phoenix66
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Posts posted by phoenix66
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I can watch this all day long on repeat 😂
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This game to me was the perfect example of why tanks don't work...
Look at who showed up tonight...
The "no good " backup
Pospisil
Zary
Dryden freakin Hunt
Pelletier was involved
They took their queues from the leaders like Coleman and Kadri..and played a great game against a supposed cup favourite
The only way to truly tank is to suck the heart out of the players..and when you do you can't put it back..
We just can't , when the time comes , make the mistake of believing we are closer than we are and going all in too early (*cough* overpaying Lance Bouma *cough*)
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1 minute ago, Thebrewcrew said:
If I was a team trading for Tanev, I would want it to be a pure rental. He’s going to get three or four years in UFA. Do I want to be paying Tanev when he’s 37 or 38? Nope.
Right now he’s still playing at a high level. The New England Patriot idea of cutting bait a year early as opposed to a year late still hasn’t really stuck in the NHL. Lots of the GM’s have the mindset “I paid a 30th overall pick, now I’ve gotta extend him”.
Ya to me my gut says it was Ottawa or Arizona ..thoe were the only 2 I've heard in the past as having extension Interest..
Tbh I'd have interest in resigning him for 2 years..maybe 3 to get the aav down.. he's the perfect player to teach the kids what it takes .. just look at what he did for kyllington...
But let's worry about that in the offseason..get the return for now .. I could see it going down right on the 8th.. Connie has a long list of teams willing to give a second..he's playing chicken waiting for a team to blink on a first
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Saw an interesting report yesterday.. apparently one team was given permission to speak with Tanevs team about an extension and talks " didn't go well".. there's a feeling that he will circle back to only Calgary or Vancouver in UFA ..
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11 minutes ago, cross16 said:
And no one is saying do it for the sake of doing it but I think there a middle ground between do nothing and be unrealistic. Your not getting Mercer, Holtz and a 1st that's crazy so your basically saying let's keep Markstrom.
I'm saying find middle ground especially because I don't think his value is going to go up.
From what I believe, the hold up is retention not the value of Markstrom. Hoping they find something workable in the next week.
possibly .. latest word is they haven't had conversations in over 10 days now .. or they somehow found a way to keep it super quiet .. which is possible too .. but retention has its price .. word was the last offer was holtz , a first and another prospect ... but they weren't retaining for that .. needs more ... his cap hit may be 3 but his actual salary is 8 so thats about 8+ mill over 2 years +.. that has a definite price
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1 hour ago, cross16 said:
Other than you've cost yourself a good young player and a pick (maybe more). And if he plays well and the Flames finish 11-14th next year you'll lose that pick to Montreal.
Clearly we won't agree but IMO this is short term thinking for a team that should be thinking long term. Your plan has this franchise repeating the same mistakes they've made in the past. Let's accept what we know now so we can avoid the fear of the unknown.
I don't want to sign up for that personally.
3 years is short term.. thats the stated deadline for this team to be a contender .. and again Im not saying Dont trade him no matter what , just the offer needs to be a home run .. don't trade him for the sake of doing it .
Conroy seems to be of the same mindset, or he'd be a Devil already
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2 minutes ago, cross16 said:
The thing that you still haven't addressed though is Markstrom is 34. So great he's awesome now, but what's he going to be next year or the year after and then he is UFA. Again if we were talking about a goalie in his prime I would get behind what you are saying here but that isn't the case here.
So what i'm saying is in 2 year from now, and as possibly as early as next year you might not have that goalie so let's cash in now. It appears you ar willing to bet against that age curve and that's fine but IMO that is a mistake that Conroy should not make and it's a mistake this franchise has made far, far too often.
The age doesnt concern me at all..hes really only had one bad season out of 4 .. many goalies play great into their late 30's. Love him or hate him but when he was healthy Smith was literally the only reason Edmonton won playoff games .. And at the same time Wolf will be backup next year (he better be ) .. perfect stage to battle for the job .. if he declines as you say then everybody still wins .. if Wolf takes his job , we win .. if it takes to the end of his contract to happen , we win .. and if Wolf doesn't pan out you got 2 years to plan the next step.. In the meantime, the Pelletiers, Zarys, Coronatos etc.. play in a competitive atmosphere and it only makes them better ..maybe by then we wont need a stud goalie.. there is literally no downside to keeping him . moving him for the sake of moving him tells your team its ok to lose ... and the teams who can give us what we really need , high picks , high prospects ..are the teams he likely would not waive for .. he likes Calgary , he doesnt want to leave for another dumpster fire
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7 minutes ago, cross16 said:
If people want to keep Markstrom fine but the question should be, what is this "culture" (I don't agree he is near as key to it but let's say so for the sake of discussion) worth to you?
It is worth a 1st round pick/good young roster player?
it is worth a top 10 pick next year?
It is worth the difference between a top 5 pick this year versus the 10-12th pick?
If Markstrom was in his 20s I can see this being a real point of debate but Flames are moving into a non competitive playoff window for what I think is at least 2 more seasons. To keep a 34 year old goalie going into that cycle and accept the risks I listed above makes zero sense to me.
I think keeping Markstrom past the summer is a mistake. Between this deadline and the summer he needs to be moved.
Like I said ..nobody is untouchable .. but I'd need to be blown away.. new jersey obviously made Craig listen but in the end wasn't enough..
Picks are lottery tickets ..ask Edmonton how 5 first overall picks has worked out ..Toronto has a stud core and still hasnt won anything .. Buffalo still can't win for losing
Go look at Matthews draft year and see how many of the top 10 picks at either busts or have been traded (some multiple times )
The problem with contenders needing a goalie , is they have nothing to give .. late firsts... Mid grade prospects ... What he does for this team is way more valuable ..
And to add . Even without him.. well likely still be too good to be that bad.. as long as you have a kadri that won't quit.. people want wolf so bad ..what if hes as good as they say ?
If I go way back in this thread.. to when kipper and Iggy left us ..when we really kinda were rebuilding to a degree... Will I find you raving about Ramo and Hiller and how great it is they suck and the better picks were going to get ? ..and how great Gibson and Ortio are gonna be when they're ready ? Or will we find page after page about how we need to improve from the net out ?
Like I say.. I'm open to being blown away.. Jerry wants to pony up a first , Mercer and Holtz. I'm listening
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I think last night's game is a perfect example of why you don't trade Markstrom.. sure ok if a team blows you away with a haul nobody is untouchable.. but it highlighted what having a goalie that always gives you the chance to win any game gives you..
Players like kyllington have the ability to take off ..knowing the back end is covered.. players like Pospisil get involved and are motivated to hate to lose .. players like Zary lose their minutes because they are mailing it in.. message received it's not ok...
Right now the chances of them actually Getting in the playoffs are slim and barely above none..but they believe they can and will.. they see him busting his butt back there and it gives them that little extra push to find the next gear..
Winning is a culture that you learn when you know you always have a chance
A lesser goalie , that game is over after the second period .. maybe even before the puck is even dropped
Look at new jersey right now .. they have a contending lineup aside from their goaltender.. and they're getting shelled lately because as soon as they allow that first bad goal you can almost see them give up.. when your star player trashes the goaltending in the press you have a culture problem..
I think it's pretty apparent at this point he's not being moved for the sake of moving him..
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18 hours ago, travel_dude said:
If I see another Forbort suggest I may vomit.
I dont get people's hate on Forbort ... We had a small sample of him here ..but his time there and then seeing him with Winnipeg and now Boston, he steady.. he's physical ..plays a simple effective game.... He's a great 3rd pairing guy.. good on the pk.. only reason Id be against getting him in a trade is he's a UFA
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10 hours ago, The_People1 said:
Sounds like Markstrom waived and Conroy liked the returns from NJD. However, something fell apart when it came to salary retention. Maybe a third team can come in to eat cap. Otherwise, it might be a dead deal.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle .. reports he waived and reports he didnt . I get the sense it never hit that level.. but if nj made a starting offer that peaked Conroy's interest to keep talking I can totally see an informal reach out just to ask " hey. Is NJ a place you'd consider playing " just to guage if there was any point in having the conversation....and then the actual conversation died on the vine ..
Much like how a team calls Calgary and asks if Anderson is available and suddenly " Anderson is on the block " ..
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11 hours ago, cross16 said:
not much. Weak prospect pool and no first rounder for the next 2 years. Even some of the roster players they might give up don’t fit what what the flames are doing. I’m looking at Tanner Jeannot who hasn’t been a good fit, so I could see them be willing to include him but that's not a ton of value for the Flames as he's 26 and UFA in 2 years.
I agree that Tampa doesn't make alot sense. I also don’t see how Tampa can sign him long term. They are already committed to 76 mill next year with no Stamkos and only 16 players.
I don’t see the upside for the flames. Feel like that is Seravelli pushing some kind of message there.
I'm worried we're almost getting roped Into an Iggy like scenario.. who knows how reliable or legit the source is but seravilli Isnt one to make stuff up.. somebody told him this...
If true .. other teams are less likely to go all on if they believe they have no hope of signing him... He'll still fetch a good rental price ..but the lure of resigning him or a sign and trade definitely ups the ante.. now likely only Tampa can do that and they don't have much..and they have the supposed luxury ad well as just waiting til summer to get him for free so you can't even hold them hostage ..
Tho tbh that 2026 first could be a steal if they are in decline but I want more than that
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53 minutes ago, MP5029 said:
Well besides TB there are still
rumours about Hanifin wanting to be in Bos or close to it as well.
some are also suggesting the Nash goalkeeper nabbing Mercer…if that’s the case maybe a blockbuster with NJD?
to NJD
Hanifin
Tanev
Markstrom
to Cgy
2025 1st (conditional on Hanifin reup)mercer
Holtz
Vanecek
maybe this could
work? Heck may even be worth retaining on Markstrom…25%, but if they’d be wanting 50% that would cost 2024 1st
Not bad ..has some merit for sure ... I feel it's lacking something but ..overall good idea ..
Only issue ( and I admit I didnt know this either until the other day ) resigning a player can no longer be a condition in a trade ...so maybe a sign and trade would make that higher
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5 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:
Maybe. Listed as LW on the AHL scoring leaders. Capfriendly too. Maybe there’s some versatility.
Flames should hold out for Poitras though.
Fron what I've read around he's a natural center who can play the wing.. even on the Providence team roster he's listed as Center... When he was was called up for a few games he played 3rd line center
Totally... But actually I want em both
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3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:
My issue with Lysell or Merkulov would be that they are wingers.
I get that they need the best players they can possibly acquire, but between Huberdeau/Coronato/Pelletier/Zary/Coleman/Pospisil. They have a ton of wingers that have term or club control. Sam Honzek is a winger too. That’s not even including the possibility of Sharangovich, Kuzmenko or Mang signing an extension.
I would really like a C or D prospect. The pipeline is thin in those areas.
Merkulov is a center
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6 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:
I would rather not deal with Boston. They're just so thin in picks/prospects.
I would need Poitras to be part of the return, if I was Conroy. Especially because the Bruins would be able to sign Hanifin. Mason Lohrei would be alright too. That said, if not Poitras, I think other teams would outbid BOS.
Actually did some checking .. including Poitras, they have some appealing prospects .
The Russian is intriguing..seems like a load of skill..plays center ... Not to mention would give kuzmenko someone to talk to lol
Id stay away from the college kids for obvious reasons..but I could see some potential for deals here .
Also with Nonis at the actual Bruins games tells me they're talking about a roster player of some kind
https://thehockeywriters.com/boston-bruins-top-10-prospects-2023-24/
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9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:
i don't think people give him enough cred...
This article literally makes the argument he's a mid -sklled goaltender ...
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6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:
Great goaltending can hide a lot of deficiencies but can only win you cups if the rest of the team is developed. Price was wasted in Montreal. Gibson is wasted in Anaheim. Hellibuck is a bit wasted in Winnipeg but at least is a bit better situated compared to the other examples.
Montreal showed what elite D does with elite goaltending, albeit in a weird year, but Weber, even a shell of his former self helped a lot...
but without elite D I think the goalie can only do so much. Look at Detroit with good goalies winning all those cups.
for me, we need to concentrate on elite D. Goaltending can depend on everything else. If the team bleeds too many chances, the goalies are gonna let in some goals.
not saying bad goalies are better to shoot for, just that elite d is still needed as even elite goaltending can look average to good without elite D.
It's true.. any elite area can hide deficiencies in the other .. the last few cup winners like Colorado etc.. have done it with Meh tending ..but they have elite d and forwards..
Edmonton made it to the WCF with elite forward and Talbot playing great .. but crappy D .. last year their d was improved but the goaltending let them down .. on any given night one has to bail out the other .. but all 3 levels need to be capable of it ..
When push comes to shove this year in the playoffs Skinner will be edmontons downfall
And as a side note , Osgood was not very good for Detroit ... But they won because of everything else .. when they had Hasek and Vernon..that was a cheat code
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13 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:
Not surprised there are teams asking about Andersson.
I don’t think the Flames can do that at this point. Andersson and Weegar are the only D with term. They need them right now.
It might make sense to explore at the next TDL, but not right now IMO. Besides I’m not sure this is the draft where you’d want to have as many as four 1st round picks.
I agree.. people are just making clickbait headlines now .. are teams calling about Anderson? Of course they are .. is Conny hanging up the phone ? Probabaly
I agree anybody is on the table with a good offer ..but Anderson is definitely not someone Conroy is dangling to teams right now
Only reason Hanifin is out there is it's obvious he turned down the offer or he'd be off the table too
I think you can even pinpoint the last game of the roadtrip as when he gave his decision..hanifin was a beast on that roadtrip.. suddenly the entire team is mailing it in since theyve been home ..
They can say all the right things but it's obvious the team is playing with the knowledge that he , tanev and likey markstrom are playing their last games waiting for the hammer to fall ... Even Tanev is mailing it in
Nonis has been at the last 3 Bruins games ..I think that's where hanifin is going .. I can sense a sign and trade coming there .. they're poor in picks so that would elevate it to top prospects and roster players
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15 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:
If Markstrom is traded to NJ and Vanecek is part of the return, it might make sense to roll with Vanecek and Vladar.
I think it’s time to see what Wolf can do, but I think I would push that until next season. I think things are going to get pretty ugly down the stretch. They’ve just got blown out by SJ and DET on home ice and that’s before making the three big trades that are expected. I just don’t know if throwing Wolf out there with an AHL blueline is the best thing.
It also helps decide which goalie you want to pair with Wolf. I would buy the odd man out this summer.
I'm resigned now to the fact that Marky is going..Be it at the deadline or offseason... That being said .. the best thing that could happen if we get eliminated early.. give him a run.. get shelled ? You're going back in after watching tape and working with the coach... Repeat ..
As much as he got hung out to dry in that San Jose game he himself was also in bad positon on at least 3 of those goals ..shots come faster with more accuracy .. he needs to experience it and adjust with no pressure.. I believe it will come ..what we mainly saw in that game is he's not ready.. he went back down and stonewalled another ahl team so it's apparent he needs to be up here ..and grow from his mistakes to move ahead . A games are no longer progress anything except his confidence
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15 hours ago, The_People1 said:
Interesting. It's kind of a chicken or the egg thing too. Do Goalies make D look good or do D make goalies look good?
But young D with a young goalie can pay off in the long run if they develop chemistry.
It starts in goal for me too.. a g definitely needs chemistry with d to hit the next level but a good goalie can also hide a lot of mistakes while that's happening.. kipper did it for years.(it's also why TDL deals for goalies usually backfire ..no time ).. Once your d and golaie are all on the same page that buys a cushion for your forwards to start scoring ..play looser Nd not be afraid to make mistakes .. once all 3 are on the same page ..now you're a playoff team ... The quality of those pieces then determines if you're a contender or not
But when mistakes at any of the 3 levels keep ending up in your net.. you crash the whole pyramid
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1 hour ago, cross16 said:
I think at the end of the day what do you want Wolf to do? He's a back to back winner of the top goalie in the AHL so keep him doing there is going to make him develop more?
I think Wolf needs NHL shooters, NHL game, NHL travel etc to see if he has it or not. I don't agree with this notion that the NHL is not a developmental league and you need to come to the NHL fully ready to go That's not feasible and I think it's time that the Flames figure out what wolf can do. If he can't do it, he can't do it but I don't see why keeping him in the AHL for another season or two is going to change that result.
Sounds like a Markstrom trade is more a question of when and not if and I think the time is right. both in terms of the assets the Flames can get and giving Wolf a real shot.
💯 Agree .. he needs to be up and playing on a semi regular basis as a backup to start.. absolutely..
My original point was that most seem to have all the patience in the world and a 10 mile leash on a bad start.. in 7 games he's yet to have a great one...
But Vladar, who I'll say again I'm not calling the 2nd coming of kipper .. has no leash at all..he had had games where he has stood on his head and been spectacular.. but unless he does it every game he's the Antichrist.. he also needs regularity..
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1 hour ago, sak22 said:
Not an expert on waiver priority, but at the time of waivers yesterday Pitt had 2 fewer points but had 3 fewer games played. I had always thought it was standings based, but is it a % based on games played? Either way I was hoping they wouldn't claim unless they tried waiving again to send to the Wranglers.
It's based on actual overall standings I believe ...but even if they did he has to stay on the roster or he gets returned to Washington
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3 minutes ago, sak22 said:
Made sense for them with Guentzel out, neat year for the kid though to play with Ovi, Crosby and Malkin.
So that would say Calgary never put a claim in.. we would have had a higher priority
Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition
in Flames Talk
Posted
I even wonder now if we've seen the last of hanifin... It was widely reported he was Close to signing more than once ... He's playing like a guy that wants to be here ..not mailing it in like Lindholm most of the year
Yes he's apparently indicated he wants to go to market ..so for that reason he has to be moved .. but I truly wonder if that offer hasn't been stuffed in Connie's top drawer for July ( less a year of course ).. go see what the market is and come back and see