Heat Moving?

[s4xon]

One location that is never mentioned is Calgary! I am not sure if there is any reason why the Heat can't replace the Hitmen. It would super convenient for call ups and they would be guaranteed lots of support. There is probably something glaringly obvious I am missing but it sounds perfect to me.

 

The Calgary Hitmen are an established WHL team.  Why would they tear down an established franchise for the Heat which is an AHL team?  Plus the Flames owns both.

[ucwm]

How bout move them to Calgary.  Flames get a new arena to play in down the road so the heat could play in the Dome. 

 

I think they should build an arena in Airdrie and move the farm team there.

[geos]

No way does the Dome stand if a new arena is built. Can't be supported, an AHL team can't justify a 17,000+ seat arena with no secondary events.

[PokernHockey]

One location that is never mentioned is Calgary! I am not sure if there is any reason why the Heat can't replace the Hitmen. It would super convenient for call ups and they would be guaranteed lots of support. There is probably something glaringly obvious I am missing but it sounds perfect to me.

 

How bout move them to Calgary.  Flames get a new arena to play in down the road so the heat could play in the Dome. 

The only team [to my knowledge] that hosts their own farm team in the same city is Toronto.  This year the Marlies are 9th in league attendance.  If a huge, hockey mad city with one of the most devoted fan basis can only attract 6600 fans a night it is unlikely that Calgary, which is much smaller, and already has a WHL team and a NHL team could support all three. (Toronto does not have an OHL team - although there are teams within a short drive outside of the City).

the Hitman and Flames, while they compete, due to the price difference are targeted to different demographics.  The Heat and Hitman would likely directly compete due to price so ticket sales to one would likely cannibalize the other to an extremely high degree.  Both the AHL and WHL position their product as a variation of "see tomorrows stars today.  bring your family without breaking the bank."

I think Lethbridge or Red Deer is likely the closest you could be without directly cannibalizing Flames/Hitman sales, although I doubt either are large enough to support both a WHL team and an AHL team so you likely run into the same problem as you would with the Hitman - although since Calgary doesn't own either of those WHL teams it would affect them less. Your also not likely to get as good of a deal from those cities as they currently have/could get in other markets that don't currently have a professional or Jr team.

Abbotsford is a short flight away, and the arguments of having them in Calgary and Abbotsford is basically the same (but even less travel to get to the big club - who cares. it is a 2 hour flight and half the time they would be called up while the flames are on the road so they would be traveling to get their anyway).  However Calgary does not solve the problem with being in Abbotsford (lots of travel to games) while also likely creating the new problem of hurting the organization financially.  IMO if they move from Abbostford it should be because they decide that the travel issue needs to be addressed which would take them east.

[The_People1]

The only team [to my knowledge] that hosts their own farm team in the same city is Toronto.  This year the Marlies are 9th in league attendance.  If a huge, hockey mad city with one of the most devoted fan basis can only attract 6600 fans a night it is unlikely that Calgary, which is much smaller, and already has a WHL team and a NHL team could support all three. (Toronto does not have an OHL team - although there are teams within a short drive outside of the City).

the Hitman and Flames, while they compete, due to the price difference are targeted to different demographics.  The Heat and Hitman would likely directly compete due to price so ticket sales to one would likely cannibalize the other to an extremely high degree.  Both the AHL and WHL position their product as a variation of "see tomorrows stars today.  bring your family without breaking the bank."

I think Lethbridge or Red Deer is likely the closest you could be without directly cannibalizing Flames/Hitman sales, although I doubt either are large enough to support both a WHL team and an AHL team so you likely run into the same problem as you would with the Hitman - although since Calgary doesn't own either of those WHL teams it would affect them less. Your also not likely to get as good of a deal from those cities as they currently have/could get in other markets that don't currently have a professional or Jr team.

Abbotsford is a short flight away, and the arguments of having them in Calgary and Abbotsford is basically the same (but even less travel to get to the big club - who cares. it is a 2 hour flight and half the time they would be called up while the flames are on the road so they would be traveling to get their anyway).  However Calgary does not solve the problem with being in Abbotsford (lots of travel to games) while also likely creating the new problem of hurting the organization financially.  IMO if they move from Abbostford it should be because they decide that the travel issue needs to be addressed which would take them east.

 

I really think Airdrie is a good location.  It's close to Calgary's International Airport.  It's 15-minute drive North of Calgary so Flames fans in Calgary can go cheer on the Baby Flames when the Flames are out of town.  The community itself is thriving with 42,000+ living there and numerous new communities being built (Abbotsford has 170,000 metro).  But if you consider Calgary's northern communities like Panorama, Skyview Ranch, etc., then the potential market is much bigger.

 

They need to build an arena that can seat about 7,000 and they should be good (Abbotsford arena seats 7,000).  Lots of Calgarians will drive up there to watch games and bring in added revenue to Airdrie.  Build it just North of CrossIron Mills.

[cannedice99]

I really don't think Airdrie is viable.  This exact situation here in BC occured whent he Heat moved in.  There was a massive shuffle of teams in 3 different leagues.  I'll state it in point form (easier for me):

 

- Heat begin play.  Chilliwack Bruins (WHL) experience declining season ticket sales.

- Bruins move after +/-2 years to Victoria and become the Royals (WHL).

- Victoria Salmon Kings (ECHL) fold up their tents to allow the Royals in.

- Langley Chiefs (BCHL) are renamed the Rivermen so the Quesnel Millionaires (BCHL) can move to Chilliwack and keep the Chiefs name.

 

I see this affecting not only the Hitmen, but also the Red Deer Rebels, and numerous other AJHL franchises.

[DirtyDeeds]

I really think Airdrie is a good location.  It's close to Calgary's International Airport.  It's 15-minute drive North of Calgary so Flames fans in Calgary can go cheer on the Baby Flames when the Flames are out of town.  The community itself is thriving with 42,000+ living there and numerous new communities being built (Abbotsford has 170,000 metro).  But if you consider Calgary's northern communities like Panorama, Skyview Ranch, etc., then the potential market is much bigger.

 

They need to build an arena that can seat about 7,000 and they should be good (Abbotsford arena seats 7,000).  Lots of Calgarians will drive up there to watch games and bring in added revenue to Airdrie.  Build it just North of CrossIron Mills.

So do you really think that having the Flames now build 2 arenas in the Greater Calgary area is a good idea just to accomodate the Vancouver Canucks farm team?

 

Why should we help them so they can get the benefit of having a closer farm team when we went through all the trouble of setting up that package for us?

 

You can pretty much bet your house that Abbosford went to Vancouver first and got blow away before approaching us to put in a tenant hockey club.

[The_People1]

I really don't think Airdrie is viable.  This exact situation here in BC occured whent he Heat moved in.  There was a massive shuffle of teams in 3 different leagues.  I'll state it in point form (easier for me):

 

- Heat begin play.  Chilliwack Bruins (WHL) experience declining season ticket sales.

- Bruins move after +/-2 years to Victoria and become the Royals (WHL).

- Victoria Salmon Kings (ECHL) fold up their tents to allow the Royals in.

- Langley Chiefs (BCHL) are renamed the Rivermen so the Quesnel Millionaires (BCHL) can move to Chilliwack and keep the Chiefs name.

 

I see this affecting not only the Hitmen, but also the Red Deer Rebels, and numerous other AJHL franchises.

 

The pros outweigh the cons, like for example, calling a player up to the parent club is literally a phone call away and the player drives to the Saddledome instead of Airdrie.  Plus, the further East a team can be, the cheaper the travel costs.

So do you really think that having the Flames now build 2 arenas in the Greater Calgary area is a good idea just to accomodate the Vancouver Canucks farm team?

 

Why should we help them so they can get the benefit of having a closer farm team when we went through all the trouble of setting up that package for us?

 

You can pretty much bet your house that Abbosford went to Vancouver first and got blow away before approaching us to put in a tenant hockey club.

 

What does this have to do with the Vancouver Canucks farm team?

[DirtyDeeds]

The pros outweigh the cons, like for example, calling a player up to the parent club is literally a phone call away and the player drives to the Saddledome instead of Airdrie.  Plus, the further East a team can be, the cheaper the travel costs.

 

What does this have to do with the Vancouver Canucks farm team?

The only way that the Heat would move here, is if the Canucks wanted the Abbostford arena for their farm team and wanted to offer incentive for the Heat to move out.

 

Edit: On a side note the farm(Abbostford) is all of a 90 minute flight from Calgary now. Hardly a game changing difference from the 30 minute drive from Airdrie to the Dome.

 

We have a fairly lengthy contract now and this whole thread is talking that the reason the Heat might be moving is because the Canucks might be looking to move their farm team in to Abbostford.

 

http://thecanuckway.com/2013/03/30/where-can-the-vancouver-canucks-place-their-farm-team/

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/move-in-the-works-canucks-purchase-ahl-s-rivermen-1.1219772

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/01/ex-ahl-peoria-owner-blasts-blues-over-selling-club-calls-move-disgusting/

http://thecanuckway.com/2013/03/18/report-vancouver-canucks-farm-team-will-be-in-abbotsford-next-season/

http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/sports/Heat+talk+still+topic/8182322/story.html

http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/news/Canucks+prospects+might+have+home+Abbotsford/8133956/story.html

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Canucks+Growing+interest+Abbotsford+farm+team/8014738/story.html

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1522346526/Potential-clubs-to-restore-AHL-franchise-in-Peoria-but-situation-is-fluid

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Canucks+farm+team+antsy+about+team+future+with+club/8014111/story.html

[The_People1]

The only way that the Haat would move here, is if the Canucks wanted the Abbostford arena for their farm team and wanted to offer incentive for the Heat to move out.

 

We have a fairly lengthy contract now and this whole thread is talking that the reason the Heat might be moving is because the Canucks might be looking to move their farm team in to Abbostford.

 

http://thecanuckway.com/2013/03/30/where-can-the-vancouver-canucks-place-their-farm-team/

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/move-in-the-works-canucks-purchase-ahl-s-rivermen-1.1219772

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/01/ex-ahl-peoria-owner-blasts-blues-over-selling-club-calls-move-disgusting/

http://thecanuckway.com/2013/03/18/report-vancouver-canucks-farm-team-will-be-in-abbotsford-next-season/

http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/sports/Heat+talk+still+topic/8182322/story.html

http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/news/Canucks+prospects+might+have+home+Abbotsford/8133956/story.html

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Canucks+Growing+interest+Abbotsford+farm+team/8014738/story.html

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1522346526/Potential-clubs-to-restore-AHL-franchise-in-Peoria-but-situation-is-fluid

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Canucks+farm+team+antsy+about+team+future+with+club/8014111/story.html

 

I was just coming from the perspective that a move to Airdrie would benefit the Flames, irrelevant of whether the Canucks benefit too.

[cannedice99]

All I see from the above links is rumours.  But here's a fact;  the Heat will not be moving this year.

 

http://t.co/5rIvN0lM7A

[crazyhockeyguy]

If they move the Heat anywhere they should put them in Saskatoon close proximity and a good hockey market wanting a Pro team.

[cross16]

I think if, or what sounds like when at this point, the Flames move their AHL team I think their proximity to Calgary won't be highest on the list in terms of locations. I've heard Ken King talk about this but the travel in Abbotsford is horrendous and it sound like they are starting to become pretty concerned about just how much travel is involved and its even limiting their practice time. I think location and travel would be really important in deciding that and for me that would likely mean a team located in the States.

[jjgallow]

I wonder if Seattle will get an AHL team....maybe the Heat, or the Oilers?

[cannedice99]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/calgary-flames/Vancouver+Canucks+still+looking+American/8379506/story.html

 

Basically the Canucks have 30 days to find a home for the Peoria Rivermen for next year.  Since Abby's out of the question, maybe Seattle could fill in.  I personally think it's high time the AHL moves more West.

[robrob74]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/calgary-flames/Vancouver+Canucks+still+looking+American/8379506/story.html

 

Basically the Canucks have 30 days to find a home for the Peoria Rivermen for next year.  Since Abby's out of the question, maybe Seattle could fill in.  I personally think it's high time the AHL moves more West.

 

 

Yup,

 

It had the radio broadcasters on the Team 1040 last week questioning Gillis' ability to manage the club. It adds to his screw-ups with the Luongo situation, the inability to acquire a replacement for Malholtra and his inability to shore up secondary scoring for a team unable to score goals.

 

I also think the way the organization handled the Hodgson situation was pretty weak as well. But the broadcasters contest that Hodgson wouldn't let them hear the end of it and was constantly being coddled by Gillis. But hey, their team doctors screwed up and management and coaches made it out that Hodgson was fudging his injuries and wasn't manning up. He went a whole year under scrutiny and even still wasn't given a fair shake by coaches because the relationship had been severed. So yes, he needed to get out, but if they did their due diligence they'd have had their 3rd line C they were hoping for... 

 

So this whole AHL team issue made my day when I heard it on the radio! Love it. There's too much arrogance in the Canucks organization. 

[andymo]

The Herald are reporting Abbotsford have pulled the plug on The Heat who may be moving to the New York area...

Sorry, can't add link from my phone

[DirtyDeeds]

The Herald are reporting Abbotsford have pulled the plug on The Heat who may be moving to the New York area...

Sorry, can't add link from my phone

fan960 mentioned it but only briefly with a comment that said something like the same rumours were flying last year too.

 

 

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/calgary-flames/Report+Calgary+Flames+moving+farm+team+York/9738806/story.html

[Kulstad]

How many times have the Flames moved the farm team in the last few years? Saint John, Omaha, Abbotsford...this is ridiculous.  The city of Abbotsford signed a 10 year deal with the Heat, and like any contract, it should be honoured.

[kehatch]

There is a press conference today around 1100 if I remember correctly.  Sounds like they are moving.  Its probably the right thing to do.  They just haven't attracted a large fan base in a Canuck market.  Plus the travel is insane.  They have a really good deal.  But it having the Heat there isn't the right thing for the fans, the Heat, or the municipality.  The residents are paying taxes to support a Flames affiliate that most of them don't watch.  I wouldn't like that.  

[FlamesLogic]

Why dont the flames just move to one of the saskatchewan cities? The AHL average attendance is about 6000 and abbotsford was well below that level:
http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/ahl/2012/?sort=avg_att

 

If the saskatoon blades can get 6000 out to one of their games, surely an AHL team as well: http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7897

 

This way the flames have close recalls and its an extension of their market. They have the buildings to support it like the Credit Union Centre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indoor_arenas_in_Canada

 

Only real reason not to is if the worry is about impacting the blades.

[DirtyDeeds]

Why dont the flames just move to one of the saskatchewan cities? The AHL average attendance is about 6000 and abbotsford was well below that level:

http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/ahl/2012/?sort=avg_att

 

If the saskatoon blades can get 6000 out to one of their games, surely an AHL team as well: http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7897

 

This way the flames have close recalls and its an extension of their market. They have the buildings to support it like the Credit Union Centre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indoor_arenas_in_Canada

 

Only real reason not to is if the worry is about impacting the blades.

this is why you have to be very careful where you move AHL teams to. The impact on the Blades in your example. The AHL does not want to steal market share from other leagues teams, as the WHL OHL and QMJHL are not a rivals.

[Carty]

From...   http://www.theprovince.com/news/Heat+cools+Abbotsford+could+Canucks+moving/9738724/story.html

 

[Kulstad]

From...   http://www.theprovince.com/news/Heat+cools+Abbotsford+could+Canucks+moving/9738724/story.html

 

 

[Flyerfan52]

this is why you have to be very careful where you move AHL teams to. The impact on the Blades in your example. The AHL does not want to steal market share from other leagues teams, as the WHL OHL and QMJHL are not a rivals.

That is always a concern & possibles in Alberta or Sask. already have WHL teams. Ideally you want your AHL team realively close for when you need callups.

If the Heat were moved I wonder if the market would be receptive in Montana.

**********************************************************

When the agreement with St. John's ends in 2015 it looks like the Jets will place their AHL team (currently the Icecaps but that's a name chosen by the NL crowd) to Thunder Bay Ont. Closer proximity, built in fan base as west Ont. considers itself more Mb. then Ont. (still occasional petitions for them to join MB.) & no WHL competition.