cross16
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Everything posted by cross16
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Big difference in kipper was he proved he could play in the NHL, he just needed someone to stick with him. Berra is 27 and still hasn't proven he can play in the NHL so it's not the same example at all. I get that 27 is a prime age for a goalie but prime indicates they are at their best not a starting point and needing to improve. And Berra was not dominant where he came from, in many seasons he wasn't even the best goalie. I actually don't have that expectation at all. My expectation of a goalie at a minimum is give your team a chance to win every night, and a starter should steak games for you now and then. Berra does not give his team a chance to win and on more then one occasion has cost his team the game. That's an unacceptable standard for an NHL goalie.
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NHL quality goalies don't let in bad goals at the frequency Berra does. I will agree Ramo is an NHL calibre tender, although not sure how good he is/will be, but not Berra. As has mentioned before Berra is 27 so not sure why we should assume he will only get better. I agree with Kehatch and I think the flames should move on from him. Let him go to FA, very unlikely he gets any offers, and if you can't upgrade then you can always sign him later.
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Honestly at this point I'm not even sure if I'd bring Berra back next year. He may have upside but he lets in too many weak goals that arnt related to technique so I'm not sure it's something he can overcome. Is like to see ortio get another game or two but a Ortio/Ramo tandom, pending no upgrades, is an alright option in my opinion.
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Roy is definetly ahead of Brossoit and was not a throw in as some thought. I personally think Brossoit has more upside but it's very debatable as to who actually received the better prospect. Roy was a really nice pickup to maintain the depth in goal IMO.
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Troy ward has mentioned he likes to run very uptempo and hard practices and there are home for the next two weeks or so with lots of days of in between so they'll be working very hard and practicing frequently as they typically don't get that opportunity due to travel schedules. I think Roy is there to keep goalies fresh in practice and for them to see him practice and work at he AHL level as they need to start somewhat of an evaluation process with him being an rfa this year.
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Burke wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't looking for a goalie. Quite frankly with the state of the flames there is no position or area of the organization they shouldn't be looking to upgrade in.
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Ramo has really passed Berra as the flames best option in net. I'm it will be difficult fore Hartley to move past his little project but I think Ramo deserved to get e ball and see if he can run with it. Not impressed by Berra as of late he can't shake giving up bad goals.
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My post wasnt directed at you entirely it was overall thoughts on Gilles as well.
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In Gilles defence I thought he played very well in he tournament. Yesterday against the Russians he was good but not great ands many of the goals the Russians scored he had no chance on. I don't think the big ice was it at and i don't think he needs excuses. He played very well just not extraordinarily well which is fine by me. How many goalies have you seen play extraordinary in this tournament and it mean anything tot he it career? Doesn't change anything IMO that Gilles is a top prospect for the flames. Edit: I'm not making excuses for him but it hink it's worth noting that was not a very good American team they sent this year especially on the backend. Gilles was a big reason they looked so good early on but it caught up to him and them and personally I'm not surprised they are going home. Very different squad then last years.
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I don't think there is anyway Berra gets 4 mill per as a starter I think if he continues on this pace he is looking at 3 mill MAX which is why I don't see the value in negotiating right now. One season of ok starter play which is best case for Berra as it stands right now, doesn't get you 4 mill especially when there are likely to be more NHL proven options available. 4 million puts him in , Cory Schneider, anti niemi and just below Bobrovsky territory and no way is he worth anything close to that.
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I think you wait. I agree with Kehatch while yes the flames goaltending has played better I think we should stop short of saying we shouldn't be looking or that they've found their goalies. These two have been brutal for a month or so and then good for a month or so and you need to see far more consistency IMO before you anoint them as the answer. I personally wouldn't even think about extending Berra unto he plays the full year and shows me what he can do over a full season. Extending a goalie while they are playing well is one of the worst mistakes a GM can make. Berra isn't playing all enough or looking at enough $ in fa that would make you want to sign him right now.
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I'm not blaming them for any losses as this is all part if the process. But if you want to be an NHL starting goalie you have to make those saves and the big saves are key. Backups give them team chances to win while starters win games and that's the change/development both those guys need to make.
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I think both goalies are progressing but the next step is to stop giving up these big goals, most of them not very good ones, and make key saves. That's going to continue to plague this team if either Ramo or Berra can't start coming up with big saves. That's the main think I ask of a goalie. Flames should have won in regulation last night and it's what you need if you want to be a starting goalie at this level.
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I agree you don't hang the loss on Berra. Having said that you need a save there and that's the difference between being just a goalie in the NHL or an NHL goalie. To date, flames have not been getting that type of save.
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Agreed. If you want to preach you are a performance based team you better practice that and this is a great chance to do so. No question Ramo deserves the next start.
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The funny thing with Ramo is he was actually starting to improve before he essentially got benched. Not improving to and exciting degree but enough that as a coach you'd be a bit intrigued. As mentioned though Hartley really has his favorites and it's clear it's Berra. I agree it's a bit ridiculous especially after they gave Ramo the deal they did.
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How is an NHL backup/AHL starter going to fetch you a nice return? Every team has one or two of those.Edit: for the record I'm not necessarily calling Bera that I'm just pointing out a goalie at that level doesn't have trade value unless there is a lot of upside there.
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And that's fine it's just ridiculous to suggest the flames will go nowhere unless they get a goalie better than kipper. Plenty of teams have great success without an elite goalie and the flames can to if the team is built right.
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A goalie is one piece of the puzzle, that's it. Flames could never get he pieces to work around kipper and that was the issue not kipper. Kipper is better than just about every goalie who has won a cup since he became a flame
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I actually think Roy and Brossoit are very comparable. Both are very athletic goaltenders with good ceilings but both seen to lack the intangibles to name them too end goalies. I'd give the edge to Brossoit because he is a bit younger but I think overal the two of then are pretty similar.
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One game in which he got hung out to dry from his team doesn't equal anything.
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Called out he team in front of him saying they needed to play better defensively. That was after the Detroit game too where he lets n there al softer but he seemed to imply he was let down by the guys in front of him.
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I agree as well sure the flames would be in a playoff spot right now with better goaltending but over 82 games has anybody really seen enough t say that with better goaltending they'd have a shot? I sure haven't. My add on to that though Kehatch is IMO the goalie market is ever changing and IMO has the most options available year after year because some come out of nowhere and there are joust so few spots. Guys like victor fasth, niemi, halak, hiller, holtby, bobrovsky, rinne are all guys that pretty much came out of nowhere and they end up saturating the goalie market and providing a lot of options if you are looking for a goalie. So as long as the flames build a solid team on the ice I think finding a starter to hold the fort down is not as difficult as some think. Yes it's hard to get the elite starters but IMO you don't need that to win in the NHL right now.
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I think people are panicking a bit too much with goaltending. Not saying the decision to role the dice with Ramo/Berra/Mac was the right one I just think people are thinking two or three steps ahead that we don t have a goaltender or a set future there and while it's true it's also year one of a rebuild you aren't t suppose to have everything set. Now if the flames plan on giving this plan more than just this season i would agree its time to worry but for not you try this and if it doesn't work there are stop gap options potentially available in fa with Brian Elliot, hiller, vokoun, emery, jiggy etc not to mention you have more than a few teams that are going to need to make some decisions related to goalies overt he next season or two. Need to remember this is a process it's not a quick project.
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Agreed. I agree that there are more than a few guys who are not being put in positions to succeed but Mac is not one of then. He's done his best but he just isn't that good a goalie. Yes I know there are a select few examples that are going to counter act his point, but generally when you are a 30 plus journeymen player there are reasons for it and that is true in macs case. He played as well as you would expect IMO.