phoenix66

March 4

25 minutes ago, cberg said:

Many seem to believe that "tanking" for a high pick is somehow leading to a "losing" culture in the locker room. I guess having a "winning" non-tanking culture for 35 years (Flames), 25 years (Winnipeg) or 54 years (Vancouver) is deemed as success and is proof that non-tanking works?

Frankly, whether tanking/rebuilding or not, it is extremely hard to win the Stanley Cup, likely the most difficult trophy in major sports today. How many examples of key injuries, a bit of "luck", bad officiating at a critical moment or the "hockey gods/bad bounce" have changed the course of a series?

The Flames are not winning anything with their current team, so let's refill the cupboards now, while keeping remaining players accountable and professional...

Absolutely 💯. There is always luck involved.. too much for it to be a blueprint.

Im all In for a retool. Move out those who don't wanna be here.. keep those that do who contribute.. bring in youth.. let them push the vets and learn from them at the same time .. keep internal competition. Your job is never safe ..losing is never acceptable , it's going to happen but there is never an excuse

Hartley had the right idea but he veered away from it, "always earned never given"

It's clear from the trades he's made .. a player for now..a player who's close ..and some picks to backfill the depth

Every player who has been traded has either asked for it (zadorov and Toffoli) or had the chance and offer to resign right up to the last minute .

We're already seeing the sprouts of it in a way.. everytime someone leaves..it bonds the ones they leave behind even more .. who knew Kadri was a leader ? Good player yes..but a leader?

If you move a guy ..markstrom..Anderson.. anyone who wants to be here and is contributing.. that hurts that mindset you are working to create

March 4

7 hours ago, robrob74 said:

ultimately, if Markstrom wants to be a Flame, let him be. If he wants to win and chase a cup, trade him. Do all of that behind closed doors, and don't talk about it.

And this is basically where I am .. if he asks out , fine... If we get a can't refuse type Offer, then ok.. go to him.. but only when it's in the drawer..nobody is untouchable.. but he has a NMC for a reason..at least we aren't actively shopping him..

But in the end .could be worse ...we could be NJ playing 5x5 with the goalie pulled ..Ottawa where fans are asking to trade Steutzle and Tkachuk..Pittsburgh is about to become the worst team in the league for a good spell . If Sid wants they should ship him to Colorado

March 4

9 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Add to that.....

How many Goalies did we go through after Kipper? Just trying to find one that would work...

Almost as big a search as trying to find Iggy a center he could play with.

And that's another part of it... Everyone is so sure Wolf is the next one . Hope he is , maybe he is .. but make him win the job.. Gibson was supposed to be all that too..

Look at Toronto..imagine if they had a goalie ..

March 4

6 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Great work from his agent if he is pushing him a direction that will get him less money....

He wouldn't be my agent positioning me to get the least amount of offers.

Not really.. the bidding will still happen but he's pushing him to where he has a higher probability of getting the 8th year

March 4

I don't think goaltending will save the Devils anyway 😂

March 4

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

If the GM, getting ready to trade a pending UFA (hanifin) and has to either re-sign Kylington or trade him, hasn't admitted to himself that the season is done, then he has a problem. Before 5 game winning streak, 5 points out. After 5 game winning streak 7 points out. 7-3 probably our best 10 game set. Need 15 wins in 22 games or equivalent to have a real shot at the playoff cutoff.

I doesn't matter how much the team is bought in. They ignore everything else and look to win every game.

We gave up the dream of having a contender every year when we let go of our two actual stars. A goalie that has one or two really good years left is not Kipper. He's 34. We got Kipper when he was like 27.

I've said this many times before ..never quit..it's a mindset .. the players understand, the ones that left . Had to leave .. they left Conroy with no choice ..if anything they probabaly have a chip on their shoulders against those players .. they know they had a choice to stay, and chose to leave ..

Playing to win and refusing to lose are 2 different things

Quitting before the race is over is not a habit you want to instill in your team if you want a winning team ..

And for what ? A higher lottery ticket in a d draft thats being projected after the top 10 or so a first is as good as a second?

And no I'm not saying hes kipper .. I'm saying players like him and kardri etc right now are teaching these kids what it takes when they do get to that level

March 4

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

So think about it this way. NJ needs to improve their G. Can't afford to ruin another season with iffy at best goaltending. In the summer there are teams that can make an offer. They will have clarity on their needs either coming out of the playoffs or missing them. They can go over the cap while they are still dealing. We could still retain salary providing a cushion. Meanwhile this year was cooked with a slim chance of making the playoffs and a GM on the hotseat for not fixing the problem.

Flames coming off a run of 5 wins in a row, mostly thanks to the stellar play of Markstrom and the team getting behind him. We are 7 back of LA. NJ has more teams to vault to get in, but also only has to catch Philly to avoid the WC. They are 7 back of Philly with a game in hand. Not good odds, but they haven't been any better than 500 over the last 10. Neither have the teams they are fighting in the division.

I don't have much belief that NJ would trade for D.

Goaltending is a must sooner than later.

Except .. Flames are not going to throw in the towel..until the race is over..people can hope but need to accept that ain't happening (again.. an offer we can't refuse aside )

Last night was a big lesson on how times have changed. We honerrd a guy who gave us 9 seasons of excellence . By the last couple seasons, we were hot garbage .nobody was clamoring to push him out of town.. upset that he kept us out of the cellar...

We would have understood if he has asked out .. but he never did .. In fact he vetoed a trade that would have given him a chance at a cup that year .. people were actually upset that the trade would have even been made , while at the same time understanding it was a good thing for him..it was more important to him to never wear a different jersey..

Here we have a guy that . Ok BIG longshot .. is attempting to do the same thing ..and fans are upset .. want him gone ..

Anybody else notice the big shot Noodles took at those fans last night ? It was subtle but it was there .. saying how lucky some fans were to see us go from Vernon.. to Kipper ..and "now that guy right over there ..Jacob Markstrom"

March 3

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Oh contrare, it's exactly why they return to negotiations. If Marky is PO'd then you need to deal him if the offer is there. I lean towrads individual deals as opposed to two top assets in one. From a player chemistry perspective, it makes sense, but from a value one it's very hard to construct. One sides usually loses big time. We haven't been the side that wins in multi player deals. The original Lindholm/Hanifin trade was good in some respects but seems to have been the only offer. We lost Fox as part of the deal and we gave up clearly the best asset in Dougie. Not that we would sign Fox, just that we had to include his rights and not deal by itself.

Actually. Forget who exactly.. the coach at the time I think.. made the comment" I went to bed the night before , thinking we were sending Dougie to St Louis" .. so there definitely was offers..

Also.. NJ is in the same spot we are now.. very minimal shot at playoffs ..they've dropped too far .. plus I'm seeing reports they're shopping Toffoli now .. Vancouver very interested.. so they're all but accepting this season is done.. more reason to wait for summer..get more than one team bidding and up the price

If your concern is about him ruining our draft picks.. just think we have one game (I think they'd be silly to play him Thursday against Tampa) of Hanfin left... And that starts an evil gauntlet of a road trip that should all but finish us off

March 3

24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

For what it's worth, Eklund has NJ going hard for both Hanifin and Markstrom.

That would be a very tough deal to swing.

I can't even really guess what a return would look like.

But I will try.

Mercer, Holtz, Bahl and a 1st?

Maybe they toss in Vanacek so next year isn't so expensive?

I would break it down to be Markstrom for 1st + Holtz, Bahl.

Hanifin for Mercer and Vanacek?

The multi-player deals are so hard to work out value.

Never say never ..but I think it would be really hard for Calgary to return to the Markstrom talks before summer ..after all the back and forth and bad looks...but hey if the offer is too good to torn down gotta do what they have to

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

It amazes me that Eklund is still in business. Guy is literally never right and people pay for his stuff

blows my mind

It's like the National Enquirer.. everybody knows it's gossip trash but it makes for good reading lol

March 3

1 minute ago, MP5029 said:

Well if like Backlund, eventually we need to replace Backlund so….Lundell makes a lot of sense for Cgy…but still needs 1st, would a 2026 be worth waiting on?

I'd be Interested in the 2026 first from both Florida teams ...window is closing .. cupboards are bare ..they could be lottery teams ... But only if we get the picks unprotected (not likely.. but that's the only way we should accept them IMO )

March 3

Ok that convo can end now ..lol

March 3

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Unless you move Vladar, what does it say to Markstrom?

$4.5M sitting in the A, you have a prospect, plus you have Vladar signed.

$12M tied up in goalies for longer than this year, not including Wolf.

I think Vladar is gone either way.. either to make way for Wolf or whoever .. but right now you got very little behind Wolf

Markstrom has 2 years left ..as does Knight..Wolf isn't going anywhere unless he plays himself out of contention..

March 3

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don't get why they didn't say what he said last night when it first came out. There are times when being transparent can be beneficial and being transparent here might be that time.

I think this can be attributed to Rookie GM.. I don't think for one second the leak came from Calgary ..but he didn't get ahead of it..

A seasoned gm doesn't even ask the player until a deal is ready to be signed .. no ask , no leak ..all you have is " the devil's have inquired about Markstrom" .. much like Anderson and we saw how fast that died..

Or.. when you speak with the NJ gm , you advise them any leaks and talks are off .. that way you have 2 orgs putting the pressure on agents to keep their mouth shut..

Heard Doug Armstrong in a radio hit the other day..said when he was a rookie he talked deal with Pierre Lacroix ..who said to him " first rule is any leaks and all talks are off and I will never ever do a deal with you in the future either "

March 3

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

We have two replacements for Markstrom right now and need to know what we have.

I don't see why you trade for Knight while you have Markstrom, since that would signal the end.

The noise around the "failed trade" is just noise and I think they are able to get past it.

But that means moving him now or not setting him up to leave this summer.

I think the more likely early outcome if we trade for Knight after moving Markstrom is a three headed monster. WOuld allow us to choose between the 3 and dump the other.

I don't think it would make the Markstrom move imminent . It could signal the end of Vladar possibly.. the goal is to always get better . Adding some competition for Wolf isn't the worst thing .. "too much depth" means you can move pieces for assets . How many times have we been burned by " the next one " in our goalie system .. currently I consider Wolf untouchable so worst case Knight is highly moveable ..

March 3

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'd be fine with Samoskevich. Played with Coronato on the Steel. Still need to add some RHS forwards, one way or another.

Not sure that Knight makes a ton of sense, unless they're trading Markstrom this week. He's an .898 in 36 AHL games this year.

Assuming knight is a return (he's not my top choice ).. he's already in the A . We can just leave thim there ..that gives us all summer to make moves and decisions..

I don't like it ..but after all the garbage I think markstrom is now much more likely to be moved in the summer .. that sets up a possible Knight/Wolf tandem next year which id be ok with if it came to that

March 3

15 hours ago, cross16 said:

IMO this supports what I was saying. I don’t think Markstrom waived nor did ownership nix a deal. he simply didn’t like the emotional roller coaster of being told he might go and then changing course.

what’s interesting about that to me, is the only reason to be upset is if he did actually want to go to NJ

This is why I like Friedman..makes way more sense .

Players ask for NMC first , to obviously have control over where you play.. second , to avoid the garbage of rumors at the deadline..

He got thrust into the fire .. which he never wanted .. gor led to believe it might actually happen..only to then be pulled back out

This is why Big Lou has a no leak policy.. if it hits media ..deals are dead ..

March 3

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

There's no Lundell coming back.

We're probably looking at Knight + 2026 1st.

It will be interesting to see . My gut says at this point now it's going to be underwhelming.. people will whine ...but all we can be certain of is he took the best deal .

I had some respect for hanifin at the start of the season, thought he was playing it up front .. now he's essentially being selfish and hurting the team on the way out .. god riddance..addition by subtraction

March 3

Just now, travel_dude said:

Not quite. 3.35 is the buried penalty.

4.5 is the salary.

It's a huge risk

Thanks .. read that wrong

March 3

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Preferred list is a bunch of speculation of insiders. Maybe his agent leaked it to get that team to up the bid but I tend to think it's someone trying to lower the competition. Nefarious people. Almost like bid rigging. LOL. Ultimately, every TDL deal is a rental. FLA is not the only team to have paid a ton and not re-signed a player. An astute GM gets word from the agent about it, assuming we allow it.

Oh 💯.. believable word out there is it's his agent telling interested teams he will only be a rental .. it's slimy ..yes .. but GM's do it too in UFA .. no way to police it ..

Call an agent. Chat about the weather ..just slip in " hey if is was looking for a RSD this summer .. what the market like on players like that "

March 3

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

As a cap dump, we could consider him. He has term and salary as well as buried penalty.

Not often does a waiver exempt player have a buried penalty.

Having him and Wolf battling it out wouldn help both.

At least on the surface.

But that only makes sense if we have traded Markstrom now.

So, if you are trading Hanifin for Lundell and Knight plus something else, you better have already dealt Markstrom. Which is fine, just not a lot of time. Maybe it's Lundel + Mikkola + Knight. Sounds like a lot but that's how FLA rolls. This isn;t the Tkachuk deal, but it could be as impactful to them. They don't need Mikkola if they get Hanifin. Lundell is a luxury and would be hamstrung with his contract, not so much this coming year, but in the future. Their window is open today. It may be the next 3 years that it starts to close up. Lundell doesn't keep it open longer, at least not by itself.

Yep.. if his head is right I'd love to have a tandem of knight and wolf .. if I'm not mistaken, it was the same draft they came from ..knight was the stud and wolf as too small.. the bury penalty speak of is anything over a million ..anything above stays on your cap. Makes $3.35 so I think that means $2.25 stays on your cap

If Connie is smart..and I don't doubt he is ..he's playing the fact that Florida wants that 8th year as leverage

March 3

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

Maybe it's the process with M-NTC I hate, but this drama is so annoying for all involved. Who cares where he wants to go, he has a list of 8 teams he won't go to. Get the best offer and make the move. Let that team worry about signing him. Roll out the red carpet for him if you want him. Vegas did it for Stone. There's no guarantee that the place he wants to go to the most will re-sign him.

Teams like FLA, BOS, VGK need him now and should pay.

They're definitely not handcuffed on actually moving him.. it's that the word is teams not on his preferred list are now offering garbage essentially cuz they know he's only a rental.. at the end of the day when noon Friday rolls around the best offer wins .. the difficulty is maximizing the return

It's like a game of chicken.. in my opinion Connie wins if he ships him to a bottom feeder and costs him and his agent the 8th year.

Ship him to Arizona for valimaki and a pick If you have to

March 3

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Lundell was huge for them in last year's run. I really doubt they trade him even though he's a former top pick that's blocked on the depth chart.

I haven't been following Spencer Knight but is he so bad that he's been sent to the AHL? If we trade Markstrom, then it would be nice to have some insurance around Wolf (in case he doesn't pan out). From what I know, Knight is low IQ and relies on his angles and being big. But could we develop him into a starter? Maybe he's a piece we should consider.

Don't know the full details but it was connected to mental health issues last year ..they started him there to get him back to form ..

I could see him as a possibility..just not sure what his progress is or if we'd have the option of putting him in the A again..he's likely waiver exempt last year

March 3

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

In some aspects, FLA's window is now. Reinhart going UFA, Forsling, Montour, etc. it's now or never. Hanifin does more for them this Cup run than signing him in the summer.

Absolutely agree.. I'm just agreeing that it should start with a player like Lundell.. their best prospect is considered a 3rd/4th liner at best.. starting with a Lundell would make me ok with a 3rd this year and 2nd next year .or even their 2026 1st ..unprotected

March 3

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The thing about Zito, he goes out and gets what he wants.

The expectation on a Sam Bennett return from many was a 3rd. Zito paid a 2nd and a prospect that was a recent 2nd.

When Tkachuk was going to be traded, he crushed the Canes and Blues offers.

You are correct ..but it comes down to what it's worth to have him now and the ability to give him an 8th year ...and just waiting and getting for free (return wise) in a few months .. that's the only leverage the Flames have with Florida

March 3

39 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I presume you mean Hanifin. Markstrom isn’t going to Florida.

Can set your price all you want but as a pending UFa market will dictate the return and not the flames, unless they are cool with him walking for nothing. That’s the game I’m referring to. How much is Hanifin worth to Florida if they feel they will get him for free in the offseason? What’s he worth if his agents are making it known he won’t sign in other places and thus forcing those teams to lower their offers?

So true ..I've said for a long time they should reinstate compensatory picks for UFA, much like the NFL still has. Lose a player for nothing you get a pick based on the contract they signed . That would alleviate a lot of issues.

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