Flames @ Kraken; 4 November 2023; 8pm MDT; SNW/E/O/4K

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

That the best 850 goaltending I have seen in a long time.

I've reached the conclusion that goalie stats are pointless outside of axe-grinding. Husso had his first game of not playing well vs the Bruins, just looked too stiff. His stats coming in didn't look great, but he has been. Conversely, Reimer's stats indicate that he's sensational, whereas watching him is full-on painful.

Markstrom has been great, but again, stats defy that.

As for the game...Me: ahhh it's the end of the 1st, can't stand the panel, let's just lie here on the couch and get ready for the 2nd.

2am Me: ahhh for f@#$sakes. So I await the 10am EST replay on SN1.🥱

Very happy to see a win hopefully help the fan tone a little.

What happened to 10-1 with Vladar peeps?lol

Listening to Leafs takes is hilarious. Zero people discussing their D and avg G, it's all on the bottom 6 not scoring.

Aaaand JG got benched for the back half of the 3rd.

It was just a good night all around.

 

[cross16]

Nice to see them play competent hockey. 
 

but so happy for Pospisil. That kid has overcome a lot, so to see him play well  and score was just awesome to see. 

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I've reached the conclusion that goalie stats are pointless outside of axe-grinding. Husso had his first game of not playing well vs the Bruins, just looked too stiff. His stats coming in didn't look great, but he has been. Conversely, Reimer's stats indicate that he's sensational, whereas watching him is full-on painful.

Markstrom has been great, but again, stats defy that.

As for the game...Me: ahhh it's the end of the 1st, can't stand the panel, let's just lie here on the couch and get ready for the 2nd.

2am Me: ahhh for f@#$sakes. So I await the 10am EST replay on SN1.🥱

Very happy to see a win hopefully help the fan tone a little.

What happened to 10-1 with Vladar peeps?lol

Listening to Leafs takes is hilarious. Zero people discussing their D and avg G, it's all on the bottom 6 not scoring.

Aaaand JG got benched for the back half of the 3rd.

It was just a good night all around.

 

 

When you double up the other team on shots, and the score is still sort of close (EN goals not included), the stats make sense.  If you watched none of this game you would think Vladar sucked.  I don't even think any of the goals were soft.  Vladar also stopped HD chances that could easily have been backbreakers.  

 

The panel sounds like all they want to talk about is reasons why the Leafs aren't leading the league.  Blame the bottom 6 as you say.  Not sticking up for Lillugrin was the only point they made and they couldn't even agree.  Better to try to win than fight or check harder.  

 

After the game, they jumped to the Nucks broadcast and then did post game all about Nucks.  Never got to the Flames and because Robertson had to leave early (guest on After Hours), they cut to that show.  They were supposed to talk to Pospisil and never aired that either.  You would almost think the Flames didn't play.

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

When you double up the other team on shots, and the score is still sort of close (EN goals not included), the stats make sense.  If you watched none of this game you would think Vladar sucked.  I don't even think any of the goals were soft.  Vladar also stopped HD chances that could easily have been backbreakers.  

 

The panel sounds like all they want to talk about is reasons why the Leafs aren't leading the league.  Blame the bottom 6 as you say.  Not sticking up for Lillugrin was the only point they made and they couldn't even agree.  Better to try to win than fight or check harder.  

 

After the game, they jumped to the Nucks broadcast and then did post game all about Nucks.  Never got to the Flames and because Robertson had to leave early (guest on After Hours), they cut to that show.  They were supposed to talk to Pospisil and never aired that either.  You would almost think the Flames didn't play.

 

So like...Do they Play Vladar next game?

 

what does one do?

 

I love how Toronto is the center of the universe lol.    If they want to talk about the future, they should watch the Flames more this year.    That's what they're gonna get after a few years of BT doing bad deals imho.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

So like...Do they Play Vladar next game?

 

what does one do?

 

I love how Toronto is the center of the universe lol.    If they want to talk about the future, they should watch the Flames more this year.    That's what they're gonna get after a few years of BT doing bad deals imho.

 

Toronto is like what we had not what we are.  The bad deals here were avoiding by players walking and asked to be traded.  Bt signed a couple as well.  Don't see much similiarities though in the team.

 

I think they should go with Vladar, as he plays a certain way and right now it's working.  I don't think he played really any better than Markstrom did in the loss to DAL, but perhaps he let in one goal too many to have a chance.  The Oilers with either goalie from us would be in better shape.  Not by a lot, since they have sucky goalies and sucky defense.  Not to mention that they are only scoring on the PP and people are starting to realize that they are one dimensional.  I could never figure out how people were suggesting they were headed for the finals.  There was nothing to suggest that other than guys that dominate on a PP.  Take away PP and they look very average to below average.

[manu12]

Missed the last 2 games due to work. At least I could record the game at Seattle, so I watched it today.

From watching the Highlights and reading a couple of forums, it seems like we had a good game against the Stars, but unfortunately lost.

Yesterdays game was a good one. Thought the late powerplay goal in the second was the turning point. Vladar was awesome, making several strong saves in the first 2 periods to keep us in the game. Backs and Sharangovich had strong games and were rewared on the scoresheet. Also happy for the young guys Zary and Pospisil to contribute.

Hope the win gives the guys some confidence going forward.

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Toronto is like what we had not what we are.  The bad deals here were avoiding by players walking and asked to be traded.  Bt signed a couple as well.  Don't see much similiarities though in the team.

 

I think they should go with Vladar, as he plays a certain way and right now it's working.  I don't think he played really any better than Markstrom did in the loss to DAL, but perhaps he let in one goal too many to have a chance.  The Oilers with either goalie from us would be in better shape.  Not by a lot, since they have sucky goalies and sucky defense.  Not to mention that they are only scoring on the PP and people are starting to realize that they are one dimensional.  I could never figure out how people were suggesting they were headed for the finals.  There was nothing to suggest that other than guys that dominate on a PP.  Take away PP and they look very average to below average.

 

I'd be interested to see what Vladar does in a 2nd game too.

 

But, more on point, the Oilers suck.

[medatswhoP]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Toronto is like what we had not what we are.  The bad deals here were avoiding by players walking and asked to be traded.  Bt signed a couple as well.  Don't see much similiarities though in the team.

 

I think they should go with Vladar, as he plays a certain way and right now it's working.  I don't think he played really any better than Markstrom did in the loss to DAL, but perhaps he let in one goal too many to have a chance.  The Oilers with either goalie from us would be in better shape.  Not by a lot, since they have sucky goalies and sucky defense.  Not to mention that they are only scoring on the PP and people are starting to realize that they are one dimensional.  I could never figure out how people were suggesting they were headed for the finals.  There was nothing to suggest that other than guys that dominate on a PP.  Take away PP and they look very average to below average.

I too agree go with Vladar now see what what could transpire.

Ive said it for years Oilers are very one dimension as they rely strictly on PP's to win games, even strength they are just an average team with horrendous defence.  Still cant believe how much they are paying for Nurse lol.

Love to see the Flames win a few in a row to enjoy this month.

[jjgallow]

11 hours ago, medatswhoP said:

I too agree go with Vladar now see what what could transpire.

Ive said it for years Oilers are very one dimension as they rely strictly on PP's to win games, even strength they are just an average team with horrendous defence.  Still cant believe how much they are paying for Nurse lol.

Love to see the Flames win a few in a row to enjoy this month.

 

whatever happens, we need a change of culture/policy where we stop over-playing our goalies, that's the biggest reason why I'd like to see it.  Nothing personal.

 

so,   the backup plays well, give him a few more games.  at least one more game.  Win Now has never been more pointless.     

 

IF....if we somehow made the playoffs, which is a bad bet....  what's the point if your goalie is overplayed?

So give them both some minutes.    Vladar's playing well?  easy decision.

[conundrumed]

20 hours ago, jjgallow said:

So like...Do they Play Vladar next game?

I hope not. I'm not a believer of the, "hot hand". Just split the starts tighter. Decide the goalie schedule and don't over think it. Even the, "well, A is 2-7 against that team and B is 4-0 so let's go with B".

I'm not into any of that stuff, just play the goalie splits as you set out to do.

Don't play head games, especially with goalies. You only make it worse.

Whether intended or not, it sends bad messages to goalies to not have equal faith in both. We've seen enough of that movie. Do the splits you want like it doesn't matter who's in net, because really, it doesn't.

The team is still a turnover machine getting the puck out of their own end.

Don't start inflating and deflating your goalies. Zero good will come of it.

Ullmark/Swayman are the class pairing in the league for good reason. Let your goalies work together rather than pit them against each other,

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

I hope not. I'm not a believer of the, "hot hand". Just split the starts tighter. Decide the goalie schedule and don't over think it. Even the, "well, A is 2-7 against that team and B is 4-0 so let's go with B".

I'm not into any of that stuff, just play the goalie splits as you set out to do.

Don't play head games, especially with goalies. You only make it worse.

Whether intended or not, it sends bad messages to goalies to not have equal faith in both. We've seen enough of that movie. Do the splits you want like it doesn't matter who's in net, because really, it doesn't.

The team is still a turnover machine getting the puck out of their own end.

Don't start inflating and deflating your goalies. Zero good will come of it.

Ullmark/Swayman are the class pairing in the league for good reason. Let your goalies work together rather than pit them against each other,

 

 

I am like you! 

 

just give them a pre-schedule and say be ready for these games. Those are your starts. Unless there's an injury, be ready then. 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I hope not. I'm not a believer of the, "hot hand". Just split the starts tighter. Decide the goalie schedule and don't over think it. Even the, "well, A is 2-7 against that team and B is 4-0 so let's go with B".

I'm not into any of that stuff, just play the goalie splits as you set out to do.

Don't play head games, especially with goalies. You only make it worse.

Whether intended or not, it sends bad messages to goalies to not have equal faith in both. We've seen enough of that movie. Do the splits you want like it doesn't matter who's in net, because really, it doesn't.

The team is still a turnover machine getting the puck out of their own end.

Don't start inflating and deflating your goalies. Zero good will come of it.

Ullmark/Swayman are the class pairing in the league for good reason. Let your goalies work together rather than pit them against each other,

 

I would counter that with the idea that any plan for goalie starts/splits takes into account record vs a team, how they have played on 1st or 2nd game of B2B's, tendencies to fast or heavy teams, etc.  Sutter was a big believer in a set schedule and would not deviate from it.  Last season, when Vladar was undefeated in regulation in 11 starts, he went cold sitting for the better part of a month.

 

But I do agree about getting away from the hot hand idea.  It never works out.  How many times have we seen a shutout one game and the next game a blowout loss.  There are some caviats that enter into it.  Player getting ill, reactions from a bad loss.  You can't just manage to a schedule 100% of the time.  

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would counter that with the idea that any plan for goalie starts/splits takes into account record vs a team, how they have played on 1st or 2nd game of B2B's, tendencies to fast or heavy teams, etc.  Sutter was a big believer in a set schedule and would not deviate from it.  Last season, when Vladar was undefeated in regulation in 11 starts, he went cold sitting for the better part of a month.

 

But I do agree about getting away from the hot hand idea.  It never works out.  How many times have we seen a shutout one game and the next game a blowout loss.  There are some caviats that enter into it.  Player getting ill, reactions from a bad loss.  You can't just manage to a schedule 100% of the time.  

 

I like both your comments here.     I don't love the hot hand strategy, but I'm also okay with some refined thought put into it.  

 

Complicated or simple, we need to fundamentally get away from playing just one goalie all season.

 

I personally believe that has cost us many, many playoff rounds.  since 2004.    The year Kipper went into the playoffs hot with only 30 or so regular season games (can't remember now).   And then we proceeded to over-play him for his entire career cause he "liked it".

 

I don't actually care whether they play Vladar next or not.    But, I would care if they played Markstrom for 15 games in a row without a break.  Or..  any goalie, without a break.   No matter how good or how hot.

 

I think the "hot streak" thing is debatable when giving backups a chance.    

 

It is, without a doubt though, an aweful idea when wearing out a hot starter in the regular season.

[DirtyDeeds]

21 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

I love how Toronto is the center of the universe lol.    If they want to talk about the future, they should watch the Flames more this year.    That's what they're gonna get after a few years of BT doing bad deals imho.

Interesting you went there.

 

Recently just after the Heritage Classic Oilers nation and some reporters too the opportunity to create negative narratives about the Flames... Like how little kids do when they got lucky and ended up trash talking about it..

 

since then there are a couple of articles coming out of Leafs nation that are more trash talking about Flames and Oilers... than actual reporting on.

 

I think this is how reporting is going to be. Read a couple of articles and pick out the statements that address the narrative you want to talk about.

 

As for BT he saw the writing on the wall and got out of Dodge before most realized the shape he was leaving his creation [Flames] in...

[conundrumed]

29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Sutter was a big believer in a set schedule and would not deviate from it. 

I don't believe that at all. He can say it all that he likes. He spent the entire season, "gotta get Marky going" while pretty much spitting on Vladar. Sutter's biggest obstacle was himself. He made loads of bad decisions because he knows best. Did he even once credit Vladar last year? "He's a backup, it's his job" is all I ever remember hearing.

Maybe it's just me, but demeaning/indifference isn't a great motivational tactic. Isn't the aim to inspire, rather than perspire?

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

I don't believe that at all. He can say it all that he likes. He spent the entire season, "gotta get Marky going" while pretty much spitting on Vladar. Sutter's biggest obstacle was himself. He made loads of bad decisions because he knows best. Did he even once credit Vladar last year? "He's a backup, it's his job" is all I ever remember hearing.

Maybe it's just me, but demeaning/indifference isn't a great motivational tactic. Isn't the aim to inspire, rather than perspire?

 

in general I don't agree with the Sutter hate.  But...  I do agree with this particular item.   Again, been a problem since 2004.    The biggest problem with it, imho, is that ...it worked.  it got results.

in the regular season.

 

then our starter was frayed by playoffs.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

I don't believe that at all. He can say it all that he likes. He spent the entire season, "gotta get Marky going" while pretty much spitting on Vladar. Sutter's biggest obstacle was himself. He made loads of bad decisions because he knows best. Did he even once credit Vladar last year? "He's a backup, it's his job" is all I ever remember hearing.

Maybe it's just me, but demeaning/indifference isn't a great motivational tactic. Isn't the aim to inspire, rather than perspire?

 

He went early on with his schedule.  You are so correct in his demeaning comments about DV, but at the time he also was all about his "schedule".  Around the time of his streak and it coming to an end, he went to "get Marky going".  It's how I remember it and it seemed to based on nothing but feelings.  

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

in general I don't agree with the Sutter hate.  But...  I do agree with this particular item.   Again, been a problem since 2004.    The biggest problem with it, imho, is that ...it worked.  it got results.

in the regular season.

 

then our starter was frayed by playoffs.

 

Did it work?  We get Marky going, only to lose the most important games to qualify for the playoffs.

His last 10 starts, 4-3-2 and pulled.  10 points in 10 games.  

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I don't believe that at all. He can say it all that he likes. He spent the entire season, "gotta get Marky going" while pretty much spitting on Vladar. Sutter's biggest obstacle was himself. He made loads of bad decisions because he knows best. Did he even once credit Vladar last year? "He's a backup, it's his job" is all I ever remember hearing.

Maybe it's just me, but demeaning/indifference isn't a great motivational tactic. Isn't the aim to inspire, rather than perspire?

 

 

I fully agree with this. He's a good coach generally. But he went into dick mode last season and I think it affected his coaching, not allowing himself to get away from "knowing best." He couldn't get out of his own way. 

 

While I agree he was right about the state of the team and goals. And maybe he treated players ok enough behind the scenes, it just didn't sound like it. I don't mind a hard-Hash Rate coach, but I still think there are human rights that need to be adhered to. 

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Did it work?  We get Marky going, only to lose the most important games to qualify for the playoffs.

His last 10 starts, 4-3-2 and pulled.  10 points in 10 games.  

 

depends on your metrics.  you already know how I feel about that lol.

 

 

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

depends on your metrics.  you already know how I feel about that lol.

 

 

 

Well burning out a goalie to make the playoffs and not making the playoffs seems like a bad outcome.  

So, did it work?  Nope.

[medatswhoP]

I still like rotating the goalies regardless if one is playing hot or not for all reasons stated already above, but a couple extra points.

• I feel some goaltenders play better against different teams and to know your goaltenders best game for that specific team which also they goaltenders know themselves what teams they seem to play hot under is the best odds to utilize them
• Balancing the goaltending games/minutes builds internal healthy competitions between themselves as they strive to outperform both each other and themselves for W's in the win column.
• Reduce risk of burnout if/should playoffs begin as the workload/mental game increases the deeper you go

Factor in payroll/salaries that's where it can get tricky no doubt.

my .05 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well burning out a goalie to make the playoffs and not making the playoffs seems like a bad outcome.  

So, did it work?  Nope.

 

This is true lol

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

This is true lol

 

BTW, thanks for getting rid of the EF pic.  I know you were making a joke, but really it was funny like a crutch.  

[jjgallow]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

BTW, thanks for getting rid of the EF pic.  I know you were making a joke, but really it was funny like a crutch.  

 

I thought it was great lol.   until it got to the point that I was afraid to visit the site because I was see it.