Goaltending

[JTech780]

Ortio on the ice at Flames practice this morning and the Heat have signed Thomas Heemskerk to a PTO.

[travel_dude]

Ramo sidelined with MCL injury; no timeline yet, not placed on IR yet.

Ortio called up.

 

I hope he is not subject to waivers if and when he is sent down; 99% sure he isn't.

This should give some idea of what the Flames have in him.  I hope he shows well, since he appears to be a better option than Berra.

If he does, Berra will not be re-signed IMHO.

[dijnn]

Ramo sidelined with MCL injury; no timeline yet, not placed on IR yet.

Ortio called up.

 

I hope he is not subject to waivers if and when he is sent down; 99% sure he isn't.

This should give some idea of what the Flames have in him.  I hope he shows well, since he appears to be a better option than Berra.

If he does, Berra will not be re-signed IMHO.

 

 

Pretty disappointing with Berra you never know what shot he may let in. :/

[DirtyDeeds]

[travel_dude]

Pretty disappointing with Berra you never know what shot he may let in. :/

 

Until he wins a game in regulation, he won't get much confidence from his teammates or the fans.  His record speaks for itself: 

24 games - 7 wins - 14 losses - 2 OTL....Every single win is in extra time or shootout.

 

If we played a goalie with reasonable win/loss record (.500) for those 14 losses, we would actually be in a wild card position.  Not that I blame all those losses on the goalie, but it makes it seem like we were closer to being a playoff team than a bottom 3 team.

[MAC331]

So all the losses are on Berra ? come on be realistic this is an average team at best, next win in this string and you will have them winning the Stanley Cup.

i think both these goalies have played well given all the 1 score losses.

Until he wins a game in regulation, he won't get much confidence from his teammates or the fans.  His record speaks for itself: 

24 games - 7 wins - 14 losses - 2 OTL....Every single win is in extra time or shootout.

 

If we played a goalie with reasonable win/loss record (.500) for those 14 losses, we would actually be in a wild card position.  Not that I blame all those losses on the goalie, but it makes it seem like we were closer to being a playoff team than a bottom 3 team.

[Lucid_Flame91]

So all the losses are on Berra ? come on be realistic this is an average team at best, next win in this string and you will have them winning the Stanley Cup.

i think both these goalies have played well given all the 1 score losses.

 

 

People seem to think we should be in the playoffs with a better goalie. just another 8 game win streak and we'll be right in for a wild card spot. I bet they would love drafting 10-12 aswell.

 

But in all reality, we should draft close to where we are now this year and the next, THEN you will see a playoff team that can hopefully contend on a yearly basis, Instead of sitting 15th~ every year for another decade.

 

I'm glad Ortio is up with the flames right now, If he could get a start and possibly a win, It would be a huge confidence boost for him.

But to keep him here for an extended amount of time would be bad. He needs to be starting, and with a winning team going into the playoffs. 

 

Hopefully Ramo is back soon, but hopefully not too soon, Ortio deserves atleast 1 start but that all depends on Hartley.

[travel_dude]

People seem to think we should be in the playoffs with a better goalie. just another 8 game win streak and we'll be right in for a wild card spot. I bet they would love drafting 10-12 aswell.

 

But in all reality, we should draft close to where we are now this year and the next, THEN you will see a playoff team that can hopefully contend on a yearly basis, Instead of sitting 15th~ every year for another decade.

What I was saying was that right now (as of today), an extra 7 wins would be a wild card spot. If you look at the number of losses charged to Berra and consider the number of his wins that came down to shootout, then you are at below average goaltending.

With a Rask or a Hillier, we are just a bottom seed playoff team.

[Lucid_Flame91]

What I was saying was that right now (as of today), an extra 7 wins would be a wild card spot. If you look at the number of losses charged to Berra and consider the number of his wins that came down to shootout, then you are at below average goaltending.

With a Rask or a Hillier, we are just a bottom seed playoff team.

 

The point is, do we want to be a bottom seed playoff team for a long time just because a goalie can carry us. Its the same crap as with iggy and kipper they could only carry us so far, its gonna end up monahan and xxx as goalie.

 

Were going to achieve nothing in the playoffs, and get nothing in with that draft pick.(who knows we could be blessed and get someone)

 

We cant just look at the standings and the goalies and be "if we had x here instead of berra we would be in the playoffs"

Aiming for the playoffs at this time, and moving pieces to make it happen would set us back farther than most can imagine, Reminds me of what vancouver is going through, they're going to need to retool fast or its the bottom for them aswell here soon.

[robrob1974]

I like that we're winning and trying, but I have to agree with you. I understand that teams like the NYI aren't going anywhere yet constantly draft high, but that's because Snow is a tool. He trades Moulson and more for Vanek and now will probably get less than he gave up, yet could have got more from a deal that involved Moulson. But that kind of management gets you no where… 

 

Now, we, I believe, since our drafting has been elbowing forever needs to be in the top 5 and I say even top 3 because we can be almost guaranteed a decent pick can possibly push the team forward. I am happy we're winning, but I am worried it's at a cost of a top3 pick, and it may just catapult us back to drafting 6th or 7th or something like that if we keep this up. I just don't trust the Flames' scouts yet. It has been too long without that draft win and for the most part, drafting nobodies. 

 

Everyone says, but wait until after the trade deadline as we will get rid of a few players and we'll lose more than we win. We said that last year and we won a lot and I am happy with Monahan, but this year's apparently not a good draft year, so anyone past 5th overall could be a  wash, even though you never know. I'd prefer to draft the players who are closer to a sure thing. 

 

I also don't like the idea of losing on purpose. If you look at each goalie in those 5 wins, I don't think any of them were a starters. Anyway, I don't think we need a goalie right now who is going to hide deficiencies. We'd get blasted in the playoffs, well, maybe we'd win a few.

[travel_dude]

The point is, do we want to be a bottom seed playoff team for a long time just because a goalie can carry us. Its the same crap as with iggy and kipper they could only carry us so far, its gonna end up monahan and xxx as goalie.

 

Were going to achieve nothing in the playoffs, and get nothing in with that draft pick.(who knows we could be blessed and get someone)

 

We cant just look at the standings and the goalies and be "if we had x here instead of berra we would be in the playoffs"

Aiming for the playoffs at this time, and moving pieces to make it happen would set us back farther than most can imagine, Reminds me of what vancouver is going through, they're going to need to retool fast or its the bottom for them aswell here soon.

You are certainly reading a lot into my post. It was all about substandard goaltending. Nowhere did I say we make any trade for a better goalie. That may be Burke's plan, though.

[robrob1974]

The point is, do we want to be a bottom seed playoff team for a long time just because a goalie can carry us. Its the same crap as with iggy and kipper they could only carry us so far, its gonna end up monahan and xxx as goalie.

 

Were going to achieve nothing in the playoffs, and get nothing in with that draft pick.(who knows we could be blessed and get someone)

 

We cant just look at the standings and the goalies and be "if we had x here instead of berra we would be in the playoffs"

Aiming for the playoffs at this time, and moving pieces to make it happen would set us back farther than most can imagine, Reminds me of what vancouver is going through, they're going to need to retool fast or its the bottom for them aswell here soon.

[Lucid_Flame91]

You are certainly reading a lot into my post. It was all about substandard goaltending. Nowhere did I say we make any trade for a better goalie. That may be Burke's plan, though.

 

Eh your's just made me realize, there's others looking at the standings and thinking the same thing, Ive seen others say the same as you did. But luckily we dont have feaster anymore. So I doubt burke would blow up this team for a chance at the playoffs this/next year.

[Heartbreaker]

Eh your's just made me realize, there's others looking at the standings and thinking the same thing, Ive seen others say the same as you did. But luckily we dont have feaster anymore. So I doubt burke would blow up this team for a chance at the playoffs this/next year.

 

That depends on his marching orders. 

 

Love. 

[lordxan]

I like that we're winning and trying, but I have to agree with you. I understand that teams like the NYI aren't going anywhere yet constantly draft high, but that's because Snow is a tool. He trades Moulson and more for Vanek and now will probably get less than he gave up, yet could have got more from a deal that involved Moulson. But that kind of management gets you no where… 

 

Now, we, I believe, since our drafting has been elbowing forever needs to be in the top 5 and I say even top 3 because we can be almost guaranteed a decent pick can possibly push the team forward. I am happy we're winning, but I am worried it's at a cost of a top3 pick, and it may just catapult us back to drafting 6th or 7th or something like that if we keep this up. I just don't trust the Flames' scouts yet. It has been too long without that draft win and for the most part, drafting nobodies. 

 

Everyone says, but wait until after the trade deadline as we will get rid of a few players and we'll lose more than we win. We said that last year and we won a lot and I am happy with Monahan, but this year's apparently not a good draft year, so anyone past 5th overall could be a  wash, even though you never know. I'd prefer to draft the players who are closer to a sure thing. 

 

I also don't like the idea of losing on purpose. If you look at each goalie in those 5 wins, I don't think any of them were a starters. Anyway, I don't think we need a goalie right now who is going to hide deficiencies. We'd get blasted in the playoffs, well, maybe we'd win a few.

OK, in reference to the underlined part:

 

2011 Baertschi

2012 Jankowski

2013 Monahan

2013 Poirier

2013 Klimchuck

 

And those are only the 1st rounders, look at the just past few years what they got out of later rounds:

 

Selioff

W-Spoon

Gaudreau

Gillies

Brodie

 

Now I`m not saying some of the off the chart picks like Poirier and Jankowski were well received by some of the experts and heck even me as a fan was not too sure about them.   However, all the above names are developing VERY well, and all should make very solid NHL caliber players.  It is even quite possible to see 2-3 star level players out of that batch, now keep in mid I said stars not super-stars in the likes of Crosby, Stamkos, etc.  But we are talking the likes of Cammy or Langkow or better which if you have 5 players (all be it in differing roles and skill sets) I think you have a very solid team core just from the 1st round picks alone.  Then add some of our later round picks (not all mentioned above) but those 5 above, should all develop into about the same caliber, as of our d mentioned I see them as a Morris or Regher level which, is just fine by me.

 

No, all and all, stand pat, let our draft team do their job with what we have (unless we get knock our socks off offer), they have established them selves well enough in my books and let us be honest, the current draft team look like gods compared to our early 2000 draft team (Fata, Nystrom (though not too bad now by by no means as good as some in his draft class), kobasew, Krahn, Pelech, Irving etc.)  Between 2000 - 2010 we really only got luck with Phaneuf and Backlund and those were very strong draft years so it was much harder for them to fail.  More over come 2007, the winds of change started with Backlund in term of our draft team, so they were new, learning and still more people being shuffled for a few years there after.

 

Now however, this team is in place for a few years and look at the results just in the past 3 yrs.  I would have to say they have proved their worth.

[DirtyDeeds]

 

So Ramo is out at least until end of the Olympics

[travel_dude]

 

So Ramo is out at least until end of the Olympics

 

Ortio has been better in his AHL starts than Berra was.  Three games before the Olympic break, so we should get Ortio at least once.  Since Berra is starting tonight, it would be good to see Ortio against the Islanders.  If he plays that game well, then play him against the Flyers. 

 

To be honest, I think that Berra was brought up too quickly. 

[robrob1974]

OK, in reference to the underlined part:

 

2011 Baertschi

2012 Jankowski

2013 Monahan

2013 Poirier

2013 Klimchuck

 

And those are only the 1st rounders, look at the just past few years what they got out of later rounds:

 

Selioff

W-Spoon

Gaudreau

Gillies

Brodie

 

Now I`m not saying some of the off the chart picks like Poirier and Jankowski were well received by some of the experts and heck even me as a fan was not too sure about them.   However, all the above names are developing VERY well, and all should make very solid NHL caliber players.  It is even quite possible to see 2-3 star level players out of that batch, now keep in mid I said stars not super-stars in the likes of Crosby, Stamkos, etc.  But we are talking the likes of Cammy or Langkow or better which if you have 5 players (all be it in differing roles and skill sets) I think you have a very solid team core just from the 1st round picks alone.  Then add some of our later round picks (not all mentioned above) but those 5 above, should all develop into about the same caliber, as of our d mentioned I see them as a Morris or Regher level which, is just fine by me.

 

No, all and all, stand pat, let our draft team do their job with what we have (unless we get knock our socks off offer), they have established them selves well enough in my books and let us be honest, the current draft team look like gods compared to our early 2000 draft team (Fata, Nystrom (though not too bad now by by no means as good as some in his draft class), kobasew, Krahn, Pelech, Irving etc.)  Between 2000 - 2010 we really only got luck with Phaneuf and Backlund and those were very strong draft years so it was much harder for them to fail.  More over come 2007, the winds of change started with Backlund in term of our draft team, so they were new, learning and still more people being shuffled for a few years there after.

 

Now however, this team is in place for a few years and look at the results just in the past 3 yrs.  I would have to say they have proved their worth.

To be fair, so far there are 3 who are almost guaranteed NHL players, Baertschi, Monahan, and Brodie. The others still have a lot to prove.

So. What is different about the scout team from the past than it is now? I really don't know who the scouts are, and I think we must have added a few more across the board.

Monahan was the BPA (a no brainer) and Baertschi was a last minutes decision...

[DirtyDeeds]

[Lucid_Flame91]

The heat play 4 games this week, today/tomorrow vs the charlotte checkers and saturday/sunday against the texas stars.

 

From that standpoint i'm kinda sad Ortio is up with the flames (Unless he gets a start and succeeds), with Jmac hurt that was alot of playing time for him this week. But on the flip side we get to see what oliver roy has in his bag of tricks.

 

I just hope Ortio doesnt sit on the bench for the next 3 games with the flames.

[geos]

^ Why? He'll be back down for the Olympic break. Ortio is just getting a taste of the NHL, what it's like to practice in the big time, watch how it all works on the bench. Even if he doesn't play, I think this is a good learning opportunity. It's not like he's sitting there getting fat. He gets most of the practice time and what not as backup. He's playing lots, just not in games, which is fine at this point in his development.

[kehatch]

^ Why? He'll be back down for the Olympic break. Ortio is just getting a taste of the NHL, what it's like to practice in the big time, watch how it all works on the bench. Even if he doesn't play, I think this is a good learning opportunity. It's not like he's sitting there getting fat. He gets most of the practice time and what not as backup. He's playing lots, just not in games, which is fine at this point in his development.

Agreed. Bringing up Ortio for a couple of games has nothing but positives. Good for Ortio and it is good for Roy. Besides they don't have any great alternative with MacDonald hurt. If they signed another goalie to fill in for three games it would have been a slap in the face to Ortio and a waste of a contract.

I would like to see him play a game though. But that might depend on how Berra plays.

[travel_dude]

Agreed. Bringing up Ortio for a couple of games has nothing but positives. Good for Ortio and it is good for Roy. Besides they don't have any great alternative with MacDonald hurt. If they signed another goalie to fill in for three games it would have been a slap in the face to Ortio and a waste of a contract.

I would like to see him play a game though. But that might depend on how Berra plays.

Berra played well, I thought.  At times outstanding.  I know Hartley is trying to get Berra a win to boost his confidence, but Ortio is as important to the Flames as Berra, maybe moreso.  Give Ortio a game now, since Berra is going to the Olympics anyway. 

[Kulstad]

Berra played well, I thought.  At times outstanding.  I know Hartley is trying to get Berra a win to boost his confidence, but Ortio is as important to the Flames as Berra, maybe moreso.  Give Ortio a game now, since Berra is going to the Olympics anyway. 

 

Berra is important now, Ortio is important next year (or year after).

[JTech780]

I am torn, I want to see Ortio play but Berra earned the start in the next game. Hartley has been rolling with the "play well and you get another start" rotation for awhile, do you abandon that now? I think Berra starts tomorrow and he if he plays well again he will get another start.