose. If that looks like players and the organization were buying a cup, so what go ahead and do it. It's all dough dough business but what about the cup in a crowded league of cap teams.

 

I posted this before for a laugh (with an undertone of truth) but maybe a lot of the members aren't antique enough to remember cartoon character Boris Badanov. I post it again:

 

Fearless Leader: Badenov, you know why I called you in on this job?

Boris: Because I'm trustworthy, loyal, brave, and efficient?

Fearless Leader: No, because you work cheap.

Boris: That too!

Boris & Natasha from Rocky & Bullwinkle. I remember it.

 

However it doesn't cover up what I said in my previous post.

[nevermissashift]

They were about 0.5 under the cap. They were 8th highest in the league.

I recommend you check out generalfanager prior to posting about payrolls.

 

This was in the days way before talk of a cap. Maybe you can find those numbers; I hate digging around for the details. This was something that I heard way back in the olden days I hope I don't have my head in my elbow on this one. It wouldn't be the first time but I am not a man of instant statistics and numbers recall. I have the gist of things and I go on that.

 

Here is a Mark Twain quote that applies: "There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics!"

They were about 0.5 under the cap. They were 8th highest in the league.

I recommend you check out generalfanager prior to posting about payrolls.

Boris & Natasha from Rocky & Bullwinkle. I remember it.

 

However it doesn't cover up what I said in my previous post.

 

Cover up! How dare you!

 

Bullwinkle: You just leave it to my pal Rock. He's the brains of the outfit.

General: And what does that make you?

Bullwinkle: What else? The executive.

 

 

Just kiddin Flyer.

 

RE: "Remember the Canadiens had one of the lowest payrolls in the league and they were the contender. Do you want to win a cup or do you want to make the best buck? They held together a team of fine players (goaltenders included) who wanted to win cups."

 

I looked around a bit on the net, and I couldn't find NHL team payroll comparisons for the 60s 70s etc.. The oldest was 1989. I guess I just have to leave it with my memory of that being the situation back there a ways.

[travel_dude]

... 

 

It's not like the Flames are an overstocked team like Edmonton.

...

 

Overstocked team like EDM?  I have never heard anything so funny.  What are they overstocked with?

 

They have a very good LW that takes shifts off and prefers to protect his +- stats over finishing a play.  

They have a top rookie center yet to play a full season, but will be a very good player for years.

They have a big German center that played 1/2 a good season at center, the other 1/2 at wing.

They have a very good RW that doesn't really want to play all the time.

They have a good center that is to slight to play 2-way, and is not a #1.

They have one good D-man and one good D-man prospect.

 

They need to trade two of these players just to have a decent defenseman and a player that will show up.

The cupboards are bare.  Every good prospect is on the team.  

[nevermissashift]

Overstocked team like EDM?  I have never heard anything so funny.  What are they overstocked with?

 

They have a very good LW that takes shifts off and prefers to protect his +- stats over finishing a play.  

They have a top rookie center yet to play a full season, but will be a very good player for years.

They have a big German center that played 1/2 a good season at center, the other 1/2 at wing.

They have a very good RW that doesn't really want to play all the time.

They have a good center that is to slight to play 2-way, and is not a #1.

They have one good D-man and one good D-man prospect.

 

They need to trade two of these players just to have a decent defenseman and a player that will show up.

The cupboards are bare.  Every good prospect is on the team.  

Wow, never heard anything that funny and it wasn't even one of my good ones

 

OK overstocked with 1st overallers and good prospects. They don't want to play in Edmonton, and Edmonton wouldn't be able to afford to keep them all.

[travel_dude]

Wow, never heard anything that funny and it wasn't even one of my good ones

 

OK overstocked with 1st overallers and good prospects. They don't want to play in Edmonton, and Edmonton wouldn't be able to afford to keep them all.

 

Overstocked with 1st overalls.  Absolutely.

 

I don't know who these prospects are.  Lander? Pakarinen? Davidson?  Yakimov?  Reinhart?

Some of them might be able to be 4th liners or 6/7 D-men on a real NHL team.

[nevermissashift]

Overstocked with 1st overalls.  Absolutely.

 

I don't know who these prospects are.  Lander? Pakarinen? Davidson?  Yakimov?  Reinhart?

Some of them might be able to be 4th liners or 6/7 D-men on a real NHL team.

 

Ya, that's what I was getting at I think. The 1st overallers should be worth something, and are they their best players (McDavid aside)?

 

You guys probably want to talk some more trades and dealings. I am going to watch the rest of the third period of the Sharks and Preds game 2.

[JTech780]

All the Raanta fans out there can take him off their lists, he RE-signed with the Rangers today.

[nevermissashift]

All the Raanta fans out there can take him off their lists, he RE-signed with the Rangers today.

 

There is some solid information.

Thanks

[MAC331]

All the Raanta fans out there can take him off their lists, he RE-signed with the Rangers today.

check

[cross16]

All the Raanta fans out there can take him off their lists, he RE-signed with the Rangers today.

 

I'm not a fan and he wasn't a target for me, but still find it really interesting its only a 2 year deal at 1 mill per. That tells me the buzz around the league would be he is a backup and not a starter. If people thought he could start I think his agent goes to July 1 for sure. 

[jjgallow]

So...on Gaudreau,

 

Suffice it to say, after reading through the last couple pages, he's probably off-topic on this thread.

 

We're not trading Gaudreau for a goaltender (unless the goaltender was just a spinoff to a larger deal).

 

Gaudreau's not untouchable.    But that's just semantics.   We all know he's nearly impossible to move in a winning trade.

 

As for comparing him to Bennett, Monahan, etc:  You can't, without adjusting for age.   And, suffice it to say, that's also an entirely separate conversation with no clear cut winner.

[travel_dude]

So...on Gaudreau,

 

Suffice it to say, after reading through the last couple pages, he's probably off-topic on this thread.

 

We're not trading Gaudreau for a goaltender (unless the goaltender was just a spinoff to a larger deal).

 

Gaudreau's not untouchable.    But that's just semantics.   We all know he's nearly impossible to move in a winning trade.

 

As for comparing him to Bennett, Monahan, etc:  You can't, without adjusting for age.   And, suffice it to say, that's also an entirely separate conversation with no clear cut winner.

 

No point in comparing the three.  Johnny has had two standout seasons in his first two years, regardless of age.  He did that in spite of his small size.  Monahan put up good numbers in his 2nd and 3rd year as the number 1 center.  Bennett played most of his first year on the wing.  

 

Three different types of players/talent.  None should be the basis of a deal.  They are all too new to the NHL to use as a bargaining chip.

 

Since this is about goaltending, how do you feel about a trade involving Ortio and some non-core players, picks, and/or prospects for a number one goalie?  Would you just prefer to keep him as a backup and sign Reimer as a UFA?

[MAC331]

No point in comparing the three.  Johnny has had two standout seasons in his first two years, regardless of age.  He did that in spite of his small size.  Monahan put up good numbers in his 2nd and 3rd year as the number 1 center.  Bennett played most of his first year on the wing.  

 

Three different types of players/talent.  None should be the basis of a deal.  They are all too new to the NHL to use as a bargaining chip.

 

Since this is about goaltending, how do you feel about a trade involving Ortio and some non-core players, picks, and/or prospects for a number one goalie?  Would you just prefer to keep him as a backup and sign Reimer as a UFA?

I have to believe when BT struck the deal with DAL the way he pushed for this #1 pick, he wanted ammunition for his goalie quest.

[jjgallow]

Since this is about goaltending, how do you feel about a trade involving Ortio and some non-core players, picks, and/or prospects for a number one goalie?  Would you just prefer to keep him as a backup and sign Reimer as a UFA?

 

Almost any time you package a deal with multiple assets to get one single superior asset back in return, you typically win.

 

Given that "number one" is still a relatively loose term, even on here, it would depend on the deal, and, for me, the age of that player, as to whether I'd really like it.  Ie,  Last year many on here were calling Hiller a number one.  And no, I wouldn't trade Ortio for Hiller.  Not this year, not last year.

 

But in theory, yeah.   Whichever team gets the best player Typically wins the trade.

 

It would really depend a lot on the other team's needs.   Typically, if they're willing to give up a goalie like that....they don't have a goalie shortage.  So I don't see Ortio as likely.  And that's fine, because I think he still has a good future.   But if the other team needed a goalie asset back for positional reasons, then, yeah.  Sure.   As long as we're not getting Older.

[robrob1974]

I have to believe when BT struck the deal with DAL the way he pushed for this #1 pick, he wanted ammunition for his goalie quest.

I think this makes more sense than using our pick to get a goalie.

[MAC331]

Overstocked team like EDM?  I have never heard anything so funny.  What are they overstocked with?

 

They have a very good LW that takes shifts off and prefers to protect his +- stats over finishing a play.  

They have a top rookie center yet to play a full season, but will be a very good player for years.

They have a big German center that played 1/2 a good season at center, the other 1/2 at wing.

They have a very good RW that doesn't really want to play all the time.

They have a good center that is to slight to play 2-way, and is not a #1.

They have one good D-man and one good D-man prospect.

 

They need to trade two of these players just to have a decent defenseman and a player that will show up.

The cupboards are bare.  Every good prospect is on the team.  

I think Hall and Eberle are good as gone.

I think this makes more sense than using our pick to get a goalie.

Yes I think so. This fishing every possible scenario was to be expected but think in the end we take a player. If we have the DAL 1st or not I am sure BT will be after a goalie or two. The DAL 1st gives us a better chip to start the discussion.

[Krule]

I have to believe when BT struck the deal with DAL the way he pushed for this #1 pick, he wanted ammunition for his goalie quest.

 

This would make the most sense to me as well.

 

I think Hall and Eberle are good as gone.

Yes I think so. This fishing every possible scenario was to be expected but think in the end we take a player. If we have the DAL 1st or not I am sure BT will be after a goalie or two. The DAL 1st gives us a better chip to start the discussion.

 

The first pick from Dallas would be a pretty good bargaining chip for that search. If it becomes a second round pick, we could always add to make the offer more attractive.  

 

I think we can take Matt Murray off any plans we may have been dreaming about going forward. He is playing great under the pressure of playoffs! Pittsburg would be crazy to let him go. 

[MAC331]

This would make the most sense to me as well.

 

 

The first pick from Dallas would be a pretty good bargaining chip for that search. If it becomes a second round pick, we could always add to make the offer more attractive.  

 

I think we can take Matt Murray off any plans we may have been dreaming about going forward. He is playing great under the pressure of playoffs! Pittsburg would be crazy to let him go. 

Agree Matt Murray is likely staying with PIT due to his awesome playoffs so far.

[Krule]

Agree Matt Murray is likely staying with PIT due to his awesome playoffs so far.

 

Does this observation put MAF into play for a possible move? Interesting... 

[travel_dude]

Does this observation put MAF into play for a possible move? Interesting... 

 

I have never been a fan of MAF.  Saying that, he posts some amazing stats on a team I feel doesn't have great defense.

 

The cost would be high in trade.  I don't know that they are ready to part with him yet.  

[MAC331]

Does this observation put MAF into play for a possible move? Interesting... 

I don't think so right now but gives them a good duo for next season, Murray is still cheap.

[Heartbreaker]

I don't think so right now but gives them a good duo for next season, Murray is still cheap.

 

Yup, I think the only way that becomes a possibility is with expansion, and sadly, I think we need a goalie before that comes to fruition. I had sort of hoped that he'd get lit up by the Caps. 

 

Love. 

[LouCifer]

Yup, I think the only way that becomes a possibility is with expansion, and sadly, I think we need a goalie before that comes to fruition. I had sort of hoped that he'd get lit up by the Caps. 

 

Love. 

 

Me too. However, I still hold out hope that Murray does get lit up and MAF gets the chance to step in and never let Murray get the crease again. It would be good for PIT management to see that MAF is still "their guy" and hopefully it adds fanbase pressure to keep MAF in the event of expansion.

[Krule]

Me too. However, I still hold out hope that Murray does get lit up and MAF gets the chance to step in and never let Murray get the crease again. It would be good for PIT management to see that MAF is still "their guy" and hopefully it adds fanbase pressure to keep MAF in the event of expansion.

While Murray remains my first choice, I feel that his price tag just went a lot higher now that the Pens are on to the Eastern Conference Finals riding his coattails. We will find out later tonight if Dallas advances to the Western finals and the second round pick becomes a first round pick for us. Just spit balling, but could that 1st rounder + a 2nd be enough to get Murray out of PIT? Is that over payment to acquire him?

Barring that happening, I think if we take the go big or go home attitude and are serious about getting that starter we need, Anderson from Anaheim is still the way to go. But that's just my opinion.