travel_dude

Saw this trade proposed: To Islanders: Valimaki, Zary, Monahan (25% retained), and 2025 1st To Flames: Barzal Do you thnk that's close to fair value? At the least I think it would need to be 50% of Monahan. Would probably need to take Richard Panic as well, since the difference is only $3M. For sure has to be a protected 1st. The salary next year for Baezal is problematic. Is it even worth it to us?

Was that the best we could offer Gaudreau after last year? I get he's one year away from it, but first offers matter. Gaudreau was offered 10.5 here. I think that's the ballpark.

Johnny was a case of a player coming out of college hockey. Lower skillsets than the AHL, but full of beefy guys that can plaster him. The ice seemed smaller to him because of the level of play in the NHL being so much higher. I suspect Pelts is already past that. Long playoff run. Playing against NHL players cast down becuase the rosters were set. So, he has a bigger set to have worked through. I could be smokin something. I thought Mange could be a 30 goal scorer at some point. He took longer to get here than I expected, but then again we held him back a bit. I think we kinda did the same thing with Dube as Bennett, so that's a lesson. They don't belong with Lucic.

I think that Pelletier has shown he is 100% pro. Can out of junior and beat the door down in the AHL. Maybe that means nothing, but we had a killer team with him on it. Ultimately, neither him nor the other top prospect Wolf were enough to win the Calder Cup. I do think that sometimes overcook people. There's as much risk there as undercooking them. One year in th AHL would not be considered overcooking, though. I have to think back to Gaudreau's first 7 games his rookie season. Almost got sent back to the AHL. I think the coach sat down with him and told him to do something.

That would not surprise me. They won't do more than a handshake deal until they clear cap. Makes sense why Dobson hasn't been signed yet. Him and Romanov. Lou doesn't liek dealing from weakness.

We chose how to use Coleman. Was really best suited with Mangiapane, but was more the conscience of the line. His cap is what you pay for a guy consistent in the playoffs and has ability to score 20. Just under $5M on 6 years. Playoff leadership only can get so much buy in though. He was willingto break bones to win, while other just wanted to get through and get a new payday. He never specifically called out the top 2 guys, but in general I would say he felt a few guys didn't leave it all on the ice. Need more like him, not less. Kadri seems to be that guy, though he has some baggage. STL hates him. Toronto was glad to get rid of him. Has a habit of going over the line sometimes.

I don't think there is any kind of appetite to trade Ras. Top scoring D, need more like him not less. But LD is more stacked than before. Weeger is use to it. Weeger/Hanifin/Kylington/Zadorov/Valimaki/Mackey is too much depth for one side. RD is Ras/Tanev/Meloche. Nothing wrong with that. I would put Meloche as more NHL 3rd pair ready than Valimaki/Mackey. So, to me, we should trade one of Hanifin or Kylington. And one of Valimaki or Mackey. We would have 6 NHL D and one spare. It's tough to trade away depth, but I don't see any way to keep them all. Even if we keep 7 NHL D and one spare, we have to pick one D to be traded and try to fit in 8 guys into a 6 man rotation. That works with a guy like Stone, but not so much for the ex-AHL guys. Obviously, if Weeger is not a long term asset, then we need to rethink that. But, I would suggest he was a big part of the trade and a huge need for this team. They will offer him the biggest Flames D salary. I can't see him turning that down.

So, you are willing to make the statement: Not directly answering your question but noteworthy: He was still fully in the AHL at Vladar's age, and didn't have a decent NHL season until he was 3 years older than Vladar is now. So there's some perspective on why I haven't given up on Vladar yet. Annoys me when I read various articles about Vladar being washed up or it being his last season here. Wouldn't surprise me but that doesn't make it wise. Call him an AHL goalie at age 24, yet he was a 1a/1b goalie in the lockout year. Traded to a team deep with goaltending. No wonder he took another year in the AHL. Was in NHL at age 25, not 3 years older than Vladar. Your original premise was correct that Vladar is a good goalie prospect and potential starter at some point. But I noticed that you said nothing about Markstrom in this thread this season until you bring up your impresion that Marky takes a step back. I think you can pump up Vladar without suggesting Markstrom couldn't do well until much older. Anyway, argue about it, don't argue about it. Doesn't really matter. If you are right this season, you will let everyone know. If you are wrong you might say something positive after the playoffs.

I don't always agree that a player needs to start on a 4th line. That is not really Sutter's way. He prefers offense/defensive players be ready for top 9. Ruzie was at times used on the 4th line, but Sutter was not a fan of it. You can learn there, but you lose some of the offense by doing it. Mange did okay because we had more of an offensive bottom 6. If we were to use a 4th scoring line, that changes things. No Lucic. Keeping Mange with Coleman and Backs is a fine alternative, assuming we don't bring in a top 6 C. If we did, I would use Pelletier-C-Toffoli and move Mange to top line. Backlund would be him + Coleman plus new Mange. Could be Dube or Crouse. Or we use Crouse on 2nd line and Pelts with Backlund. Lots of options, but we have to figure out if we are adding to it from trade/UFA or from within. At the very least we have to do a trade of one or more D.

Dube had that "too good for the AHL" look, so I can understand why. I think part of the problem with Dube is he studied under the Bennett world of playing F. Attack directly with the puck. Go through instead of around. Pelletier is going to look more like a Gaudreau than a power forward. He won't shy away, but his game is more playmaker than run over. For a slighly smaller F, they need to have escape velocity. But to put things in perspective, he is bascially the same size as Dube and Mange. 1 inch shorter and 4 to 7 pounds lighter.

If we had Kadri, then we have essentially what COL had. 2 scoring lines and an elite shutdown line. I only support a Kadri add if it doesn't kill our cap for years to come. $6M x 5 is low, but would not kill us right away. Lines up with Mangiapane. Means we have to trade Kyl or Hanifin, but that's just a guess on cap but an observation on excess D. If you want to maintain contender status for longer than just last year, you have to have multiple scoring lines and ability to replace guys as they get older with young guys that have built up their stock. Toffoli replaced by Coronato at some point. Backlund replaced by a strong two way C. Tanev replaced by Mackey. Etc. And yes, I feel we were in the contender status last year and can maintain that by smart moves or young guys stepping up in committee. EDIT - I should have prefaced this with "Kadri-like" player. Doesn't have to be Kadri exactly. An impact player for sure. May be the result of a trade of a D.

Iggy's deal for 5 years, so you are signing him to age 35. We are talking about signing JH to 7-8 years, so you are paying for years past his likely contributing to date. No different to signing JG to 7-8 years; you buy the last years as the low of his career. I'm not suggesting you don't sign for that much, just that we are buying the last few years of elite, years of franchise level, and a couple of less than franchise. He could be another Joe P. but could fade quicker. Do what you have to do, but that has to be considered.

Ahh, the AHL argument. ON two teams in the NHL but played in the AHL. Wasn't he the starter in FLA when he was 22? You know the lockout year. Vladar made his backup debut (more than just 5 games) as a 24 year old. Markstrom went to VAN for Luongo and was depth begind the great Eddie Lack and Miller. Became the full backup at 26. So, your observations are clouded a bit. Suffice to say that we have two capable NHL goalies right now. Chances are both have above average starter numbers this year.

How did you come to the conclusion his usual is 910 or worse? Is that based on one season where he posted a 904? Had a concussion didn't he. Maybe instead of worrying about the decline of a 32 year old, worry about lessening his starts to the point we aren't burning him out. Offhand, I can think of 4 other goalies aged 32 or older that put up number similat to him.

To a certain extent you need both. Players to build their way up and new pieces brought on. I would love to see a move from the excess D to the C spot. But, I also think that we have several impact players that many discount. If Pelletier can come in and pot 5-10 goals and 20 assists, that would be a win. I don't think it's too far to suggest that he can do that. 10 goals seems like meh, but the 20 assists is what I am thinking really matters. He's a playmaker. Has the wheeils to get around. Has the compete level of Mangiapane. Was one of the top players in the AHL. Let's put it this way, the prospects won't be playing the season unless they show they can do it. Ruzicka was sent down because we had no roster spot for him, even though Sutter wanted him for 3C. IN a limited role, he still put up decent numbers. Contenders are able to roll these guys into the lineup and cut their teeth. Any spot they earn they have to show why they are better than an aging vet or replacement vet. Kylington did that after a yeear where he was waived and sent down. Mangiapne started on the team twice before he took hold.

You may remember most of the season looked that way too. The PP is really the only time you can get a goalie looking one way and the puck goes the other way. That and an odd man rush. For all the PP goals we scored, there was a theme. Guy in the slot. Less tips this past year. You can only do side to side when the team doesn't defend the pass. Besides, Otter was one of the best guys I have seen at reacting to the shot. I watched at least one save thinking how the F did he get his glove over there or his blocker in that spot. The only spot that would prevent a goal. I admit that at times I got frustrated with shots on the blocker side, but it was the only place you could beat him cleanly. Bread scored one that I still don't know how it went in. It must have changed direction off the defender's stick.

Okay, so you feel we are close, with may 2-3 years to be in that spot. I actually think that extends a bit longer, assuming we sign the new guys. We don't have the big name prospects that other teams have drafted, but that's just scouts raving about them right now. Most of the last 2 years top guys haven't played a single pro game. The best ones are in the NHL and part of the team. The rest are in the same boat that Mangiapane was when he finished his OHL career, or Pelletier was last year. They have to prove it. The majority of the team is less than 30. When we plug the couple holes, we are bringing in 25-27 year old as vets or rookies like Pelletier and Ruzicka. Wolf has a bit of time to wait, since we may have a future starter in Vladar. All I am saying is that the path to contender is clearer. Smart trades and signings will help. The work ethic replaced the old lazy play. Even Tkachuk and JG had some times when they got frustrated or spent too much time on things that didn't matter. Whining at the refs. Messing with a goalie and fighting others.

I was looking back at HD chances. Not all games have them listed for each period. In game 7 alone, the Flames had 16. That didn't include OT. We lost game six for a couple of reasons. One being we were absolutely owned on faceoffs. The other being horrible play in our zone. Markstrom also was the big story of the first round. Led Flames goals for SA% in the playoffs. When you are facing a lightsout goalie, yours better be matching them when the ice tilts the other way. We saw that in game 1 and game 7 just to name a couple.

I didn't get that sense about Tkachuk. He was signed after Gaudreau by two years. He wanted to keep the term short. BT wouldn't have wanted a 3 year deal structured that way, but there was really not a lot of choice. Tkachuk is the master politician. He's not going to tell 100% truth. He will say what he thinks people want to hear.

And LA showed that EDM was capable of imploding. Really though, the Flames had an insane amount of shot attempts. The shots we fired that reached the goalie were not just flip shots. I hate losing to EDM, but it was no blowout.

He was on a Presidents Cup winning team last year, who went out and tried to get more assets. And still were one or two pieces away. After this off-season, most teams are missing those pieces. If not all. COL is back to being one piece down. And exchanged a goalie for a high risk goalie.

I have to ask what changed in the last month for Tkachuk. He was reasonable in his ask to be dealt, but there were really only one or two teams he would sign with. I'm pretty sure that's what BT said. CAR may have had a better offer, but I seriously doubt he would sign there. He was all FLA, all the time. The STL return has never been confirmed, so I don't even know if that was a serious offer or just a cap dump.

Two questions, one answer. When you say a surprise, that implies the first question was the yes.

There are some rumors that BT offered 7.5, but who really knows. He even suggested that he was looking for houses last summer. I find that somewhat unlikely unless he was going to stay. He didn't need a new deal to stay here. I was on that kick myself, but I think he was gone once he stopped negotiating. The agent could easily have gotten a deal done. BT would humm and haww, but the alternative was high risk.

So, you are projecting two US born players that maybe were already looking outside onto two players that spent their careers in FLA? One might think that they are eager to sign here and have that part of their lives stable again. Like JG and MT just did. Compare it to your own situation. Would you accept a job somewhere for one year and think, wow I can go somewhere else maybe in a year? Or would you think I have a chance to get most or all of the things I want in life and be paid as good or better than elsewhere? Maybe for some players, hockey is a gig thing. Go somewhere make some money and go somewhere else. No guarantee the place he may want to go to has an opening or will havve a roster good enough to make it worthwhile. MTL is going to be a kid zone. If Price is gone or continues to decline, they aren't even a playoff team. Sure they would overpay for him this season, but he's not going to go there as a UFA. We don't get that far down the road.