Goaltending

[MAC331]

I think goalie is the easiest position to find via trade. Every season one or two guys come out of nowhere and shoe they are starters. Dubnyk last season is an example.

Bernier is a cheap option. Fredrick Anderson is an expensive but ultimately better option. Varlamov is a possibility.

Every team needs one and only one (speaking of starters). That equals low demand and potentially good availability.

I just don't know if it's better to go after a goalie in the season. Anaheim (for example) probably isn't ready to trade Anderson and the Flames have no chance of trading Ramo or Hiller. So it might be better to wait.

I think you wait until the offseason unless a deal comes up.

[travel_dude]

Good article about some options:

 

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/12/6/10-options-for-the-flames-in-net

[robrob1974]

Good article about some options:

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/12/6/10-options-for-the-flames-in-net

I like the idea of taking a chance on Enroth. If we can add a defensive defence man/shut down guy, and from the article, it sounds like there could be more to him than meets the eye. Being on a tank Buffalo team his numbers would be lying for the most part.

Although I haven't seen him much, it just sounds like he succeeded at every level so far, minus the NHL, which could be circumstance.

Riemer could be an option? Sign both.

[xstrike]

I like the idea of taking a chance on Enroth. If we can add a defensive defence man/shut down guy, and from the article, it sounds like there could be more to him than meets the eye. Being on a tank Buffalo team his numbers would be lying for the most part.

Although I haven't seen him much, it just sounds like he succeeded at every level so far, minus the NHL, which could be circumstance.

Riemer could be an option? Sign both. And we have insurance.

I have never been sold on Ortio. His save% last year doesn't speak starter in my opinion.

 

I would go with Enroth and Raanta. Low cost and unknown on average teams. So if one breaks out, it's a win. If both break out, we can move one for pieces. If neither work out, we play the goaltender shuffle for the season and aren't out too much money. #3 on my radar is Bernier. I think he has a lesser chance and even if he does make it, it'll take a while to get the confidence back (Dubnyk).

[tmac70]

I would go with Enroth and Raanta. Low cost and unknown on average teams. So if one breaks out, it's a win. If both break out, we can move one for pieces. If neither work out, we play the goaltender shuffle for the season and aren't out too much money. #3 on my radar is Bernier. I think he has a lesser chance and even if he does make it, it'll take a while to get the confidence back (Dubnyk).

The rise of Dubnyk is based off of Dcoverage in front of him. Once he got the Oiler's stench form his blood he turned him game around. He is an average goalie that is playing on a team with above average D. Average goal tending will not cut it, unless we have stellar d coverage. Both goaltending and our dman, d coverage are mirror image of where we are in the standings.

[robrob1974]

The rise of Dubnyk is based off of Dcoverage in front of him. Once he got the Oiler's stench form his blood he turned him game around. He is an average goalie that is playing on a team with above average D. Average goal tending will not cut it, unless we have stellar d coverage. Both goaltending and our dman, d coverage are mirror image of where we are in the standings.

But he played good in Arizona as well.

[MAC331]

I would go with Enroth and Raanta. Low cost and unknown on average teams. So if one breaks out, it's a win. If both break out, we can move one for pieces. If neither work out, we play the goaltender shuffle for the season and aren't out too much money. #3 on my radar is Bernier. I think he has a lesser chance and even if he does make it, it'll take a while to get the confidence back (Dubnyk).

I would agree with those two choices Enroth and Raanta. I would ride out this year with what we have and sign one or both in the offseason, Likely to get one not both but that would be fine.

I would like to see BT use any value pieces we have to enhance our top 6 forward positions and/or a top 4 defenseman or anyone better than Wideman or Russell. LOL

[travel_dude]

I would go with Enroth and Raanta. Low cost and unknown on average teams. So if one breaks out, it's a win. If both break out, we can move one for pieces. If neither work out, we play the goaltender shuffle for the season and aren't out too much money. #3 on my radar is Bernier. I think he has a lesser chance and even if he does make it, it'll take a while to get the confidence back (Dubnyk).

 

Either of these could be a good 1b option in nets.  Both is smacking of what the Oilers did; have two career backups fighting for a starter job, while a 3rd is the guy that won the job (Scrivens, Talbot and Nilsson).

 

We still need that #1 guy.  

[JTech780]

My only concern with both Raanta and Enroth is that are very small, both are under 6'. If you look at the top end goalies most of of them are 6'2" or taller. I'm not saying Raanta or Enroth can't have success, it's just less likely.

[cross16]

I would be interestd in Enroth or Rannta as a option but I dont' think either are number 1s that you hitch your wagon to for say 60 games. I would have more interest in Raanta then Enroth as even though Buffalo wasn't a very good team it seems like every time Enroth has been given a shot to be more than a backup he can't make that transition.

 

I think JImmy Howard is a reasonable target. When healthy I think he is a very good goalie althought the ticket isn't fantastic for the next few years but I think the cost would be quite low. Bishop is the guy I would be the most aggressive after as I do think its not out of the question the Lightning move him with all the contracts coming up.

 

Long story short though, i don't think an improvement will happen midseason and is probably an offseason problem but no questions in my mind the Flames need better goaltending. I hope they can make a run with Ramo/Hiller but I have my doubts. 

[MAC331]

I would be interestd in Enroth or Rannta as a option but I dont' think either are number 1s that you hitch your wagon to for say 60 games. I would have more interest in Raanta then Enroth as even though Buffalo wasn't a very good team it seems like every time Enroth has been given a shot to be more than a backup he can't make that transition.

 

I think JImmy Howard is a reasonable target. When healthy I think he is a very good goalie althought the ticket isn't fantastic for the next few years but I think the cost would be quite low. Bishop is the guy I would be the most aggressive after as I do think its not out of the question the Lightning move him with all the contracts coming up.

 

Long story short though, i don't think an improvement will happen midseason and is probably an offseason problem but no questions in my mind the Flames need better goaltending. I hope they can make a run with Ramo/Hiller but I have my doubts. 

Perhaps this is where the reality of our rebuild raises its head. I like the thinking of remaining with some experience in the net while the other sections mature together and we don't have those parts 100% either. We shouldn't forget that over the next few years we will lose the overpaid veteran presence we have supporting the cast now and will be depending on the players brought in and up from the farm.

[420since1974]

IMO, the Flames will have to trade for or sign a UFA goaltender, who can take the #1 spot for at least 2 seasons.

 

They need one that can play slightly above average consistently for 55 - 60 games, plus a reasonably priced backup (max $6M for the pair).

 

I personally don't expect that Hiller, Orito, & Ramo will be any better than backups, now or in the future.

Only Orito could be signed to a value contract.

[The_People1]

We should target Fredrik Andersen if he's available at the right price.

[jjgallow]

We should target Fredrik Andersen if he's available at the right price.

 

Maybe we need to target Mitch Korn?

 

Or someone along those lines.  They could have anyone for the right price.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/goalie-yoda--from-analytics-to-attitude--inside-mitch-korn-s-coaching-genius-161750425.html

 

[Dmac1103]

What about looking at a younger goalie who is blocked from having a chance to become a starter in the NHL. A guy like Kristers Gudlevskis who has shown good potential. Then add a vet this off season to help groom him or Gilles. We are starting to have a good mix of Vets and young stars on both offense or defense now we need that in goal.

[CheersMan]

I’m not adding a GT right now.  I’m inclined to ride Romo and Hiller for the remainder of the season.  If the playoffs should ever become mathematically unattainable then I’m riding Ortio to see what we got.  In the offseason I’ll be inquiring about Bishop.  TB needs to free up a few $$’s if they intend on keeping Stamkos and they seem to have a couple of cheaper options in net.

[travel_dude]

I’m not adding a GT right now.  I’m inclined to ride Romo and Hiller for the remainder of the season.  If the playoffs should ever become mathematically unattainable then I’m riding Ortio to see what we got.  In the offseason I’ll be inquiring about Bishop.  TB needs to free up a few $$’s if they intend on keeping Stamkos and they seem to have a couple of cheaper options in net.

 

Regardless of whether TB needs to free up space, they would want a lot for a goalie of Bishop's calibre.  I think it would be more than CGY is willing to pay.  Riding Ramo and Hiller is likely to eliminate the Flames sooner than later, so I would be looking to upgrade sooner than this summer.

 

Unlike previous years where American Thanksgiving was the point of no return, this year the Pacific is going to be a horserace up till at least TDL.  If there is something better than Hiller, then I think BT needs to actively pursue that right now.  Ramo is most likely going to be what he is today, not a lot better.  Hiller has never seemed to recover his form from last year, early in the season.  He is a big risk right now, as evidenced by Hartley's reluctance to play him.  If he was available to play, Poulin would probably get starts before Hiller.

[xstrike]

What about looking at a younger goalie who is blocked from having a chance to become a starter in the NHL. A guy like Kristers Gudlevskis who has shown good potential. Then add a vet this off season to help groom him or Gilles. We are starting to have a good mix of Vets and young stars on both offense or defense now we need that in goal.

But who? Kristers is going to get the #1 in TB because of the cap. Who could we target?

[jjgallow]

But who? Kristers is going to get the #1 in TB because of the cap. Who could we target?

 

Ortio should be in game shape again in a couple weeks time.  We could target him

 

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4090

[DirtyDeeds]

What about looking at a younger goalie who is blocked from having a chance to become a starter in the NHL. A guy like Kristers Gudlevskis who has shown good potential. Then add a vet this off season to help groom him or Gilles. We are starting to have a good mix of Vets and young stars on both offense or defense now we need that in goal.

This sounds a lot like the Oilers and Cam Talbot. How has that worked out for them. Do you really think we can find another Kipper?

What about looking at a younger goalie who is blocked from having a chance to become a starter in the NHL. A guy like Kristers Gudlevskis who has shown good potential. Then add a vet this off season to help groom him or Gilles. We are starting to have a good mix of Vets and young stars on both offense or defense now we need that in goal.

This sounds a lot like the Oilers and Cam Talbot. How has that worked out for them. Do you really think we can find another Kipper?

[tmac70]

We have no tenders presently that are legit #1's. Ramo is a back up at best Hiller is done and Orito would be a push to be a back up in this league. Unfortunately we have to ride this out this is who we have right now.  Last years success is the result of this year's failures. This club was held together to allowed the opportunity to repeat. Everyone from, fans, hockey analysts  to management believed we would continue from last season, we are witness to what last year should have been.

 

The need for a goalie is equal to the requirements throughout the roster. There is no guarantee of upgrade and the cost would be astronomical IMHO the risk out weighs the return at present. At FA have a look, possible trade this summer, but as for now ride it out trading for a "Potetnial" Starter is to risky at present.

[MAC331]

We have no tenders presently that are legit #1's. Ramo is a back up at best Hiller is done and Orito would be a push to be a back up in this league. Unfortunately we have to ride this out this is who we have right now.  Last years success is the result of this year's failures. This club was held together to allowed the opportunity to repeat. Everyone from, fans, hockey analysts  to management believed we would continue from last season, we are witness to what last year should have been.

 

The need for a goalie is equal to the requirements throughout the roster. There is no guarantee of upgrade and the cost would be astronomical IMHO the risk out weighs the return at present. At FA have a look, possible trade this summer, but as for now ride it out trading for a "Potetnial" Starter is to risky at present.

This is why you need patience in a rebuild, all the answers you need are not in place as you sort through the "potential" developing. There seems to be a lot of talent evaluators on this forum, I see comments where Ortio may not even be a good back up now and we have seen him play what 12 NHL games, amazing deduction. Until a so called #1 goalie presents himself or one is developed our GM can only look for better than what he feels he has now. We don't have the trade parts (without using core players) to obtain a star goalie so BT would be well advised to keep improving the other areas of need where there is a broader talent pool.

[wintersd]

Reverse Vertical Horizon Style by Rick St. Croix. Carey Price and Henry Lindquist use this method. Seem it is helping them. 

[travel_dude]

We have no tenders presently that are legit #1's. Ramo is a back up at best Hiller is done and Orito would be a push to be a back up in this league. Unfortunately we have to ride this out this is who we have right now.  Last years success is the result of this year's failures. This club was held together to allowed the opportunity to repeat. Everyone from, fans, hockey analysts  to management believed we would continue from last season, we are witness to what last year should have been.

 

The need for a goalie is equal to the requirements throughout the roster. There is no guarantee of upgrade and the cost would be astronomical IMHO the risk out weighs the return at present. At FA have a look, possible trade this summer, but as for now ride it out trading for a "Potetnial" Starter is to risky at present.

 

The only risk of trading for a legit #1 today is the cost in assets and the potential to climb out of 30th.  The positive outcome from last season was playoff experience, the growth of Johnny, Monahan, Bennett, Ferland, and seeing Brodie for what he is.  We were able to sign two FA's that would likely not have signed with a 30th place team.  

 

This year's shaky start has more to do with goaltending than anything else.  The coach using a win/you're in system and not knowing who the #1 guy is.  The GM keeping 3 goalies to give more options.  The coach not trusting an AHL tender.  The two main goaltender playing like crap in their 1st game in a rotation.  Soft goals.  Shaky starts.

 

If a goalie is available that you feel you can win with and afford the trade, you make that trade every day.  You can improve every other part of the team and still be a 30th place team with 30th place goaltending. 

[MAC331]

The only risk of trading for a legit #1 today is the cost in assets and the potential to climb out of 30th.  The positive outcome from last season was playoff experience, the growth of Johnny, Monahan, Bennett, Ferland, and seeing Brodie for what he is.  We were able to sign two FA's that would likely not have signed with a 30th place team.  

 

This year's shaky start has more to do with goaltending than anything else.  The coach using a win/you're in system and not knowing who the #1 guy is.  The GM keeping 3 goalies to give more options.  The coach not trusting an AHL tender.  The two main goaltender playing like crap in their 1st game in a rotation.  Soft goals.  Shaky starts.

 

If a goalie is available that you feel you can win with and afford the trade, you make that trade every day.  You can improve every other part of the team and still be a 30th place team with 30th place goaltending. 

I think your statement is wrong entirely. Yes our goaltending has contributed but look around the ice and there are any number of players not playing up to standard.(I don't need to name them all) The team has regressed this year due to these players not playing well. Recently team play has been improving and we have gained in the win column however a lot still needs to improve if we want a sniff at the playoffs again.

Any GM can only make moves as they present themselves, I honestly don't see an available upgrade for a goalie right now. We can try someone else and hope it improves but I'm not sure this would help.

I'm not sure I care if we make the playoffs this year (great if we do) but I would like to see a number of smart moves that better the future for us. This means using some of the players we know have some value but not part of the foreseeable future used in trades to get us players that are better fits going forward.

 

I think we all mostly agree the needs are a goalie, top 6 LW and RW and a top 4 defenseman ideally. Our pipeline looks like it could take care of our other needs outside of these top priorities.