cross16

Contract offer or not I'm thinking Ortio heads back overseas in the offseason. His NHL prospects arnt looking too promising and I can't imagine he wants to toll around as an AHL option at less than 100k when he could make a bunch more in Europe. I'd be willing to keep him even with the struggles but I think Europe will be too attractive an option.

I'm torn on the issue. I absolutely hate international ice and think that for the most part, games played on international ice are very boring. Case in point the 2014 Olympics, the quality if play there was just awful. I know Burke isn't proposing that so could something in between help, I'm not sure. I see the positives that if you have an extra for or two on a rush it would be easier to split d or go around d at the blueline. A guy like Bennett comes to mind who right now is trying to enter the neutral zone with speed down the boards but often gets rubbed out. That's gong to be tough to do with an extra few feet of space. However, the downside is how do coaches react. In a league or tournament with so much parity often it comes down to the team that makes the fewest mistakes being the winner. So in return you have coaches who employ a safer game plan to limit their own mistakes and that's why, IMO, you sa the trap become a defensive weapon and why the trap is so popular on international ice. More space means more potential to make a mistake that will hurt you because recovery time is harder. Even with s couple extra feet I could see teams back their teams off st the blueline and actually start giving the blueline because they would rather not be best by outside speed and they'll just take their chances defending their own zone. I'd wanted to see it tested first to see if there is a positive because I would lean towards it actually being a negative and not a positive. Either way it's not going to happen anytime soon. Not alone would the vast majority of the NHL have to adapt their rinks so would junior hockey, AHL, and probably NCAA. Your taking a massive expense and massive undertaking I can't see happening.

I agree the city should clean up the mess and I also support them building a fieldhouse. I would support the City paying the cost to clean it up so the land is ready for use and I would support them contributing the money to the field house (200million or so I believe). After that I think the Flames need to find other means for the rest but I think thats a fair framework to start working around.

Not exactly Flames news but one that could relate. Oilers signed Cam Talbot to a 3 year deal worth 12.5 million or a 4.17 Million cap hit. Gives you a good indication of what Ramo could/should get should he wind up being the Flames starter. He'll have more NHL stats than Talbot did. Edit: Not to mention removes one of the few potential options that was available. As it stands now outside of maybe James Reimer, Kari Ramo is probably the best FA option in the nets come the offseason. The rest of the UFA crop is aging vets who are playing poorly (Cam Ward) and a bunch of backups that maybe have potential but are high risks to give a starting job to (Stalock, Khudobin,Chad Johnson, Raanta, Enoth etc).

For those asking for a retracable roof I think its worth pointing out that according to King it would add, approximately, 150-200million to the cost of the project. Considering this is going to be a hard sell at 890 million I think its an absolute no good at over 1 billion dollars. A translucent roof is a pretty good compromise.

Not that I would question the idea that Detroit drafts well, but mark Howe is their director of pro scouting and would have little to no input on the draft process. In a cap world, being a hard negotiator is a necessity because every dollar is precious and if you start overpaying everyone you'll wind up in trouble in a hurry. I thought we still need to see Trelivings work to be able to comment on what type of scout he is but the results were solid in Phoenix and have been solid here too so far. Not to mention I think the whole idea of a master scout is a bit of a unicorn. Even the best scouts will statistically be wrong more than then are right if you criteria is who makes the NHL. They aren't perfect but I think it's time the flames got more credit for their scouting. As it stands right now their star player and one of their best dman were 4th round picks, their captain was undrafted and a 5th round pick is on their top line. Need more yes but they are not as bad as some think.

I would have to agree and if it were me I would go Hiller against the Oilers. I think he deserves it and I think Ramo could also use the day off. Unless Hiller plays unreal then you go back to Ramo as your starter. Edit: Hiller is in against the Oil.

Well keep in mind the current downtown Library was built in the 60s and only now being replaced so quite frankily 2 decades is way off and having met with people that run the Library downtown it gets alot more use than you think. Very popular meeting space for business' or organization that don't have their own space. The new Library will also cater to exactly that and not be your traditional books on shelves. With the Stoney trail example one thing to keep in mind is the ongoing construction and maitenance of the road also equals jobs. While there is ongoing and renovations to a private building yes I think over the grand scheme of things a project such as Stoney has a much more significant impact on employment than a private building like the arean would. But we are splitting areas becasue at the end of the day People I do agree you can't measure it by ROI and I agree. At the end of the day the only issue for me with this new building is I dont' think its a smart move right now for the city to spend upwards of 600 million or more on it. I have no doubt they can I just don't consider it smart money and as a taxpayer and someone who fully plans on using it I woudn't support the amount of money. AT probably half of that, I would be more supportive as a taxpayer.

I agree with your premise that you should not measure a government or governement projects based on a ROI or how much $ they are going to make off of it. Stoney is a good example as if the new library. I would wager tha less than 40% of Calgarians will use to new library at 170Million plus the city is spending on it so looking at it form a strict ROI perspective its not a great investment but that doens't mean it shoudn't be built. As Cheers just said a goal of any city has to be to provide the highest quality of life to its citizens and that requires building roads and libraries that they won't get their money back on but boost the overal city to warrant new people moving there and increases in tax breaks. That I all agree with it and thats why I think some public money should, and despite Nenshi's stance will, go into this project. However, its the amount and the time frame that has to be considered. Typically an arena/stadium as a 30 ish year life span to it and then through be it inovation or demand needs to be replaced. The money being spent on Stoney Trail or the Library is going to last for a heck of alot more than 30 years. So 500-600 million or more for a project that will benefit this city for maybe the next 30 years makes it hard to compare this project to someone like Stoney or a new library that will in all likelihood service Calgarians for 50 years or more. I also think a city that is well designed from a traffic perspective has more postivie impact on migration that one that has professional sport teams or world class facilities so again i think its tough to compare the two. I do think however, Calgary should have world class facilites and thats why I do want this project built I jsut want a different funding model that's all.

Agree to a point, but keep in mind the NDP has already said they are going to have to delay certain projects and infastructure funding programs because they were out to lunch on their projections for Oil. So while yes they have claimed they want to be environmentally friendly they've also promised they won't exceed certain spending limits and commitments and given they are going to delay some I can't imagine where a few hundred million are lying around to give to a private enterprise. What they could do is cancel the 178$ million dollar corporate giveaway that is the job creation tax credit and then funnel into a project such as this that would probably be more successful of creating net new jobs than that program is going to be. As I typed this, this hit the Herald that every project and spending commitment will be reviewed by NDP http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/alberta-politics/every+project+table+alberta+2016+budget+prices+continue/11646946/story.html Safe to say you can peg the chances of getting a dollar out of the NDP as close to zero as you feel comfortable doing so. Ken King waiting on this project for as long as he did is likely going to cost the Flames big becuase I can't see any level of governemtn anxious to hand over money or sell this to voters in the next year. I think they are either going to have to kick in alot more money or wait for things to rebound.

They've already confirmed as part of the proposal that the City will own the structure and Flames will lease from them.

LIke any CEO its his job to move his business forward and create more opporutnity. New arena means move revenue for the Flames and now due to revenue sharing, more Flames $ equals more NHL $. He is part of the Flames PR campagin to build up public interest and put pressure on City council to write them a cheque.

Agreed that the twitter battle doesn't need to happen. He had his press conference and I thought everything he said in the press conference was sufficient and there was no need to take it to twitter that I agree with. However, I do respect where Nenshi is coming from because he is the one being attacked not the Flames. The City isn't running a campaign against Calgary Next, but the Flames are running one for it (as they should) and really are laying the blame right at Nenshi/council's door. Consdiering that to date the Flames have not given him a complete proposal, we don't know what the cost it and we won't until April/May I can understand why Nenshi is getting his back up a bit becaues he is having this layed at a his door when to date he has done what is necessary to move the project. Until that remediation report comes back there is really nothing to do. Really the Flames should never have started a public ad campagin until they had a full proposal and knew all the costs. But I do agree, he took it too far but thats Nenshi. Part of the reason I"m not a fan is because of his need to sensationalize things on social media and i'm not a huge fan of any public servant doing that. I also agree there will be public money in there and i'm fine with that but i'm not fine with public money footing ove 50% of the bill especially at a time when the city is not flush with cash. I dispute this notion that now is the prefect time to build becuase costs are down and we need jobs. I agree with that, but with most pepole in Calgary tight financially and the city tight financially I don't think its a good time to commit to an over 500million bill that no one would see as a smart investment. Your robbing Peter to pay Paul so I think overal the net benefit is not overly large.

And hang taxpayers with a 500 million or more bill at a time when our tax rates have gone up over 50% in the last 5-7 years? I don't think anyone disagrees that need for a new building its about funding and until we know the cost, which by the way Bettman doesn't even know because the flames did a poor job handling this, I don't think we can agre this is a good time. Report on the remediation comes back in April/May and then they can discuss it because they will know the costs. While I agree Nenshi's got a bit childish the point he was trying to make is why are we having a public debate when a full proposal hasn't been submitted and IMO he's right.

I don't love Nenshi's response either but that is his style he is going to build his persona through the media and his wit but I agree with JTech that King and Bettman have really back him into a corner. You can't really have a debate until you know all the costs and the flames submitted a half checking from behind proposal without th full cost outlined. Until that remediation study is done there is really no point of having a debate because that number could change the whole landscape. Then you have the flames and Bettman coming out and threatening the fan base by saying we need a new arena or else w are going to lose our team, all star game, draft etc. I thought it was really classless of Bettman and the flames to stoop to that level especially considering that it was them that has sat on this proposal for years now and only recently unveiled it and did so without even all the facts necessary to have a discussion about. Quite frankly, Ken king has mismanaged this whole situation from the word go. Very poor job on his part and then he brings in his hired gun to amp up he pressure. BS IMO.

To be fair, thats more Linden's doing than Benning. at a fan forum in the summer he said higgins was on the trade block and it got our to reports so the point where not the organization had to confirm and it was Gilles not Benning that signed Higgins in the first place. I prefer Treliving too but Benning is not totally to blame there and has done some nice things. Lots of solid young talent starting to emerge there some of which he drafed or acquired.

Confirmed Ramo will start tonight. No effects from that shot apparantly.

Can't find the tweet to link but Treliving apparently has already said Ramo is fine.

Ortio has always been inconsistent. The problem has been when he's been on he's been REALLY on and plays like one of the best young goalies in the A but when he is off he's below avg. he's never been able to date, to find that happy medium. Not to say he can't but until he does I don't think he'l be an NHL option.

Ramo had no chance in the stamkos goal. That took a wicked bounce off the board right to a wide open stamkos. Would have taken an unbelievable save to stop that. I was as there and the puck shot off the boards right to Stamkos.

I think there are always ups and downs to development. For years the Russians could never develop goalies or goaltending and now suddnely they seem to be turning out top prospects every couple of years. Fins were starting to beocme a facotry for goaltending and now that has dried up too. Ups and downs IMO and it tends to balance itself out. Obviously something you want to keep an eye on and make sure you don't fall behind but don't panic or overreact either.

Again if you don't want to pay attention to the facts then fine but the reality is if there was no expansion draft they almost certianly don't trade Jiggy, but believe what you want. It was either protect Jiggy, who at the time was not an NHL goalie and you backup that up in your post, or lose their starter at the time in Braithwaite who was an above avg starter.

Please do, becuase so far everytime you want to bring up goaltending you repeat the story about Jiggy. And of cousre you leave out the fact that the Flames didn't exactly give up on him. They traded him becuase they were going to lose him in the expansion draft. He wasn't ready for NHL duty and you could only protect 1 goalie (or 2 goalies but then you could protect less D/F) so they protected Freddy Braithwaite, their starter at time time, and dealt Jiggy rather than lose him for nothing. You also leave out how you know the Flames took an unkown and unproven 3rd string goalie in SJ but why ignore something that doens't support your point right? And again no one is disputing the Flames can get better nor have I read very many places that say Ortio is done or a right off. People are questioning his upside but not one is saying he is done as a goalie jsut that HE needs to be better if he wants to be in the NHL.

Its not a one or the other scenario though. You imply that the Flames have drafted or brought in some really good goalies and then failed to develop them and others are countering by saying its difficult and you ahve to look at the individual propsects too. Both are right, but you don't come across that way. LIke others have said, you make it seem really easy to develop a goalie but the reality is most organizations struggle with this. Who has Anaheim ever brought along and developed? Gibson is really the only one and its too early to say they've "succeed" there.What about Arizona/Phoenix? Colorado? Columbus? Dallas? Minnisota? Islanders? Philly? St Louis? Tampa Bay? I don't dispute the notion that the Flames need to be better at developing goalies and actually I would say they need to get better at development period. But having said that, just about every team in the NHL does so don't act like this is primarily a Flames issues. Goalies are just really, really tough to develop.

I'm not saying they won't get it, i'm saying that what they have proposed won't fly and most business people i've spoken with think they are out to lunch with what they proposed. They'll get it, but I think it may be a different proposal all together or if its the same one the Flames are likely going to have to kick in a lot more of the funds for it. Nenshi is in favor of the Olympics becuase he knows if they got the Olympic there would be a bunch of Federal and Provincial dollars flowing in for his city. He doesn't like this proposal because he knows he has to spend part of his own budget to do it and isn't going to get any help.