Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[jjgallow]

Joe Iginla

[MP5029]

5 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Joe Iginla

And maybe Tij Iginla this year? 
 

it would be the first time we did the brother thing…it’s worked out for other teams over the years…and with the Iginla pedigree why not try it in Cgy? 

[conundrumed]

Oof. My OCD is seriously kicking in. 20 pages of Hanifin-surmising and other TDL deals all mashed into one.

I need to go play Stairway to Heaven, using Suck My Kiss lyrics, then use Hey You to Back in Black lyrics for the chorus. Is that OCD, ADD, or both?

[MP5029]

Ok, so with all this talk about Cgy waited too long to trade off guys, I suggested last year that they move guys at TDL and a lot people

on here in the bold trade thread said that they wouldn’t get a good return because they were not pending UFA’s…

 

fast forward to now and the returns are not so good…in the future I hope both fans and Mgt keep that in mind. Then, there is also a few other 2000’s issues we had like Jarome in his UFA year, that was a bad return too…

 

Hope in the future Cgy (looking at upper mgt, not Conroy, and ownership for this issue needing to be addressed) Ownership and notes of hockey Mgt need to stop micro managing and let the GM do their job, give them flexibility to work things like 3 years if you don’t like it then get a different GM but the group above the GM need to butt out.

 

having a competitive young core year over year will make the post season far more often than the past 15 years has, the old way of thinking just doesn’t work,  proof is in the pudding since 1989 this team has been to the finals only 1 time and TBH that was on the back of 2 guys named Kipper and Iggy. Thats a horrible track record.

 

speaking of…giving how recent returns have been similar to the Iggy UFA year, how long did that take to get a new core in place? All be it that re-tool was rushed, but I suspect we are looking at a similar time frame to rebuild a new young core…granted we do have more picks and prospects that potentially have a higher ceiling than what we got from the 2o13 year down/post Iginla era but currently those picks are looking to be much lower and well out of the top 10 so looking at the balance of the over all good and bad I’d suggest we are looking at 3-4 years to see a new young core..hopefully this time, they don’t bring in a bunch of vets by trading away picks and prospects.

[jjgallow]

11 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Ok, so with all this talk about Cgy waited too long to trade off guys, I suggested last year that they move guys at TDL and a lot people

on here in the bold trade thread said that they wouldn’t get a good return because they were not pending UFA’s…

 

fast forward to now and the returns are not so good…in the future I hope both fans and Mgt keep that in mind. Then, there is also a few other 2000’s issues we had like Jarome in his UFA year, that was a bad return too…

 

Hope in the future Cgy (looking at upper mgt, not Conroy, and ownership for this issue needing to be addressed) Ownership and notes of hockey Mgt need to stop micro managing and let the GM do their job, give them flexibility to work things like 3 years if you don’t like it then get a different GM but the group above the GM need to butt out.

 

having a competitive young core year over year will make the post season far more often than the past 15 years has, the old way of thinking just doesn’t work,  proof is in the pudding since 1989 this team has been to the finals only 1 time and TBH that was on the back of 2 guys named Kipper and Iggy. Thats a horrible track record.

 

speaking of…giving how recent returns have been similar to the Iggy UFA year, how long did that take to get a new core in place? All be it that re-tool was rushed, but I suspect we are looking at a similar time frame to rebuild a new young core…granted we do have more picks and prospects that potentially have a higher ceiling than what we got from the 2o13 year down/post Iginla era but currently those picks are looking to be much lower and well out of the top 10 so looking at the balance of the over all good and bad I’d suggest we are looking at 3-4 years to see a new young core..hopefully this time, they don’t bring in a bunch of vets by trading away picks and prospects.

 

 

I have not decided how to evaluate Conroy yet.   But, I can say this:

 

I won't base it on how long it took him to start a rebuild.   

 

Let's be honest, BT was the GM who stalled that.   And everyone loved him for it.    Some blamed owners.  Okay.    But can't apply different set of rules for Conroy then.   

 

Fact is, Conroy did what was impossible for previous GM (so the rumors say).    Obviously, whoever pulls the trigger gets all the bad vibes and all the scrutiny.   But, at least a trigger has been pulled.  Nobody else could manage that until now.

I'll base my decision on on our pick/prospect pool after the trade deadline, and also what we come out of the draft with.     And...realistically, even that is very early to form an opinion (but I will anyway lol)

[conundrumed]

Decent return for Hanifin. 1st, either 2nd or 3rd, and a developed O-minded large RSD who can't get a chance to play regularly on a team of constantly adding bodies in the way.

Fans seemed to think Hanifin is worth a Seider-like return when he is actually a Walman-level Dman.

Expecting a top A-level prospect AND a 1st is unrealistic.

Did no one notice Hanifin was NEVER paired with a 5 or 6 Dman to boost? He was the one getting the Tanev or Andersson boost.

[phoenix66]

This states some good points very well.. saves me typing a book lol

 

This guy is not just some guy they got sold on.. the have a book on him.. known about him for 2 years .. played with Pelletier in the Q.. 

 

 

 

 

[conundrumed]

24 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

This states some good points very well.. saves me typing a book lol

 

This guy is not just some guy they got sold on.. the have a book on him.. known about him for 2 years .. played with Pelletier in the Q.. 

 

 

 

 

That's exactly my take on him. Interested to see how Hanifin slots/performs for them. Totally different structure/demands on that squad. McCrimmond use to spit his chew on his players backs on the bench when he was pissed.lol But of course, that type of behaviour is hearsay nowadays. He loves puppies and kittens and cries when a child scrapes his knees.

[phoenix66]

35 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

I have not decided how to evaluate Conroy yet.   But, I can say this:

 

I won't base it on how long it took him to start a rebuild.   

 

Let's be honest, BT was the GM who stalled that.   And everyone loved him for it.    Some blamed owners.  Okay.    But can't apply different set of rules for Conroy then.   

 

Fact is, Conroy did what was impossible for previous GM (so the rumors say).    Obviously, whoever pulls the trigger gets all the bad vibes and all the scrutiny.   But, at least a trigger has been pulled.  Nobody else could manage that until now.

I'll base my decision on on our pick/prospect pool after the trade deadline, and also what we come out of the draft with.     And...realistically, even that is very early to form an opinion (but I will anyway lol)

Good take ..there's no denying Bt activated a time bomb in the org and then left.. this many upper names expiring at the same time is a minefield .

To b somewhat fair..you can see what the roadmap was.. if not for significant events (chucky , Johnny, Monahan Injuries) this should have been the start or mid of a contending core..makes the shots at keeping these players or replacing them a lot higher ..but its not 

 

Regardless of the actual value of these players , or how much of a bidding war you try and start.. Conny was dealing from weakness.. dealing with teams for late round picks or none at all  .. contenders don't typically have studs in the prospect pool and if they do they have very few and reluctant to move them .

That he was able to turn 5 assets Into 15 (17 if you count the waivers ) is to be commended 

[Thebrewcrew]

43 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Decent return for Hanifin. 1st, either 2nd or 3rd, and a developed O-minded large RSD who can't get a chance to play regularly on a team of constantly adding bodies in the way.

Fans seemed to think Hanifin is worth a Seider-like return when he is actually a Walman-level Dman.

Expecting a top A-level prospect AND a 1st is unrealistic.

Did no one notice Hanifin was NEVER paired with a 5 or 6 Dman to boost? He was the one getting the Tanev or Andersson boost.

He’s a good player. But after thinking about it, probably not one you need for the next eight years. That’s how you get yourself into trouble. 
 

Yes, he’s a loss, but he’s much more replaceable than the departures of Gaudreau, Tkachuk be even Lindholm. 

[Thebrewcrew]

46 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

I have not decided how to evaluate Conroy yet.   But, I can say this:

 

I won't base it on how long it took him to start a rebuild.   

 

Let's be honest, BT was the GM who stalled that.   And everyone loved him for it.    Some blamed owners.  Okay.    But can't apply different set of rules for Conroy then.   

 

Fact is, Conroy did what was impossible for previous GM (so the rumors say).    Obviously, whoever pulls the trigger gets all the bad vibes and all the scrutiny.   But, at least a trigger has been pulled.  Nobody else could manage that until now.

I'll base my decision on on our pick/prospect pool after the trade deadline, and also what we come out of the draft with.     And...realistically, even that is very early to form an opinion (but I will anyway lol)

Very fair.

 

It’s going to come down to this, how do the Flames do with these draft picks? That was always going to be the path for the Flames to build it back up again. As we’ve seen, it’s really difficult to get top prospects via trade.

 

Theres a lot of risk, but that’s what a lot of us wanted. Zero guarantees come with a rebuild.

[phoenix66]

Conny has a new friend apparently 😂😂

 

 

 

 

[conundrumed]

I can say at least one amateur scout absolutely loves it.lol

BT almost put them out of work. They have a ton of work ahead of them now.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

Conny has a new friend apparently 😂😂

 

 

 

 

If you want to attract Russians/Belarussians, Milstein is your best friend.

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

If you want to attract Russians/Belarussians, Milstein is your best friend.

Yep.. and not a bad plan when you can't keep Americans . So long as they get paid and played Russians don't want to go home once they get here 😎

[jjgallow]

31 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Conny has a new friend apparently 😂😂

 

 

 

 

 

I was very concerned with our Russian situation even 2-3 years ago.     

 

This puts us past a threshold where one could say we are "Russian Friendly"

 

It's a smart, smart, smart move.  On many levels.

[phoenix66]

And we get to waiver watch again today ..

 

I could make a case for grabbing both these kids..   young center , Calgary kid...good upside.. 25,yr old Damn.. 

Kings likely don't want to lose either but have to waive them to make room 

 

https://mayorsmanor.com/2024/03/report-kings-will-place-anderson-dolan-and-moverare-on-waivers-today/

 

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

I have not decided how to evaluate Conroy yet.   But, I can say this:

 

I won't base it on how long it took him to start a rebuild.   

 

Let's be honest, BT was the GM who stalled that.   And everyone loved him for it.    Some blamed owners.  Okay.    But can't apply different set of rules for Conroy then.   

 

Fact is, Conroy did what was impossible for previous GM (so the rumors say).    Obviously, whoever pulls the trigger gets all the bad vibes and all the scrutiny.   But, at least a trigger has been pulled.  Nobody else could manage that until now.

I'll base my decision on on our pick/prospect pool after the trade deadline, and also what we come out of the draft with.     And...realistically, even that is very early to form an opinion (but I will anyway lol)

 

 

Flames made every attempt to re sign Lindholm. Ultimately he isn't here because he doesn't want to be. 

Flames made multiple attempts to re sign Hanifin. Ultimately he isn't here because he doesn't want to be. 

Right before they traded him they make attempts to re sign Tanev. Ultimately he isn't here because he doesn't want to be. 

 

I don't think this is the Flames pulling the trigger on a rebuild, this is the Flames reacting to the reality that the core they built to try and win is done. I think this is plan b, plan A was keeping Lindholm/Hanifin. I'm happy they are gong this route but don't agree this signals a change. 

 

This is not a shot at Conroy at all either BTW, I think Conroy is doing a fine job so far. Yes I do wonder if they waited too long on Hanifin but that's it. You had to wait on Tanev and Z for cap space and while I personally didn't like it, I do understand the idea of wanting Lindholm to stay. 

 

Just don't like how every problem gets dumped on the guy on the way out and suddenly the new shiny toy can do no wrong. Yet we don't acknowledge we'd be singing a different tune today if Lindholm and Hanifin had of said yes to their contract offers. 

[cross16]

5 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

I like that Connie is spreading the 1st round picks out.

 

This years crop apparently is not that good after the first few picks.  2025 and 2026 could be better drafts.

 

When's McKenna draftable?

 

 

 

 

 

2026

[Thebrewcrew]

15 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I was very concerned with our Russian situation even 2-3 years ago.     

 

This puts us past a threshold where one could say we are "Russian Friendly"

 

It's a smart, smart, smart move.  On many levels.

I wasn’t sure at first,  but now it makes me wonder if they’d actually take Silayev this year, if given the chance. I thought the two years under contract in Russia may deter them

[phoenix66]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Flames made every attempt to re sign Lindholm. Ultimately he isn't here because he doesn't want to be. 

Flames made multiple attempts to re sign Hanifin. Ultimately he isn't here because he doesn't want to be. 

Right before they traded him they make attempts to re sign Tanev. Ultimately he isn't here because he doesn't want to be. 

 

I don't think this is the Flames pulling the trigger on a rebuild, this is the Flames reacting to the reality that the core they built to try and win is done. It's a natural evolution of the team. I think the only reason this feels like a rebuild is you had so many UFAs in the same summer.

 

This is not a shot at Conroy at all either BTW, I think Conroy is doing a fine job so far. Yes I do wonder if they waited too long on Hanifin but that's it. You had to wait on Tanev and Z for cap space and while I personally didn't like it, I do understand the idea of wanting Lindholm to stay. 

 

Just don't like how every problem gets dumped on the guy on the way out and suddenly the new shiny toy can do no wrong. Yet we don't acknowledge we'd be singing a different tune today if Lindholm and Hanifin had of said yes to their contract offers. 

This is my thoughts exactly ..flames are not in rebuild mode.. big difference between dealing with your own housekeeping thru necessity..and actively flipping under control assets into lottery tickets 

He stated at the beginning.. we want players that want the be here and not starting for the paycheck.. he's weeded out 5 of em so far .. Lindholm would have stayed if we'd paid his price..but Conny stuck to his .. 

 

Now if they start selling off the control players..the Anderson's...the Weegars..for futures. ..now you know they're tearing it down 

[phoenix66]

8 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I wasn’t sure at first,  but now it makes me wonder if they’d actually take Silayev this year, if given the chance. I thought the two years under contract in Russia may deter them

And that's it.. if you want to play the Russian game ..you have to hurdle the Initial pain of getting them here.. and be ok with them being 23-25 when they do ..but after that you get pretty loyal players 

 

 

[travel_dude]

It's still a concern when you draft Russian players that are playing there.

We have two right now that are not signed, both goalies.

I wouldn't be going out of my way to draft them unless the scouting is well done.

But anyway, we have lots now from Eastern Europe.

They likely all know Kuzmenko from his KHL days.

 

Connie has set the table to draft more and cleared out the culture club.

Don't want to be here?  Moving on.

Anyone else?

Markstrom should be moved for other reasons.

He's a luxury now for the next couple years.

We are flush with mid to bottom pair D and lots of prospects.

We still lack top F prospects.

Are we able to do that via Markstrom or maybe Mangiapane?

 

[phoenix66]

16 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

It's still a concern when you draft Russian players that are playing there.

We have two right now that are not signed, both goalies.

I wouldn't be going out of my way to draft them unless the scouting is well done.

But anyway, we have lots now from Eastern Europe.

They likely all know Kuzmenko from his KHL days.

 

Connie has set the table to draft more and cleared out the culture club.

Don't want to be here?  Moving on.

Anyone else?

Markstrom should be moved for other reasons.

He's a luxury now for the next couple years.

We are flush with mid to bottom pair D and lots of prospects.

We still lack top F prospects.

Are we able to do that via Markstrom or maybe Mangiapane?

 

Yes..we def need centres...one reason of try to claim the la kid on waivers today ..has some Logan Couture similarities ..and we can afford to let him play and make mistakes while he grows 

[The_People1]

16 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Yes..we def need centres...one reason of try to claim the la kid on waivers today ..has some Logan Couture similarities ..and we can afford to let him play and make mistakes while he grows 

 

But we don't need Centers per se.  We need a #1 Center specifically.  Zary and Pospisil have both mentioned to coaches and management that they'd like to play Center at the NHL level.  I think Zary has the wheels to succeed doing so.

 

Backlund and Kadri will be 2/3 Center for a couple years still.  We missing that #1 player.