bosn111

Habs beat the Oilers, now an 8 point difference with Montreal still having a game in hand. Any hope of the playoffs are quickly fading. How long until we see players getting shutdown due to “nagging injuries” as the Flames admit the playoffs are out of reach? And who has been playing hurt and for how long?

Looks like the next 3 games, all against the Habs, could decide the Flames playoff dreams. 11 games remaining, 6 points back. A sweep of the next 3 games would tie up the points and make things very tight. Lose all 3 and they would be 12 points back with 8 remaining including 2 Oilers and 1 Jets game. Could essentially make the Canucks games moot.

Updated the main post

Flames win, but Habs won yesterday. Only change therefore is games remaining.

I wouldn’t put any kind of prediction on Heineman at this time. There simply isn’t enough data for a proper prediction. The run Valimaki had to start the year overseas didn’t translate to the NHL. Whether that is ice size, role, team mates, we don’t know. Will his offence translate? Don’t know, but even if he ends up as a middle 6 winger that provides energy and possession on a reasonable contract then the trade is a win, Teams always need a Chris Clark, Chris Higgins, Josh Jooris, Eric Nystrom types, as long as they don’t think they deserve more money and a bigger role than what they provide. If he can provide the role of a Nystrom type without the same ending, then he can be just fine. If he ends up better, great. Point is that Bennett wasn’t having super success here, so if Heineman can be equivalent at lower cost, then the trade is a win. Especially with the draft upgrade from 6 to 2.

Habs lose, Flames win, one step at a time.

Flames lose, Habs win. Playoff chances take a hit.

I agree, no need to pick up more depth on waivers. Flames need to clear cap space if they want to make any kind of move. Taking on more cap for nothing is pointless.

As the 2020 2021 season is making its way towards the trade deadline, I thought I would create this thread for information purposes. I will try to keep it updated. Versus. Wins. Losses. Remain. Outcome Oilers. 4 6 0. Lost Nucks. 7 3 0. Won Jets. 3. 6 0. Lost Leafs. 3. 6 0. Lost Habs. 6. 3 0 Won Sens. 3. 6 0 Lost So far only one 1 season series win with a second still in the balance. Even if we slide into the playoffs, this doesn’t bode well. Team. Points. GR. MaxPts. In/Out Leafs. 76 0 76 In #1 Oilers. 72 0 72. In #2 Jets. 63 0 63 In #3 Canadiens. 58 0 58 In #4 Flames. 55. 0. 55. Out #5 Senators. 51 0 51 Out #6 Canucks. 50 0. 50 Out #7 Final.

Sounds like a reclamation project. Talented player, suffered injury and missed time. Inconsistent play. Could he do better than Leivo, Simon, Nordstrom, Lucic? At best he would slot into 3rd line and there are questions around his D-zone. Being an upcoming RFA, could be worth the risk, but I really don’t know. Sounds like even if he clears, could be a cheap trade option. Likely better to trade for him to clear contract / cap space in return. Plus if he clears waivers first he can be taxi squad through quarantine plus. Wouldn’t say no to waivers, but likely not worth it to lose waiver position just in case someone better gets waived in the next 2 weeks.

Lucic and Markstrom have full NMC. Unless they choose to waive, they can’t be moved. I know Lucic is overpaid, but he brings physical play that most of the team lacks plus veteran leadership. For those who keep suggesting we move Lucic, it 99% won’t happen. Especially since he is a Sutter type player. Backlund has a full NTC so for those calling for him to be traded, not likely to happen. He would need to waive also, and that is unlikely at best. Monahan has a modified NMC, kicked in this summer so we missed the boat there. Giordano has a modified NTC so both are difficult to move, though possible. Gaudreau would need to be moved before July 1 because he has an upcoming modified NMC. Ryan and Rittich are only trade fodder due to cap. Both play solid roles, just cost too much. No need to move either of Mangiapane or Dube at this time. Both are on very reasonable contracts, both are hard nosed players. They may never be top line, but both are solid middle 6. Size is less of an issue with these 2. Don’t forget that Ty Domi was only 5’8 and fought guys like Pronger. While I wouldn’t call either Domi tough, they play closer to his style than to Gaudreau style. I would say both have Gallagher type potential. Leivo, Simon, Rinaldo, Petrovic, Nesterov and Nordstrom can all be moved easily though for little return. They are all pieces that work during Covid with a taxi squad, but none have shown enough to be on the roster full time, and the team isn’t making it hard for someone willing to grab a spot if they can prove they deserve it (Mangiapane). Giordano may be left exposed during the expansion draft for 2 reasons. 1 he has a Modified NTC not a NMC. Expansion is not a trade so it may be a loophole. With his higher cap hit, Seattle may steer clear. If Seattle does take him, that is big cap space cleared. With only 23 games remaining, Flames are 4 points back of Montreal and the Habs have 2 games in hand. We play them 5 times in those games. Flames are also behind Vancouver with 4 more head to head. If Calgary loses this afternoon, Ottawa wins the season series against the Flames. Oilers have owned the Flames this year and 4 more matchups to go. I am not seeing enough from the Flames to think they will make the playoffs, and if they do, they likely won’t go far. Trades in season won’t change that due to cross border quarantine. Teams in Canada won’t be making big trades to help each other out in season, maybe little change of scenery type moves, but that’s it. Cross border not likely to get more than picks or prospects unless trading with other teams likely to miss playoffs. There are few players I think the Flames should be guaranteed to keep / protect: Markstrom / Tanev both new signings and playing very well Hanifin / Andersson / Valimaki all young D still growing and playing well, especially Hanifin. Lindholm / Mangiapane / Dube young developing talent Lucic can’t likely be moved anyways so keep the leadership. While I like Tkachuk, he has disappeared this season either due to leadership on the team or injury. If the team could use him right now to get a big pay day, I would be ok with it. If trades could be made, in my opinion, they would need to look at specific roles rather than players. Based on what can and likely can’t happen trade wise, the team going into the summer could look like: ?? Lindholm ?? Mangiapane Backlund?? Lucic ?? Dube ?? ?? ?? ?? Hanifin Tanev ?? Andersson Valimaki ?? ?? Markstrom ?? So trades would be looking at 1LW, 1RW, 2RW, 2LD, 3C, 4th line and Backup G. Not a full rebuild, but a retool for sure. Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk likely see the biggest returns. Possibly fill the 3 top 6 wing holes? Depending on who we get in trade would affect cap space and how to fill remaining positions. Just my thoughts.

With Markstrom, Tanev, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund (He has a NTC), and with the way Mangiapane, Hanifin and Andersson have been stepping up, I would say that the rebuild is nearly complete. As stated in the trade thread, the only player left fro 4 years ago if we trade Giordano, Gaudreau and Monahan would be Backlund. Are there pieces that we still need? Absolutely. But being willing to move the big 3 would likely help with some of those issues. Doesn’t require a tank, but accept a lesser season or 2.

I apologize in advance for biting on to the inflammatory post, but I must combat disinformation as it is honestly part of my job. Firstly, CalgarySTL, the only person talking about deleting your post is you, it is still there. Second, if you start by saying “this will likely get deleted” you realize what your saying is controversial at best, blatantly wrong at worst so you probably shouldn’t post it which you already realize by starting off your post in that way. Third, you were asked to take this discussion elsewhere as it is not relevant to the discussion thread. Others tried to bring the topic back on track and you chose to hijack it again. Therefore one must conclude that you are either a: ignorant, b: a troll. Fourth, listening to talking heads on the internet does not equate to them telling the truth. This is evident with many so called hockey insiders who claim a trade is imminent and they were completely wrong. The same is with your apparent sources. US CDC does not in fact claim 90% false positives, I actually looked at their site. I also looked at multiple other health sites including the US National Library of Medicine/ National institute of Health, Harvard Medicine and MIT where the highest I found was 4% false infectious positives while total false positives ranged from 0.5% to 0.8%. Whereas false negatives were between 25 and 33%. A far cry from your claims. The false positives are a concern for the Antigen tests, not the PCR tests. The Canadian CDC does not use antigen tests as they only indicate if you may have had it in the past, not ongoing. The PCR tests look at the DNA of the virus and therefore it is not confused with other possibilities. The only false positives come from possible cross contamination in a lab which is minimal at worst. Finally let us get back once again to the discussion thread about a possible Canadian division and the impact this could have on AHL teams. I am not sure about a taxi squad system. This causes other issues around cost, transportation and all that. Issues would arise where unless you have a significant number, you could need all of them due to injury and/or illness and be stuck with not having a taxi squad anymore. Also a taxi squad could be seen as cap circumvention, such as putting Lucic on the TS so he doesn’t count against the cap. I like the idea of AHL teams travelling with their parent club. This provides for better learning opportunities for the farmhands, keeps track of the players better and eliminates the need for isolation of players when they get called up. Most major cities have multiple arenas that could be used by AHL and junior teams, especially if no, or limited, fans in attendance. As to which teams are the best in Canada, on paper I would say Toronto but we have seen their lack of success over the past few years and they haven’t really filled their holes. Calgary hasn’t fixed all their holes but they added to defensive play with Markstrom and Tanev. They lost little offence but didn’t really add either. It really depends if they show up but should be near the top. Edmonton has McDavid and Draisital so should not be overlooked. That said, they are aging poorly in net, lacking in D and so if they can’t overpower other teams with offence, they won’t go anywhere fast. Vancouver is maturing but can they overcome the loss of Markstrom, Tanev and Toffoli? I think some players step up their game but not ready to really contend YET. In 3-4 years I think they will be knocking on the door. Winnipeg really depends on injuries and Laine. Also can goaltending stay great. Montreal is a question mark as well with no answer. Not sure they added enough to really make any noise this coming season. Ottawa.... do I need to say much more than a couple good players does not a competitor make. I guess we will see how it all rolls out.

I have said this in a number of threads and I will say it again here. Why the insistence on trading Hanifin? Valimaki has all of 26 games of sheltered NHL experience. He has all of 6 points in the NHL and is coming off a serious injury. Should he be in the NHL? The answer is most likely yes. Has he proven that he is better than Hanifin? Not even close. Kylington is not better than Hanifin and has not earned enough trust from coaches to be a full time player let alone the GM who got 2 D men at the TDL to play instead of him. Hanifin signed a very team friendly contract for solid term and can handle top 4 just fine. If Valimaki proves to be better next season, Hanifin will still be easy to move. Even then, if Hanifin improves, Valimaki shows solid then maybe Giordano is odd man out. There is no reason to move Hanifin, even for a RW unless there is a guarantee you can replace him internally. At this time there is a hope, but no guarantee. Don’t forget, Hanifin is only 23 and his prime years are still ahead. There are other players who can be moved that are more easily covered, even in UFA than a proven top 4 D in order to save cap. Ryan or Bennett (3/4 C at 3.1 and 2.5 million respectively) are easier replaced. I don’t believe moving Bennett is correct because finally being in a position he is comfortable with, I believe he will show improvement this year, but 3/4 C is easier to replace than top 4 D. Moving Hanifin now would be bad asset management. Wait until Valimaki proves himself, then consider whether you trade Hanifin or Giordano, not before.

Cherry said a lot more than just "you people". The biggest issue around the whole Don Cherry firing is that people are focused on those two words and not the remainder of what was said. He I fact said "You people, who come here, and enjoy our milk and honey"... It is the whole "you people, who come here" which showed it as being about immigrants, not just the "you people". People who have focused on the simply "you people" are those who have only read the stories and did not see the actual clip. As for what Treliving said, he was far more general and was in fact likely referring to the media as "you people" as there was no further indication of who he was directing the comment at (In fact having watched the clip, I believe he nodded his head towards the media as he spoke those words.).

With Zag being sent to AHL today, it will be interesting to see what happens with Gilles. Why he was kept up over Zag with the way he has played I don't REALLY understand. The only reason I see is that with the Stockton camp open now, they want him to get into a rhythm and be ready to be their starter. The only reason I can think of for Gilles to be kept around any longer is they are looking to trade him. He hasn't earned extra playing time, but I guess he needs to be waived, so maybe trying to make sure others teams don't have space to pick him up off waivers. Don't want to lose him for nothing I guess.

It looks like McElhinney is also testing the FA market. He would be fine as a backup and if Gilles or Zagidullin beat him out at camp, then he could be waived, likely claimed by another team and therefore no cap hit. Unless the Flames are going after a true Starter to be the starter with BSD as backup, then I would rather look at a short term 1b / 2 goalie to let Rittich see what he can really do and see what we really have in our prospects.

While there have been a number of unsigned FA's and international players picked up by various teams, including the Flames, there are more that never panned out than ever did. Being given chances isn't necessarily the problem. Some players simply do better in the European leagues and on international ice where there is more space. Some leagues are based more on skill and less on hitting etc. There could be a difference in D and goalie skill in other leagues that shows inflated offensive stats. I don't really know what the full reasons are, but some players simply do better elsewhere. Calgary has signed a few high profile internationals in recent times, and they didn't really work out even when given full opportunity for success. Examples like Ramo (2013 - 2016, yes we traded for his rights but he had never played NHL prior to playing for the Flames), Cervenka was highly touted and never panned out, even with playing top 6. On the other hand, Giordano was undrafted and turned out very well. I guess we will see if any of these guys turn out.

FF will be missed. He often had terrific insights into hockey in general and specific other teams.

I have an issue with drafting over agers high, unless there is simply no one projecting better. The point that they have filled out compared too the younger guys in their first draft and the fact that they simply have more experience means they are closer to reaching their ceiling. If there are similar players who are younger (first go round) then they should be drafted first because in theory they have more growth still. If a player has already been passed over twice in the draft, it is unlikely they get drafted high. I would likely be looking at D in general for the draft. A late round Goalie (unless there is a great one available earlier) will likely be needed in a few years so a good time to draft. With Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki all proving NHL ready this season, the D pool for the Heat is light at best. Valimaki, Valliev and Healy are the only 3 prospects who are not currently regulars for the Flames who have a shot at really moving up in the system. Healey is quickly falling down the charts as the other 2 are above him and with Hanifin, Kylington, Valimaki already NHL ready and young, unless cap issues arise, I see little room for high skilled D on the Left side. Using Lower picks to grab LD to fill out the minors in the future is fine, though grabbing a better one to have as potential replacement for trades helps too. Andersson, Hamonic and Fantenberg are a decent trifecta on the right side making Brodie traceable at the draft / offseason. This however leaves the cupboards bare for RSD prospects. As for RW, we currently have Eetu Tuulola and D'Artagnan Joly as RW prospects, both are doing well in their respective leagues. That does not mean we can't add if there is an obvious improvement available. Leason may in fact be an improvement over what we have, but again, the overage thing comes into play. I will leave drafting to the pros.

I find this discussion interesting in general. The discussion of specific needs based on what we have in the, the thought about what future needs may be. Where we should go with drafting and even looking at what has been drafted. Those people who say we do not currently have replacements for Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk etc. in the system already are correct, though none of those 3 ever played in the AHL. They all jumped immediately to the NHL. That being said, we do have similar players to some of them already drafted. DOn't forget, Johnny played multiple years in the NCAA before joining the Flames. In Juniors still, we currently have 3 players (2 Cs and a LW) who are at least 1 PPG players as of a few days ago. Zavgorodniy, a LW who got a long look in pre-season, has 39 points in 31 games. This bodes well for the future. In the USHL, Pospisil is closer to 2 PPG with 32 in 19. Pettersen (Centre) in NCAA is over 1 PPG. Both Quine and Mangiapane (both currently with the big club) are over 1ppg in the AHL this season. Dube is 1 PPG in 4 games with the Heat. Basically, the Flames do have some quality coming up in the pipeline. The prospects have potential, and they could very well add a lot to the team in the future. Not all will pan out, not all will make the NHL, some will play for other teams and maybe do well. The point is, the Flames have definitely improved drafting, I would say that development has improved (Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane, Rittich, Lomberg, Ollas-Mattson etc.) and will hopefully continue. Sometimes developing a player means letting other groups work more with them before bringing them to the system, such as letting stay in Junior longer, playing in Europe or NCAA etc. Sometimes it is simply choosing to put them somewhere to have success and grow, instead of trying to make them fit a particular style before they fully develop their own game. I feel the Flames have improved in this area greatly. We will see what happens moving forward.

Kuemper is a possibility as an RFA. He was signed at 1.5 mil last contract. The knock for me is that he has never played more than 31 games in an NHL season. This past season he played 21 games. He had 84 regular season games and 9 playoff games in 4 seasons. At .915 sv% he shows better than Ramo and Ortio but not that significantly. In his 31 game season his sv% dropped to.905. If he is brought in as a backup, no worries. It would be a risk to make him the starter. Andersen has better numbers and is also RFA. He has played 50+ games in a single season with a .914 sv% which is good but still below the .920 mark. He is an upgrade for the Flames for sure. What will it cost to trade for his rights and what cost to sign him? I would guess he is looking at similar price contract wise as Gibson at 3 - 3.5. That would be a solid contract. The issue for me is what The ducks will want back. Vasilevsky would have a lower contract based on a smaller body of work. He does have better numbers than Ramo and Ortio but has played a maximum of 24 games in a single season. You are taking a risk if he proves he cannot handle 50+ games a season in the NHL. Halak is a bonified starter with solid numbers but comes with a hefty contract at 4.5 mil cap hit for 2 more seasons. Since he is signed, what will the Islanders expect in return? They know he is worth quite a bit so what will the Flames need to give up? Allen and Elliot are both signed to a combined 5.2 mil cap hit. I don't seethe Blues needing to move either one until after next season. If one or the other is moved, it will cost a hefty price. Any UFA you get will be a risk to see if they can climb out of the shadows to take the reigns successfully such as Reimer, Scrivens or Khubodin. They are former starters forced out by young guys like Ward or career backups like Montoya. Chad Johnson shows potential at 30 years old though he has never carried a team. Any other FA has not proved anything to show they would or should have a shot as a starter. Given suggested options, Anderssen would be my first choice depending on trade cost. Either blues goalie would be next followed by Halak. Johnson would be a possibility but I wouldn't go over 2.5 knowing he is an upgrade on Ramo but still likely a stop gap. Not a fan of re-treads. The issue for any of these is trade cost, not cap hit.

What goalie are you going to get next season who fits within cap restrictions that doesn't cost part of the core and is not a risk? You aren't getting Rinne, Price, Quick or Lundquist. Fleury and Murray are stretches at best. Elliot likely won't fit the cap or be cheap to acquire. Any goalie you get will possibly be filler and get replaced next season. You are taking a chance regardless of what you do. Do you suggest grabbing some one else's prospects and hope they can be better than Ramo and Ortio? What if they aren't better? What if no team is willing to trade their prospects? What if better D on the Flames doesn't help a goalie's stats? We can what if all we want, the point remains the same. Ramo and Ortio have both played enough games at the NHL level to prove that they can be starters in the league. Tell me a goalie that is definitely an upgrade, is available and is the right cost without any questions at all! It simply isn't possible. You don't know what will happen any more than I do so don't get bent out of shape when I point to a possibility that may happen and wouldn't be horrible if push comes to shove. What ifs are everywhere, can't escape them. There are no guarantees so all your what ifs go for every goalie out there.

Thank you for the replies. It was not my intention to pump up Ramo's stats, nor to omit information on him. As I said, he is a starting goalie at the NHL level as based on his stats. I also said he is not the goalie to take the Flames to the cup. The point of my post was to show that 1 more season with the Ramo / Ortio combo would not be the worst thing in the world if they are signed to low contracts which would allow more money to be spent on higher end forwards. In a year, there is a chance that Gillies could be ready. I think the Flames would do better with an improved goalie situation, but Ramo and Ortio returning would not be the worst option. That was the basis of my post.

I am just going to throw this into the mix as an overall comment on goaltending and people can take the information as they will. This may have already been said, but it takes repeating for those who are ultra focused on grabbing a top goalie. First off, there were a total of 18 goalies in the league who played at least 20 games this season and had a save % above .920. Of those 18, 4 didn't even make the playoffs. 2 of those goalies who didn't make the playoffs are Sabres. That means that at least 2 teams of the 16 who made the playoffs had goalies with below .920 save percentages. There were / are 4 goalies in the playoffs with LOWER save percentages than Ramo did this season including Rinne, Lehtonen, Howard and Niemi. Goalies who are often touted as starters or that people think should be upgrades on Ramo who had worse sv% than Ramo last season include Bernier, Gustavsson, Hutchison and Pavelec. Now I do believe that the Flames need to get better goaltending overall or at least should. That being said, Ramo's numbers include his slow start where he had no real idea where he fit with the Flames and had little faith in him from coaching. Once he was the sure starter, his numbers came up. Is Ramo the type of goalie you win the Stanley cup with? not likely, but he is a starter in the league. I think that if the Flames can get a starting goalie who is definitely ready, on the cheap, then you go for it. IF the Flames can re-sign Ramo to a 2.5 mil 1 year prove it contract to buy time for Gillies and / or MacDonald plus sign Ortio to a 1.5 mil 1 year prove it, then you do it. If Gillies or MacDonald pull a rabbit out and kill it in training camp, at the lowish contracts, both Ortio and Ramo would be easy trades based on last years play alone. I wouldn't be disappointed to see the goaltending change, nor would I be disappointed seeing a Ramo, Ortio tandem for another year. Teams can be successful with average goaltending if they can have solid D and O to make up for it.