robrob74
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Posts posted by robrob74
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I don't like Ward's comments about Lucic tonight. It tells me that he values the friendships with the players over the coaching aspect of the relationship. That's dangerous! It creates that country club attitude. Then when the coach has to get hard on their players, they lose the room. At least it's my theory...
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Wow! Kassian got a3 year extension. He worth the 3.2 per year?
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8 hours ago, cross16 said:
he missed the playoffs his last 2 years with the Bruins. They fired him mid season and Bruce Cassidy took them to 18-8 and back to one of the top teams in the NHL without any major additions.
I don’t disagree in regards to the separation between coaching and team talent, especially his Montreal teams. Judging coaching is imo next to impossible for fans but I’m just saying there is very little for me to suggest Julien is worth targeting given how Boston took off after he left and he’s never done anything in Montreal.
I just looked over his history in Boston. It isn’t like he only coached a few bad seasons. He haD been to the cup finals a number of times, won a cup, been to as far as the conference as well.
the bruins did take off after, but they also went through a mini retool where they had a dip to get better again.
I don’t know if he is the coach for the Flames either, but he has a decent record, even with a Montreal team that doesn’t boast a lot of talent. I think he’s doing as well as he can with what he’s got.
inwould have hated if the Flames ended up having a coach coach the team to that kind of record. 🤣
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7 hours ago, cross16 said:
Has missed the playoffs in 4 of his last 5 seasons and the Bruins took off after he left.
I see no reason to target him.
their teams haven’t had great talent though. The only reason they ever made the playoffs when Price has been the starter is because of price. So I think it is hard to judge when a Team's lack of success isn’t necessarily always due to coaching.Every coach has failed to win a cup nearly every year.
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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:
Something changed.
They overpass because they aren't used to it.
We went from a good transition team that generated odd man rushes to a slow plodding team.
I don't mind the dump and chase and heavy forechecks, but that's only part of the game.
I don't see the current coach being able to fix the team.
The team responded with a decent record since BP left, but there was nothing left for the team to do but win.
There's been enough practice time and breaks.
We haven't seen any change that has been positive.
What you’re saying at the end there is what I thought. I’d also add that I think they’re winning in spite of their play. They probably deserved a tie/shootout yesterday as Ottawa wasn’t very good either. But it has been a good game followed up with 2 or 3 bad ones, then maybe a good one. They’ve been lucky to get some wins, so the record isn’t due to the coaching, nor the play of the players. It is mostly the goalies that have gotten them in the race for a division spot or the div win.
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I don’t know if it is systems or both or one or the other. When they crowd Johnny they hack and are aggressive on him. Does that change with a different system? I think having Lucic does nothing to really help that considering he could never be in that line. Is Johnny frustrated from the hacks, the 2-3 guys shadowing him, or the lack of help on his RW? Johnny looks frustrated and he doesn’t seem to have room out there.
Really, the team is showing little effort. They look good on every third or fourth game and follow that up with a sleeper.
i think it is a lot of things. Do the players believe in the system? Are they changing enough of the system to get different results?
I guess in a system you need to be robotic and that leaves little to allow emotion? I don’t get it.
a lot is happening and it’s not just one thing. It was what scared me last year when we were winning so much, because they had the history of ending up like this. Plus it usually took nearly two periods to get going and to me that doesn’t scream Cup champs.
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10 hours ago, travel_dude said:
If we want a defensive minded coach, we netter trade at least one D.
We don;t have the horses.
Brodie can still adjust his game.
Gio will do whatever.
Explain to him he hasn;t got the offense anymore and just focus on defending.
Ras, Kylington are most of the way there.
Hanifin is a study in I don't know.
Hamonic is so slow it's painful to watch.
I feel that we had more success when we transitioned fast.
We don;t seem to do that.
No rushes.
we get at least 2 or 3 rushes per game, but most of the time if they pass they pass too much and then either don’t get a shot off or miss the net, or, they go in don’t even look pass and then miss the net.
I think we need some new looks. Maybe Ward hasn’t had the chance to implement something, or what they have done is taking long to take effect. But to me it looks a lot the same. They have looked AHL quality in most nights I’ve watched. I think it is why the Edmonton game was so refreshing.
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I just find that it is a problem if the first unit can’t score the second had very little chance to. It isn’t enough in my mind, especially since we are only 20th, I think I counted right, in the whole league. 6th and 20th is a huge disparity, a huge drop. I think it could be a big reason we aren’t in 1st, although the team play isn’t great either.
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1 minute ago, cross16 said:
I just don’t think In the cap world your going to get 2 very good units. Tough to have that type of depth. I also think pp units need chemistry and anticipation so I’ve never been a big fan of switching it up much.
just my philosophy on it
that’s why I think it is a good idea to just keep the top two lines together for the PPs. The top two players on each line are very good players and will be able to do more with the man advantage, and Dube, Mangiapane, and Backlund, all have good skill so they’d catch on and make good on those separate lines.
just a hunch. I do think that being 6th for a line is really good though. But they must be pretty inconsistent because it doesn’t feel like they score very often on the PP.
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3 hours ago, cross16 said:
maybe for sure i an understand the merits of trying it. I think the debate is what is better 2 good units or 1 great one. Personally I take the 1 great one because if I need a big play or a goal in a key moment i'm going with my best guys anyway, not a 2nd unit.
but the other side has merit too. Don't think there is a right or wrong answer here.
I think make both units good and if the chips are down in the third and you need some goals, you need to overload, do it! But by having the two possibly very good ones, we may not need to overload when you’re trailing?
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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:
Big Save Dave is now a NHL All Star.
Just added to the roster.
I think he deserves more kudos than he’s been given. He had basically kept the Flames in it most of the season. He’s had a few rough games lately, but he’s been really good and mostly the only spark on a team where the team has looked bad two-thirds of the time.-
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1 hour ago, cross16 said:
I will add that the PP critique on Ward is IMO unfair and misguided. The Flames top PP unit ranks 5th in the NHL in terms of goals scored and i believe was top 6 last year too. Their 2nd unit ranks on the lower end which i think speaks more to talent than coaching.
for me, give me a top end unit over 2 avg ones any day of the week.
I just think that you can put a higher end player on the 2nd unit and still have the same effectiveness using one of our supposed high end offensive D on the first unit.
I think a guy like Anderson has a lot more to give in that respect and should be used more often, if not on the first, but every time on the second unit. But I think he has high end abilities to keep the puck alive, has a knack of getting it on net and when we have an empty net, he does a great job of getting us a chance to score with the extra man.
I just don’t think you’re missing as much as you are suggesting by putting all eggs in one basket. If there was more talent on the second unit, wouldn’t it score more and thus getting the team‘a average up? That’s the hope.
i also don’t think that the 2nd unit gets enough zone time. By the time the first unit does a full change the second unit has about 40 seconds to work with and a sloppy zone entry will cut that by 15-20 seconds less as well. I don’t feel the comparisons are very equal, but still not saying they’re even close talent-wise, but really saying more talent is needed on the second unit to make the team overall better on the PP.
I would go
Gaudreau, Monahan, Dube
Giordano, Anderson
Tkachuk, Lindholm, Mangiapane
Hanifin, Ryan
I would keep the two lines together but change the forward maybe on the right side? I feel if they’re already so good offensively then the extra guy should benefit both.
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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:
I absolutely agree about Ward, it is a tough situation. The thing is that Gallant is an elite coach in this league and I just think he is the perfect fit for this team.
I like a lot of the things Ward has done, but there are signs that the players haven't totally bought in either, and that happens a lot when Assistant coaches take over.
I think the team is a mess. Guys aren’t being used properly. The PP is a joke in comparison to where it should be with the guys who play on it. Plus I think they've overloaded the talent which takes away from what the 2nd unit could be.
The PK has been ok, but like our team has been, it can be picked apart and scored on by higher skilled teams and players.id like to see a change. It could be players too. I was optimistic in receiving a high end pick when it looked like we could be falling out. We need one more high end top 6 forward and a high end D.
can we consider Gio a stud? He’s great, but is he really a guy who absolutely shuts other team’s bests down? He did win the Norris, so his D game us great, but is it Pronger, Chara, or Lidstrom or any other D like that? To me it’s not like he completely shuts the door on other teams. Not to take away from him though... just saying maybe another player on the first pair with high ability is needed, especially as a successor.
i just don’t know how much a coach can fix. We know when the team plays they can play, but it’s the fact they don’t get up for most games that make it difficult. It’s what leads me to believe that’s what they are because it is the norm.
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50 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:
our long time core needs to be reset.. Backlund/monahan/brodie/ jankowski/and gautreau
I think the fly-by thay most of our guys do tell a lot about the team and players
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49 minutes ago, conundrumed said:
It's a tough one with goalies.
I think they get success from a specific coach coming up, then have a different coach that wants to see some changes. Then some of the fundamentals they've relied on start slipping enough to have an impact.
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2 minutes ago, WRuCOS said:
Is the sky falling? Or is there light at the end of the tunnel? (Glass half full / half empty)
Western Conference, I thought it showed from the playoffs last year that St. Louis, Colorado and Dallas were going to be tough this year. Outside of Dallas poor start - that has been true. The good news is that Las Vegas (from my view) has been worse than expected and I'm quite shocked to see where they are in the standings right now, tbh.
IF, we can get the 2nd or 3rd seed in the Pacific, two of those central teams will be dead and buried by the beginning of round 3 and the last one standing, will have had to go through one or two of those teams just to get to the Western Conference final (tough series).
As the Flames are currently built, we are in contention and good enough to get into the playoffs. An addition of a player is a must and if they contribute on arrival - we should be a 2nd or 3rd seed. Outside of Vegas, mainly because of Stone, no one scares me in the Pacific, even with the Coyotes getting Hall.
I think Ward has pushed the right buttons since taking over, which mainly has been getting the players back to having fun during practice - I don't know if he will become a HOF coach, but I think the generation of players coming up are different and need more hand-holding and mentorship vs. Iron Mike / Iron Fist. If Tre is able to get a forward or two to bolster the offense, I think its fair to expect Ward wins a round or two in this post-season, if they don't improve the roster, I don't know what Laviollette etc. would be able to do, but I would not be opposed to the attempt at a coach with pedigree coming in to take over this core at the end of the year.
I like this thinking. We have a better chance against our own division than playing a crossover game. We can be seen as somewhat even with the Canucks and Oilers, while a lot here would say we have the upper hand. The Knights and Coyotes could be debated but I see them as a bit better than the other two, and Vegas should have run away with the division.
as much as I’d like to win the division, our best chance at a Ticket to the 2nd round Is probably as a 2/3 spot in our standings.
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3 hours ago, travel_dude said:
The team has disappointed this year for sure.
What I don't get is the hate on for the top players on the team.
Soft, lazy, one-dimensional, no hart, etc., etc.
Justify it with last year's playoff results if you like.
4 players are scoring above .7 p/gp.
The rest of the top 9?
In points:
22 (Ryan), 20 (Backlund), 15 (Mangiapane), 10 (Looch), 6 (Bennett).
Coaching style and getting away from what they did to win last year is hurting the team.
If you want to rebuild, start from the net out.
Rittich is fine, but has gotten into a funk from being overplayed.
No reason to do that if you have any trust at all in the backup.
Defense.
Some of the best games they have played have had good breakouts and good defensive coverage.
Stone is not playing well enough to sit Kylington.
If you aren't going to upgrade with a top 4 D, then play the heck out of him.
Use him with a vet.
(Rant over)
but for me it’s not just the playoffs last year that I was unhappy with. It was the lack of a complete team game from the start of the year to the end of the year. For the whole year only one line was doing most of the scoring. And I actually believe teams weren’t trying as hard in the first half. The second half they had an easier schedule and barely beat teams out of the playoffs to win. It’s easy to cherry-pick stats a year later to point out how great the team was, but for me I think the playoffs are more indicative of what the team is. It has shown off and on this year to be the case. And their efforts haven’t been good unless the games are easy.
i know we disagree. And it’s probably pointless to continue to debate it.
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4 hours ago, tmac70 said:
Flames best candidate for new coach. Cookies, milk and nap time will be also required before every practice, and everyone gets there full pay and bonuses cause they actually came to practice. Never seen an organization where the inmates run the asylum. The problem has been around for years here. I love the conroy story of when Sutter took over in 2004. He basically told Iggy and Conroy if that`s the effort your going to put forth, than just sit here and watch the guys that actually want to play to win. In today's game coached would get fired for implying they are lazy.
I get fired as a fan for being critical of their game a lot of the time. Albeit overthetop at times. I am a bad but good Stallone movie. I felt last year we won in spite of a team that wasn’t running on all cylinders all year, but proved to be problematic in the playoffs when nobody was going. Then it followed through to this year.
some don’t agree that I believe teams have just figured the Flames out and know that if you give some effort you can beat the Flames.
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3 hours ago, Horsman1 said:
we won't be able to sign him on 50 player roster or send him to farm for at least the next 3-5 years.. waste of a pick this year
we''ll lose him to redraft before we can sign him
but a goalie can play in the junior league for possibly two more seasons. Then we lose Gillies and possibly others if they don’t progress.
the Caps and the lightening have been drafting goalies and they have clear #1’s. We don’t have that yet with any of our prospects. We’d still have time to buy the new pick time.
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7 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:
well he looks good but My view is that goalie situation has stabilized for the forseeable future and we have a goalie or two likwe parsons that we will be developing.. we are in desperate need of top 2 line right handed forwards
thinking the 3rd round for a goalie though. We will probably have two of those picks this year with the oils pick coming here
hey it is kipper! -
Are there any players that look good that are undrafted or entering the 2020 draft that are playing in the World Juniors?
There looks like there are a few guys on Canada.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/318885/jaromir-pytlik
I like the look of this guy. He's got size, speed and hands, plus plays in all situations. Could he be a 2nd liner or even a guy like Yelle. He's ranked at 63 for Future Considerations and 27th in ISS.
That sounds like a 2nd rounder for us, possibly a 3rd rounder. Or hopefully we can get another 2nd rounder. Although, we may need to draft a few more D in this one.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/388222/nick-malik
Maybe this guy for JJ? Seems like a good calm goalie with fast reflexes and decent size.
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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:
You can look at it a couple of ways. Smith made a lots of saves in rapid fire but would let in the last one. In other words a lot of rebounds. The killers were two OT goals. Neither was unstoppable. Neither were screened.
So he was good. Sometimes great. But he wasn't the savior. Glad we moved on. And no he wasn't retiring. he wanted the starter spot here and starter money.
I dunno. Blaming a goalie for the Flames playoffs failure is a little I dunno. There’s absolutely no way the Flames should’ve won any of the final 4 games and yet they played their best game in the final game. I blame the players.
I didht like Smith either, but I don’t think it is fair to place the blame on him.
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On 12/23/2019 at 3:30 PM, Heartbreaker said:
That all said, I may have an unpopular opinion. I was really rooting for Mike Smith. I'd hoped that he'd hang up the skates at the end of last year, and stick with the team in some capacity. I really liked having him around. Seemed like a great personality, and may have been able to help out the boys.
Love.
as fans we see things differently. some hate the blame he placed on others. It clouds whatever else he did. Well more, his play was bad for a good while last year.
I played for a team where we won championships, but the goalie would yell at us to get the Blockchainen puck out of the zone and called us a bunch of idiots. He’d praise ya when we did good. You get called out sometimes when making a bad play. Playing hockey is a critical thinking game. You take the good; you take the bad; you take them both and there you have, the facts of life. I am ok with calling guys out. Gotta let guys know when they’re not doing enough. Try harder. Is there enough try harder on the Flames? They’re professional hockey players, it’s going to be public and we see and know what they’re doing. Yet we want guys to be honest in interviews.
I was against smith last year. Then he had a great playoffs. Sure he didn’t win many, but how many goalies were going to win those games against the Avs last year? Possibly, some stolen, but Smith was pretty close to doing that. It would’ve been a Festivus Miracle! I don’t think many goalies would’ve done any better.
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16 minutes ago, conundrumed said:
I was reading an article about Talbot's offseason. He was struggling and went back to an old coach to get back to where he was.
It highlights just how hard it is to be an NHL goalie. You veer, even just a bit, off of what makes you successful and your career is suddenly in jeopardy.
I will admit, I do not think BT understands goaltending. He needs to pass it on to someone else and open the wallet.
From the 3 headed monster to Elliott to Smith, he wants to cheap out on goaltending imho.
I've never thought BT is good at managing the G position. Just constant band-aids that aren't good enough.
I also don’t think that High caliber goalies come available very often. When they do what price can you pay? Some might say sell the farm, while others would say it’s too expensive.
I hated the Elliott trade right away. Just felt the Flames’ system was not to his game and it left him vulnerable. We are/were not the Blues.
Something went wrong with the Bishop trades, possibly the owners. And they also have to agree to signing money to players, and possibly veto deals paying goalies too much.
Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation
in Flames Talk
Posted
Honestly, I thought last year was closer to an aberration than anything. I don't think that they're as bad as they should be this year, but I think that Johnny and Monny had a career year. I think they're closer to 70 point players. There was going to be a fall. The rest of the lineup doesn't have enough to make up for that drop. They're a borderline playoff team. But you're right, if they give better efforts, they probably have a better outcome. Although, I think if they tried more this year, they could be still where they're at, or in first.
I just think that when other teams push it against the Flames, they turtle.