Goaltending

[conundrumed]

I think having Ramo start 50 games or so and Ortio taking the rest would be ideale as I think 30 NHL games is just as good as 50 or so in the AHL. Problem I see with that is you have to commit those starts to Ortio and Hartley, as a lot of coaches would, likes to ride his guy so my fear there is Ortio could go stretches of 2 weeks without starting. So even though the number of games would probably work I think it's best to go and get a backup but the tricky thing there is I think ideally you'd only want then on a one year deal because you do have Ortio who isn't going to sit in the AHL forever. A name I have seen yet who I think could fit is Tomas Greiss. He's backed up workhorse goalies, in case Ramo turns into that, and has flashed some potential here and there and would likely come on a pretty reasonable contract and I think the potential for him to play up to 30 games or so beats being in pheonix where you know mike smith is going to play a ton.

Then the problem becomes, "wow, Greiss was great". Now what?

Is it outfitting Greiss, where does that leave Ortio, etc.

Tough call.

That's why I want our 2 best goalies on the big club. Prop up the A with an addition, if required, but not an addition in place of a capable goalie we likely already have as our 2nd best option.

It'll wind up being like our LW, imho. Too many assets there...enough solutions to create confusion.

Buy into what you've got. If that's a problem, address it. But not before it's a problem.

[kehatch]

Ortio didn't look ready when he was in the NHL.  I agree with keeping him in the AHL where he will do well, develop, and get lots of starts.  If there is an injury than you can call him up.  I think if you call him up you risk him not getting starts for long stretches.  The Heat should be a great team next season.  Let him play there IMO.  

[Carty]

Just an observation of how times are changing for the Flames...   Ramo played 40 games for the flames this season, and that is the most for a goalie other than Kipper since 02/03 when Turek played 65...

[DirtyDeeds]

What bothered me about Hartley early in the season was him leaning on JMac and then Berra, while Ramo sat for weeks at a time.  If Ramo lost the next start, he would only get one more game to prove he was the go to guy.  You are right that he would probably do the same with Ortio.  I would prefer we ride Ramo until the end of next season, with a capable backup.  Ramo plays hot, he gets a new contract.  Otherwise, we bring up Ortio with a decent 30-40 game backup.  Gillies gets the starter job in the AHL, and eventually becomes Ortio's backup.  

They only gave JMac a few games to start the season and sent him through waivers shortly after. Considering they said all 3 goalies had a chance for the starting position this is not unusual or hard to understand at all.

 

They then had to determine who between Berra and Ramo was the best. Berra had a 1 year contract and Ramo a 2 year contract so it makes perfect sense to then give Berra a bunch of  starts as the only real urgency was due to Berra and his contract. Ramo sitting for a few weeks with only a start or two was the fallout of that decision but the realities were Berra was playing better at that time anyway.

 

Ramo got his chance both before and after the injury. After his return he grabbed that oppotunity.

[CheersMan]

They only gave JMac a few games to start the season and sent him through waivers shortly after. Considering they said all 3 goalies had a chance for the starting position this is not unusual or hard to understand at all.

 

They then had to determine who between Berra and Ramo was the best. Berra had a 1 year contract and Ramo a 2 year contract so it makes perfect sense to then give Berra a bunch of  starts as the only real urgency was due to Berra and his contract. Ramo sitting for a few weeks with only a start or two was the fallout of that decision but the realities were Berra was playing better at that time anyway.

 

Ramo got his chance both before and after the injury. After his return he grabbed that oppotunity.

Bingo! That's how I seen it as well. Berra did get a block of 10 games or so but he was playing well at the time. He was also lights out in the shootout, unbeatable in fact. Ramo got his opportunity again mid Feb and he never gave it back.

[travel_dude]

They only gave JMac a few games to start the season and sent him through waivers shortly after. Considering they said all 3 goalies had a chance for the starting position this is not unusual or hard to understand at all.

 

They then had to determine who between Berra and Ramo was the best. Berra had a 1 year contract and Ramo a 2 year contract so it makes perfect sense to then give Berra a bunch of  starts as the only real urgency was due to Berra and his contract. Ramo sitting for a few weeks with only a start or two was the fallout of that decision but the realities were Berra was playing better at that time anyway.

 

Ramo got his chance both before and after the injury. After his return he grabbed that oppotunity.

If Berra had been playing lights out, I could have understood, but the reality was he lost every game and only won in SO or OT.

 

 

Nov 3 @CHI Won 3-2 (OT) 6-6-2 Reto Berra Corey Crawford 21,229

Nov 5 @MIN Lost 1-5 6-7-2 Josh Harding Reto Berra 17,708

Nov 7 @STL Lost 2-3 6-8-2 Brian Elliott Reto Berra 14,877

Nov 8 @COL Lost 2-4 6-9-2 Jean-Sebastien Giguere Karri Ramo 17,620

Nov 12 SJ Lost 2-3 (OT) 6-9-3 Alex Stalock Reto Berra 19,289

Nov 14 DAL Lost 3-7 6-10-3 Kari Lehtonen Reto Berra 19,289

Nov 16 EDM Lost 2-4 6-11-3 Devan Dubnyk Reto Berra 19,289

Nov 18 @WPG Won 5-4 (SO) 7-11-3 Reto Berra Al Montoya 15,004

Nov 20 CLB Lost 1-2 (OT) 7-11-4 Sergei Bobrovsky Reto Berra 19,289

Nov 22 FLA Won 4-3 (SO) 8-11-4 Reto Berra Tim Thomas 19,289

Nov 27 CHI Lost 2-3 8-12-4 Antti Raanta Reto Berra 19,289

Nov 29 @ANA Lost 2-5 8-13-4 Frederik Andersen Reto Berra 17,174  

 

 

At this point it doesn't matter.  Hartley has gotten away from that type of decision making, and goes with who he thinks gives the best chance to win, or who worked the hardest in practice.

[kehatch]

Hartley really liked Berra from over seas. He started him in the AHL to get acclimated to NA. But once he got called up he was handed the starter position. That November stretch was inexplicable. I could have seen giving Berra 2 starts to Ramos 1 to get him caught up. But Ramo, a guy trying to find his own legs in NA, sat the bench for a month.

But it is moot now. It all turned out.

[senor_incendiarse]

Bingo! That's how I seen it as well. Berra did get a block of 10 games or so but he was playing well at the time. He was also lights out in the shootout, unbeatable in fact. Ramo got his opportunity again mid Feb and he never gave it back.

The main problem I have with this as a compliment is that I think a good chunk of his shootout wins he had a 2 goal lead going into the 3rd.  So in ways he was generous in giving away points, something you can't do if you're actually in a playoff race.  Berra was like a bottom of the rotation starting pitcher, could be outstanding for the first half of the game, but if you leave him in too long there is a good chance he'll get hit hard.  3rd periods were dreadful for him and they seemed like they needed a closer.  The fact I just used a baseball comparison for an NHL goalie is all that needs to be said about Berra.

[kehatch]

I think I would rather have Ramo than Fleury.

[s4xon]

I'm interested to see who starts as the Flames backup next year.  Will they re-sign Jmac?  Or go for a coveted UFA?

 

Questions, questions, so many questions.

[Wreckening]

I'm interested to see who starts as the Flames backup next year.  Will they re-sign Jmac?  Or go for a coveted UFA?

 

Questions, questions, so many questions.

We have the cap room for sure.  Would any of the UFA's available want to come to Calgary as the backup on a rebuilding team?  Out of the possible list

Name_____________ Pos___ Age___ Team___ GP___ MIN___ W___ L___ O___ SO___ GAA___ SV%

Elliott, Brian_________G____ 29_____STL____ 31__ 1,624__ 18__ 6___ 2___ 4____ 1.96__ .922

Johnson, Chad______G____ 27_____BOS____ 27__ 1,511__ 17__ 4___ 3___ 2____ 2.10__ .925

Halak, Jaroslav______G____ 28_____WAS____ 40__ 2,238__ 24__ 9___ 4___ 4____ 2.23__ .917

Greiss, Thomas_____G____ 28_____PHX____ 25__ 1,312__ 10__ 8___ 5___ 2____ 2.29__ .920

Montoya, Al_________G____ 29_____WPG____ 28__ 1,541__ 13__ 8___ 3___ 2____ 2.30__ .920

Hiller, Jonas_________G____ 32_____ANA____ 50__ 2,909__ 29__ 13__ 7___ 5____ 2.48__ .911

Peters, Justin_______G____ 27_____CAR____ 21__ 1,225___7___ 9___ 4___ 1____ 2.50__ .919

Brodeur, Martin______G____ 41_____NJD____ 39__ 2,297__ 19__ 14__ 6___ 3____ 2.51__ .901

MacIntyre, Drew______G____ 30_____TOR____ 2___ 95_____ 0___ 1___ 0___ 0____ 2.53__ .922

Hutton, Carter_______G____ 28_____NAS____ 40__ 2,085__ 20__ 11__ 4___ 1____ 2.62__ .910

Giguere, J._________G____ 36_____COL____ 22__ 1,212__ 11__ 6___ 1___ 2____ 2.62__ .913

Gustavsson, Jonas____G____ 29_____DET____ 27__ 1,551__ 16__ 5___ 4___ 0____ 2.63__ .908

McElhinney, C._______G____ 30_____CLB____ 28__ 1,423__ 10__ 11__ 1___ 2____ 2.70__ .909

Miller, Ryan__________G____ 33_____STL____ 40__ 2,384__ 15__ 22__ 3___ 0____ 2.72__ .924

Nabokov, Evgeni______G____ 38_____NYI____ 40__ 2,254__ 15__ 14__ 8___ 4____ 2.74__ .905

Thomas, Tim_________G____ 40_____DAL____ 40__ 2,299__ 16__ 20__ 3___ 0____ 2.87__ .909

MacDonald, Joey______G____ 34_____CGY____ 11__ 599____ 5___ 4___ 1___ 0____ 2.90__ .890

Emery, Ray__________G____ 31_____PHI____ 28__ 1,398__ 9___ 12__ 2___ 2____ 2.96__ .903

Curry, John__________G____ 30_____MIN____ 2___ 80_____ 1___ 0___ 0___ 0____ 3.00__ .930

Bryzgalov, Ilya_______G____ 33_____MIN____ 20__ 1,135__ 5___ 8___ 5___ 1____ 3.01__ .908

McKenna, Mike_______G____ 31_____CLB____ 4___ 219____ 1___ 1___ 1___ 0____ 3.01__ .904

Clemmensen, Scott___G____ 36_____FLA____ 17__ 914____ 6___ 7___ 1___ 0____ 3.09__ .897

Labarbera, Jason_____G____ 34_____CHI____ 7___ 348____ 1___ 3___ 0___ 0____ 3.28__ .870

Dubnyk, Devan______G____ 27_____MTL____ 32__ 1,678__ 11__ 17__ 2___ 2____ 3.36__ .894

Nilstorp, C.__________G____ 30_____DAL____ 1___ 39_____ 0___ 0___ 0___ 0____ 4.62__ .824

Khabibulin, N.________G____ 41_____CHI____ 4___ 168____ 1___ 0___ 1___ 0____ 5.00__ .811

Desjardins, C._______G____ 28_____TBL____ 1___ 18_____ 0___ 1___ 0___ 0____ 6.67__ .846

Lawson, Nathan______G____ 30_____OTT____ 1___ 12_____ 0___ 0___ 0___ 0____ 10.00_ .800

I would like to see Montoya given an offer.  He's a goalie that can come in and steal games like JMac but with a little more upside and he's quite a bit younger.  Elliot is another guy who can steal games but can also play long stretches should the need arise.  You're obviously scratching Hiller off that list.  He'll be in a different jersey next year is my belief but it won't be the Flaming C.  Other than that I wouldn't be interested in anyone on that list.  Well, maybe Emery but I don't know if his ego would fly with Hartley that's why I'd pass.    I'm interested to see who starts as the Flames backup next year.  Will they re-sign Jmac?  Or go for a coveted UFA?

Edit*: Thought that chart would come out the way it pasted.  My apologies I was copying it from Capgeek.  If anyone can tell me how I can fix this I would appreciate it.

 

[Mod Edit: this is the best I could do for you...sorry :-( ]

[DirtyDeeds]

 If anyone can tell me how I can fix this I would appreciate it.

 

[Mod Edit: this is the best I could do for you...sorry :-( ]

Screenshotting the page and cropping out the stuff you do not need works just as well doesn't it?

 

 

[DirtyDeeds]

As for who, I am of the opinion if you have confidence in you prospects then it does not matter the age of our backup. The backup only needs to be with us for a couple of years until our prospects develop.

 

We already know we are going with our starter as Ramo, and at this stage of our rebuild he is suitable.

[conundrumed]

As for who, I am of the opinion if you have confidence in you prospects then it does not matter the age of our backup. The backup only needs to be with us for a couple of years until our prospects develop.

 

We already know we are going with our starter as Ramo, and at this stage of our rebuild he is suitable.

Isn't it worth upgrading the backup role though? We're an injury away from turmoil, I feel like we're living on the edge with JMac. I feel like Greiss or Montoya would be an upgrade with only a bit more $ for a 2 or 3 year deal. Of the 3 goalies last year, JMac found a way to finish 4th.

Ramo's the starter. But an injury to him or Ortio will impact both our big club and/or AHL club, as it's plain to see Ortio is our #2 as far as starters go.

Having a backup goalie that can clear waivers speaks volumes, no?

Seems like an area we can upgrade cheap without going for the Miller's and Halak's.

[DirtyDeeds]

 

Isn't it worth upgrading the backup role though? We're an injury away from turmoil, I feel like we're living on the edge with JMac. I feel like Greiss or Montoya would be an upgrade with only a bit more $ for a 2 or 3 year deal. Of the 3 goalies last year, JMac found a way to finish 4th.

Ramo's the starter. But an injury to him or Ortio will impact both our big club and/or AHL club, as it's plain to see Ortio is our #2 as far as starters go.

Having a backup goalie that can clear waivers speaks volumes, no?

Seems like an area we can upgrade cheap without going for the Miller's and Halak's.

When JMac backed up Kipper for an extended period, he played well and posted a slightly better than .500 record. I see no reason to believe that he would create the trumoil that you describe.

[conundrumed]

Wh

 

When JMac backed up Kipper for an extended period, he played well and posted a slightly better than .500 record. I see no reason to believe that he would create the trumoil that you describe.

 

Wh

 

When JMac backed up Kipper for an extended period, he played well and posted a slightly better than .500 record. I see no reason to believe that he would create the trumoil that you describe.

I'm really not one to bandy out stats because I think a lot of them have the eau du garbodge, but these one's look pretty noticeable:

MacD : 11GP;  5-4-1; 0 SO; 2.9 GAA; .890 sav% based on a total of 264 shots.

Greiss: 25GP; 10-8-5; 2 SO; 2.29 GAA; .920 s% based on a total of 626 shots.

Montoya:28GP 13-8-3 2 SO; 2.30 GAA; .920 s% based on a total of 737 shots.

I realize these 2 guys get a raise, but they were cheaper than MacD last year. We picked MacD on waivers, all of our prospects are via draft.

Why do we never, ever, seem to want to go after NHL goalies?

I'd really like to see how we treat the G position stray from the past since we no longer have Kipper.

[kehatch]

Macdonald isn't a horrible back up. But most teams have a better option at number 2. The Flames should. Plus Ramo is far from a sure thing.

Let's give ourselves a chance to find our Ben Bishop. A young goalie with potential to play with Ramo gives us that.

[manu11]

I think there are two types of goalies you can get for the backup role via UFA. Veterans or guys that had a bad season and want to stay in the NHL or younger backup goalies that want to play as much as possible. Since we don't have a star nr.1 goalie who gets 60+ starts and probably won't be in a playoff battle, there is a reasonable chance that the backup gets at least 25 starts.

 

Personally, I'd prefer a younger goalie like the mentioned Greiss and Montoya. After going down that list I found another choice, an odd one I might add, that could be somewhat interesting.

How about Devan Dubnyk? He had a bad year this past season, but is one of the younger goalies (soon to be 28 years old) in the UFA market. His numbers in the two seasons before are pretty solid for a guy playing for a bad Oilers team. Also having played 47 out of 82 in 11-12 and 38 out of 48 in the shortended season brings you a guy with starting experience, if Ramo gets injured next season.

He would be a guy, motivated and happy to get a chance to play in the NHL again, after beeing in the minors after the trade deadline.

 

On a side note, it would be nice to have another guy, who was thrown out of Edmonton, suceed here in Calgary.

[conundrumed]

Dubnyk is a giant of a goalie, but it's still about playing the position. Being tall, his rebound control is in doubt, his side to side movement is suspect. Not to mention his 5 hole.

I've gotta go with no on Dubnyk.

He's been around long enough to prove he should stick.

He hasn't done that.

[manu11]

Dubnyk is a giant of a goalie, but it's still about playing the position. Being tall, his rebound control is in doubt, his side to side movement is suspect. Not to mention his 5 hole.

I've gotta go with no on Dubnyk.

He's been around long enough to prove he should stick.

He hasn't done that.

 

Thanks for the insight! To be honest I haven't seen him a lot, so I can't make a judgement on his actual play. I looked up his stats and was a bit surprised, that he had that kind of Savepct in past seasons with an Oiler team that was so bad. And I thought he could be better then that, if he played for a team that knows how to play D.

[Carty]

Thanks for the insight! To be honest I haven't seen him a lot, so I can't make a judgement on his actual play. I looked up his stats and was a bit surprised, that he had that kind of Savepct in past seasons with an Oiler team that was so bad. And I thought he could be better then that, if he played for a team that knows how to play D.

 

Dubnyk has made it a habit to let in far too many soft goals...   His playing has regressed...   and if you look at his stats from this season, he somehow found a way to let even more pucks get by him per game in the 2 games he was in net for the Preds than his average was with the Oilers during the season...

 

 

I would even rather the Flames keep Joey Mac as a backup, so that doesn't say much for my opinion of Dubnyk...

[travel_dude]

Dubnyk has made it a habit to let in far too many soft goals...   His playing has regressed...   and if you look at his stats from this season, he somehow found a way to let even more pucks get by him per game in the 2 games he was in net for the Preds than his average was with the Oilers during the season...

 

 

I would even rather the Flames keep Joey Mac as a backup, so that doesn't say much for my opinion of Dubnyk...

 

I say no to most Oiler cast-offs.  In the case of Dubie, definitely no.  His confidence is shot after playing in front of the Oilers, and I think he may be done.  Not high on JoeyMac, but any reasonable backup signed to a one or two-year deal would be ok.  We do have Ortio almost ready to challenge for starting or 1a/1b in 2015/16, and possibly Gillies a year or two later (2016/17 or 2017/18). 

[DirtyDeeds]

I say no to most Oiler cast-offs.  In the case of Dubie, definitely no.  His confidence is shot after playing in front of the Oilers, and I think he may be done.  Not high on JoeyMac, but any reasonable backup signed to a one or two-year deal would be ok.  We do have Ortio almost ready to challenge for starting or 1a/1b in 2015/16, and possibly Gillies a year or two later (2016/17 or 2017/18). 

this is why JMac will do just fine for us for those 1-2 years until Ortio or Gilles is ready. 

[travel_dude]

this is why JMac will do just fine for us for those 1-2 years until Ortio or Gilles is ready. 

 

Having a backup goalie with a .890 SA% and a 2.9 GAA worries me.  Not that I think we will be a playoff team, but those numbers don't exactly inspire confidence.  Berra is about the same, and we got rid of him.  JoeyMac was also sent to the AHL for the majority of the season, and only came back when they had traded Berra.

[JTech780]

I don't think Joey Mac is good enough to be an AHL goalie let alone an NHL goalie.

Elliot, Gustavsson, Greiss, or Montoya are all significantly better options than Joey Mac, at not a huge increase of cap hit.