robrob74
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Posts posted by robrob74
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20 hours ago, JTech780 said:
Great quote
in our case we have a beagle. Sometimes loyal and sometimes doesn't back you up.
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weren’t there rules for shot height and stuff like that? And for awhile goalies weren’t allowed on their knees as well?
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1 hour ago, jjgallow said:
Gillies had raw talent. I am sure of it. Georgiev had raw talent. We're all sure of it.
I'm not saying Gillies was the world's best prospect.
We can't let management off the hook. They need to improve their goaltender development.
But in today terms, yeah there's really no point in comparing Gillies to Georgiev. They are on completely different paths now.
I dunno!
is it on the organization that Gillies isn’t ready to start games?
Every time I ever see him he lets in a terrible goal or two then suddenly looks like a very sound goalie. But until then he looks horrible. So it takes him a goal or two to get ready.
Is that on the goalie or on the organization? I wonder, do we need a mentality coach? Who helps with preparedness?
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1 hour ago, jjgallow said:
Ward should have been the coach here a long time ago.
This is my passive-aggressive way of showing support
I was always frustrated that it wasn't given to him sooner.
That said, I don't think he can save this ship. A short win-rally is pretty normal after a coaching change but IMHO our problems run deeper than the coaching level.
It's a step in the right direction either way.
I think the biggest problems were that there were really only 2 lines capable of scoring. If they can find a way to keep it at 3 of 4 lines scoring, we could have something.
I still think the roster has a few holes. The only reason I wonder if Dube is the real answer is because if/when we get into a toughness battle, the Flames most likely lose.
honestly I just don’t think the team is cheap enough. I might include intense in that thought too. I see us as a nice guy team yet for some reason tend to get more penalties.
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12 minutes ago, cross16 said:
Igor Shestroykin has been tabbed as the "next one" by the Rangers the last few years. Currently the best goalie in the AHL in his first full season there, and at 23, since coming over from Russia. 4th rounder from 2014 who has been one of, if the thee, top goalie at multiple levels the last 4/5 seasons.
Given the theme of this thread, I find it interesting that there is an excitement about a goalie who holds a sub .900 save % at the AHL level.
Who is the sub .900 Goalie?
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3 hours ago, travel_dude said:
Gillies has been around as long as Rittich, yet he never seems to be able to take that next step.
Decent one game in the AHL, bad the next.
That's with the same team in front.
Has NHL size but not senses.
Parsons has had injury trouble and hasn;t been able yet to show his battle game.
That's why he trying to get it back in the ECHL.
He gets the most starts to see if he is the one.
Schneider is a fall back plan.
Maybe he should be in the AHL over Gillies, but he isn;t lighting up the ECHL.
We can debate who is better, but really we haven;t seen anyone other than Zag be consistent enough at the AHL level.
If you aren't lighting up the ECHL level, why would you be better in the AHL?
I agree!
plus
ive heard from a goalie, not sure who, on a radio broadcast over the years say that it is easier to play in the AHL than the ECHL. The play is smoother, and better players. I guess the choppy aspect as you go down levels makes it harder.
I think it could be good to learn tracking. I don’t really remember fully why that is that it is easier in the A, but I can get why. The lower the level of players and skill the harder it is to play the game. The rhythm isn’t as great either.
for me, it is also the team in front of you. How do they play D, do they let you see the shot, are there a lot of bad turnovers?
I wonder, are our goalies in the NHL giving us league average goaltending? Or are the numbers a product of team play? I think if you look at the numbers alone some would say our goalies are average or below, yet they’ve been giving us a chance to win. Last night, for me, was one of the games the Flames won despite the goaltending. It might be the only game all year, yet the numbers and JJ would say the goaltending has been ok or bad.
even Talbot has given the flames a chance to win in most of his starts but has horrid numbers.
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Don’t we need more than two goalies in the minor leagues?
the thing is, we need guys developing and playing. I think like JJ that sometimes you need to run with a guy. But then what if you run with the wrong guy? You can’t do it that way. You need to have 4 hands in on the poker table.
you can have a star in the making go down in injury and lose it all. You need more, but quality more, not just anyone.
should be asking About or looking for mechanics. What is their demeanour? How do they react in various situations?
ok they can have great numbers, but what is the team like in front of them?
I go back to watching Kipper in San Jose and the year before he came to us he had a 3.14 gga. In a game I saw I thought he was the goalie I wanted. Then his numbers were up and down but I go back to how the team played in front of him.
numbers are as good as the team in front of you. Sometimes they’re decent despite that.
we need goalies in the system, guys with promise.
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14 hours ago, Sarasti said:
He looked decent in camp but yeah not quite there yet.
If he continues his pace though I think he gets a good long look next year.
It sucks that there's only the two options with him though, as there is a point where a player is just too good for the CHL and it's not developmentally beneficial to send them back.
I feel the rule should be the season directly after the draft and not two seasons. A player should be able to play AHL that year. Like Bennett Had his shoulder surgery , then played OHL, then here for playoffs. After that year he should have had the option to play in the NHL, AHL or OHL, make a clause that it burns a year if playing in the AHL. Te as ms won’t want to burn a year if it’s for a borderline developing player. But standouts with nothing more to learn should get to go.
they also have an exceptional rule that allows 15 year olds so they should have that rule for AHL. I don’t think a lot would be jumping from CHL, just the few who can’t learn or is detrimental to developing them by staying.
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3 hours ago, jjgallow said:
I guess it's a matter of perspective. Some would say that we don't need more a of a bad thing lol,
I would tend to agree with you, I do like Bennett and Lucic. But with three really big stipulations:
1. We'd want them on the RH side of the ice.
2. In the case of Lucic, we'd want a younger version. Assuming the same age and stage as he's at, then to point 3:
3. I replaced "need" with "want" because although it would help it wouldn't even move the needle on our chances of winning a cup.
IMHO we have a problem with our core that the supporting cast can't fix.
Some of us pushed hard to trade Gio a while back....well that's pretty much a dead convo now (we wouldn't get much for him)
Pushed hard last offseason to trade Gaudreau .... that may have sailed too, at least in terms of valuations at that time
That was seen as blowing the team up but it was actually an attempt to salvage what we had. The more you delay the inevitable the harder it hits you when it arrives.
I do see a rebuild on the way, I do see making some trades where we don't get the return we deserve,
The one good thing about it, if it unfolds as it did in the past, is that we have a chance to do a proper rebuild this time, starting with acquiring elite young talent in net (literally perfect draft for it and Dustin Wolf isn't that bad of a start), followed by D.
I saw it when we were winning a lot of games. We got fooled by fancy stats. I didn’t see other teams make a hard effort at trying to stop the fancy stats, and a lot of the early goals looked too easy. When it looks too easy, for me it means, what will it look like when it gets hard? Can they find ways to score. And I would say, can the team score when Gaudreau isn’t pushing for points? I saw him get shut down in past years, so I saw that coming.
the answer was Ryan. Yes they scored, but again it was only one line doing the lifting.
I also got so much flack when I would call Monahan out. What can he do away from the puck, or outside of the slot in the offensive zone? I really think Lindholm is the answer for C. But can Monahan produce without Lindholm?
I think Gaudreau needs to change things up more often. Don’t count on him doing all of the zone entries. Have options.
I won’t mind a build. But I think that this team still has trouble drafting the right players. We are drafting NHLers but are we drafting NHLers that can win the cup.
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4 hours ago, travel_dude said:
I wonder if you are talking about gritty players or cheap players.
Cheap players are guys like Perry.
Gritty players are guys like Benn, Bennett.
If you look at the 2012 Janko draft, there were a lot of misses by teams from 12 onwards.
Guys like Hertl and Wilson had little on their resumes at the time, so drafting them was lucky.
High-end players come from drafting in the 1st round, or lucky picks like Kucherov.
TBH, you need to take care of D first, since they take longer to graduate.
We wasted picks on guys like Poirier, Klimchuik, and Lazar (2nd).
Wasted Granlund (2nd from 2011) on Shinkaruk.
Funny how we were in on Kucherov in 2011, but waited too long to select him.
And selected Wotherspoon and Granlund first.
Yeah, okay.
I think there is a disconnect between the goalie drafting in North America vs Europe.
Maybe that came about later, due to a concerted effort to look at Europe.
It sucked before.
Both pro and amateur.
Ortio and Irving.
Berra, JoeyMac, Hiller.....
After all, we had Johnny at BC and we watched Demko play really well, yet chose Mason MacDonald?
I mean that we need both. Bennett isn’t enough. Lucic isn’t enough. We need one more of each.
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3 hours ago, jjgallow said:
That's like saying we don't need generational players because Gretzky couldn't win a cup in Las Angelas and Lindros couldn't win in Philly and McDavid can't win in Edmonton.
I'm saying you have to use applicable math for the situation,
Winning a Stanley cup is a rare event. So to properly determine the best contributors of a rare outcome you need to look at the factors that contribute when it Does happen, not at the factors that contribute to it not happening. Or your data will be too random to have meaning.
Said another way... I'm claiming that you really should have top-5 goaltending (top 10 in a pinch) to compete for a cup. By definition, that means 80% of the teams who meet that criteria will NOT win the cup this year. It isn't mathematically possible for the 5 best goalies to all win the cup. But if you look AT the winning teams, you will see that the overwhelming majority of them meet this criteria.
To Your point...... your Carey Price point: Is it worth the extra $5m/year for the honor of having the NHL's "Top" goalie? Answer is probably not, because there isn't enough separation among the top 5. Unless of course you come across a generational goalie who averages above .95%. Something we have not seen yet.
I'm not saying that we're "done" if we solidify our goaltending future. I'm just saying, we would have started then. I wouldn't rest easy by any means, I'd just be all over the defense threads instead of this one lol
I understand your frustration. I have been pretty miffed at the lack of a plan in that area. Whoever is scouting the Euro-goalies is doing a good job. My bet is that it isn’t the same scout (maybe it is) that called Ramo the best goalie not in the NHL. They’re seemingly finding a few gems. We still need to wait and see on Zag. But his future could be bright.
my bigger frustration is not finding diamond high end players to push forward, and guys that can play a heavy game, that’s a need in the playoffs.
we also don’t have any dirty players. Guys to really get under the skin. Tkachuk is good but the other team Tends easily tune him out. I feel Ville Nieminen pushed us over the edge in 04. Although Gelinas was a great add as well.
I feel like the team just doesn’t want to skate when things get hard. No amount of goaltending with save the team if it continues.
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1 hour ago, jjgallow said:
It is hard to claim that goaltending is the biggest problem with this team right now. Real hard.
The opinion that it's the most important part of our future, however (followed by D, specifically RD) is imho a valid arguement. And that Riitch is not good enough to save this core nor young enough to form the next one.
I don’t know. Even Price wasn’t good enough to save Montreal. Lundqvuist was a guy who propelled the Rangers for awhile.
and without Rittich the Flames are probably bottom 5 in the league right now, so he is kind of pushing the team further. It’s hard to win games when the team doesn’t score, and they didn’t in 3 of 4 games.
is the expectation to pitch a shutout every game?
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9 hours ago, conundrumed said:
Of....you? Or the Flames? lol
I do agree with JJ that something is amiss with this club. The thing I don’t agree with is that it is goaltending (for once).
although there was mention to Ramo and I was wrong about him also.
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4 hours ago, jjgallow said:
total nonsense imho. Maybe true for accidentally landing into the finals or quarterfinals.
completely true.
You can't just hope your goalie gets hot and that's your playoff plan.
Winning cups is hard. You generally need a top 5 goalie in the league (occasionally top 10)... and THEN they have to get hot from there.
And that is Just the first criteria.
But if you overplay your top 5 goalie, generally you'll lose to the other 4 teams that didn't. And if you overplay a top 20 goalie, well...we should be selling assets at the trade deadline is basically where this heads.
I get there are top 5 goalies out there, but then I also wonder how you justify who is sometimes.
Price, best goalie in the world for years, but the team sucked. He can get some good numbers even with a terrible team.
for me, it depends on who you have in front of a goalie and the goalie. A goalie can play great but if a team isn’t playing we see what Rittich posts as numbers. But there in lies the numbers, we see numbers and so Rittich looks worse.
if we had a team firing on all cylinders then his numbers probably look top 10 in the league. Maybe better?
but for me, I think our team has a tendency to leave to goalies in horrible situations and tend to score on them.
obviously Rittich has a tendency to make huge saves with a nickname BSD. Can’t stop all of the high danger chances we give up though.
I don’t think cups need a top goalie. Although LA won with one of the top goalies, but also with a D that was one of the best.
right now, goalie is not our need. We have about 4-5 years with Ritter, and hopefully Wolf can be ready when the time comes.
I just don’t like our mix. We are a soft team and easy to play against, especially when other teams play engaged.
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3 hours ago, jjgallow said:
Well, the one goalie that we would have been developing right now had we just done our job (which is the scouting I was referring to) instead of sending all our scouts to crap leagues trying to out-wit the system and renting these historical figures on their death beds (Elliot).......................... Is Carter Hart.
So, turned out pretty good. Among many other examples. And yeah we should be proud of Riittich and for that I apologize but I can guarantee that if we offered up Rittich for Hart as a trade we'd be laughed at....hard.
we could’ve easily taken Demko instead of McDonald and there would’ve been a near starter right there.
I don’t think we should be complaining about Rittich though.
I am with you on the rest of the drafting though. I think we could have done more to find a goalie.
like someone else stated earlier today. We could’ve had Vasilevski instead of Jankowski.
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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:
Zagadulin is 9-1-1 in Stockton this season. Does he deserve a call-up if Talbot can't win? I haven't seen him play but maybe he's doing something right?
I think our European goalie scouts sound like they’re starting to do really well.
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55 minutes ago, conundrumed said:
Personally, off the record, lol.
I think Rittich's a workhorse.
That's a terrific find. Undoubtedly a top 31 goalie in the world, with more to prove.
So what are you babbling on about? He's been exceptional.
You're being silly.
now go sit in your room and think about what you’ve said.
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5 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
I don't really know sorry I just saw a comparison and responded. Anyway. Would love to see Rittich jump up that next level as much as anyone
I feel like he has.
but the team in front of him took a few huge strides backwards.
i was just saying, he’s only a few years older than Binnington. But I see the difference being their team is significantly better, and play a more significantly consistent game.
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22 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
that....Binnington won a Stanley Cup two years younger than Rittich is now, and he was an extreme "late bloomer". That same year, been the 4th-ranked goalie in the NHL.
And, the previous year, being ranked 5th in the AHL
And, having previously won a championship in junior
Compared to Riitich, who:
Has never won a champtionship in any major league or performed particularly well in playoffs
Was 14th in the AHL while being older than Binnington while he was 5th in the AHL
Is currently 18th in the NHL (which is what's spurring all this enthusiasm) while Binnington is 9th and younger.
It is great that Riitich is doing well but the above is the difference.
In a nutshell: Binnington being younger and already significantly better. I just think we've struggled for so long with our goalies we don't even remember what it's like to be great in net lol.
for me it is context. You can only win with what players you have in front of a goalie, regardless of how good the goalie is. If it were that way, how many cups should Price have by now? How many has he got?
some goalies are really good, but even that, how about Brobovsky, Lundqvuist? Luongo?
what about Niemi and Crawford? So many here don’t think they’re bonafide #1’s. At least when Niemi wasn’t and Crawford some think wasn’t in his first cup, but was really good in his second. But the difference is the teams they have in front.
yes you need a good goalie to win but you don’t need a great goalie. And you need a goalie to get hot.
numbers look bad for Rittich right now, but the Flames numbers could be bottom feeding without Rittich. So I think it’s not really fair to judge the guy with what he has done. He had a different route to get here, but last year he should have been a starter, and this year he is showing why. He also worked harder to get his stamina up.
I don’t want to be a Montreal for all of those years where goaltending was the only reason they got into the playoffs.
we now have a goalie, it is painfully evident that the mix is wrong with our F & D.
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On 11/29/2019 at 1:17 PM, jjgallow said:
I'll try and shut up, I think it's good that there's support for our goalies. And yes I am capable of it. One of these days I'll show you I can be happy in here but I haven't been since about 2007.
We have done this many times before, bringing in 26 and 27 year old "rookies". Players who were Just good enough to be NHL backups at the very peak of their career and every time we get foolled into thinking they have another 10 years of improvement because they're rookies.
Anyway I don't have anything against Riitich or his success story when looking at it in isolation. It's the broader picture where I struggle.
Rittich is only a year older than Binnington and my bet the only difference is that the Blues are a better all-round team than the Flames. They’re built a bit better throughout their lineup and were in the mix at the start of the season to be the 2nd tier of cup contenders. They weren’t supposed to be last in the league in January. They clearly showed why, and I don’t necessarily think it was just goaltending that brought them over the edge.
I think Ritter should’ve been the clear starter last year. His age is roughly about where most starters start, no?
anytime before then, they’d have been wasted years anyway.
I say let’s keep Rittich as a starter for another 6 years and develop young again. He will be 33 and seems to have grasped the work it takes to train to be a starter in the NHL.
Who knows what will happen, maybe in the meantime we can draft and develop one of our own.
thing about Rittich though, he’s Roughly the same as the core, so he can be the starter while the core is going.
if we don’t win the cup, I have my doubts we can with this group, but it isn’t going to be because of Rittich. I want a clear 1st in the league goalie too, but so do 30-31 other teams. There are about3-5 of those in the league.
what I didn’t like was the Brian Elliott’s.
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3 hours ago, conundrumed said:
Boy oh boy, we're workhorsing Rittich due to the team's poor performances. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
One thing for sure, we need him healthy.
I love the guy! I was like most and hated the signing, because I didn't see him play. But once we had those 3 goalies at once, I could see why they signed him. He has his structure down. I wanted our other prospects to shine as much as everyone else. Rittich is the clear choice and so far is showing it. We are lucky to have him. I hope he keeps it up.
But I feel like Talbot has played well too. He hasn't had the run support, and now the only thing others will see in his play are the stats. Next year or the year after people will look at the stats and say the goaltending didn't cut it.
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On 11/22/2019 at 9:34 AM, jjgallow said:
Part Two: Yaroslav Askarov
IMHO our goaltending system right now is bleak at best:
Is it time to just solve it? If we want to rebuild, this is where we start. If we don't want to rebuild.... well this is still where we start.
Calgary deserves a bonafide young 1A goaltender to build around and I'm just Tired of the games we've been playing since Kipper was in his prime. We're just Not going to develop them in-house really, without a complete organizational change. And we're not going to see success until we get them.
A possible solution could rise from our recent team performance. If you look at our games in hand and our goal differential, we are Well within contention for this Yaroslav Askarov. The best goaltending prospect potentially in years.
He has the size, he has the skills, does he win when it matters? Check:
He would instantly change our outlook from Bleak to Bright. He'd give us hope that within 2-3 years we'd have some of the best goaltending in the NHL and it would continue to get better over the next 10 years.
If you look at first-round goaltender picks....they are actually pretty good statistically. But when they flop they flop hard. IMHO, this is not a Trevor Kidd situation because Yaroslav Askarov is a tournament winner. Trevor Kidd never won a thing when we drafted him. I still don't know how he was ranked that high. This guy, it's clear.
didnt they bring kidd in right away? For the team we had at the time, he was ok. But I think he could’ve used time in the AHL. -
3 hours ago, travel_dude said:
Is Fox in CAR now?
No, he did not want to play for them nor the Flames.
Hamilton was traded with Ferland for two players that will be with the Flames for a long time.
So, I agree that we gave up a very good player for a very good forward and a decent future #2 D-man.
The other things he did are debateable.
I don't like his trades much.
DRafting has been good.
I don’t dispute him not wanting to play there or here, I dispute just throwing him into a deal. I thought we could get more by doing a separate deal for him. I think a 2nd or 3rd rounder is more than what we ended up with, which was nothing.
if Carolina says no, i walk away.
I feel
Ferland = Hanifin
Hamilton > Lindholm
Fox Thrown in, we lost the deal.
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I think it isn’t the parity that has the worst teams getting points early. I think it is the younger players with energy out working the vets and then the vets take time to get going, and Once they do, the separate themselves from the younger weaker teams. They know they have to steal a few early to have a chance.
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
I think the team needs to play a better TeamD game. Do we have the guys to do that? If we were able to play better TeamD then I think goaltending would look better.
id love to have a game saver goalie - a guy that steals a bunch of games, but I also want a punishing D that Is suffocating. I’ve liked Nashville and St Louis’s D.
we say we would like to develop our guy, but traditionally, goalies sift through different organizations before reaching potential. How many teams hadBishop been on before he settled in a Dallas? Anderson is on his second team.
Elliott was supposed to be a starter, even he ended up with how many teams? He did really well with the Blues but didn’t match our system of play.
Anderson in Ottawa would’ve been great for us but didn’t end up here and went back into the draft. He was on 4 or more different teams as well.
goalies are tough and if we look at teams who didn’t develop their goalie, how many teams has their goalies played for prior to settling? Even Rask wasn’t drafted by the Bruins, but developed by them, yes.
would anyone here take Markstrom? He was drafted by a different team but a lot of his development happened the last few years with the Canucks.
could it be goalies might not make it due to the way the Flames play in front of them as well?