The_People1 Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 if he had juuuuust stayed on his feet, that would of been the hit of the offseason so far! An absolute beauty (almost) of a hit... I watched it live. After moving the puck, he looked up and Torres was still more than 10 feet away. Hossa actually took a couple small strides before getting hit, which you never see. Late and vulnerable and he left his feet. I think Torres gets more than 5 games. On the TSN panel, they slowed it down and you can clearly see Torres's skates were on the ice. The panel all agreed the skates came up AFTER contact. BUT, it was like .25 seconds late (marginal, but it will be used against a player like Torres). PLUS, head was principal point of contact. Given Torres is a repeat offender, he will not get the benefit of the doubt. Also, Hossa is a star player and Torres is not, i'm thinking 5-games minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 On the TSN panel, they slowed it down and you can clearly see Torres's skates were on the ice. The panel all agreed the skates came up AFTER contact. BUT, it was like .25 seconds late (marginal, but it will be used against a player like Torres). PLUS, head was principal point of contact. Given Torres is a repeat offender, he will not get the benefit of the doubt. Also, Hossa is a star player and Torres is not, i'm thinking 5-games minimum. Based on what you just said... there is no way you can suspend him that long. The grace period on how late you can hit someone is .40 seconds, as we ALL found out with the Rome suspension. So the hit isn't late. The skate thing... The issue they look at - did the player project himself up into the player he hit, or was it just the physics of the natural way you extend into a hit normally.... much greyer in this case.. as Peeps says, he may not get the benefit here.. But i think it's too grey to garner more than 3 games... if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 yeah... the more i look at it and think about it, the more i could see him get a massive one. like duration of playoffs type suspension... - repeat offender for the exact same type of hit - significant injury on the play And i'm hearing on the radio they estimate the hit was 0.82 secs late... which is late. But i wonder at which point they started that clock.. anyways.. I liked the hit except the late factor or the perception he left his left his feet. He's a hard nosed player who i don't think intends on crossing lines... he intends on punishing, not injuring. Unfortunate. Hope Hossa returns to health soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tachaudh Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Based on what you just said... there is no way you can suspend him that long. The grace period on how late you can hit someone is .40 seconds, as we ALL found out with the Rome suspension. So the hit isn't late. The skate thing... The issue they look at - did the player project himself up into the player he hit, or was it just the physics of the natural way you extend into a hit normally.... much greyer in this case.. as Peeps says, he may not get the benefit here.. But i think it's too grey to garner more than 3 games... if any. I think your objectivity is a bit clouded considering the fact that you "hate the hawks" and are praying for Phoenix to beat them. Torres could have slashed his throat with his stick blade and you would have defended him by saying that the NHL should enact a 1 night and 1 game only slash other players throats with your stick blade rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 I think your objectivity is a bit clouded considering the fact that you "hate the hawks" and are praying for Phoenix to beat them. Torres could have slashed his throat with his stick blade and you would have defended him by saying that the NHL should enact a 1 night and 1 game only slash other players throats with your stick blade rule. Oh really? Yeah.. i guess i'm totally like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
403Loyalty Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Shaw was definitely at fault on this occasion... This is a goaltender he hit... Even if a goalie is outside the crease, it is still incumbent upon the opposing player to avoid unnecessary contact whenever possible... Sure, I think Shaw embellished the hit, but it was still worth a suspension... 3 games is about right... Maybe only 1 or 2 games, unless the the league is trying to send a message for targeting a goalie, especially in the playoffs... Bottom line is... You just can't smoke goalies... and I am not either a Yotes or Hawks fan... What i dont understand is how everyone is saying he "smoked" the goalie. I could maybe see it if Shaw kept his body position right thro the hit, but in reality he didnt he moved and tried to thin up and go into the gap that was there it was unfortunate he hits smith and primarily the head shoulder but its accidental contact not a run there was no extra momentium gained no extra stride. But whats done is done and Shaw got three, onto the next story. Rafi Torres, So lets see his hit on Hossa pretty much summed up rule 48. Hossa was taking away on a stretcher and didnt move. Hossa is a top player on the hawks. After what was ruled for Shaw on a play where the player was not injured and one can argue it was incidental, Where will Torres fall? I have a feeling the hammer will be slammed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Torres scheduled for an in-person hearing on Friday. A tonne of pressure on the league after this hit... I expect duration of playoffs. sort like how Cooke ended last season with an indefinite suspension... and i think ended up missing 17 gms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Rest of the playoff at minimum and I think there should be a provision in there that if Pheonix does not make it out of the first round that the suspension carries over into the regular season. Torres needs the book thrown at him this is getting ridiculous. He clearly has not learned that you have to respect your opponents and stop targeting the head and clearly he has not and if the NHL won't teach him the Coyotes need to step up and get his useles player out of hockey. Terrible hit. Targeted the head, late, charged, and exploded into the head. Garbage hit by a garbage player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 the problem with 'duration of the playoffs' though, is that there is no financial penalty. They may have to slap some games on for next season as well, so that the old wallet is aware of the misdeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
403Loyalty Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Honestly tho the league needs to start looking into 10 game minimum for any hit and up the ante from their. 1-2 games and a maximum fine of 2,500 is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Honestly tho the league needs to start looking into 10 game minimum for any hit and up the ante from their. 1-2 games and a maximum fine of 2,500 is laughable. That might work for you but I'm watching the NHL & hoping it remains a man's game. Under your suggestion they could go coed as some of the women on national teams are very skilled. A 10 game minimum for any hit & we'd have a league less interesting then the Euro 1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
403Loyalty Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 That might work for you but I'm watching the NHL & hoping it remains a man's game. Under your suggestion they could go coed as some of the women on national teams are very skilled. A 10 game minimum for any hit & we'd have a league less interesting then the Euro 1s. LOL sorry i didnt mean any hit, but im talking a straight vicious hit. But your right though too FF52, Its too fine of a line to say what was vicious what had intent was was worse etc its hard to govern but sometimes you need to throw the book at a player when they take it a little too far which I think anyone would agree other than a Vancouver fan that torres pretty much defined that. Im all down for big huge hits "ala Brown on Sedin or even the Schenn hit (cant remember who he hit but its where asham came over to cross check him in the face after)" lol big clean hits are apart of this game and i would never want them to leave... but when they target that head to take them down you gotta remove that from the game. Think of Football, hits are apart of the game but if you go helmet to helmet they throw the book at you. Same has to be said for this. I always think if they did a 10-20 game suspension for matt cookes first dirty dirty hit and then when he repeated they gave him a year ban. Wouldnt that help shape the league that going out of your way to hurt a player would mean stiff consequences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 LOL sorry i didnt mean any hit, but im talking a straight vicious hit. But your right though too FF52, Its too fine of a line to say what was vicious what had intent was was worse etc its hard to govern but sometimes you need to throw the book at a player when they take it a little too far which I think anyone would agree other than a Vancouver fan that torres pretty much defined that. You caught the meaning rather then just the literal words. As we know, some wouldn't. The tough part is we all see things differently depending on the team we root for. Vancouver fans (including the 1s that live in the cellar here) saw the Torres hit as clean because of their hate of the Hawks (& Bruins as DLs clips attest). Meanwhile they justify the Canucks antics the rest of us see as unsportsmanlike. The rest of us are no better. I personally see Pens or 'Nucks actions as worse then then probably are & minimize things my chosen team does. We're supposed to count on the league to be impartial but should realize none of them are. Shanny is supposed to be but his calls are no more consistent then those Colin Campbell made. It's a human failure. This is what we live with. Again, my preference is to remove the body armor that does much of the damage. The goalies do alright with smaller pads so the players will survive with protection that doesn't double as a weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
403Loyalty Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 You caught the meaning rather then just the literal words. As we know, some wouldn't. The tough part is we all see things differently depending on the team we root for. Vancouver fans (including the 1s that live in the cellar here) saw the Torres hit as clean because of their hate of the Hawks (& Bruins as DLs clips attest). Meanwhile they justify the Canucks antics the rest of us see as unsportsmanlike. The rest of us are no better. I personally see Pens or 'Nucks actions as worse then then probably are & minimize things my chosen team does. We're supposed to count on the league to be impartial but should realize none of them are. Shanny is supposed to be but his calls are no more consistent then those Colin Campbell made. It's a human failure. This is what we live with. Again, my preference is to remove the body armor that does much of the damage. The goalies do alright with smaller pads so the players will survive with protection that doesn't double as a weapon. I completely agree with everything you said FF52, and actually I think everyone needs to start thinking this way. Rather than trying to penalize more/stiffer suspensions. Try and reduce the rate of injury by reducing the equipment that helps harden a blow. Now I might be on the fence on this but I wouldnt mind hearing what you think, do you agree that maybe obstruction helped reduce some of the board hits that are currently in the league. I know a lot of naysayers think that obstruction made the game slower etc, but in all honesty I watched it back then and players still entered the zone with speed but some of those hits from behind almost never happened due to the fact you could tie up the player with your free hand rather than check them into the boards to separate them from the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 That might work for you but I'm watching the NHL & hoping it remains a man's game. Under your suggestion they could go coed as some of the women on national teams are very skilled. A 10 game minimum for any hit & we'd have a league less interesting then the Euro 1s. This attitude is the single biggest thing holding the league back from getting rid of the hits for good. Somehow stiffer penalties for predatory hits makes the game less "manly"? This is the 21st freaking century. That macho "man strong, woman weak" mentality is so barbaric. Player safety should not jeopardized for the sake of proving how "tough" men are. Who cares if guys are having the careers, and LIVES cut short. Who cares if not 1, not 2 but THREE NHL players committed suicide in a 3 month span due to the affects of the game. But as long as it's a "man's" game. The scary part is that if that does not wake up the league, I'm afraid nothing will. /rant. First of all we need a more structured discipline system. Fir hits to the head with the principle point of contact being the head, ect... In-game: Head contacted incidentally, even if contact is on body first: 2 mins Head principle point of contact: 5 + game Supplementary: Head Principle Point, 1st offence: 5 games Head Principle Point, 2nd offence: 20 games Head Principle Point, 3rd offence: 82 games If a player doesn't get it after 3 of the same offences, than further bans should be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 First of all we need a more structured discipline system. Fir hits to the head with the principle point of contact being the head, ect... In-game: Head contacted incidentally, even if contact is on body first: 2 mins Head principle point of contact: 5 + game Supplementary: Head Principle Point, 1st offence: 5 games Head Principle Point, 2nd offence: 20 games Head Principle Point, 3rd offence: 82 games If a player doesn't get it after 3 of the same offences, than further bans should be considered. If these rules you propose were to be put into play next season, the nucks wouldn't be able to put a full team on the ice by the end of November... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senor_incendiarse Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 25 Games for Torres Gotta say I agree 100% with this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAce Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 25 Games for Torres Gotta say I agree 100% with this decision. I just really hope this is a sign of things to come.... Id like to think that 25 games will help to eliminate cheap shots, especially head shots. Having said that, they need to start handing out 10-15 game suspensions for first time offenders as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 At first I was like" WTF? 25 games!?" - holy overreaction batman. Then I watched the video... FIVE time repeat offender.... So I agree with suspension. Where they dropped the ball with Torres was the length of his suspension on 4th suspension.. the 2 gamer. He was 3 time offender at that point. Gives the perception that 25 is way too big an overreaction relative to a hit like the Keith hit... People will have to realize that this one was all about previous record. Watch the uproar when the next 1st offender gets a 2gmr... all you will hear is "but Raffe got..." @ace... I only hope this is a sign of things to come for other 3-4-5 time offenders of the same offense... Let those guys sit if they fail learn from past mistakes. Otherwise the system as Shanny has is presently is pretty good. So I hope this is a sign he'll be bending over repeat offenders way more severely. But I do wonder tho... Wouldnt the same message been sent with a 17-20 gamer? 25 is very massive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senor_incendiarse Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I just really hope this is a sign of things to come.... Id like to think that 25 games will help to eliminate cheap shots, especially head shots. Having said that, they need to start handing out 10-15 game suspensions for first time offenders as well. What I find is sad though, maybe this belongs in the officials thread, is that the 2 guys on ice called nothing and receive no punishment. Shanahan stated it as a violation of 3 rules. So it could have been called interference, charging or illegal contact to the head but nothing was called. I don't believe this was far enough way from the play to be excused as a miss by the officials. It was Walkom and Walsh working that game and they worked 2 nights later in Jersey. I think the proper punishment is to have the on ice officials subject to discipline when a blatant call is missed that results in serious injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 What I find is sad though, maybe this belongs in the officials thread, is that the 2 guys on ice called nothing and receive no punishment. Shanahan stated it as a violation of 3 rules. So it could have been called interference, charging or illegal contact to the head but nothing was called. I don't believe this was far enough way from the play to be excused as a miss by the officials. It was Walkom and Walsh working that game and they worked 2 nights later in Jersey. I think the proper punishment is to have the on ice officials subject to discipline when a blatant call is missed that results in serious injury. While I agree that refs should have their performance reviewed, the remedy you suggest provides all the wrong incentives. If this type of punishment was handed out to refs, they would start calling absolutely everything that was questionable. You would take the ref's judgment out of the game and you would end up with more powerplay time than 5-on-5 time. You have to provide the proper incentives for people. While you are outraged that the call was missed, the real question should be why the call was missed. If it is simply that the refs didn't see it, then it is difficult to hold them accountable. Even if they did see, given there point of view, the hit may not have looked as questionable as it really was. Hockey is a fast paced game, and there are only two refs on the ice trying to watch 12 different players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohnnycanuck Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 WOW! 25 games for Torres and it's carried over to next year. I didn't think he would get that much untill I saw the overhead video in Shanny's explanation which clearly shows him launching his shoulder into Hossa's face (never saw that angle before) What a brutal hit and Torres should have known better. I just hope that Hossa gets well soon and doesn't suffer any long term problems. Good job Shanny and hopefully Torres and other players will get the message and learn form this kinda like Cook did. It's better for your career,other players careers' and the League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Too much Torres' headshot catalogue. His next headshot will be his last, if he isn't done now. It does seem like Cooke has made the concerted effort of avoiding head contact. That's all the league is asking, and Torres' catalogue speaks for itself. I'm not shocked at the length. Shanny's intent is to hammer repeat offenders, and it starts with Torres. "In addition, Torres will not be eligible to play in any preseason games". Makes me want to cheer Chicago for a 3 game winning streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Makes me want to cheer Chicago for a 3 game winning streak. I'm already doing that. I picked the Hawks in 6 but 7 will do. Besides, it would PO the Canuck fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted April 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 What do you guys expect to happen tonight? Other than it going to OT? Can the Coyotes actually finish em? It can't really go into OT again, can it? Was leaning Yotes from the start.... but i really would Love seeing a Hawks-Preds second round.. That would be outstanding hockey! Go... Team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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