Goaltending

[Flyerfan52]

Everyone keeps taking this angle on TB and forgetting that they have grown to be a solid contender in the East. I have little doubt Stamko's will move on however the team is proving to be very good without him. If TB wants to remain a contender you stay with proven experience and Bishop provides this for them. If I'm BT I would be asking if we have what it takes to get Vasilevsky.

Stevie Y has a year to decide. Vasilevsky has another year @ 0.925 on that ELC. They won't find a cheaper backup that might be a future starter. 0 pressure to move him.

Bishop is just as movable @ the deadline next year.

If Bishop goes cold & Vasilevsky steps in as savior we could see Bishop moved over the summer.

[MAC331]

Varlamov is your closest comparable and he cost a first round pick and a 2nd round pick. I think a first round pick is likely the starting point for discussions its what else would be included. I think you are something like a 1st round plus at least 1 maybe 2 assets from a list like this:

 

Ferland

Shinkaruk

2nd round

3rd rounder

Jokipakka

Wotherspoon.

maybe Jankowski

 

I think a package in and around that is probably your main discussion point. 

Let's hope we end up with that DAL 1st round pick to start the conversation.

[kehatch]

Stevie Y has a year to decide. Vasilevsky has another year @ 0.925 on that ELC. They won't find a cheaper backup that might be a future starter. 0 pressure to move him.

Bishop is just as movable @ the deadline next year.

If Bishop goes cold & Vasilevsky steps in as savior we could see Bishop moved over the summer.

 

True, unless the expansion draft goes through.  Then there is pressure to move him.  They could still keep him for next season, but then they are backing up against the wall because they will have a time limit to move him.  

Varlamov is your closest comparable and he cost a first round pick and a 2nd round pick. I think a first round pick is likely the starting point for discussions its what else would be included. I think you are something like a 1st round plus at least 1 maybe 2 assets from a list like this:

 

Ferland

Shinkaruk

2nd round

3rd rounder

Jokipakka

Wotherspoon.

maybe Jankowski

 

I think a package in and around that is probably your main discussion point. 

 

Varlamov is a good comparison.  But he had better numbers, a bit more experience, and there wasn't an expansion draft forcing teams to move goalies.  That said, I don't think your far off.  I think a 1st and a 3rd or something like that.  At least in terms of value.  Tampa might be looking for roster players instead.  

[420since1974]

Bishop is ice cold tonight.

 

.692 SV% in the first two periods.

 

4 goals on 17 shots.

[Flyerfan52]

True, unless the expansion draft goes through.  Then there is pressure to move him.  They could still keep him for next season, but then they are backing up against the wall because they will have a time limit to move him.  

 

 

 

Expansion hasn't been officially announced yet & the NHL said they would give teams time to prepare.

If @ the draft 1 new team is announced (doubtful QC will be there as a 2nd with the loonie still weak) & a draft announced for the next year after playoffs end Stevie Y still has that year to decide if he'll re-up Bishop or run with Vasilevsky. It's still the summer, start of the season until the deadline as it is now. Unless 1 falls drastically teams win still be lining up to bid on a better goalie than their current 1. With few top notch goalies available via FA or trade the same teams will be chasing the 1 up for trade.

No pressure.

 

Fans make a lot more of a possible/probable expansion than most GMs are likely to. They'll decide when announced who they'll re-sign & make plans on who will be exposed knowing they can only lose 1 player (2 if the  Canadian $ rebounds @ a record rate which is doubtful). The rule about exposing 25% of the payroll plays into exposing decent players that they wish they or their predecessor hadn't overpaid (Mark Streit/Andrew MacDonald come to mind).

[jjgallow]

Bishop is ice cold tonight.

 

.692 SV% in the first two periods.

 

4 goals on 17 shots.

 

If he were on the Flames he'd be in the AHL now, lol

[nevermissashift]

I would like to see a young goalie that could grow up with this core.

 

Bishop is only 29 but he would bring some experience too..................

[travel_dude]

Bishop is ice cold tonight.

 

.692 SV% in the first two periods.

 

4 goals on 17 shots.

 

Didn't watch the game.  Was it bad goaltending or bad defense?

 

[420since1974]

Both.

 

TB only showed up for the first 5 and last 10 minutes of the game.

[MAC331]

Bishop is only 29 but he would bring some experience too..................

I view our situation as being 2 to 3 years before this team has the maturity and collective experience to be SC challengers. All our core with the exception of Giordano will grow and gain that experience together mostly. I see putting a 6M goalie into the situation as a waste of good money for the immediate. Vasilievsky or someone similar allows the time and money to bring him along at an affordable cost and see if he is your guy. This gives us 2 years to find out plus allow Gilles and MacDonald the proper development time in the minors.

[kehatch]

Expansion hasn't been officially announced yet & the NHL said they would give teams time to prepare.

If @ the draft 1 new team is announced (doubtful QC will be there as a 2nd with the loonie still weak) & a draft announced for the next year after playoffs end Stevie Y still has that year to decide if he'll re-up Bishop or run with Vasilevsky. It's still the summer, start of the season until the deadline as it is now. Unless 1 falls drastically teams win still be lining up to bid on a better goalie than their current 1. With few top notch goalies available via FA or trade the same teams will be chasing the 1 up for trade.

No pressure.

Fans make a lot more of a possible/probable expansion than most GMs are likely to. They'll decide when announced who they'll re-sign & make plans on who will be exposed knowing they can only lose 1 player (2 if the Canadian $ rebounds @ a record rate which is doubtful). The rule about exposing 25% of the payroll plays into exposing decent players that they wish they or their predecessor hadn't overpaid (Mark Streit/Andrew MacDonald come to mind).

The expansion will be announced in June if it's going to happen. If it is announced it will impact what happens over the summer. If it is announced it will change which goalies are available.

[cccsberg]

The expansion will be announced in June if it's going to happen. If it is announced it will impact what happens over the summer. If it is announced it will change which goalies are available.

Yes, absolutely.  Over the next few months there are several dates which will each clear up the fog considerably, starting with Saturday's draft lottery.  Let's win that then see what develops.

[nevermissashift]

I view our situation as being 2 to 3 years before this team has the maturity and collective experience to be SC challengers. All our core with the exception of Giordano will grow and gain that experience together mostly. I see putting a 6M goalie into the situation as a waste of good money for the immediate. Vasilievsky or someone similar allows the time and money to bring him along at an affordable cost and see if he is your guy. This gives us 2 years to find out plus allow Gilles and MacDonald the proper development time in the minors.

That all makes sense but it wouldn't hurt to build around a proven goalie (s) for a few years either; not necessarily Bishop...but someone proven. The dollars and cents sense is always there.

[Flyerfan52]

The expansion will be announced in June if it's going to happen. If it is announced it will impact what happens over the summer. If it is announced it will change which goalies are available.

TB can still follow the same plan.

The options remain the same.

1) After playoffs decide on 1 & trade the other over the summer (Could depend on offers. If a great 1 is received it's time to decide asap.)

2) Play both to start & trade 1 during the season.

3) Keep both & trade the rights to 1 after the 2016-17 season.

 

An announced expansion would impact many things but Stevie Y can still take the same year he'd have without expansion to decide.

[kehatch]

TB can still follow the same plan.

The options remain the same.

1) After playoffs decide on 1 & trade the other over the summer (Could depend on offers. If a great 1 is received it's time to decide asap.)

2) Play both to start & trade 1 during the season.

3) Keep both & trade the rights to 1 after the 2016-17 season.

 

An announced expansion would impact many things but Stevie Y can still take the same year he'd have without expansion to decide.

 

Sure, he could do a lot of things.  Lots of other factors also come into play. In Tampa's case the two biggest factors are how the rest of the playoffs go and if they can sign Stamkos.  But that doesn't mean that the expansion draft doesn't improve the chance that the player becomes available or that we shouldn't speculate.  

 

I am looking at all of the teams with two good goalies.  They have the luxury of moving one and if the expansion draft happens they will have a requirement to move one.  Sure they can wait until the season or even into next off season.  But the longer they wait the more their backs will be against the wall.  

Yes, absolutely.  Over the next few months there are several dates which will each clear up the fog considerably, starting with Saturday's draft lottery.  Let's win that then see what develops.

 

Definitely.  If the Flames win one of the top 3 spots then we don't have a first to trade and it changes what we do at forward.  But if we don't that first could end up on the table and we still need to bring on another forward.  

[phoenix66]

TB can still follow the same plan.

The options remain the same.

1) After playoffs decide on 1 & trade the other over the summer (Could depend on offers. If a great 1 is received it's time to decide asap.)

2) Play both to start & trade 1 during the season.

3) Keep both & trade the rights to 1 after the 2016-17 season.

An announced expansion would impact many things but Stevie Y can still take the same year he'd have without expansion to decide.

Thank you..this is what I have been trying to say. Many observers think that an announced expansion will cause a sudden flurry of teams wanting to get rid of their second goalie. It won't. Teams possibly affected will have all season to decide their direction. I can see a few pushes at the tdl, but I can't see a Pittsburgh for example suddenly needing to unload Fleury or something until they have to..or even want to

The only one goalie I can think of who will he heavily in play by the draft will be Anderson and that's simply due to his RFA status.and even there, they may even choose to re sign him and wait till TDL to pick who may get traded. They will get more for a signed player then than they will for his rights now.

And I still feel in either event they ship him East if they have an opportunity to do so.

Not to say BT can't work some magic but we won't have the sudden deals people think we will

[conundrumed]

What about Dallas having 2 starters, and needing to shed salary for D and a 4th line?

They have not much in D prospects.

How about revisiting the pick they sent us and one player/prospect back for Niemi?

In essence, Russell rental/1st dibs to sign for Niemi and Brett Pollock??

Niemi's $4.5 per, which is pretty much where we want to be for a goalie for now.

Dumb idea?

[cross16]

Thank you..this is what I have been trying to say. Many observers think that an announced expansion will cause a sudden flurry of teams wanting to get rid of their second goalie. It won't. Teams possibly affected will have all season to decide their direction. I can see a few pushes at the tdl, but I can't see a Pittsburgh for example suddenly needing to unload Fleury or something until they have to..or even want to

The only one goalie I can think of who will he heavily in play by the draft will be Anderson and that's simply due to his RFA status.and even there, they may even choose to re sign him and wait till TDL to pick who may get traded. They will get more for a signed player then than they will for his rights now.

And I still feel in either event they ship him East if they have an opportunity to do so.

Not to say BT can't work some magic but we won't have the sudden deals people think we will

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying it is going to create a flurry, it just going to cause teams to rework plans and re consider deals.

 

Pittsburgh for example. Without an expansion draft there is zero reason why they would want to consider trading Murray or Fleury. However, now you have a situation where you are likely going to be faced with losing 1 next year and let's say they pick Murray (which IMO is the rigth move). Do you really want to wait until the trade deadline and then try to move a 5.7 million salary? Good luck getting your maximum value then... Do you wait a full year and then try to trade him in less than a month or do you do it over the summer when you have a chance to full solicit the league and gauge his value? Let's say the get bounced by the Caps, well they are already scheduled to spend right to the cap next season and while that includes a ful roster do they want some flexabilty to make improvements?

 

If the expansion draft is a go its going to create more conversations. Does it mean that all of a suddenly 6-8 goalies are available that maybe were not? No not likely. However, if there was no expansion draft and you put in a call to the Penguins to talk Fleury/Murray I think you get a polite No. With an expansion draft I think they stay on the line and if you are the Flames for example you want the chance to talk.

[kehatch]

Thank you..this is what I have been trying to say. Many observers think that an announced expansion will cause a sudden flurry of teams wanting to get rid of their second goalie. It won't. Teams possibly affected will have all season to decide their direction. I can see a few pushes at the tdl, but I can't see a Pittsburgh for example suddenly needing to unload Fleury or something until they have to..or even want to

The only one goalie I can think of who will he heavily in play by the draft will be Anderson and that's simply due to his RFA status.and even there, they may even choose to re sign him and wait till TDL to pick who may get traded. They will get more for a signed player then than they will for his rights now.

And I still feel in either event they ship him East if they have an opportunity to do so.

Not to say BT can't work some magic but we won't have the sudden deals people think we will

 

I don't think anyone is saying that.  But it will have an impact.  For example, no expansion draft and the Flames could very well go after Hamonic.  If there is an expansion draft we can't.  

 

If an expansion draft is announced that doesn't mean all of a sudden all of Murray/Fleury, Bishop/Vasilevskiy, Andersen/Gibson, Elliot/Allen, etc become available.  But it does mean that there is a better chance that Treliving can find a goalie because more teams will be open to the possibility of trading their second goalie.  

 

I really don't know why anyone would want to shut down off season speculation.  Especially over a legitimate discussion like the availability of a goalie for the Flames.  

[cross16]

What about Dallas having 2 starters, and needing to shed salary for D and a 4th line?

They have not much in D prospects.

How about revisiting the pick they sent us and one player/prospect back for Niemi?

In essence, Russell rental/1st dibs to sign for Niemi and Brett Pollock??

Niemi's $4.5 per, which is pretty much where we want to be for a goalie for now.

Dumb idea?

 

 

This is just me, but i'm not giving up a 1st round pick for a goalie who might be here for a year or two. Flames are not close enough to competing for anything important to warrant giving up that much for someone like Niemi. If you are going to give up that first, you need someone who can stick around a little while. 

[kehatch]

This is just me, but i'm not giving up a 1st round pick for a goalie who might be here for a year or two. Flames are not close enough to competing for anything important to warrant giving up that much for someone like Niemi. If you are going to give up that first, you need someone who can stick around a little while. 

 

Certainly not for Niemi.  He is an average goalie, 32 years old, and has 2-years left under contract.  If your talking someone like Ben Bishop I am listening because I think you acquire him with the intent of signing him long term.  But not Niemi.  

 

That said, if that Dallas 1st becomes a late second I would consider it.  Niemi is a decent enough plan C to tandem with Ortio and buy you some time.  His salary and term fits very well and he is an upgrade over Hiller/Ramo.  But I would look at other options first.  

[cross16]

 

That said, if that Dallas 1st becomes a late second I would consider it.  Niemi is a decent enough plan C to tandem with Ortio and buy you some time.  His salary and term fits very well and he is an upgrade over Hiller/Ramo.  But I would look at other options first.  

 

Even at that I personally still wouldn't. I think Niemi is just about done in the league and maybe has 1 year left. I think he will be similar to HIller where it won't be a very slow fall off it will be a rapid decline and he'll go from being OK to out of the league in a season or two. I don't want to be part of that and certainly not for a 2nd round pick. 

[LouCifer]

I don't think anyone is saying it is going to create a flurry, it just going to cause teams to rework plans and re consider deals.

 

Pittsburgh for example. Without an expansion draft there is zero reason why they would want to consider trading Murray or Fleury. However, now you have a situation where you are likely going to be faced with losing 1 next year and let's say they pick Murray (which IMO is the rigth move). Do you really want to wait until the trade deadline and then try to move a 5.7 million salary? Good luck getting your maximum value then... Do you wait a full year and then try to trade him in less than a month or do you do it over the summer when you have a chance to full solicit the league and gauge his value? Let's say the get bounced by the Caps, well they are already scheduled to spend right to the cap next season and while that includes a ful roster do they want some flexabilty to make improvements?

 

If the expansion draft is a go its going to create more conversations. Does it mean that all of a suddenly 6-8 goalies are available that maybe were not? No not likely. However, if there was no expansion draft and you put in a call to the Penguins to talk Fleury/Murray I think you get a polite No. With an expansion draft I think they stay on the line and if you are the Flames for example you want the chance to talk.

 

This is exactly what I've been trying to say, thank you for explaining it perhaps better than I, Cross (and Kehatch!). I don't believe there will be a fleury of goalie activity , but goalies who would otherwise not be available may now have a price tag. And as far as I'm concerned (relating to the bolded text in Cross's post above) the price drops closer to the trade deadline. (I haven't been able to successfully source how many goalies have been traded on deadline day, but I would venture a guess they are of the 'backup plan' ilk, not a Fleury or Murray type)

[JTech780]

The expansion will be announced in June if it's going to happen. If it is announced it will impact what happens over the summer. If it is announced it will change which goalies are available.

 

If expansion is announced this year and a draft is held next off-season, I am not sure it will really impact what teams do this summer, it might to certain extent, but I don't foresee a bunch moves.

 

The timing of the expansion draft will be interesting. If they place it in between the regular draft and the opening of free agency, it could make the regular draft very interesting. That's when I think you will see a lot of moves.

 

Teams like Pittsburgh and Tampa that are chasing the cup, aren't going to move out number 1 goalies and possibly limit their chances at winning the cup next year because they might lose a goalie to expansion draft the year after.

[MAC331]

If expansion is announced this year and a draft is held next off-season, I am not sure it will really impact what teams do this summer, it might to certain extent, but I don't foresee a bunch moves.

 

The timing of the expansion draft will be interesting. If they place it in between the regular draft and the opening of free agency, it could make the regular draft very interesting. That's when I think you will see a lot of moves.

 

Teams like Pittsburgh and Tampa that are chasing the cup, aren't going to move out number 1 goalies and possibly limit their chances at winning the cup next year because they might lose a goalie to expansion draft the year after.

Questions: How many players does the expansion team get to draft from other teams and do they have to pick someone from each team ? Can they pick more from one team than another and is there a limit ?