2023/24 Roster/Lines

[cross16]

5.8 for Mang is hardly an anchor. Not a steal of course and for sure you want more, but it isn't an anchor. 

 

Only 1 more year left on it also

[Thebrewcrew]

There was talk of a 5 or 6 year term for Mang.

 

The Flames and BT did well to limit it to three years.

[robrob74]

I don't think Mangiapane's contract super terrible, but at the same  I think it's about a million or so over and we are paying for a career year tax. Maybe trading him while scoring all those goals might be a good route, although, can't trade everyone on those though. But for me he's not a guy I bet on. I get he has done so much to get where he was, but I always saw him as a guy who can't stay on his feet and so when it matters most he isn't a guy to go with. 
 

I also think it's not good to be overpaying guys by 500k or more. Through the season that total adds up in cap space. Also can be a difference between signing some players. and if we have a bunch of guys that much over paid then that's 1.5 to 2M in cap space being used up. 
 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don't think Mangiapane's contract super terrible, but at the same  I think it's about a million or so over and we are paying for a career year tax. Maybe trading him while scoring all those goals might be a good route, although, can't trade everyone on those though. But for me he's not a guy I bet on. I get he has done so much to get where he was, but I always saw him as a guy who can't stay on his feet and so when it matters most he isn't a guy to go with. 
 

I also think it's not good to be overpaying guys by 500k or more. Through the season that total adds up in cap space. Also can be a difference between signing some players. and if we have a bunch of guys that much over paid then that's 1.5 to 2M in cap space being used up. 
 

 

I think there is no set salary for players.  We may look and think a guys is overpaid by X, but really if he earns it, what is the issue?  I have an issue with a guy making that much and playing like a 2M player.  You ain't scoring, well you better be hitting or PK or 2 way or doing everything else. 

[robrob74]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think there is no set salary for players.  We may look and think a guys is overpaid by X, but really if he earns it, what is the issue?  I have an issue with a guy making that much and playing like a 2M player.  You ain't scoring, well you better be hitting or PK or 2 way or doing everything else. 

is he and has he been doing enough to earn the salary?

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, robrob74 said:

is he and has he been doing enough to earn the salary?

This year, not so much.  I saw better last year.  I think the issue for me is that he can't handle top line play.  Could be as much Lindholm as him.  He's dangerous as a 2nd attack wave or on the rush, but only if the others are on the same rush.  When he does the curl back, he loses it.  Too much the same as what Huberdeau does.  Coleman and Backlund are N/S mostly, so they are better with a player that excels on the rush.

 

Not that I think it would work, but I would like to see Rosie with Huberdeau and Sharky.

That would be interesting, since both players can shoot in traffic.

 

[robrob74]

57 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

This year, not so much.  I saw better last year.  I think the issue for me is that he can't handle top line play.  Could be as much Lindholm as him.  He's dangerous as a 2nd attack wave or on the rush, but only if the others are on the same rush.  When he does the curl back, he loses it.  Too much the same as what Huberdeau does.  Coleman and Backlund are N/S mostly, so they are better with a player that excels on the rush.

 

Not that I think it would work, but I would like to see Rosie with Huberdeau and Sharky.

That would be interesting, since both players can shoot in traffic.

 

It's a good post. 
 

ya, maybe good to put him back with Backs. 
 

i kind of wish coaches would use lines differently. Huberdeau has certain strengths, Mangiapane has different strengths, Dube, and all others etc... Throw out the play book, create different systems that works for different lines. That would be real coaching! 
 

Have Hubie line playing the style he is good at. Have backs playing their style, and Lindy etc.... but just saying, maybe different styles can work? I get that would be too difficult...

[robrob74]

Just read an article on Zary entering the Calder race. Gotta hand it to him and how he has helped the team. Since he was added to the big team, Kadri has had 24 points in his last 27 games, as per the article, and only 2points in his first 9.... that's big!

[sak22]

 

 

[medatswhoP]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

 

 

Excellent news to hear , hoping for the best here.

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/oliver-kylington-assigned-to-wranglers

Statement from Oliver Kylington
I feel I’m in a good place with my mental health and ready to take another step forward. Returning to Calgary has been the right decision. I've felt tremendous commitment from Flames ownership, management, and my teammates, and I am appreciative of the support and resources made available to me. I also thank my family, friends, and the fans for their encouragement. I’m looking forward to getting on the ice in a team environment and back to my everyday life. I have missed it very much

[robrob74]

So, has Dube played that poorly all year that he was put on the 4th line, or is he just there because no one else fits there? Or is it that no one else fits there and he doesn't fit anywhere else in the lineup? 
 

They place him in and out of the lines and expect spaghetti to stick on the wall. But I guess getting 10.5 going is more important than getting Dubes going.

 

just asking....

 

there is a lot going on. I just don't think you can have a Mangiapane and a Dube in the lineup. 
 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Sharingovich 

Zary, Kadri, Dube

Mangiapane, Backlund,Coleman

Greer, Ruzicka, Pospisil 

 

I dunno why I'd move Dube up the line. I would like to see how Ruzicka would work with Zary and Kadri as well. Maybe he'd do well with Lindholm and Huberdeau. I'd also like to try Zary at C or Sharingovich with Kadri and Zary.

 

a lot. 
 

id like some tradesing to get going here.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

So, has Dube played that poorly all year

Yes. He was never meant to be on the 4th line. He's playing himself out of the NHL. Pospisil became an instant upgrade over him should speak volumes.

Mangiapane away from Backlund and Coleman is like taking his soother away so he sucks at everything else.

Remove Zary and Pospisil and that's how we started the year. Dube's been a devastating disappointment and Mangiapane has completely handcuffed our ability to change our lines.

So...we acquire Sharangovich because we want to be uptempo...great. All that accomplished was waiting 20 games for him to slow his pace down to fit on this roster. Don't have a PP quarterback, apparently can't watch almost every other team in the league moving the puck quickly on the PP with great effectiveness.

In preseason, Sharky was one touch passing everything on the PP. Undoubtedly because that's how NJ does it. Can't do that with Calgary, nobody is capable of that.

Don't even get me started on this zone defence that plays too deep, almost zero gap control, and leads to an innate ability to turn pucks over at their own blueline. No one seems to be quite sure who they're supposed to be covering....still.

[Otown72]

I wonder if something outside of hockey is affecting Dube. 🤷

 

Doesn't make sense, the most fit player again in camp.

 

Here he is on pace for about 8 goals down from two seasons of 18 goals each. He had 45 pts last year!

 

You can see it in his play this year, just seems off. Confidence is lost. I hope he finds it again, he has the tools to be an effective bottom-six guy.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Yes. He was never meant to be on the 4th line. He's playing himself out of the NHL. Pospisil became an instant upgrade over him should speak volumes.

Mangiapane away from Backlund and Coleman is like taking his soother away so he sucks at everything else.

Remove Zary and Pospisil and that's how we started the year. Dube's been a devastating disappointment and Mangiapane has completely handcuffed our ability to change our lines.

So...we acquire Sharangovich because we want to be uptempo...great. All that accomplished was waiting 20 games for him to slow his pace down to fit on this roster. Don't have a PP quarterback, apparently can't watch almost every other team in the league moving the puck quickly on the PP with great effectiveness.

In preseason, Sharky was one touch passing everything on the PP. Undoubtedly because that's how NJ does it. Can't do that with Calgary, nobody is capable of that.

Don't even get me started on this zone defence that plays too deep, almost zero gap control, and leads to an innate ability to turn pucks over at their own blueline. No one seems to be quite sure who they're supposed to be covering....still.

I wonder about the mentality coming in. He was an untouchable until now. How many "prospects" were banging down the doors?

 

Maybe this whole, prospects are going to get a chance thing has a rippling effect; no more country club, your job is not safe and we will replace you within...

[sak22]

 

Kevin Rooney also on waivers

[cross16]

Be exciting to see him back, albeit I imagine it will still be a little ways out. 

 

Ronney likely to get buried once he clears. 

[zima]

6 hours ago, Otown72 said:

I wonder if something outside of hockey is affecting Dube. 🤷

 

Doesn't make sense, the most fit player again in camp.

 

Here he is on pace for about 8 goals down from two seasons of 18 goals each. He had 45 pts last year!

 

You can see it in his play this year, just seems off. Confidence is lost. I hope he finds it again, he has the tools to be an effective bottom-six guy.

Can he not be sent down to the A or will he go on wavers ? Perhaps time to sit him for awhile and put pelts in his place?

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, robrob74 said:

So, has Dube played that poorly all year that he was put on the 4th line, or is he just there because no one else fits there? Or is it that no one else fits there and he doesn't fit anywhere else in the lineup? 
 

They place him in and out of the lines and expect spaghetti to stick on the wall. But I guess getting 10.5 going is more important than getting Dubes going.

 

just asking....

 

there is a lot going on. I just don't think you can have a Mangiapane and a Dube in the lineup. 
 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Sharingovich 

Zary, Kadri, Dube

Mangiapane, Backlund,Coleman

Greer, Ruzicka, Pospisil 

 

I dunno why I'd move Dube up the line. I would like to see how Ruzicka would work with Zary and Kadri as well. Maybe he'd do well with Lindholm and Huberdeau. I'd also like to try Zary at C or Sharingovich with Kadri and Zary.

 

a lot. 
 

id like some tradesing to get going here.

 

I can count Dube's good games on one hand.

He played himself to the 4th line, not the other way around.

He's trusted when he does little to have earned it and then does nothing with the ice.

As a C, he wins faceoffs, but you would never know.

 

I think what they should try is Ruzicka with either Coronato or Pelletier.

For now, sit Dube and play Coronato 4th line.

When Pelletier is back, you have options.

Would prefer not to throw him into the fire.

RW on Ruzie's line with Greer on LW.

We need him to be usable on either wing.

 

Even though some suggest Dube is worth less than a 2nd, he's not earning a spot next year.

He fits worse than Bennett did under Wardo/Sutter.

No point in keeping him.

[zima]

I hope they have sat him down and told him if he wishes to leave here just tell them and play your heart out we will find a partner willing to do something with us.

[travel_dude]

It would seem that the coach has decided to sit Dube and Oesterle.

Kuz recalled, so he may make his debut in Calgary.

Kylington and Pelletier both still on LTIR but gearing up for return.

We don't have the cap to activate both.

Some trade is needed.

 

EDIT - the last two statements aren't accurate.

Kylington is currently included in the cap.

Pelletier is not, since he is assigned to AHL.

[travel_dude]

#Flames projected tonight vs. Ottawa:

 

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Sharangovich

Zary-Kadri-Pospisil

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

Greer-Ruzicka-Duehr  

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Weegar-Andersson

Kuznetsov-DeSimone

 

Markstrom

[travel_dude]

Dube and Oesterle in

Kuz and Duehr out.

After a win.

 

It's a dads trip so I get it.

Optics more important than performance.

Saying that, Diehr wasn't exactly a standout.

Kuz, I thought, had a good game with one shift caught out for a goal against.

Two shots on net in his first shift.

 

[420since1974]

In a very limited viewing (11:58), I think that Kuznetsov had a pretty decent game.

2 shots on net while being defensively responsible.

I'm not going to knock him for a goal that was banked in off of his shin pad.

He's only 21; with a few more seasons under his belt, I feel that his size, skating, and hockey IQ will enable him to become a reliable "stay at home/shutdown" NHL defenseman.

Ceiling = 2nd pairing.

Floor = 7th D.

[Thebrewcrew]

This is more big picture than 23/24.

 

With Lindholm likely moving on, I wonder if the Flames will shift Zary to C, the position he was drafted as.

 

I'm not sure it happens this year, but maybe something they plan for heading into the summer.

 

Backlund/Kadri/Zary down the middle isn't elite, but should be competent. If Zary could play the middle like he has as a winger, there could be something real interesting.

[robrob74]

38 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

This is more big picture than 23/24.

 

With Lindholm likely moving on, I wonder if the Flames will shift Zary to C, the position he was drafted as.

 

I'm not sure it happens this year, but maybe something they plan for heading into the summer.

 

Backlund/Kadri/Zary down the middle isn't elite, but should be competent. If Zary could play the middle like he has as a winger, there could be something real interesting.

I don't like the idea of playing Zary with players who can't play, we did that to Bennett and then wondered why he was what he was. I get some players are supposed to make others better, Backlund did it with Bouma, does it with Mangiapane who got a big pay day off it too.
 

But is Zary ready to be that guy? 
 

I really think this organization has to rethink where the kids play in the lineup and with whom. If you're put with 4th line plugs you'll get 4th line plug numbers.