Goaltending

[kehatch]

Small sample size. But Berra has been dreadful in Colorado so far.

[travel_dude]

Small sample size. But Berra has been dreadful in Colorado so far.

They needed to see what they had in him.  Allaire will work with him through the offseason.  I still think a 2nd was a great deal for CGY, though.

[Carty]

As an example. one of his faults is Berra tends to panic when handling the puck, and at 27 that is a habit that is hard to break for a goaltender...

[cross16]

As an example. one of his faults is Berra tends to panic when handling the puck, and at 27 that is a habit that is hard to break for a goaltender...

This and bad goals were my problems with Berra and IMO bad goals are the result of concentration lapses not technique. Having problems with concentration lapses and handling the puck are two very very tough problems to fix in a 27 year old goaltender and it's why IMO I don't think Berra is an NHL goalie.

[Kulstad]

During Burke's presser this afternoon, he said Ramo has won the right to be the starter next year, he will figure out JMac's future this summer, and he doesn't want Ortio to be backing up anyone, he wants him to play.

[gsp393]

During Burke's presser this afternoon, he said Ramo has won the right to be the starter next year, he will figure out JMac's future this summer, and he doesn't want Ortio to be backing up anyone, he wants him to play.

Strange he would put it that way and not say ramo earned a solid shot at starting. Ramo did well but competition is important for everyone. For all we know ramo come to training camp out of shape and or ortio blows him out of the water. It obvious if thats the case that everything will change, but i wouldnt mind us trying to sign a backup with potential to push ramo for the starting job on top of holding onto ortio and ramo

[Wreckening]

Strange he would put it that way and not say ramo earned a solid shot at starting. Ramo did well but competition is important for everyone. For all we know ramo come to training camp out of shape and or ortio blows him out of the water. It obvious if thats the case that everything will change, but i wouldnt mind us trying to sign a backup with potential to push ramo for the starting job on top of holding onto ortio and ramo

I don't see Ramo coming back to training camp out of shape.  From my understanding in the Burke presser he and the players had nothing but glowing remarks about Ramo's work ethic in practice and during games.  He wants to play in the NHL and he's not about to blow all that out of the water by any means.  If anything being named the #1 should motivate him further.  Ortio is still at best 2 years away from being able to challenge for a spot with the Flames.  He needs to play, as Burke said, and doing that means playing in the A.  He's just a kid, 22 years old.  Very few goalies of his age become starters in this league.  Very few.

 

So to me, for Brian Burke to come out and make this statement it does not strike me as odd at all.  Burke is not one for false praise or just making blanket statements about players.  Obviously a precedent has been set and Ramo has achieved or over-achieved and has been rewarded accordingly.  Sure he struggled early but lets face it, he wasn't getting many starts.  They wanted to see what they had in Berra.  The second half of the season saw him come into form and on many occasions was the reason the Flames won.  I have no issue with with Burke saying what he said, if anything it's one less distraction for the team.  There is no question mark after the goalie situation with the exception of who's going to back up and I think that's going to be up to MacDonald and whether he wants to re-sign.

[gsp393]

I don't see Ramo coming back to training camp out of shape. From my understanding in the Burke presser he and the players had nothing but glowing remarks about Ramo's work ethic in practice and during games. He wants to play in the NHL and he's not about to blow all that out of the water by any means. If anything being named the #1 should motivate him further. Ortio is still at best 2 years away from being able to challenge for a spot with the Flames. He needs to play, as Burke said, and doing that means playing in the A. He's just a kid, 22 years old. Very few goalies of his age become starters in this league. Very few.

So to me, for Brian Burke to come out and make this statement it does not strike me as odd at all. Burke is not one for false praise or just making blanket statements about players. Obviously a precedent has been set and Ramo has achieved or over-achieved and has been rewarded accordingly. Sure he struggled early but lets face it, he wasn't getting many starts. They wanted to see what they had in Berra. The second half of the season saw him come into form and on many occasions was the reason the Flames won. I have no issue with with Burke saying what he said, if anything it's one less distraction for the team. There is no question mark after the goalie situation with the exception of who's going to back up and I think that's going to be up to MacDonald and whether he wants to re-sign.

I poorly explained my stance. My fear is ramo got hot after his injury and wont be able to sustain anything near what he did the latter part of this year. I guess its probably unlikely for a veteran(used loosely i know) goalie like ramo to get overly comfortable but im skeptical that hes as good as everyone thinks and dont want bb to put his eggs in that basket without seeing what available via free agency or bargain trade. I just hope burke tries to bring in more competition for ramo, and i definatly dont mean mcd (hackdonald).

[kehatch]

I hear you.  I didn't like the constant overselling Feaster provided.  Cervenka was the best player not in the NHL.  Ramo was the best goalie.  Some how so was Berra.  It will be the upset special if Sven doesn't make it.  Guarantees to make the playoffs.  Etc.  

 

But I don't see Burke doing that.  He intentionally tried to talk fans down with the Gaudreau debut for example.  

 

But Ramo just put forward 40 starts with respectable numbers.  He is 27.  He is a seasoned pro and a KHL all star.  I think Burke showing support of Ramo is fine.  I also think he is trying to avoid a goaltending controversy like there was in Toronto.  Every season people were talking about if this was the season that Burke was going to replace Reimer.  It was a bad environment.  And it would have existed here.  I fully expected Burke to go out and get some insurance on Ramo.  I am sure many other fans (and players) thought the same thing.  Now I (and they) don't think that.  

[phoenix66]

I hear you. I didn't like the constant overselling Feaster provided. Cervenka was the best player not in the NHL. Ramo was the best goalie. Some how so was Berra. It will be the upset special if Sven doesn't make it. Guarantees to make the playoffs. Etc.

But I don't see Burke doing that. He intentionally tried to talk fans down with the Gaudreau debut for example.

But Ramo just put forward 40 starts with respectable numbers. He is 27. He is a seasoned pro and a KHL all star. I think Burke showing support of Ramo is fine. I also think he is trying to avoid a goaltending controversy like there was in Toronto. Every season people were talking about if this was the season that Burke was going to replace Reimer. It was a bad environment. And it would have existed here. I fully expected Burke to go out and get some insurance on Ramo. I am sure many other fans (and players) thought the same thing. Now I (and they) don't think that.

On a funny but ironic sidenote. .we all rag on feaster for his "best (insert position here) not in the NHL" comments..but the first time I ever heard that phrase get drummed, was Brian Burke in Toronto during the Jonas Gustaffson sweepstakes. .

[CheersMan]

The Flames had a four goaltender tryout this year.  Ramo emerged as the best goaltender amongst the four.  Burke only said the obvious, Ramo has earned the starting position next year, which I agree with.

Ramo finished the year with a winning record at 2 games above 0.50 plus a 0.911 SV%, which is very respectable for a 27th placed team.  MacDonald at 34 yrs is obviously not our future, as a result he was only given 9 starts in year one of the RB, but he too finished with a winning record.  Combined, these two goaltenders finished with a winning record on a 27th placed team.  IMO our goaltending is in decent hands going into year 2 of a RB.  MacDonald however is a UFA, we’ll have to wait and see how that plays out.

 

Hartley's philosophy is that the hot goaltender plays regardless of the name and number on the back, just like all positions.

[kehatch]

On a funny but ironic sidenote. .we all rag on feaster for his "best (insert position here) not in the NHL" comments..but the first time I ever heard that phrase get drummed, was Brian Burke in Toronto during the Jonas Gustaffson sweepstakes. .

 

I think every GM does it to some extent.  But Burke is better than most in trying to manage expectations.  That extends to the fans, players, management, owners, coaches, etc.  Feaster was on the other side of the spectrum.  He was a salesman.

[s4xon]

I think every GM does it to some extent.  But Burke is better than most in trying to manage expectations.  That extends to the fans, players, management, owners, coaches, etc.  Feaster was on the other side of the spectrum.  He was a salesman.

 

To the fans and the media?  Sure, but certainly not in terms of trying to sell in a deal with other GM's around the league.  He was pretty terrible at that. However, I do feel Feaster used more energy on selling Berra than he did Ramo to the fans.

 

Ramo quietly showcased his skill to Flames fans (and the rest of the NHL for that matter) without the need for a sideshow announcer to boost his ego.  He's a solid contender and certainly earned his stripes as the #1 going forward into next season.

[kehatch]

To the fans and the media? Sure, but certainly not in terms of trying to sell in a deal with other GM's around the league. He was pretty terrible at that. However, I do feel Feaster used more energy on selling Berra than he did Ramo to the fans.

Ramo quietly showcased his skill to Flames fans (and the rest of the NHL for that matter) without the need for a sideshow announcer to boost his ego. He's a solid contender and certainly earned his stripes as the #1 going forward into next season.

Usually Burke speaks with an agenda. My perception of Feaster is he was just trying to tell us how awesome everything was.

Like I said above, showing your commitment to a goalie and preventing a goaltending controversy was the right thing to do IMO and it was the reason for Burke to say those things.

For example, before yesterday there was speculation in the media that Burke was in the running for Reimer. Now the same people are reporting that the Flames are comfortable with Ramo.

[s4xon]

Usually Burke speaks with an agenda. My perception of Feaster is he was just trying to tell us how awesome everything was.

Like I said above, showing your commitment to a goalie and preventing a goaltending controversy was the right thing to do IMO and it was the reason for Burke to say those things.

For example, before yesterday there was speculation in the media that Burke was in the running for Reimer. Now the same people are reporting that the Flames are comfortable with Ramo.

 

I agree, Burke made the right call with Ramo.  He's a very smart cookie, and recognizes how important tempering expectations can be.

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Yeah, I'm sick of hearing those rumors too.  Please for the love of buddha, Burke better not bring Reimer into this club.  I'm not for being in the business of taking on the Leaf's crease issues.

[robrob1974]

I agree, Burke made the right call with Ramo.  He's a very smart cookie, and recognizes how important tempering expectations can be.

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Yeah, I'm sick of hearing those rumors too.  Please for the love of buddha, Burke better not bring Reimer into this club.  I'm not for being in the business of taking on the Leaf's crease issues.

 

 

I don't even know if I want any Leaf player on this team. Not sure who to start with… 

And hopefully we finally win one with them and Colborne turns out to be a gem and improve on this season as his career progresses.

[robrob1974]

I am happy with Ramo and I think he's NHL calibre. At this moment I feel like this is a mute argument. We may need a back-up, but I think they'll re-sign MacD… If not, Reimer isn't the guy I want, not that I dislike him or anything.

 

I like that they're playing Ortio in the AHL to season up and not rush him in. Get both goalies games in and when Ramo's contract is up they can either re-up him and have them duke it out in a few years for the spot. 

For a team who is suppose to be finishing last place, Ramo did a great job in keeping us in 49-50 games (one goal ones). Not that he played in all of them, but he deserves the #1 at this moment. Training camp is a whole different story though.

[kehatch]

I am happy with Ramo and I think he's NHL calibre. At this moment I feel like this is a mute argument. We may need a back-up, but I think they'll re-sign MacD… If not, Reimer isn't the guy I want, not that I dislike him or anything.

 

I like that they're playing Ortio in the AHL to season up and not rush him in. Get both goalies games in and when Ramo's contract is up they can either re-up him and have them duke it out in a few years for the spot. 

For a team who is suppose to be finishing last place, Ramo did a great job in keeping us in 49-50 games (one goal ones). Not that he played in all of them, but he deserves the #1 at this moment. Training camp is a whole different story though.

 

Actually, I think it has been a pretty loud argument at times!

 

I hope they don't sign MacDonald.  He was a sub par goalie in his prime, and he is past his prime.  There are a couple of UFAs I would look at.  Elliot would be a great pick up if he becomes available.  Same with Halak if you can actually get him.  Montoya is another example.  

 

These are young goalies that may or may not be available July 1. I prefer a young veteran goalie because

1. Having some insurance if Ramo falters is a good thing
2. Ramo is probably looking at 45 or 50 starts next season.  We still have another 35 or so starts that are going to need to be covered.  I don't want a guy like MacDonald in net for that.

[travel_dude]

Actually, I think it has been a pretty loud argument at times!

 

I hope they don't sign MacDonald.  He was a sub par goalie in his prime, and he is past his prime.  There are a couple of UFAs I would look at.  Elliot would be a great pick up if he becomes available.  Same with Halak if you can actually get him.  Montoya is another example.  

 

These are young goalies that may or may not be available July 1. I prefer a young veteran goalie because

1. Having some insurance if Ramo falters is a good thing
2. Ramo is probably looking at 45 or 50 starts next season.  We still have another 35 or so starts that are going to need to be covered.  I don't want a guy like MacDonald in net for that.

I think you are correct in thinking that Ramo is good for about 50 starts.  We need a 1b goalie to get us through the season, and in case there is any more injuries.  I thought Berra was going to be that guy, but he never was able to get on a hot streak, nor install any confidence in the team.  After all, he only won something like 1 game in regulation.

 

And no, I don't want to see Reimer.  I also think it may be too soon for Ortio; he is just staring to ripen.  Let him get another 50-60 starts in the AHL next year. 

[cross16]

I think having Ramo start 50 games or so and Ortio taking the rest would be ideale as I think 30 NHL games is just as good as 50 or so in the AHL. Problem I see with that is you have to commit those starts to Ortio and Hartley, as a lot of coaches would, likes to ride his guy so my fear there is Ortio could go stretches of 2 weeks without starting. So even though the number of games would probably work I think it's best to go and get a backup but the tricky thing there is I think ideally you'd only want then on a one year deal because you do have Ortio who isn't going to sit in the AHL forever. A name I have seen yet who I think could fit is Tomas Greiss. He's backed up workhorse goalies, in case Ramo turns into that, and has flashed some potential here and there and would likely come on a pretty reasonable contract and I think the potential for him to play up to 30 games or so beats being in pheonix where you know mike smith is going to play a ton.

[travel_dude]

I think having Ramo start 50 games or so and Ortio taking the rest would be ideale as I think 30 NHL games is just as good as 50 or so in the AHL. Problem I see with that is you have to commit those starts to Ortio and Hartley, as a lot of coaches would, likes to ride his guy so my fear there is Ortio could go stretches of 2 weeks without starting. So even though the number of games would probably work I think it's best to go and get a backup but the tricky thing there is I think ideally you'd only want then on a one year deal because you do have Ortio who isn't going to sit in the AHL forever. A name I have seen yet who I think could fit is Tomas Greiss. He's backed up workhorse goalies, in case Ramo turns into that, and has flashed some potential here and there and would likely come on a pretty reasonable contract and I think the potential for him to play up to 30 games or so beats being in pheonix where you know mike smith is going to play a ton.

What bothered me about Hartley early in the season was him leaning on JMac and then Berra, while Ramo sat for weeks at a time.  If Ramo lost the next start, he would only get one more game to prove he was the go to guy.  You are right that he would probably do the same with Ortio.  I would prefer we ride Ramo until the end of next season, with a capable backup.  Ramo plays hot, he gets a new contract.  Otherwise, we bring up Ortio with a decent 30-40 game backup.  Gillies gets the starter job in the AHL, and eventually becomes Ortio's backup.  

[MAC331]

This is all assuming Ramos stays healthy for the whole year. I prefer Ramos as #1 with a solid back up and Ortio getting steady work in the AHL. Should Ramos get injured I would want to see Ortio come up and play. he definitely showed some real potential while up.

[kehatch]

What bothered me about Hartley early in the season was him leaning on JMac and then Berra, while Ramo sat for weeks at a time.  If Ramo lost the next start, he would only get one more game to prove he was the go to guy.  You are right that he would probably do the same with Ortio.  I would prefer we ride Ramo until the end of next season, with a capable backup.  Ramo plays hot, he gets a new contract.  Otherwise, we bring up Ortio with a decent 30-40 game backup.  Gillies gets the starter job in the AHL, and eventually becomes Ortio's backup.  

 

I never did understand Hartely's love affair with Berra.  It was my biggest frustration early.  He really appears to have his favorites and treated players differently.  That said, whatever he did worked so no harm no foul IMO.  

[CheersMan]

I never did understand Hartely's love affair with Berra.  It was my biggest frustration early.  He really appears to have his favorites and treated players differently.  That said, whatever he did worked so no harm no foul IMO.

Ramo was signed for two years. Berra was to become a UFA at seasons end. The Flames leaned on Berra to learn what they had in him. Hence Berra is gone.

[kehatch]

Ramo was signed for two years. Berra was to become a UFA at seasons end. The Flames leaned on Berra to learn what they had in him. Hence Berra is gone.

 

I doubt it.  The coach is coaching.  Not the GM.  Even if that is the reason, leaving your potential future starter on the bench for close to a month while the other guy isn't playing well is ridiculous.  But its in the past and things turned out.  So like I said, all is good.