cross16

Just to be clear, I'm only interested in Howard if Detroit eats salary. I don't think Detroit can move him at full price so I suspect they will either have to take a contract back, or eat money. If they eat 1.6 of his deal for the remaining 3 years you have Howard for 3.6 for 3 years. You are going to be hard pressed to find a starting goalie who will play for less than 4 these days. Not the number 1 option, but an option IMO.

I think that adjustment has already been made. Neither Kylington or Andersson are truculent, neither are hickey or Mangiapanne. In fact outside of Hunter Smith they rally haven't taken size or truculence over skill in a while.

I don't think Howard has any value and that's why I think you can get him cheap. He hasn't been a decent started for two seasons and other than calgary and Buffalo who is looking for a 5 mill goalie? Detroits going to find a pretty bare market for Howard which is why I think you can probable get Howard with salary retained and not have to give up much.

Unlikely they would and they really shouldn't. Poulin has had chances and hasn't been able to crack the NHL but Ortio hasn't had as many. Plus the Flames have actulaly invested in Ortio whereas Poulin they got for very little of waivers. If you are going by "earned never given" Poulin deserved the shot, but if you are looking at it from the organizations perspective, Ortio was it. I acutally think there is a very reasonable chance that Ramo is done for the year so I think Ortio is going to see some games and it will give the Flames a chance to see what they have and whether or not he's worth a contract.

Not IMO. Keep in mind that the Flames top pick in both 2013 and 2014 are already in the NHL (thus excluded form Button's list) and they didnt have a first round pick last year. Did some quick math on this but here are some rough numbers. Out of the 50 on Buttons list 30 the Flames either had no shot at drafting or they would have had to pass on either Monahan, Bennett or the Hamilton trade in order to take. Mike Reilly signed as a UFA and i blieve the Flames were in on that. 3 players on the list (Theodore, Dickinson,Hartman) were taken after Porier/Klimchuck. Long story short, its pretty reasonable as to why the Flames don't have a prospect on the list. Its mostly full of guys they coudln't draft and only about 10 I would say that they legitimately could have picked but passed on in favor of someone who may not be as good. So when you combine that and then recomember this is a subjective list for 1 person, I don't see it as a big deal. As this list develops and you don't see guys like Hickey, Andersson, Klyington and whoever they take this year on it then get concerend.

Not only that, Ramo has been placed on IR and will fly home to Calgary from Pheonix. Pretty much confirms that this isn't a minor injury but they want to find out more before making that official. Agree, this is it and this actually works out well for the Flames. If Ortio gets some games and doesn't play well I think its very unlikely he'll get a contract offer in the summer.

That one is definetly going to be a race to watch. Still very possible that McDonald become the better prospect, and IMO he has more upside, but I had Demko ahead of him too. In fact that 2nd round might come back to haunt the Flames. They took Hunter Smith and passed on Christian Dvorak (who Button has top 5) as well. It's way too early to tell but I wsan't thrilled with their 2nd round that year and so far its not winning me back. But, real important to remember they got Bennett at 4, Hickey in the 3rd round and Ollas-Mateson (who I think is a legit prospect) in that draft too. Even with a so/so 2nd round the draft has the potetnial to turn out great for the Flames. While I agree it is a bit disspointing I think its also worth pointing out that you've had 2 drafts since then and both those guys were picked in the 20s. When you are putting together a top 50 prospect list for the entire NHL its pretty likely that 2 guys taken in the 20s 3 drafts ago wouldn't be on it just with the new talent. New talent tends to get higher rankings in propsect pool lists done by 3rd parties IMO.

I actually think he might have broken his leg with the way it buckled and how he immediately reached for it and couldn't put any weight on it. I'll be pretty surpised if they get Ramo back even this season, I think that looks like a pretty horrible injury. I have to acquire with rob that i'm not so sure it would be Ortio that would come up, might be Poulin. Only reason to call up Ortio is to give him one more shot at the NHL level but given that he isn't playing well in the A, not sure that is going to happen. A goalie option i've beomcing more intrigued about is JImmy Howard in Detroit. His contract sucks, (3 more years at 5.25/season) but I think you oculd get Detroit to eat part of that. He isn't getting dealt somewhere for full value, and if they ate 1.6 you could have him for 3.6 for 3 years. Thats decent value and you roll the dice that he gets back to the above avg starter level he was just a season or two ago. Worst, case you've got reasonably priced stability in net while you try and develop Gilles so you can bring in a decent backup at sat 2 mill or less and run with 2 goalies.

If Sven Baertschi could have scored 40 goals like Kessell does then yes you allow for certain latitudes. As I said above if you are talking about true first line talents you allow for certain concessions. I think Baertschi looked like a 20-25 goal scorer who had the attitude of a 40 goal scorer and that's not going to fly for any young player trying to make it in the NHL. But if you saw 40 goal potential in Baertschi then we are haivng a different conversation but I never did and I don't think the Flames did either.

If that is your belief, my response is you likely have overrated Baertschi from the start. I don't think he ever had 40 goal potential nor do I think he had slam dunk first line potential so I don't agree that Baertschi was changed becuase the Flames wanted him to play a more reliable game. Its really not that difficult to play a responsible game AND still produce at a high level offensivly so I don't agree you can stiffle a prospects high end ability by trying to get him to play a more responsible game. If you've got enough talent to score 40 goals in the NHL I don't beleive at all thats going to dissapear just because a coach wants you to play more responsibly. Almost all the high end players in the NHL can maintain a high point production and still play a defensivly responsible game. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I don't think you miss out on talent by teaching or reinforcing two way play in an offensive player thats why. My response was to your quote "then draft two way players". If you only drafted two way players you would miss our on guys like Brodie who have offensive talent they just need refinement. You dont' play in the NHL unless you can play two way responsible hockey so I don't agree with the premise that teaching someone defenisve reponsbility changes them as an offensive player so you and I are on different wave lengths there.

By why miss out on talent? Especially when defence can be taught. If the want to only draft two way players Flames would have missed out on Brodie. Brodie had all kinds of offensive upsdie, but part of the reason he dropped was defensive game wasn't up to snuff. Your not going to draft a perfect prospect unless your in the top 5 of the draft and even then it's not a given. You can draft players for certain traits and then work on the rest, you don't have to change a player into someone he is not. Porier can still use his speed but do so in a way that is also responsible and fits into the team game. Funny enough, you mention Baertschi and most Canucks fans will tell you his defensive games is better this year and that allowed him to stay on the ice even though his offence wasn't there yet and now both are clicking. let them play to their stregnths yet, but you have to balance allowing their strenths while working out their weaknesses.

Unless they are top line talents, one dimensional scorers don't last long in the NHL. If you want to stay in the game, you need to be a responsible two way player. Thats a pretty well known fact.

None of the bodled make any sense for you to say they are regressing unless you are just looking at point totals and if that is the case you are missing alot. I've read and herad multiple reports from the Heat that Kylington is gettin better and better as the season has gone on, not worse. Keep in mind this is a player that coudn't stick in the Swedish Elite league last year and now has stuck as a top 5 dman in the AHL. to suggest that isn't progression is pretty silly. Porier - had to take a step back to take 2 forwards. Problem with Porier is people forget he was drafted as a raw project and needed to round out his game. First 14 games of this season = 1 Goal 5 points. Next 23= 7 Goals 16 points and he's on pace to add to his assist total this year which I think is really important. Porier is not going to make the NHL for very long being a one trick pony. Consdiering that both Granlund and Elson have gotten better each year i don't see where you get the idea they are regressing. Look at Granlund's faceoff totals and tell me he isn't getting better. Brosoit took his team to the memorial cup as a Flames prospect. How exactly has he gotten better since they traded him? Keep in mind JJ the fact that guys like Kulak, Elson, or Broissoit are even legit NHL prospects speak to positive devleopment becuase the odds that draft picks that low, or in Elson's case a non draft pick, ever becoming NHL options is very low. The fact that KUlak can play at the NHL and not look entirely out of place speaks to positive development. As i continue to say I think the Flames can get better, but they have a solid development system in place.

I think you can attribute that to the Flames prospect pool more so then Huska. Going into this season I think the only prospect on that team that maybe had top 6 potential was Porier and even then i'm not sold on it. Potential is there but he's a bit more raw but I would add he is actually have a decent season, by all accounts, even if the numbers don't wow you. Flames prospect pool is deep but it lacks high end talent becuae they've already graduated all their high end talent.

Actually they did. When Dejardins scratched him earlier this year he said in reference to him "this isn't the try league, its the get it done league". I have no doubt in my mind that had Baertschi stayed here he would be doing the same thing and nothing the Canucks have done is anything different than what the Flames did/where doing. The only diffrence is the Canucks don't have an idiot GM who tries to flaunt and overrate his drafting abilities like Feaster did. No dbout in my mind that had Sven had stayed in Calgary we'd be in the same spot we are today.

I think the Flames are taking way too much heat for Sven. YOu know what the Canucks did when they acquired him? Sent him to the AHL. He played a whopping 5 games at the NHL level for Vancouver and never topped more then 14 mins of ice time, so never above the 3rd line. You know what they did on one than one occasion this this season? They made him a healthy scratch. HIs Avg ice time this season is just under 13 mins and since his last injury its 15 mins. I'm not going to get into the whole "expectations" thing with Baertschi becuase that's well documented and we don't need to discuss that here. But my point is I don't think you can hold up Baertschi as an example of the Flames development system not working and in fact you could argue the opposite. The Canucks didn't do anything different than the Flames had already been doing with Baertschi.

To be fair, Tom Webster should get the credit for that. Webster was the Flames OHL scout and went to bat for both of those guys. But, to your point and Peeps point I do agree that Sutter takes too much heat for the lack of drafting and developing. He did alot of good things he just stayed too "old school" for too long IMO. Going to be interesting to see if the Flames miss Webster, retired 2 seasons ago, because he was one of their best. Most of their better value picks or UFA signings were OHL guys.

Chicago has no one in their top 6 that they took outside the top 10 and drafted and developed. Remember, the Flames do have 2 of probably the top 10 blueliners in the league that they found and developed. two things I would point out here too: 1- in terms of using the current roster, keep in mind that a majority of the Flames picks have come since 2013 until now. Trying to judge a draft 2 years after the fact isn't fair, you need 4-5 years. 2- Who exactly did the Flames mess up developing? Who went on and has done great things outside of the organization? I think a team likely has devleopment issues if you are constantly seeing players leave the organization, be it trade or whatever, and then go on to have success but that isn't the case which likely means you ahve more of an issue with the draft then development.

Few things for me: Drafting. I beleive, even under Sutter, the Flames have always been "good" at drafting. Not great, but good and have slightly improved in this area although not by leaps and bounds. I would say the Flames are probably a bit above average in terms of their rank within the NHL. I've beaten this point to death on the boards so I won't again, all i'm going to say is the downside to the Sutter years was the constant trading of 2nd rounders and Darryl Sutter exerting control over the 1st round pick. The averaged close to 1.5 NHlers/draft under the Sutter regime despite almost never having a 2nd rounder and constantly missing with their first so its not like they were awful. I think they've gotten better mostly because they expanded on what they are looking for. They are willing to look for smaller/skilled players, they are willing to look at more than just Swedes/Fins internationally and they are willing to go heavier into the US route. They were too narrow minded under Sutter. Development: Again, getting better but this is a tough one because its the chicken/Egg argument. Is it development or is it the player? Wotherspoon is not panning out but IMO thats more player then development as I don't think he was a great draft picks to begin with. From 2003-2011 the Flames have drafted a total of 2219 Games played by draft picks taken outside the top 2 rounds of the draft. For comparison sakes, the Detroit Red Wings have 2309 Game played. So again, clearly the Flames are doing some things right but they do need to be better. So I think they are on the right track but do need to see better results. I think a big problem with the development over the last several years has been a lack of high picks and constant change in the farm team. I think the Flames did some damange to their development process by constantly moving farm teams and especially when they put it in Abbotsford. Those teams in abbotsford relaly lost practice time and IMO thats how you develop at that age you need to work on what you learn from in games. Having stability and more talent in the sytem through more draft picks will give you a better indication in the next 2-3 years where the Flames are with their dvelopment. I think they will be fine personally but let's see where it goes.

There should be no rush at all to sign Ramo nor any discussion past 2 years worth of term. That doesn't mean he won't be back but the Flames should exhaust all opporunities in trade/FA before looking to bring Ramo back. With a weak goalie market in FA and the amoun to teams that acquired starters last year I don't expect a robut market for Ramo. Flames would be best to let him test the waters and see that before committing anythong to him.

True but thinking that if you have a great defence and great team defence will allow you to have success with a mediocre or less than stellar goalie is equally as wrong. You need to have upper end goaltending in this league, I don't care if your D core is good, bad or terrible if you don't have upper end goaltending you will go nowhere. Flames need to be actively seeking better goaltending if they want to contend. I can live with Ramo as a stop gap but he is nothing more than that.

Even when they were losing they were generally still putting that many shots on net and from what i've heard were often the better team. Thats going to happen though when you lose as many goalies as they did and you have a pretty young d core.

Heat are on a nice little run here. 7-2-1 in their last 10 games. Record still not that pretty overal but nice to see them get it turned around a bit. Helps when you finally get goaltending.

Right now he is but I suspect next year he isn't going to get many 1 way deals st that price range. My bet is his next contract is a two way which will pay him much less than 600k