2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[jjgallow]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

KHL save percentages are ridiculous.

 

There are two KHL goalies that will be drafted this year. Ilya Nabokov and Pavel Moysevich. I would be interested in either if I were the Flames.

 

Nabokov had a .930 in 43 games. Moysevich was at .942 in only 13 games.

 

There are TEN goalies in the KHL with a save percentage of at least .930!

 

Fifty goalies have at least a .900. Former Flame, Artyom Zagidulin is at .914 for some context.

 

Both goalies are overagers for the draft. Nabokov is about the same size as Wolf. Moysevich is really big. 

 

Just crazy the goalie stats in the KHL. It's been on my radar for a while actually. When Zagidulin came to NA, he had awesome numbers in Russia. 

 

t do believe it's as simple as they have better goaltender and D coaching right now.   It goes back and forth, Russia historically isn't always the strongest at this.  But, right now, they are.    And yeah, their team systems are tighter for sure, but when their top goalies play here, man.   Some of them really show up.   Then combine that with a reluctance or inability to poach some of these guys into the NHL in recent years, and here's the result.

 

When you look at the development curve of goalies, imho, go over-agers all day long.  Even at 19 they've got years to go.    Normally.  If these guys are already successful at pro hockey level, then they should be drafted and maybe drafted early.

 

Both are 100% legit.   Moysevich stands out more to me.

 

 

BTW, here's a mystery.  We're talking about over-agers it seems mostly because none of the Russian 18 year olds are listed as draft elligible.    Anyone know what's up with that?

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/mhl/stats/2023-2024?age=u19&prospects=u21#goalies

 

These guys are on fire and not a single one listed as draft elligible, nor have I heard of mentioned.

[jjgallow]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

If it's not a good goalie year then don't force the issue.  Just go with the strength of the draft.  If this draft is good for D, then pick a bunch of D. 

 

At the end of the day, the Flames need everything but we can't fix everything in one draft.

 

I would agree with you if we were talking about, like, Port.   and this year wasn't looking promising for being declared a vintage year by all the major houses.    Like, the weather was too cold or it was too hot (more common these days), or there was too much rain or not enough or a hailstorm wiped out the season.   I would be totally on board.

 

But goaltenders don't grow on vines in Douro Valley.

 

For the most part, they grow in Russia.

 

And they are breaking records right now, and scouts are ignoring it like they did in 2012 (Vasilevskiy), and many other years.    But ignoring it more than they ever did.    And I get it, but, gsus.   throw the dice once in a while lol.   That debate will end the moment Michkov steps on the ice which could be Really soon.

[conundrumed]

45 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

scouts are ignoring it like they did in 2012 (Vasilevskiy

Vas was a first rder. Nobody, but nobody, missed his stellar draft season. He went around where most of the heads had him ranked.

Don't forget how 17yos get hyped through the roof every year, so it's easy to do a redraft, but not so easy in the present.

I mean, sure we could have taken him, but Feaster and Weisbrod got starry eyed for a sizeable skilled C that realistically, competitively speaking, might as well have been playing for the Calgary Buffaloes.

Letourneau's getting the same glamour this year. That level of hockey is essentially Midget AAA, although categorized U18. Maybe the comp there would be the AJ or BCHL, but likely a step down.

Dangerous place to get caught up in with a 1st rder.

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Vas was a first rder. Nobody, but nobody, missed his stellar draft season. He went around where most of the heads had him ranked.

Don't forget how 17yos get hyped through the roof every year, so it's easy to do a redraft, but not so easy in the present.

I mean, sure we could have taken him, but Feaster and Weisbrod got starry eyed for a sizeable skilled C that realistically, competitively speaking, might as well have been playing for the Calgary Buffaloes.

Letourneau's getting the same glamour this year. That level of hockey is essentially Midget AAA, although categorized U18. Maybe the comp there would be the AJ or BCHL, but likely a step down.

Dangerous place to get caught up in with a 1st rder.

 

Agreed.   

 

In the sense that...nobody missed him but us 😅

 

I'm not suggesting we use either of our first rounder picks on goalies this year.   Quite the opposite,  I would lose my mind if we did.

 

In later rounds though, that's a very different story.

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Agreed.   

 

In the sense that...nobody missed him but us 😅

 

I'm not suggesting we use either of our first rounder picks on goalies this year.   Quite the opposite,  I would lose my mind if we did.

 

In later rounds though, that's a very different story.

 

18 passed on him.  That #1 overall in nowhere to be found yet Janko played in the playoff this year.

4 overall played 37 games.

Funny how the draft results look different a decade later.

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

18 passed on him.  That #1 overall in nowhere to be found yet Janko played in the playoff this year.

4 overall played 37 games.

Funny how the draft results look different a decade later.

 

I can show you suggestions I made 10 years ago where you gave me the same "simmer down" responses and they turned out quite well indeed.   I mean....I can't show you Here because everything gets deleted lol.

 

Sometimes it feels a bit like herding cats.

 

I'm like "holy cow, look at these amazing 2024 draft elligible goalies that I will post about in the 2024 draft thread, since they seem to be overlooked"

 

 

All of a sudden we're arguing about Jankowski, who I did not bring up, and how dare any of us see that as anything but a spectacular decision even though it was universally seen as terrible the very second it was announced.   

 

Gsus guys just check out the Russian goalies already.   

[conundrumed]

52 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Jankowski, who I did not bring up,

Let's stick to the context in which I brought him up, regarding Vasilevsky, rather than, you know, get triggered.

Conversation is just seeds for everyone to water. It isn't a debate about right or wrong. That's just trying to flex. Nobody digs that.

Omg, gardening is taking over my lame analogies.

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Let's stick to the context in which I brought him up, regarding Vasilevsky, rather than, you know, get triggered.

Conversation is just seeds for everyone to water. It isn't a debate about right or wrong. That's just trying to flex. Nobody digs that.

Omg, gardening is taking over my lame analogies.

 

Yes but Vasilevsky was on topic  lol

 

We're fine.    but I'm kind of getting patronised from all sides here for bringing up Russian goalie prospects in the 2024 draft, and....  yeah.  There's better things to go after me for.  We should be looking into this.

[cross16]

In the last 4 drafts the Flames have taken 2, and could argue 3, Russian goalies. 

 

May not be picking who you want but "ignoring" it is just wrong. 

 

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yes but Vasilevsky was on topic  lol

 

We're fine.    but I'm kind of getting patronised from all sides here for bringing up Russian goalie prospects in the 2024 draft, and....  yeah.  There's better things to go after me for.  We should be looking into this.

You know as well as anyone that the political climate doesn't favour heavy Russian scouting, though. So when you have little to work with, it's a struggle. You'd almost coin Russian scouts as, "operatives" these days. Everyone is reticent, and I'm certain that you recognize why the consternation exists.

[conundrumed]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

In the last 4 drafts the Flames have taken 2, and could argue 3, Russian goalies. 

 

May not be picking who you want but "ignoring" it is just wrong. 

 

I'd so love for Sergeev to work out. I think it's crazy that you'd track a Russian goalie in the NAHL in Northern Louisiana. The scouting veins run deep.

[jjgallow]

8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

In the last 4 drafts the Flames have taken 2, and could argue 3, Russian goalies. 

 

May not be picking who you want but "ignoring" it is just wrong. 

 

 

which would be a really good point if we were talking about the last two drafts or if I had criticised the Flames for it in my post or recently.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

which would be a really good point if we were talking about the last two drafts or if I had criticised the Flames for it in my post or recently.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I would agree with you if we were talking about, like, Port.   and this year wasn't looking promising for being declared a vintage year by all the major houses.    Like, the weather was too cold or it was too hot (more common these days), or there was too much rain or not enough or a hailstorm wiped out the season.   I would be totally on board.

 

But goaltenders don't grow on vines in Douro Valley.

 

For the most part, they grow in Russia.

 

And they are breaking records right now, and scouts are ignoring it like they did in 2012 (Vasilevskiy), and many other years.    But ignoring it more than they ever did.    And I get it, but, gsus.   throw the dice once in a while lol.   That debate will end the moment Michkov steps on the ice which could be Really soon.

 

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

 

 

 

what you quoted was me making an obvious and hard-to-argue with comment about a state of hockey and the world right now. 

 

Your reply with regards to the Flames drafting last two years was nowhere near that.    We can talk about that if you want but it's a totally different convo.

[jjgallow]

24 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

You'd almost coin Russian scouts as, "operatives" these days. 

 

This is true, but imho it is something to leverage and take advantage of.  guys are going multiple rounds later than they should.  sometimes, not at all.

 

does the nhl have inside info on how long the war will last?  unlikely.

 

when in doubt, follow the money.   The guys who can earn significantly more in the nhl,  will find their way here (Michkov), and their former teams will suddenly have a good revenue year.   No, I can't back that statement up, but it'll happen anyway.     And it won't be in the media.

 

Guys who are sub-par, average, etc....those are the ones who may stay home.   Like we saw yesterday with whats-his-name signing a 2-year.    

 

so how much is changed?     Do cars still get filled up with Russian gas?  yeah they do.    Without turning this into another kind of thread, I think people would be wise to just draft the best players.   Not assume Russian scouts are operatives (and I agree that's happening).

[jjgallow]

19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'd so love for Sergeev to work out. I think it's crazy that you'd track a Russian goalie in the NAHL in Northern Louisiana. The scouting veins run deep.

 

I think Sergeev has a chance.   the other ones of recent, it was weird.  for a stats guy it was weird.  We picked guys who were like 12 spots down on the save percentage list, and rankings.   I was glad to see us drafting out of Russia.  But, also confused.   2 years later...their rankings have not changed and I'm still confused.   but there's talent to be had for sure.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Guys who are sub-par, average, etc....those are the ones who may stay home.   Like we saw yesterday with whats-his-name signing a 2-year. 

If we qualify him, maybe we're not letting a 5th slide.

His name is Nikita Okhotiuk. It's not that hard. Oh-kot-eeuk.

This is the jumping to conclusions we do.

Maybe he has deep concerns at home, who knows? Let's not jump on the first bandwagon that races past us. He did it for his reasons and the Flames are as classy as usual and respect that, and keep the lines of communication open.

It's really easy to scowl at managing when you're not the guy doing it. It pervades more than hockey.

 

[jjgallow]

20 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

If we qualify him, maybe we're not letting a 5th slide.

His name is Nikita Okhotiuk. It's not that hard. Oh-kot-eeuk.

This is the jumping to conclusions we do.

Maybe he has deep concerns at home, who knows? Let's not jump on the first bandwagon that races past us. He did it for his reasons and the Flames are as classy as usual and respect that, and keep the lines of communication open.

It's really easy to scowl at managing when you're not the guy doing it. It pervades more than hockey.

 

 

OMG dude.

 

If you're going to do a big song and dance about how to pronounce a Russian's name, take 3 seconds to learn how to pronounce it rather than calling up Eric Francis and getting his hot take.

 

It's oh-HOHT-ch'yook, the first k is silent, and he had to change it once because of various "hockey pros" butchering it.

 

You can park your bandwagon in your garden, I wasn't saying anything for or against the Flames, just that he's an average player at best who will now be playing hockey for more money.    Yes there's a 5th involved, no...nobody really cares that much, not even me, and normally I'd be the first.

 

@cross16same goes for you too, you liked his post and cheerleaded him on without knowing how to pronounce it either.

 

 

My original point guys...was that there's some really good Russian goalies in this draft.  Not 1st rounders, but beyond that, yeah.    And I never said anything about our local hockey pros not being educated in them.  But if that's what you've chosen to argue against, you're kind of....having the opposite effect.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I can show you suggestions I made 10 years ago where you gave me the same "simmer down" responses and they turned out quite well indeed.   I mean....I can't show you Here because everything gets deleted lol.

 

Sometimes it feels a bit like herding cats.

 

I'm like "holy cow, look at these amazing 2024 draft elligible goalies that I will post about in the 2024 draft thread, since they seem to be overlooked"

 

 

All of a sudden we're arguing about Jankowski, who I did not bring up, and how dare any of us see that as anything but a spectacular decision even though it was universally seen as terrible the very second it was announced.   

 

Gsus guys just check out the Russian goalies already.   

 

If things were ever that obvious as they are after the fact, we wouldn't need to have discussion.

Are we not talking about drafting?  Goalies talked about, passing on a certain Russian goalie, overrated picks to compare to.  It's all in scope.

 

BTW, if you can show me, how is it you can't show me?  Do you remember me specifically saying something?  Pretty random memory, must have the synapses firing today.  I'm not gonna claim to remember every opinion I had.  As a mod, I have to sometimes use two different parts of the brain.  One for my fan opinion, one to keep the peace.  They conflict at times.....

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

This was supposed to be a fun post.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

@cross16same goes for you too, you liked his post and cheerleaded him on without knowing how to pronounce it either.

 

 

My original point guys...was that there's some really good Russian goalies in this draft.  Not 1st rounders, but beyond that, yeah.    And I never said anything about our local hockey pros not being educated in them.  But if that's what you've chosen to argue against, you're kind of....having the opposite effect.

 

And you know this how?

 

That's the part I agreed on him with, there is a lot of jumping to conclusions in this thread. You jumped to conclusions, can't up with a bunch of them that don't make sense and when you get challenged on them you start in on us personally.  Par for the course. 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

OMG dude.

 

If you're going to do a big song and dance about how to pronounce a Russian's name, take 3 seconds to learn how to pronounce it rather than calling up Eric Francis and getting his hot take.

 

It's oh-HOHT-ch'yook, the first k is silent, and he had to change it once because of various "hockey pros" butchering it.

 

You can park your bandwagon in your garden, I wasn't saying anything for or against the Flames, just that he's an average player at best who will now be playing hockey for more money.    Yes there's a 5th involved, no...nobody really cares that much, not even me, and normally I'd be the first.

 

@cross16same goes for you too, you liked his post and cheerleaded him on without knowing how to pronounce it either.

 

 

My original point guys...was that there's some really good Russian goalies in this draft.  Not 1st rounders, but beyond that, yeah.    And I never said anything about our local hockey pros not being educated in them.  But if that's what you've chosen to argue against, you're kind of....having the opposite effect.

I knew I could walk you into that.

Dude, put the bottle down.

Hook, line and sinker. lol

I knew you’d bite. So it isn’t what’s his name?

[The_People1]

Thoughts?  Usually Craig and Tod Button are close.  Based on this list, the Flames would almost certainly draft Helenius, even if Dickinson, Buium, or Silayev are still on the board at 9.  Because in all likelihood, Helenius will be there at 9 also.

 

 

[robrob74]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Thoughts?  Usually Craig and Tod Button are close.  Based on this list, the Flames would almost certainly draft Helenius, even if Dickinson, Buium, or Silayev are still on the board at 9.  Because in all likelihood, Helenius will be there at 9 also.

 

 

 

 

But Craig has Helenius gone by then. Would Windstorm be a better pick over Eisermen? Is there anyone in his Top`10 that wasn't there before, and who dropped?

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

But Craig has Helenius gone by then. Would Windstorm be a better pick over Eisermen? Is there anyone in his Top`10 that wasn't there before, and who dropped?

 

That's exactly it.  Helenius is absolutely not gone by then.  That's just his list.  Who in their right mind has Helenius 3oa?  And so, if that's also Tod Button's list, then we going to take Helenius over Dickinson, Buium, Silayev, etc.