Fire Feaster!

[tmac70]

They tanked 13 spots this season, whats to be happy about.  So how is it that Montreal finished 27th last year but now  are 4th in the league.

 

Say what you will this is Feasters mess .We were 17th last year and are now 29th, they didnt go on a downward spiral they crashed!! So is this Feaster fault YUP. I would even go as far as the coaching system is Feasters fault  as well, he hired them.

 

Feaster should have done last year what was done this year. I do beleiv evryone now is breathing some fresh air. There is a optimistic and a new excitement about the future, simply truth no one trust Feaster to do it.

 

 

 

 

No one will be happy with anyone brought in, that is a fact with these message boards. Look at Dale Tallon in Florida. Built the Stanley Cup Blackhawks team and is now dead last in the east. You guys don't know what goes into building a winning NHL team so stop pointing the fingers and talking like YOU KNOW. You know what's going on and you know what's right and you know what will make things better! Yea right.

 

Feaster inherited a team that was on a downward trajectory, that had terrible drafting for years and a roster where all the key players were old and had no trade clauses. WTF is he going to do in TWO YEARS?!?!?!

[tachaudh]

You seriously think a hockey GM would move into a job like Ken King? Ken King is essentially a CEO with the flames being just one division in that company. Stamps and Hitmen are other endeavours he keeps track of. Murray Edwards has more fingers in the flames pie than ken king does these days.

 

Just like a lawyer in Feaster who has no actual background in hockey can become General Manager of an NHL team? How about John Weisbrod? He was GM of the Orlando Magic. No background in basketball but worked with the Solar Bears, owned by the Magic. JD isn't just a "hockey GM" either.

 

Putting all that aside, Ken King is nevertheless President of the Calgary Flames and John Davidson would have been a threat to that. JD isn't a patsy and I could never see the two working together. An ensuing power struggle would be inevitable. With respect to all of King's other titles, it doesn't matter. King would never want to reqlinquish his sway over the Flames. As Kissinger said, power is the ultimate aphrodesiac and the only way King loses his position as President of the Flames is if Murray Edwards puts him aside. If you bring someone like JD into the fold, Murray Edwards has that option available. King would never allow that to happen. The only way an offer to JD would have been made is if it was a directive straight from Murray Edwards himself.

[cross16]

As much as i like the idea of King stepping aside as president of the hockey club an making being Presiden CEO of Calgary Flames LTD (not sure if that exists or not just using a name for it) while someone else become President of Flames hockey club i too agree it's not likely to happen. King has that reputation of being a pretty stubborn and "confident" individual so i can't see himself going 'hey i don't think i'm donig a very good job so i'll step aside" type of thing. That would definetly have to come from Edwards but him himself would have to agree to give up a fair bit of apower as wel (assuming all the suggestions of him being an involved owner are true). Given that Edwards has already given Feater a mandate for next year of Oking the stripping down of the team now with a quick rebuild i can't see that move coming anytime soon.It's dissapointg because as much as i am not a Feater fan i do think he got brought into a pretty bad environment. I'd really like to think that at the end of the eason when the ownership group meets to discuss the season and what "went wrong" that they would look at the fact that this downward trend of the last 5 seasons or so has included 3 head coaches, 2 GMs but yet 1 president and look at that VERy closely. Again, not likely but I'd like to hope.

 

I do think Feaster was brough in under less than stellar circumstances, and i do fault the ownership group for that, but that doesn't mean i absolve him of what has been done. I'm normally a guy that understands that Gms need a good 3-5 years to truly build a team and an organization in their identity it does not happen over night, which is in fact why i was never a Feaster fan in the first place. the more he made that team in Tampa in his identity the more their results wen south, not north and so far i see no reason to believe that the Flames are not on that path. I think the only thing saving Feaster right now is that he has Weisbrod running his draft and the results have been fairly promising so far becuase i think his on ice moves are very unspectacular. i don't blame him soley for the last few years and that's not why I am in the fire Feaster camp. i'm in that camp becuase I enver wanted him in the first place and he has done nothing to change my opinion of him that he is not a NHL calibre GM.

[The_People1]

Given that Edwards has already given Feater a mandate for next year of Oking the stripping down of the team now with a quick rebuild i can't see that move coming anytime soon.It's dissapointg because as much as i am not a Feater fan i do think he got brought into a pretty bad environment. I'd really like to think that at the end of the eason when the ownership group meets to discuss the season and what "went wrong" that they would look at the fact that this downward trend of the last 5 seasons or so has included 3 head coaches, 2 GMs but yet 1 president and look at that VERy closely. Again, not likely but I'd like to hope.

 

I think when Edwards came out and said he "expects" the Flames to make the playoffs next season, it's both to sell tickets, and to setup Feaster for failure.  Who in their right mind can turn this ship around in one off-season?  Feaster almost definitely not going to get the job done.  Which means Edwards can come in as the hero and fire Feaster.

[MAC331]

You guys do know that most hockey guys aren't that business savy or smart, right ? Did having the Sutters here not teach us anything ?

[CastleMania]

It's funny how cyclical the fans on this forum are. "Get a hockey man!" you all scream. How quickly you forget what the last "hockey man," Dutter, did to this team in the last couple seasons he was at the helm. It's not about a "hockey man," or about a "business man," it's about getting the right man. If you get a team of people who work effectively together, that's great. If you get one guy who is brilliant in all aspects of being a GM, that's great as well. Many different methods work, it's just about finding the right people.

[DirtyDeeds]

It's funny how cyclical the fans on this forum are. "Get a hockey man!" you all scream. How quickly you forget what the last "hockey man," Dutter, did to this team in the last couple seasons he was at the helm. It's not about a "hockey man," or about a "business man," it's about getting the right man. If you get a team of people who work effectively together, that's great. If you get one guy who is brilliant in all aspects of being a GM, that's great as well. Many different methods work, it's just about finding the right people.

And that same hockey man you are dissing "Dutter" has gone on to win a Cup. Guess he wasn't so inept as you are trying to make him out to be, despite his difficulties late while here.

 

My suggestion was to get John Davidson when he was avaiable. Have you got a problem with him too? Hockey guy who left the Blues due to budget cutbacks. Have the Blues shown signs of mismanagement now from all his work? How about the Blue Jackets are they still wandering in the desert since he joined them?

 

Why do you want to paint all "hockey men" with the same "inept doesn't matter" brush, based on Dutters last couple of years here?

[LCP_STEVIEG]

And that same hockey man you are dissing "Dutter" has gone on to win a Cup. Guess he wasn't so inept as you are trying to make him out to be, despite his difficulties late while here.

 

My suggestion was to get John Davidson when he was avaiable. Have you got a problem with him too? Hockey guy who left the Blues due to budget cutbacks. Have the Blues shown signs of mismanagement now from all his work? How about the Blue Jackets are they still wandering in the desert since he joined them?

 

Why do you want to paint all "hockey men" with the same "inept doesn't matter" brush, based on Dutters last couple of years here?

 

To be fair, Dutter won the cup as a coach. He didn't have anything to do with building the L.A Kings.

[geos]

Darryl Sutter never won a cup as a GM. Nor do I think he has any ability to do so.

[CastleMania]

And that same hockey man you are dissing "Dutter" has gone on to win a Cup. Guess he wasn't so inept as you are trying to make him out to be, despite his difficulties late while here.

 

My suggestion was to get John Davidson when he was avaiable. Have you got a problem with him too? Hockey guy who left the Blues due to budget cutbacks. Have the Blues shown signs of mismanagement now from all his work? How about the Blue Jackets are they still wandering in the desert since he joined them?

 

Why do you want to paint all "hockey men" with the same "inept doesn't matter" brush, based on Dutters last couple of years here?

You're so off base with the way you characterized my statements it's laughable. I never said hockey men don't matter. I never said Dutter was inept as a coach. And I never said all "hockey men" should be painted with the same brush. If you re-read my statements, all I said was that a "hockey man" as GM isn't necessarily the answer. It could be--provided you get the right guy. But you can also build a team that isn't headed by a hockey man that can be just as effective.

[DirtyDeeds]

Darryl Sutter never won a cup as a GM. Nor do I think he has any ability to do so.

Totally missed my point. I wasn't asking for Dutter back.

[TrippinVdUb]

Hockey man, Lawyer, clown, guy who scalps tickets outside the games...... None of that matters, what is important is the intellagence behind the person running the show, does he surround himself with the right people? does he ask the right questions and welcome input from those will valued opinions? say what you want about Featser but the guy has done a great job at building a solid managment group, IMO Weisbrough has been the best move he has made since joining the flames, I thought bringing in Conroy was a good idea as well. This isnt like the Sutter era, this team is lead by commitee. Its a group of people with all diffenet types of backgrounds each able to bring a differnet perspcetive to the table. 

[DirtyDeeds]

You're so off base with the way you characterized my statements it's laughable. I never said hockey men don't matter. I never said Dutter was inept as a coach. And I never said all "hockey men" should be painted with the same brush. If you re-read my statements, all I said was that a "hockey man" as GM isn't necessarily the answer. It could be--provided you get the right guy. But you can also build a team that isn't headed by a hockey man that can be just as effective.

You were the one who said.

 

It's funny how cyclical the fans on this forum are. "Get a hockey man!" you all scream. How quickly you forget what the last "hockey man," Dutter, did to this team in the last couple seasons he was at the helm.

How is that not dissing "all hockey guys" based on what you feel Dutter did while with the Flames?

 

I can see how you went on to say pick the best person available reguardless of hockey background but you sure as hell didn't say that in your opening statement.

 

Anyway I don't want to argue the get a hockey guy debate any farther than my suggestion of attempting to get one if we can. I am in the I am not totally sure Feaster is the right guy for our rebuild group.

[iamcdn34]

You were the one who said.

 

How is that not dissing "all hockey guys" based on what you feel Dutter did while with the Flames?

 

I can see how you went on to say pick the best person available reguardless of hockey background but you sure as hell didn't say that in your opening statement.

 

Anyway I don't want to argue the get a hockey guy debate any farther than my suggestion of attempting to get one if we can. I am in the I am not totally sure Feaster is the right guy for our rebuild group.

 

 

   Well with regards to Feaster and the rebuild, I am sure he is not the only one involved in talks about drafts, free agents and signings of current players on the roster. we do have to remember a Mr. Connroy is a special advisor or whatever he is and he is a hockey guy??

[DirtyDeeds]

   Well with regards to Feaster and the rebuild, I am sure he is not the only one involved in talks about drafts, free agents and signings of current players on the roster. we do have to remember a Mr. Connroy is a special advisor or whatever he is and he is a hockey guy??

Have you ever heard Craig Conroy say anything negative about anyone? ever? I sure haven't.

[ScottMacMahon]

Have you ever heard Craig Conroy say anything negative about anyone? ever? I sure haven't.

 

Im sure what he says to the media is alot different to what he says in internal operations...

[cross16]

It was actually Craig Conroy who after the flames traded Regehr who had a bit of a back and forth with Erixon's agent and mocked him for "knowing more about the Flames depth chart and plans than they did".

 

I agree with Castle's point that it's not just about a hockey guy but the right guy but mfor me the right guy is someone who is a hockey guy and a guy that has spent his career in the game which is one of the many reasons why i never wanted Feaster to run this team. I agree with his mentality of being a "manager" and have a group dynamics but i think ultimately 1 person should have the final say and that person having the final say in my mind needs to have that hockey background of either playing the game or spending his career in it. I know Feaster has splent plenty of time in hockey but not enough when you compare it to others who work in the business. i think when you have been tehre and done that in hockey it puts you in a better state of mind to make those decision and understand them. For me, i think Feaster taking this team and turning it into one of the smallest in the NHL shows me he lacks that long history in hockey to understand how you build a team overtime and I think he gets swayed too easily by how things went in Tampa.

 

And Honestly i think people need to give Darryl sutter a break. No one was more vocal about needed a new Gm at the time than me, but let's also remember that Sutter did bring this club from essentially the ashes to a playoff run and 5 straight playoff seasons. yes he made a series of very questionabl and bad choices, but to say overal he wasn't a success is just wrong IMO and certainly not an example to questions whether or not a "hockey guy" should run the club. even knowing what we know right now, i would say the flames should hire Darryl sutter when they did 10 time out of 10 when you asked and at the time i don't think there was a better person to run the club.

[redfire11]

 I hope Feaster is a type that learns from his mistakes. He nearly cost the Flames HUGE with the OReilly fiasco but he didnt.

He also made a mistake in drafting with our #1 in 2012 Mark Jankowski but I thought he performed well on the the other picks. His latest trades were needed and I felt in this tight market he still could have got a bit more for iggy and bom , but he still did get us some 1st rnders in a decent draft and opened up cap space for next year when quite a few teams will be dumping payrolls. His true colors will show draft day and hopefully he has learned from his mistake from last draft and redeams himself in my eyes this draft. I am behind Feaster for now.

[ScottMacMahon]

 I hope Feaster is a type that learns from his mistakes. He nearly cost the Flames HUGE with the OReilly fiasco but he didnt.

 

^Hypothetically. No one knows for sure how that would have played out.

 

He also made a mistake in drafting with our #1 in 2012 Mark Jankowski

 

How do you know that? We have no idea how good Mark Jankowski will turn out to be.

 

but I thought he performed well on the the other picks. His latest trades were needed and I felt in this tight market he still could have got a bit more for iggy and bom , but he still did get us some 1st rnders in a decent draft and opened up cap space for next year when quite a few teams will be dumping payrolls. His true colors will show draft day and hopefully he has learned from his mistake from last draft and redeams himself in my eyes this draft. I am behind Feaster for now.

 

I can agree with most of that

[redfire11]

^Hypothetically. No one knows for sure how that would have played out.

THe Globe and Mail

At issue is Article 13.23 of the collective bargaining agreement, which states that a professional or former professional player that played in a league outside North America after the start of the NHL regular season must clear waivers before playing in the NHL that same season.

An amendment to that article was made in the latest agreement, allowing teams re-signing their own restricted free agents to avoid the waiver process, which means Colorado won’t risk losing O’Reilly by matching the offer sheet.

There doesn’t appear to be any protection for a team signing a free agent from another club, but Feaster said in the statement that the Flames’ interpretation of Article 13.23 “was, and continues to be, different than the NHL’s current interpretation.”

He also said that the prospect of losing two high draft picks as well as O’Reilly himself is now a moot point since Colorado matched the offer sheet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do you know that? We have no idea how good Mark Jankowski will turn out to be.

 

2013 stats with the 3 centers stats picked after MJ

 

Mark Jankowski

21st cgy

 

2012-13

Providence College

H-East

34

7

11

18

Brendan Gaunce

26th van 2012-13 Belleville Bulls OHL 60 33 27 60

Henrik Samuelsson

27th phx 2012-13 Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 69 33 47 80

 

Stefan Matteau

 

29th njd 2012-13 Blainville-Boisbriand Armada QMJHL 35 18 10 28 2012-13

New Jersey Devils* NHL 17 1 2 3

 

 

 

 

 

I can agree with most of that

Like I said for now I am supporting Feaster in the roll as the Flames GM. (not sure if I would hire him as a lawyer though)

 

The Flames interpretation of Article 13.23 could have cost us a 1st and 3rd rnd draft and ultimately Oreilly.

 

Look at the stats for the 3 centers taken after Mark J in last years draft. (could have drafted him in rnd 2 or 3)Consolation is MJ is 2 years younger than his teammates but still is 5th down the list for points on his team.

 

These are glarring mistakes made by NOT (doing proper research) and acting without having proven facts.

[Young_Guns_V2]

And that same hockey man you are dissing "Dutter" has gone on to win a Cup. Guess he wasn't so inept as you are trying to make him out to be, despite his difficulties late while here.

 

My suggestion was to get John Davidson when he was avaiable. Have you got a problem with him too? Hockey guy who left the Blues due to budget cutbacks. Have the Blues shown signs of mismanagement now from all his work? How about the Blue Jackets are they still wandering in the desert since he joined them?

 

Why do you want to paint all "hockey men" with the same "inept doesn't matter" brush, based on Dutters last couple of years here?

Dutter was a great coach but as a GM not so good....

[spafybox]

It's not an easy job being the GM of an NHL team

I believe Feaster made some good,some questionable, and some decent moves as a GM.

The Jankowski draft move last year was a questionable one and so was the Ryan Oreily fiasco.

The Modin trade for 7th round pick was bad too

I like the guys we got in the Iggy and Bou trades as well as the first round pics with a possibility of 3 pics they coming draft.

Feaster cleared up tons of cap space,has brought in Hudler and Wideman and 2 of the Top goalies in Europe

[csardinha]

2013 stats with the 3 centers stats picked after MJ

 

Mark Jankowski

21st cgy

 

2012-13

Providence College

H-East

34

7

11

18

Brendan Gaunce

26th van 2012-13 Belleville Bulls OHL 60 33 27 60

Henrik Samuelsson

27th phx 2012-13 Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 69 33 47 80

 

Stefan Matteau

 

29th njd 2012-13 Blainville-Boisbriand Armada QMJHL 35 18 10 28 2012-13

New Jersey Devils* NHL 17 1 2 3

 

This post to me is pointless. Every single player you compared against plays in a different league, so really comparing statistics is useless. Look at players in the same league and ill go with what you say, but we really don't know how jankowski would have done in the WHL on a stacked Oil kings team, or in the OHL, or in the QMJHL. Hes in the NCAA, playing on a team with a goalie who wins them games. Im pretty sure he also plays a limited role on that team. Im not saying he is our saviour, his numbers do seem underwhelming, but maybe compare his numbers to players who actually plays in the NCAA, so we can get a better comparison.

Anyway, I understand that his numbers are low, but he is very young, made a huge transition in terms of player skill level that hes playing against, and probably played a lesser role on his team. Id save give him at least two more years and we may be pleasantly surprised. We all knew that this would be a long term project anyway. I personally cant wait to see what he turns into

[Tirosho]

This post to me is pointless. Every single player you compared against plays in a different league, so really comparing statistics is useless. Look at players in the same league and ill go with what you say, but we really don't know how jankowski would have done in the WHL on a stacked Oil kings team, or in the OHL, or in the QMJHL. Hes in the NCAA, playing on a team with a goalie who wins them games. Im pretty sure he also plays a limited role on that team. Im not saying he is our saviour, his numbers do seem underwhelming, but maybe compare his numbers to players who actually plays in the NCAA, so we can get a better comparison.

Anyway, I understand that his numbers are low, but he is very young, made a huge transition in terms of player skill level that hes playing against, and probably played a lesser role on his team. Id save give him at least two more years and we may be pleasantly surprised. We all knew that this would be a long term project anyway. I personally cant wait to see what he turns into

 

Something else to be added, he also missed 4 games this year with an injury (I believe it was a hip injury). For a rookie, 18 points in 34 games is decent in the NCAA.

[ScottMacMahon]

THe Globe and Mail

At issue is Article 13.23 of the collective bargaining agreement, which states that a professional or former professional player that played in a league outside North America after the start of the NHL regular season must clear waivers before playing in the NHL that same season.

 

An amendment to that article was made in the latest agreement, allowing teams re-signing their own restricted free agents to avoid the waiver process, which means Colorado won’t risk losing O’Reilly by matching the offer sheet.

 

There doesn’t appear to be any protection for a team signing a free agent from another club, but Feaster said in the statement that the Flames’ interpretation of Article 13.23 “was, and continues to be, different than the NHL’s current interpretation.”

 

He also said that the prospect of losing two high draft picks as well as O’Reilly himself is now a moot point since Colorado matched the offer sheet.

 

OOOOOH, cause the Globe and Mail is the official authority on hockey, right?

FACT: SEVERAL other GMs also submitted offer sheets to ROR.

FACT: ROR, His agent, AND the flames along with SEVERAL other teams misinterpreted this.

FACT: The Colorado Avalanche didn't even catch this, and it could have been a gold mine for them.

 

Do you really think the league would have let the flames look this idiotic and piss off their fanbase and their players this much given the lockout that just occurred? That would have been terrible for business. No one knows how it would have played out, but my guess is that we would have got ROR and they would have gotten our picks.

 

It would have been a toss up and could have gone either way. YOU have NO idea what would have happened, so their is no use condemning Feaster for it.

 

2013 stats with the 3 centers stats picked after MJ

 

Mark Jankowski

21st cgy - NCAA - Providence College

34 GP - 7 G - 11 A - 18 P

 

Brendan Gaunce

26th van - OHL - Belleville Bulls 

60 GP - 33 G - 27 A - 60 P

 

Henrik Samuelsson

27th phx - WHL - Edmonton Oil Kings 

69 GP - 33 G - 47 A - 80 P

 

Stefan Matteau

29th njd - QMJHL - Blainville-Boisbriand Armada 

35 GP - 18 G - 10 A - 28 P

 

Okay. Instead of looking at it how you are, with glaring mistakes (different leagues, different ages, etc...) lets even the scales a little bit, shall we? Jankowski is 18 years old. So wouldn't it be fair to compare him to those players when they were 18?

 

Henrik Samuellson plays on a stacked oils king team. The OHL is an easier league then the NCAA. However, when he was 18 these were his point totals:

43 GP - 25 P

This is around a 0.5 ppg pace. The same as Janko had this year, at the same age, in a tougher league.

 

Stefan Matteau played in the USHL when he was 18 (same age as Janko). These are his points totals:

18 GP - 10 P

Again, this is around a 0.5 ppg pace. The same as Janko had this year, at the same age. Im not familiar with the toughness of the USHL so I won't comment on that. 

 

Brendan Gaunce played in the OHL (a significantly easier league then the NCAA). And his point totals when he was 18 were:

68 GP - 68 P. 

I won't lie, those are pretty good numbers. Thats 1.0 ppg pace, which is alot better then jankos. HOWEVER, this is in a MUCH easier league. Another thing to consider? Gaunce was only a PLUS FOUR on the year. Thats playing in front of one of the best goalies in the OHL - Malcolm Subban. The year before that? He was a  MINUS THIRTY ONE. Thats right. -31. That shows GLARING deficiencies in his defensive game.

 

Jankowski, in his rookie year, dealing with an injury, at only 18 years of age, in a MUCH tougher league put up 18 points in 34 games, in a lesser role on a defensive, underwhelming team. He was also an even plus minus. Thats pretty good IMO. We knew this kid was a long term project when we got him. There is no use writing him off as a failure now - let the kid prove what he's got. Have you even seen any of his highlights? The kid has great hands, is big, can skate well, and has fantastic hockey sense. Check out these videos:

 

Fantastic passing play.

 

Filthy assist: