JTech780 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 We have seen 2 games of Ortio (plus 2 flawless relief stints). Hiller played 7, but his last was a stinker (the one he was injured). Ramo played 14. Hiller has been the worst of the three. Don't get me wrong I don't expect Hiller to come in here and save the day and get us into the playoffs. Ortio was just as bad as Hiller in his couple of games and it extremely obvious that he doesn't have the confidence of the coach and I would argue that he never had as Hartley said from the beginning of the year that Ortio was the 3rd option. So why keep Ortio up here if he isn't going to play? Hartley had plenty of opportunities to get Ortio into a game over the last month but he kept going back to Ramo even when he was terrible. There is a chance that Ortio is better than Hiller, even if he has yet to show it, but it is a moot point if the coach doesn't play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Orio was never the goalie of the future. Does he get claimed who knows. Really if he is on waivers and is 3 choice with what we have odds are he clears, really not sure who wants him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hopefully Hiller gets the start vs Arizona. Ramo needs a break and Hiller playing in game 1 of a back to back eases him in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Argus Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Oh well, I guess... The goaltending situation has been bungled right from the start of the season. I don't like the result, but at least now it's put to rest. If the team is firmly out of the playoffs later in the season, I hope (and expect) we'll see Ortio back up (assuming he's not claimed). Just to see what we have in him. I don't think the limited use we saw this season so far provided much indication one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 I think the Flames should not have signed Ramo to another contract. They should have traded him earlier if possible or let him go. He is an acceptable goalie, but not great. That matters not now I suppose. They should have gone with Hiller and Ortio come hell or high water. My sense is that they think it is too early to put Ortio in net especially when the Flames are playing poorly. So, send him down and see if he clears waivers. It might be inevitable that we lose him either way. We need someone to be a regular goaltender while the young-uns develop assuming that we expect the rebuild to end in a couple of years. Have we ever actually developed a solid goalie? I believe we developed Kidd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 From: https://twitter.com/KristenOdlandCH/status/669568028149846016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 From: https://twitter.com/KristenOdlandCH/status/669568028149846016 I wonder what Bob will do if Hiller loses his first game back. Will he give Hiller the chance like Ramo had or will he return to the win/you are in scenario? So if you were the coach, which game do you give to Hiller? "Easier" game against the Yotes or HNIC game against the Sharks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 I think the Flames should not have signed Ramo to another contract. They should have traded him earlier if possible or let him go. He is an acceptable goalie, but not great. That matters not now I suppose. They should have gone with Hiller and Ortio come hell or high water. My sense is that they think it is too early to put Ortio in net especially when the Flames are playing poorly. So, send him down and see if he clears waivers. It might be inevitable that we lose him either way. We need someone to be a regular goaltender while the young-uns develop assuming that we expect the rebuild to end in a couple of years. Have we ever actually developed a solid goalie? I believe we developed Kidd. Same, I don't think the Flames should've re-signed Ramo either. Clearly, they mistakenly thought, Competition can transform mediocre goaltending into elite goaltending There will be a trade market for whoever of Hiller and Ramo is playing poorly Someone will steal Ortio off waivers so he will be on the team no matter what In terms of goalies we developed, all I can think of is Dwayne Roloson and JS Giguere, both of whom went on to have successful careers with other teams. Kidd was a disaster. We rushed him and he was ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ortio cleared waivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Same, I don't think the Flames should've re-signed Ramo either. Clearly, they mistakenly thought, Competition can transform mediocre goaltending into elite goaltending There will be a trade market for whoever of Hiller and Ramo is playing poorly Someone will steal Ortio off waivers so he will be on the team no matter what In terms of goalies we developed, all I can think of is Dwayne Roloson and JS Giguere, both of whom went on to have successful careers with other teams. Kidd was a disaster. We rushed him and he was ruined. While I don't agree that they shoulnd't have signed Ramo i do agree that this is where they mis read the market. I'm not a Hiller fan and I wasn't convinced that Ortio was ready for full time NHL duty so I liked brining back Ramo but carrying 3 of them and not dealing with it has been an embarassing situation for the team. I know people dump on the Flames for failing to develop a goalie but you have to remember how difficult it is. honestly, I bet you can go team by team in the NHL and find that just about all of them have struggled developing goalies at the NHL level becuase it is one of the most difficult things to develop especially when you have that stud like the flames have in Kipper. Its like a franchise QB in the NFL and going from 1 stud to another is so improbably that few teams can pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ortio officially assigned to Stockton. Same, I don't think the Flames should've re-signed Ramo either. Clearly, they mistakenly thought, Competition can transform mediocre goaltending into elite goaltending There will be a trade market for whoever of Hiller and Ramo is playing poorly Someone will steal Ortio off waivers so he will be on the team no matter what In terms of goalies we developed, all I can think of is Dwayne Roloson and JS Giguere, both of whom went on to have successful careers with other teams. Kidd was a disaster. We rushed him and he was ruined. My biggest issue with signing Ramo is more that we overpaid by about $2mill on him. I would have much rather had Neuvirth at $1.6mill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ortio officially assigned to Stockton. My biggest issue with signing Ramo is more that we overpaid by about $2mill on him. I would have much rather had Neuvirth at $1.6mill. I totally agree! Even 2M might have been ok. Not the 3.9m. I was ok with it too, but the price was off. I worry about that with Treliving. I am noticing a trend of overvaluing players and signing to higher than deserved salaries. Ramo Hamilton Engelland Raymond Backlund Bouma All overpaid, if even just a tad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 I totally agree! Even 2M might have been ok. Not the 3.9m. I was ok with it too, but the price was off. I worry about that with Treliving. I am noticing a trend of overvaluing players and signing to higher than deserved salaries. Ramo Hamilton Engelland Raymond Backlund Bouma All overpaid, if even just a tad. I think the overpaid was on purpose, you have to remember Calgary after Iginla was labelled not where to go if you could go anywhere else as a FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 That's the argument for Raymond and Engelland. The rest are just overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 I totally agree! Even 2M might have been ok. Not the 3.9m. I was ok with it too, but the price was off. I worry about that with Treliving. I am noticing a trend of overvaluing players and signing to higher than deserved salaries. Ramo Hamilton Engelland Raymond Backlund Bouma All overpaid, if even just a tad. Ramo and Raymond i will give you but the rest, no way. Hamilton - 42 point season last year at 22 year old for 5.5 on a 6 year deal is not overpaying. there were rumors he was worth 6 plus. Don't read into a slow start you have to look big picture. Engelland - Flames were one of many teams in on Englelland. he is overpaid a bit but if they didn't pay him that someone else would have so based on market you can't call him overpaid. Not to mention i would argue with how solid Englelland has played he's been worth it. not all 5/6 dman can step into a top 4 role like he did. Backlund - seriously? 3.75 is a very good value contract. Look at what centers get out there and what Backlund does. Bouma - Agree he got too much but this was a very unique contract situation with Bouma being a UFA in 2 years time. You do a 1 year deal at say 1.5 (which is where his value probably was) but then if he repeats the sason he is worth cloer to 3 being so close to UFA and if he doesn't repeat you still have to qualify him at 1.5 in order to keep him prior to UFA. So Treliving decided to buy a UFA year and to do that you have to pay more, but were are talking maybe 400K a year more than you would ideally want. Not a great contract, but necessary if you want to keep Lance Bouma around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Kevin Poulin just had surgery so sounds like he's out for 4 to 6 weeks. Jon Gillies is still day-to-day. This means Ortio will get lots of starts between now and when those guys come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Weren't they deciding whether or not Gillies needs surgery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Weren't they deciding whether or not Gillies needs surgery? They are but they still have him listed as day to day. The rumors are he needs surgery, Flames have not confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ramo will get 12th start in a row. A little surprised that Hiller didn't get the "easier" start but I guess it isn't a big deal either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Pat Steinberg (@Fan960Steinberg) tweeted at 4:03 PM on Thu, Nov 26, 2015: Sure sounded to me like Ortio declined the option of a conditioning stint when talking to Treliving today. Very interesting. This is very interesting if true. I wouldn't blame him, going through waivers with the potential to get claimed was a better option for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Pat Steinberg (@Fan960Steinberg) tweeted at 4:03 PM on Thu, Nov 26, 2015: Sure sounded to me like Ortio declined the option of a conditioning stint when talking to Treliving today. Very interesting. This is very interesting if true. I wouldn't blame him, going through waivers with the potential to get claimed was a better option for him. I didn't see the interview, but I know there is speculation that the conditioning stint was derailed becuase of Hiller's injury. It's interesting becuase he talked today about how important it is for him to play so a bit interesting he would refuse a chance to play althought I agree JTech that forcing them to put him on waivers and maybe get claimed was not a bad option from his camp either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 I didn't see the interview, but I know there is speculation that the conditioning stint was derailed becuase of Hiller's injury. It's interesting becuase he talked today about how important it is for him to play so a bit interesting he would refuse a chance to play althought I agree JTech that forcing them to put him on waivers and maybe get claimed was not a bad option from his camp either. This is the truth, and honestly how many players dont want to play games. Especially a 24 year old goaltender, why would he want to sit in the press box. Im sure he wants to get better, and prove to someone, this organization or another, that he is ready to play in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 This is the truth, and honestly how many players dont want to play games. Especially a 24 year old goaltender, why would he want to sit in the press box. Im sure he wants to get better, and prove to someone, this organization or another, that he is ready to play in the NHL. I think he was forcing the decision by BT. Keep him up or waive him. Worse case is you get claimed by Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirakzigil Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 I think he was forcing the decision by BT. Keep him up or waive him. Worse case is you get claimed by Toronto. Could be. But he also would have been a backup to Gillies before his injury. Ortio is where he always should of been in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Could be. But he also would have been a backup to Gillies before his injury. Ortio is where he always should of been in my opinion. Unless I am mistaken, he didn't want to go down on a conditioning stint now, with both Gillies and Poulin injured. End result is the same, but he could have been claimed as an NHL goalie. EDIT: Scratch that thought. It was discussed earlier in the season. Probably when there were three goalies all healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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